@Iowamom23 posted:It’s a link to the unions official position. Are you unable to access it? I can copy and paste it if the link isn’t working? Although I’d probably pm it. It’s like 16 pages long.
I'm not going to play games. Believe what you want. Look at their official position, but ignore your tweets and their comments. I thought your were a journalist.
@Smitty28 posted:I'm not going to play games. Believe what you want. Look at their official position, but ignore your tweets and their comments. I thought your were a journalist.
Show me a tweet or a comment. I am a journalist. I’d like to see what was said and by whom. Please show me.
Is it true that VR headsets allow you to live in a world where no one disagrees with you ? Asking for a friend.
@Iowamom23 posted:Please show me the part of the attached document that says they will not return to school if the police are not defunded.
COVID makes it too dangerous for teachers to go back to work. That is, unless they are given the following; defund the police/remove them from the district, shut down all charter schools, Medicare for all and federal bailout for the school district. Then it’s safe to go back to work.
It’s all politics while the kids and their working parents are held hostage.
https://justthenews.com/politi...-charter-schools-get
@Iowamom23 posted:Show me a tweet or a comment. I am a journalist. I’d like to see what was said and by whom. Please show me.
Google "LA Teachers union defund police" and it will keep you busy.
MS-NBC reporter not getting the response he expected. He shouldn’t drink so much of the company KoolAid.
Screwing up MS-NBC’s agenda ... Priceless!
@Smitty28 posted:Google "LA Teachers union defund police" and it will keep you busy.
I did. I read six stories none of which includes the words we wont go back school unless you defund police. Heres a quote from the Washington times—
“The union stressed the need for precautions to stem the spread of the coronavirus, including students being assigned to small sequestered groups, face masks, protective equipment, and school campuses being reconfigured to allow the maximum possible social distancing.”
That all sounds pretty terrible.
I’ve done what you asked me to do. Can you show me a single official statement from the union saying that Los Angeles teachers won’t go back to school unless the police are defunded?
@Pedaldad posted:I don't know how anyone with a conscience looks at this poster and doesn't want to knockout the idiot that OK'd it. I am repulsed for everyone that lost someone. New York State Leads Again.. in what needless Deaths?
Cuomo has been heralded by the Mainstream Media Democrat Party Fan Club franchise for doing a great job. Cuomo thinks he’s God. So, why shouldn’t his sycophant, arse licking fans believe the same?
Then, yesterday Jake Tapper took Cuomo to task for his handling of the crisis, all the death and the nursing home decision. Ever seen the look on a boxer’s face who never saw it coming?
@RJM posted:Cuomo has been heralded by the Mainstream Media Democrat Party Fan Club franchise for doing a great job. Cuomo thinks he’s God. So, why shouldn’t his sycophant, arse licking fans believe the same?
Then, yesterday Jake Tapper took Cuomo to task for his handling of the crisis, all the death and the nursing home decision. Ever seen the look on a boxer’s face who never saw it coming?
Without calling anyone names I can agree that I don’t care for the poster. Just seems inappropriate.
Read a description of it in the NYT. They were pretty critical too.
@Pedaldad posted:I don't know how anyone with a conscience looks at this poster and doesn't want to knockout the idiot that OK'd it. I am repulsed for everyone that lost someone. New York State Leads Again.. in what needless Deaths?
Absolutely nutty.
@Pedaldad posted:
The IHME predictions have ended up being low at almost every turn. They projected Georgia cases at ~2900 on 6/30, they were a 1000 higher.
Might be related to the shenanigans Georgia's pulling with their data presentation. In Georgia, if you test positive today, your test is backdated to when you first had symptoms. Combined with regular testing lag they're running at least a 2 week lag (they claim a 14-day window, but numbers from prior to the window routinely get revised up).
This has the effect of making it always look like the number of cases is going down. Of Georgia's 3394 reported cases yesterday, only 92 have been "assigned" to 7/14. See for yourself, https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report
Where the orange curve intersects the 14-day window line is the closest real picture you're going to get without going back and creating your own graph from the daily reported numbers.
That mostly flat region throughout May is reflective of the relative caution people were taking after the open. I live here too, and it's pretty much business as usual most places now, with ~50% mask wearing inside public spaces.
That exponential curve that starts in mid-June or so hasn't really had time to fully populate the death rate, and I agree that the infections are skewing towards a population with a lower overall death rate as well, which is likely to bring the existing fatality rate down below it's current 2.5% here. The added speed with which infections are growing is likely to counteract that, though, and we'll have a much better idea which factor is more important in another 2-3 weeks.
Of course that's when schools open, and we put 1.7 million disease vectors in close quarters every day. With no mask requirements in most districts. On the plus side, of the 9000 children under 18 in Georgia who've been infected, only 1 has died so far, so that would only project out to 50-100 extra dead kids. Unless you include the college age kids, in which case the odds are more like 1 in 2000. That's 350k in the Georgia State system, don't know how many more in private schools.
I think it's all pretty much inevitable at this point, though. Two of my sons studied German in HS, anyway. Might come in handy down the road.
Everything in my district was set to resume school with a great plan including a virtual option for the scared parents. Even my idiot sister in-law is happy because she doesn’t want her daughter wearing a mask so my niece will be virtual. My SIL is actually just a terrible parent, the mask is just an excuse.
Whelp, the teacher union decided to try to renegotiate and put out a bunch of fake or misleading info to the teachers. So they had a 3 hour rally/protest/hearing with the school board. The board basically told them to pound sand as they have not violated the contract in any way.
So now you have a bunch of teachers who have been living “normal” lives for weeks or months saying it is too dangerous for them. My wife tried explaining To them they agreed to work in a profession that is generally requires you to work in person and they can resign and find remote work if they are that scared. It got through to a few of them.
Thankfully our union here isn’t very strong. All this after getting a historic pay increase by DeSantis making them the second highest paid in the country
it amazes me people don't understand the economics in play here, there is no money. We printed 4 trillion earlier this year...99% of the people in the country don't understand how much money that really is. 4 TRILLION there is no money left - hell we didn't even start bailing out the states yet...we have to go back to work, we have to go back to school there is no option. If you ae in a profession where you can't work effectively from home (teachers) your options should be show up, quit or be terminated - this is the new normal so do your damn job or get a new profession.
@jacjacatk posted:The IHME predictions have ended up being low at almost every turn. They projected Georgia cases at ~2900 on 6/30, they were a 1000 higher.
Might be related to the shenanigans Georgia's pulling with their data presentation. