Elephant in the room

@Consultant posted:

Baseball Questions for - baseballhs -  terrible BP thrower - Old School - fishnsail

1. Who is your favorite player?  Why?

2. When you played College baseball were you a pitcher or hitter?

3. Did your son attend  the Area Code tryouts?  Where? Did we meet?

Bob

1. Rickey Henderson. Loved watching him mess with pitchers and steal bases. 

2. Not good enough to play in college

3. No, he’s a 2023. Maybe one day he’ll be at the level to be considered for Area Code, but right now he needs to add some muscle. 

@Iowamom23 posted:

I'm finding it interesting that son is playing in the Northwoods league — so far we've heard of one case in a team not in his pod. The games we've been to seem to be pretty socially distanced, lots of people wearing masks. Similar to a group of college kids pulled together and playing at our minor league stadium. They've been going about three weeks and I don't think any cases.

However, saw an article today that 57 of our high school baseball and softball teams have been shut down due to cases. Not sure if high schools are being more careful to shut down on a dime, or if the numbers reflect the fact that few people at those games are maintaining any social distance or wearing masks.

Northwoods league is for profit, right?  A business, not run by the government. 

@Consultant posted:

Baseball Questions for - baseballhs -  terrible BP thrower - Old School - fishnsail

1. Who is your favorite player?  Why?

2. When you played College baseball were you a pitcher or hitter?

3. Did your son attend  the Area Code tryouts?  Where? Did we meet?

Bob

1.George Brett. I lived in Kansas so the  Royals were closest team.

2. Didn't play, I’m a mom. Married a pitcher.

3. Yes, twice. Baylor  Both times I think.  No, we didn’t meet. 

@roothog66 posted:

Most people don't think about the market in the right way. If you're heavily invested, still funding and years out from retirement, you should LOVE it when the market collapses - every dollar you invest buys MORE shares. If you're planning on retiring in the next two years, though, it's an entirely different situation.

A ton of people, sophisticated or not, get shook out when the market collapses.  If you are heavily invested, years out, and have enough cash on hand to LOVE a market collapse you are in unique company.  It's a great place to be but still hard to pull the trigger.   I feel the worst for our retirees these days.  Money is worthless.  You can't earn interest on savings and yields on safer debt investments are very low. 

A couple of random thoughts:

- this is really not at all about liberty or anything else, it's about capitalism.  This is a capitalist society.  The economy works because people are persuaded to do things.  Don't just say "everyone back to normal or else you're a ___", or "I won't give up my liberty for the common welfare," persuade me why I should go back to normal.  If you can't persuade me to take certain risks, then I don't have to take them, it's a free country; we are all calibrating our risk tolerance, you do your thing, and I'll do mine.  If certain parts of the economy don't function under those circumstances, then they don't.  That's capitalism.  If I won't go into a store if people there aren't wearing masks, then it is for that store to decide whether it needs my dollars.  If you want the economy to go back to normal, you'll have to persuade larger numbers of people that they need to go back to normal.  Slowing numbers of infections will be persuasive; just yelling politics will not.

- if you are in the fortunate position of deciding what risks to take, good for you.  What if half our nurses and doctors decided that they didn't want to be taking care of people who weren't wearing masks?  Or just that they are too tired?  Perhaps we are lucky that so many are so dedicated, and/or have to work in hospitals to support their families.

- I tend to agree that colleges should charge less for online education.  The irony is that teaching online is actually a lot more work than teaching in person.  Teaching hybrid is the most work of all.  Same is true for K-12.  Many teachers at all levels are working extra hours (often unpaid) to figure this out for fall.  Colleges incur some new expenses with online teaching, but they also have fewer expenses other places.  They should be willing to break it all down, for parents.

@Consultant posted:

Baseball Questions for - baseballhs -  terrible BP thrower - Old School - fishnsail

1. Who is your favorite player?  Why?

2. When you played College baseball were you a pitcher or hitter?

3. Did your son attend  the Area Code tryouts?  Where? Did we meet?

Bob

Et Tu,  Brute?

But I will play along...

1- Johnny Bench as a kid(I was a catcher), then Don Mattingly in College(yankee fan)

   Then ARod ( I root for the media slandered) as an adult

2-Never played college baseball.   All college coaches were racist against left handed catchers..lol    (left handed catchers lives matter)

3-  my son did not attend area code tryouts.  wish he was invited

@anotherparent posted:

- I tend to agree that colleges should charge less for online education.  The irony is that teaching online is actually a lot more work than teaching in person.  Teaching hybrid is the most work of all.  Same is true for K-12.  Many teachers at all levels are working extra hours (often unpaid) to figure this out for fall.  Colleges incur some new expenses with online teaching, but they also have fewer expenses other places.  They should be willing to break it all down, for parents.

Agree, especially the last sentence.  I am pressing for this right now.  If I get a good fact based reason I am totally good paying full amounts, If I get more of "we are all in this together" or "it's still one community so we have to pay full amount" and I don't feel as good about paying.   All I want is a very well thought out reason why.  So good point AP.  

I'm trying to ask a serious question without starting a new argument but it probably won't go well.  What dictates this thing is getting better?  Myself and many of my friends, church members, and others in my circles do not believe that the tests are accurate.  I know several people who who were sent info that they tested positive who only signed in at the site but never were tested.  I have a friend who is paid to test and opened test kits and never swabbed anyone and they came back positive.  I have a guy at church who was put on a list because he was at the same event as someone who tested positive but never came in contact with them in a large setting.  he was informed he was being put on the Active list which was he was told was equivalent to being tested positive even though he has never been tested.  I just don't believe the numbers are close.

I don't believe that deaths are the end all and do not even believe that those numbers are close.  The 1% that I have seen in many places is 1% of those tested not the overall population.  I hear we have to value life from people who are adamantly abortion supporters so that holds very little value.  Life is life whether they die of Covid or abortion.  You can't be pro-Covid life and be an abortion supporter in my mind.  You can't say that you can protest but you can't go to school.  I just don't know what the answer is to this situation but I believe it goes away on November 4th if we are not in Civil War by then.  Most things right now fall politically because our politics speaks to our choices and belief systems. 

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

A ton of people, sophisticated or not, get shook out when the market collapses.  If you are heavily invested, years out, and have enough cash on hand to LOVE a market collapse you are in unique company.  It's a great place to be but still hard to pull the trigger.   I feel the worst for our retirees these days.  Money is worthless.  You can't earn interest on savings and yields on safer debt investments are very low. 

 

Mainly, here, I'm mentioning people who are invested through 401(k) plans and such that they contribute to on a monthly basis. Yeah. It used to be basically a gimme that banks paid around 5% interest on savings and a T-Bill yielded 4-5%. Of course I can remember mortgage rates in the late 70's running close to 20%.

Iowamom23 – you “define selfishness as the people who seem to see no responsibility for each of us to do our best to take care of our community by wearing masks, staying home when possible, and curtailing our activities…”

Your definition is short sighted.  People who “seem” a certain way to you?  That’s a silly way to define someone.  You “seem” leftist to me.  Is it okay for me to define you through the lens?  And look what you’re actually saying.  Your actual words.  How many people have you actually seen that you’re confident see no responsibility in this?  That’s a ridiculous superlative and wholly black and white.  Have you seen people who YOU feel don’t take enough responsibility?  Probably, and that’s your right.  But please stop with the narrative that there are significant numbers of people out there who have taken zero responsibility.  It’s nonsense.  Look back over your shoulder at the last 5 months.  We – all of us Americans – have given up a LOT to help.  Some more than others, but EVERYONE has largely shut down their lives since March.  They’ve stayed in.  Not worked.  Cut into their retirement.  Tightened their belts in a hundred ways.  Let go of lots of things that bring value and worth to their lives.  You may not realize it, but what you’re TRULY after is seeing 328 million people do exactly what YOU are doing and what YOU feel is best/right.  And those who you pull your insight from.

Take a look at those who have been “safest” and “best” throughout this and you’ll largely see people who are in better financial situations than the average American.  Those who have been “best” throughout this also happen to be able to do so most easily.  My inner circle of best friends are both highly liberal and successful attorneys who can easily work from home.  It should be of no surprise that they are absolutely amazing with mask wearing, staying in and curtailing activities.  When you can have Omaha Steaks deliver a fresh round of filets to your doorstep each week, it becomes infinitely more easy to see “responsibility.”

Yes, ALL of us have the ABILITY to come together on this.  But I can assure you, SHAMING those who aren’t like you is NOT the way to make that happen.  Start by showing some GENUINE empathy for ALL Americans and then come back and let us know how your efforts are going.  You get more bees with honey.  Hint – calling people selfish is NOT honey.

@PitchingFan posted:

I'm trying to ask a serious question without starting a new argument but it probably won't go well.  What dictates this thing is getting better?  Myself and many of my friends, church members, and others in my circles do not believe that the tests are accurate.  I know several people who who were sent info that they tested positive who only signed in at the site but never were tested.  I have a friend who is paid to test and opened test kits and never swabbed anyone and they came back positive.  I have a guy at church who was put on a list because he was at the same event as someone who tested positive but never came in contact with them in a large setting.  he was informed he was being put on the Active list which was he was told was equivalent to being tested positive even though he has never been tested.  I just don't believe the numbers are close.

I don't believe that deaths are the end all and do not even believe that those numbers are close.  The 1% that I have seen in many places is 1% of those tested not the overall population.  I hear we have to value life from people who are adamantly abortion supporters so that holds very little value.  Life is life whether they die of Covid or abortion.  You can't be pro-Covid life and be an abortion supporter in my mind.  You can't say that you can protest but you can't go to school.  I just don't know what the answer is to this situation but I believe it goes away on November 4th if we are not in Civil War by then.  Most things right now fall politically because our politics speaks to our choices and belief systems. 

and there you have it..

“If you can't persuade me to take certain risks, then I don't have to take them, it's a free country; we are all calibrating our risk tolerance, you do your thing, and I'll do mine.  If certain parts of the economy don't function under those circumstances, then they don't.  That's capitalism.”

The rub here is that you give yourself all the choice but don’t want others to be able to make the decision to take risks.  As you say, it’s a free country. If I want to take risks, I should be able to.  

@DanJ posted:

Iowamom23 – you “define selfishness as the people who seem to see no responsibility for each of us to do our best to take care of our community by wearing masks, staying home when possible, and curtailing our activities…”

Your definition is short sighted.  People who “seem” a certain way to you?  That’s a silly way to define someone.  You “seem” leftist to me.  Is it okay for me to define you through the lens?  And look what you’re actually saying.  Your actual words.  How many people have you actually seen that you’re confident see no responsibility in this?  That’s a ridiculous superlative and wholly black and white.  Have you seen people who YOU feel don’t take enough responsibility?  Probably, and that’s your right.  But please stop with the narrative that there are significant numbers of people out there who have taken zero responsibility.  It’s nonsense.  Look back over your shoulder at the last 5 months.  We – all of us Americans – have given up a LOT to help.  Some more than others, but EVERYONE has largely shut down their lives since March.  They’ve stayed in.  Not worked.  Cut into their retirement.  Tightened their belts in a hundred ways.  Let go of lots of things that bring value and worth to their lives.  You may not realize it, but what you’re TRULY after is seeing 328 million people do exactly what YOU are doing and what YOU feel is best/right.  And those who you pull your insight from.

Take a look at those who have been “safest” and “best” throughout this and you’ll largely see people who are in better financial situations than the average American.  Those who have been “best” throughout this also happen to be able to do so most easily.  My inner circle of best friends are both highly liberal and successful attorneys who can easily work from home.  It should be of no surprise that they are absolutely amazing with mask wearing, staying in and curtailing activities.  When you can have Omaha Steaks deliver a fresh round of filets to your doorstep each week, it becomes infinitely more easy to see “responsibility.”

Yes, ALL of us have the ABILITY to come together on this.  But I can assure you, SHAMING those who aren’t like you is NOT the way to make that happen.  Start by showing some GENUINE empathy for ALL Americans and then come back and let us know how your efforts are going.  You get more bees with honey.  Hint – calling people selfish is NOT honey.

Thank you 

@Iowamom23 posted:

I don't know if it's selfish to play. I think it's somewhat dangerous. And I think the few kids who have gone out to sample night life are being selfish by putting it all at risk rather than consider how lucky they are to be playing when so many others can't.

I probably am being selfish to some degree by going to games — they do a nice job with video broadcasts so we could watch from home. But the stadium is taking this seriously. Social distancing is maintained, A surprising number of fans are wearing masks. And I work from home so rarely get to see others anyway. So we go and financially support them to the extent we can. We are very grateful for what they have been able to do and regard every game we get to see as a gift, not a right.

In Iowa my friends and I made a drinking game of our governor's press conferences. Whenever she said "Iowans need to be safe and responsible" we'd make a note to have some wine at our next Zoom drinking fest. But I guess that's what it boils down to. If people are safe and responsible, wear masks, social distance, and really prioritize why and what they go out for, we don't need government to get involved. When people don't make those informed choices for themselves, then I think government has to get involved.

 

Thank you for your very personal response. I will say it again, we all have a lot in common here. We are Amercan baseball parents. I would venture to say that everyone on this site has the same goal, “Play Ball”. But each individual has a different idea of the path to that goal. That is the beauty of America. 

@DanJ posted:

Iowamom23 – you “define selfishness as the people who seem to see no responsibility for each of us to do our best to take care of our community by wearing masks, staying home when possible, and curtailing our activities…”

Your definition is short sighted.  People who “seem” a certain way to you?  That’s a silly way to define someone.  You “seem” leftist to me.  Is it okay for me to define you through the lens?  And look what you’re actually saying.  Your actual words.  How many people have you actually seen that you’re confident see no responsibility in this?  That’s a ridiculous superlative and wholly black and white.  Have you seen people who YOU feel don’t take enough responsibility?  Probably, and that’s your right.  But please stop with the narrative that there are significant numbers of people out there who have taken zero responsibility.  It’s nonsense.  Look back over your shoulder at the last 5 months.  We – all of us Americans – have given up a LOT to help.  Some more than others, but EVERYONE has largely shut down their lives since March.  They’ve stayed in.  Not worked.  Cut into their retirement.  Tightened their belts in a hundred ways.  Let go of lots of things that bring value and worth to their lives.  You may not realize it, but what you’re TRULY after is seeing 328 million people do exactly what YOU are doing and what YOU feel is best/right.  And those who you pull your insight from.

Take a look at those who have been “safest” and “best” throughout this and you’ll largely see people who are in better financial situations than the average American.  Those who have been “best” throughout this also happen to be able to do so most easily.  My inner circle of best friends are both highly liberal and successful attorneys who can easily work from home.  It should be of no surprise that they are absolutely amazing with mask wearing, staying in and curtailing activities.  When you can have Omaha Steaks deliver a fresh round of filets to your doorstep each week, it becomes infinitely more easy to see “responsibility.”

Yes, ALL of us have the ABILITY to come together on this.  But I can assure you, SHAMING those who aren’t like you is NOT the way to make that happen.  Start by showing some GENUINE empathy for ALL Americans and then come back and let us know how your efforts are going.  You get more bees with honey.  Hint – calling people selfish is NOT honey.

I'm not calling everyone selfish or doing it by someone who "seems" a certain way. I'm saying people who said specific things on this site are selfish. And yes, I'm left and I'm okay with you making that assumption based on my comments on this site. Left is a fine place to be, as is right.

I agree that it's easier for people in decent financial situations to be more cautious. So we should in turn take steps to protect those around us who aren't as fortunate. Wear a mask so you protect the clerk at the gas station, or pay at the pump. I order groceries online from my local grocery store and just open the trunk so there's no contact between me and anyone in the store. Don't pretend you can live your live entirely as you want to without putting others at risk.

There are simple steps we can all take that will help keep other people safe, regardless of our financial situation.

Some of the people on here don't seem to want to take those steps. I call that selfish.

@baseballhs posted:

“If you can't persuade me to take certain risks, then I don't have to take them, it's a free country; we are all calibrating our risk tolerance, you do your thing, and I'll do mine.  If certain parts of the economy don't function under those circumstances, then they don't.  That's capitalism.”

The rub here is that you give yourself all the choice but don’t want others to be able to make the decision to take risks.  As you say, it’s a free country. If I want to take risks, I should be able to.  

I think people can certainly take risks if they want.  If your favorite restaurant doesn't require masks, and half the people won't go as a result, and it has to shut down, then that's capitalism at work.  If they do require masks, and the non-mask-wearers won't go, then same thing.  If we don't want that kind of economic collapse, then we have to find common ground somewhere.  That's what I mean by persuasion.

I do think that the concept of "choosing" to take risks has to be extended to "choosing" to hold a job where you will be put at risk, because you need the money.  Maybe you "choose" to endanger someone who did not have the "choice" about whether to be in a room with you.   I haven't yet seen a poll that asked "if you had a choice about continuing to work at your job during this pandemic, or else you could do something else for the same salary, which would you do?"  I honestly wonder what people would say.

@baseballhs posted:

“If you can't persuade me to take certain risks, then I don't have to take them, it's a free country; we are all calibrating our risk tolerance, you do your thing, and I'll do mine.  If certain parts of the economy don't function under those circumstances, then they don't.  That's capitalism.”

The rub here is that you give yourself all the choice but don’t want others to be able to make the decision to take risks.  As you say, it’s a free country. If I want to take risks, I should be able to.  

Having said that, I also think that if an elected government on whatever level, feels that it needs to shut down bars or anything else to protect the lives and economic well-being of the people who elected it, then that is a product of our form of government.  If you don't like what a local, state, or federal government is doing, vote them out the next time.  If they get re-elected, that means a majority of people agree with them.  And that goes for both sides.  Polls right now show that a vast majority of people in the US favor mask-wearing (Fox News poll on June 19 showed 80% of Americans in favor of masks, including 68% of Republicans; see https://www.foxnews.com/politi...-masks-no-to-rallies). 

If you disagree with what elected officials are saying, and you disagree with polls, then on what basis do you argue that what you want to do should be allowed? 

@baseballhs posted:

Exactly.  And you would have on a mask.  In a public place, I would be required to have a mask too.  Outside of that, I doubt we ever would cross paths.  People with your thinking are at home ( or at a minimum only at safe places ) and I’m at restaurants and traveling, working out, and living.  We wouldn’t run in the same circles.  And since masks are so good at containing the virus, what's the concern with a stadium 50% full of masked up fans?

I saw a great line on the inconsistencies of COVID solutions ... Why is it American Airlines can fill a plane but American Airlines Arena can’t fill an arena?

@RoadRunner posted:

This is an article from France. I chose France in an effort to eliminate the “orange man factor”. It’s a calculated risk. You decide. I know how I feel, and what I’ll do based on the information that is available to us. 
https://www.france24.com/en/20...can-damage-the-brain

They studied 43 people with issues. The population of France is 67M. I’ll bet 43 people in France get hit by motor vehicles on bikes. It’s not going to stop me from riding a bike. 

Agree.  I was on 4 different planes over the past week and they were all mostly full.

@RJM posted:

I saw a great line on the inconsistencies of COVID solutions ... Why is is American Airlines can fill a plane but American Airlines Arena can’t fill an arena?

Just because they can, doesn't mean they should. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Bill Maher understands the issues. I just disagree with his politics. Ignore the couple of Trump comments. This is a great commentary ...

To the media ....Stop it with the doom, gloom and desperation! Stop pouring hot sauce on jalapeños! Start treating us like adults.

See video in article ...

https://www.newsweek.com/bill-...ope-shame-me-1498739

This doesn't have to be that complicated. Take the simple step to wear a mask when in close contact with people and wash your hands often and if everyone does that we'll have more freedom/better quality of life sooner. If we don't, we won't, and this will drag on as we're seeing it drag on now, particularly in areas that denied the reality. We're all connected in this, no matter where you live, who you vote for, what you do for a living, etc. 

In regards to airlines.  It's choice.  People are weighing the risk and buying the ticket.  But I really hope the people who think we shouldn't be doing it are ok driving everywhere if this bankrupts the industry.

@RJM posted:

Bill Maher understands the issues. I just disagree with his politics. Ignore the couple of Trump comments. This is a great commentary ...

To the media ....Stop it with the doom, gloom and desperation! Stop pouring hot sauce on jalapeños! Start treating us like adults.

See video in article ...

https://www.newsweek.com/bill-...ope-shame-me-1498739

 

The Trump comments are right on target and I've seen way too many people acting like immature children than adults. We don't have a national plan to deal with this, and that is exactly what is needed. 

@2019&21 Dad posted:

The Trump comments are right on target and I've seen way too many people acting like immature children than adults. We don't have a national plan to deal with this, and that is exactly what is needed. 

I disagree. How will a national policy have the same relevance in my small town in FL that it will in someone else's big city of pick any state. Local governments and school districts should make decisions on what is going on in their districts.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I disagree. How will a national policy have the same relevance in my small town in FL that it will in someone else's big city of pick any state. Local governments and school districts should make decisions on what is going on in their districts.

The beauty of America. This is how our government is set up. 

@baseballhs posted:

In regards to airlines.  It's choice.  People are weighing the risk and buying the ticket.  But I really hope the people who think we shouldn't be doing it are ok driving everywhere if this bankrupts the industry.

This demonstrates my point.  The flights we see are full because there are 60% fewer flights than normal.  When people see full flights, some think people "ah, people want to get back back to normal," but a majority are even less willing to buy tickets.  The airlines will make decisions based on what they think works for their business.  Some airlines are now back-tracking and leaving middle seats empty, presumably they think that will overall attract more business.

As far as national policy, a good national policy would say "here's what we have to do in big cities, here's what we have to do in small towns."  It doesn't mean there has to be the same policy for every situation.

@Iowamom23 posted:

 

"In the past week the stores stopped limiting entry to a customer to square footage ratio. The grocery store isn’t offering wipes for the cart handles. The checkout lines aren’t regulated. Same for Home Depot. There’s been outdoor dining for a month. I haven’t worn a mask except where it’s required passing the restaurant hostess station."

I posted this. Who have I endangered? Do you know what I’ve been doing when I go out on a daily basis? Do you know what I haven’t done? 

When I’m out with people I know I assume they’re not taking risks as I’m not. Other than the three twenty minute times in a grocery store or fifteen minutes in Home Depot I’ve been out on my bike twenty miles per day. Yesterday I did forty. About every third day I stop by a pizza shop on my bike trip, have a slice and chat with the owner. 

I also haven’t seen my significant other of seven years since March 9th. I can’t travel to Florida and walk in the house of her 92yo mother. 

I can’t have lunch with my 88yo uncle twice a month who I’ve always looked at as a father.

I suggest everyone telling others to stay home try staying home alone for a week. How about four months? The depression business must be real hot by now. There are a lot of people telling others what to do who aren’t living in their shoes. 

@anotherparent posted:

This demonstrates my point.  The flights we see are full because there are 60% fewer flights than normal.  When people see full flights, some think people "ah, people want to get back back to normal," but a majority are even less willing to buy tickets.  The airlines will make decisions based on what they think works for their business.  Some airlines are now back-tracking and leaving middle seats empty, presumably they think that will overall attract more business.

As far as national policy, a good national policy would say "here's what we have to do in big cities, here's what we have to do in small towns."  It doesn't mean there has to be the same policy for every situation.

As long as you are good with driving to any games your kid might play in or across the country to a tournament, or just playing local.  IF you aren't good with it, I'd suggest you relax and get on a plane.  Myself and my family have been on 12 different planes in the last month...we are all still standing.  I want real life back and I'm willing to live with the risk not only to live life but to give normal life a fighting chance to return.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I disagree. How will a national policy have the same relevance in my small town in FL that it will in someone else's big city of pick any state. Local governments and school districts should make decisions on what is going on in their districts.

Problem is viruses don't recognize local boundaries. In March on here we were talking about how NY is different than rural areas like Arizona and Texas and Florida. Not so different now. Never was. It's just a matter of time.

TOTALLY different.  I'm in Texas.  Our hospital has still got people on part time hours.  IF it was really as bad as it was portrayed at the NY hospitals, we are not even close.  There have been multiple hospital administrators in TX who have come out and said that the hospital situation has been twisted by the media.

@baseballhs posted:

As long as you are good with driving to any games your kid might play in or across the country to a tournament, or just playing local.  IF you aren't good with it, I'd suggest you relax and get on a plane.  Myself and my family have been on 12 different planes in the last month...we are all still standing.  I want real life back and I'm willing to live with the risk not only to live life but to give normal life a fighting chance to return.

The national policy is "ignore it and it'll go away", and "don't test and the numbers won't look bad". 

"I'm pleased and happy to repeat the news that we have, in fact, caught and killed a large predator that supposedly injured some bathers. But, as you see, it's a beautiful day, the beaches are open and people are having a wonderful time. Amity, as you know, means "friendship"." - Mayor Larry Vaughn

@Iowamom23 posted:

I'm finding it interesting that son is playing in the Northwoods league — so far we've heard of one case in a team not in his pod. The games we've been to seem to be pretty socially distanced, lots of people wearing masks. Similar to a group of college kids pulled together and playing at our minor league stadium. They've been going about three weeks and I don't think any cases.

However, saw an article today that 57 of our high school baseball and softball teams have been shut down due to cases. Not sure if high schools are being more careful to shut down on a dime, or if the numbers reflect the fact that few people at those games are maintaining any social distance or wearing masks.

How could you possibly allow your son to place others at risk by allowing him to play baseball? He’s placing everyone on his team at risk. I only interact with a hostess and a waiter in a restaurant.

The hypocrisy is what I take issue with.  Those that tout the "experts" or "the science" blindly is like following the doctors who said smoking was not dangerous to your health while being paid by the American Tobacco Association.  They are biased and with an agenda.  We are facing a pandemic and very trying times in our country, yet we can't have an honest and open discussion without political bias.  The new spike in cases was because the economy opened too soon but had nothing to do with mass gatherings.  really?  I have seen posts and non stop articles about the present administration's "atrocious mismanagement" of the virus yet I haven't seen complaints about the $600/week checks being cashed or the PPP received... or one viable alternative put forth in realtime, just bashing.. or mention of a certain Dem governor whose decision resulted in more deaths than FL, TX, CA, and GA combined.  Are our numbers really brutal?  it depends on how look at it.  absolute numbers?  death rate? We are supposed to follow the science... but what science are we to follow?  The one that said we will have a million deaths?  The one that told us that we don't need to wear masks (WHO and Fauci in April)?  The one that said virus live on surfaces for 10 days or the one that said  can't be transmitted from surfaces (CDC)?  The one that said asymptomatic patients can't spread the virus (WHO)?   The one that said vaccine candidates are working or the reports that antibodies may only last a few months?  The doctor buddy who says this is overstated and the ICU's are empty or the one that tells a story about a healthy person who had a bad outcome?  Are we to trust the published Covid numbers when it seems certain that the deaths are over counted because of the financial benefits the hospitals receive from a CV death?  Or the spike in cases following increased testing?  I am tired of grossly exaggerated media stories and biased "science."  What I do know is that we were told that we need to shelter in place to curve the virus and then, when that happened, the narrative changed.  Now it's shelter in place until a vaccine? or until the election?  There were going to be tradeoffs no matter what in this situation.  I agree that there are complications with CV beyond just deaths but I also believe there are complications from closing schools and online learning, especially in low income areas.  There are complications from lost jobs and income.  If you own a business and want the economy to open back up, I understand and respect that.  Likewise, if you are in a high risk category and want everyone to stay home and shelter in place to help protect you.. I understand why you feel that way.  I respect that as well.  But using faulty "science" to push a political agenda I do not respect.  

@RJM posted:

I posted this. Who have I endangered? Do you know what I’ve been doing when I go out on a daily basis? Do you know what I haven’t done? 

When I’m out with people I know I assume they’re not taking risks as I’m not. Other than the three twenty minute times in a grocery store or fifteen minutes in Home Depot I’ve been out on my bike twenty miles per day. Yesterday I did forty. About every third day I stop by a pizza shop on my bike trip, have a slice and chat with the owner. 

I also haven’t seen my significant other of seven years since March 9th. I can’t travel to Florida and walk in the house of her 92yo mother. 

I can’t have lunch with my 88yo uncle twice a month who I’ve always looked at as a father.

I suggest everyone telling others to stay home try staying home alone for a week. How about four months? The depression business must be real hot by now. There are a lot of people telling others what to do who aren’t living in their shoes. 

I assume you're pro abortion then right? Don't tell people what to do with their bodies with life and death on the line.

@infielddad posted:

When you sit on the far right, everything is going to appear left. Too bad for sure that folks put a "political" label to try and stay away from facts.

All of this "me, me" "my rights" and "left" stuff would never be tolerated in a well run baseball team at the HS or college level. Every player gives up me for I. I wonder how many of those expressing "distaste" by classifying those facts and opinions they do not like as left also wear a shirt saying there is no "I' in "team?"

Our son-in-law is a doctor who works in a hospital. He has to be incredibly careful and aware to protect our daughter and grandchildren. Of course he also needs to protect himself, his mother and friends.  His family is unable to plan anything beyond a few days any time there is a spike, like there is now. So those who cavalierly talk about "me" and "my" and living "my life" seem to be completely unaware or uncaring that every spike has a medical consequence which causes a large population of medical providers, among others (employers too) to need to reassess and readjust.

Apple, among other businesses,  had to re-close a number of stores.  The "my life" attitude contributed to the  impact on every employee who worked in those stores.

Being a doctor in a hospital is a situation beyond what most people are experiencing during COVID. A cousin is a doctor of immunology in the NYC area. I find his view of the situation to be extreme compared to everyday life. Back in March he signed a petition that the country be shut down completely for three months. 

But he’s knee deep in it every day fearing his asthma could be come a major problem. And his wife, also a doctor had to spend a night hospitalized for observation with COVID. 

@2019&21 Dad posted:

Problem is viruses don't recognize local boundaries. In March on here we were talking about how NY is different than rural areas like Arizona and Texas and Florida. Not so different now. Never was. It's just a matter of time.

You are 100% correct. I forgot how rural Miami is. 

You can't use the same strategy for the same state, much less the entire country. Two counties in FL represent almost half the entire cases. So the entire state should follow the same restrictions? And yes, even with the spike in cases, NY is WAY different than FL. FL used a sensible approach that has resulted in FAR fewer deaths than NY or other metro areas. 

What's next in your flip chart of Covid strategies? We've burned through; flatten the curve, wait two more weeks, a vaccine is just months away, wear a mask, and now we need a national policy. 

@adbono posted:

I don’t sit on the far right so you are off base on that presumption. 

The left believes they’re the center and anything to their right is extremism. The left believes there isn’t bias in the mainstream media because the media reinforces what they believe on a daily basis. The believe the mainstream media is the unbiased center. 

@GloFisher posted:

The hypocrisy is what I take issue with.  Those that tout the "experts" or "the science" blindly is like following the doctors who said smoking was not dangerous to your health while being paid by the American Tobacco Association.  They are biased and with an agenda.  We are facing a pandemic and very trying times in our country, yet we can't have an honest and open discussion without political bias.  The new spike in cases was because the economy opened too soon but had nothing to do with mass gatherings.  really?  I have seen posts and non stop articles about the present administration's "atrocious mismanagement" of the virus yet I haven't seen complaints about the $600/week checks being cashed or the PPP received... or one viable alternative put forth in realtime, just bashing.. or mention of a certain Dem governor whose decision resulted in more deaths than FL, TX, CA, and GA combined.  Are our numbers really brutal?  it depends on how look at it.  absolute numbers?  death rate? We are supposed to follow the science... but what science are we to follow?  The one that said we will have a million deaths?  The one that told us that we don't need to wear masks (WHO and Fauci in April)?  The one that said virus live on surfaces for 10 days or the one that said  can't be transmitted from surfaces (CDC)?  The one that said asymptomatic patients can't spread the virus (WHO)?   The one that said vaccine candidates are working or the reports that antibodies may only last a few months?  The doctor buddy who says this is overstated and the ICU's are empty or the one that tells a story about a healthy person who had a bad outcome?  Are we to trust the published Covid numbers when it seems certain that the deaths are over counted because of the financial benefits the hospitals receive from a CV death?  Or the spike in cases following increased testing?  I am tired of grossly exaggerated media stories and biased "science."  What I do know is that we were told that we need to shelter in place to curve the virus and then, when that happened, the narrative changed.  Now it's shelter in place until a vaccine? or until the election?  There were going to be tradeoffs no matter what in this situation.  I agree that there are complications with CV beyond just deaths but I also believe there are complications from closing schools and online learning, especially in low income areas.  There are complications from lost jobs and income.  If you own a business and want the economy to open back up, I understand and respect that.  Likewise, if you are in a high risk category and want everyone to stay home and shelter in place to help protect you.. I understand why you feel that way.  I respect that as well.  But using faulty "science" to push a political agenda I do not respect.  

Shelter in place to slow the curve was also so that we could put universal testing plans in place to be able to mitigate and control spread once reopened. But we didn't have a plan for that - in fact it was discouraged because the spike in cases demonstrated by testing would look bad politically. Ironically, if we did have a good testing program (per capita) we would be able to get back to a semblance of normalcy if we also took the simple steps of wearing masks and washing frequently. But as a society too many are too lazy, selfish and arrogant (won't happen to me) to do that. So that's why we are stuck looking for a treatment or vaccine in order to have some semblance of normalcy. Other countries have done it successfully, it didn't have to be this way here. 

Personally, I still go out and enjoy life, I just do it away from others and wear a mask when in close contact. I also generally try to stay away from arguments where people already have made up their minds. But every now and then, I just can't leave the junk out there.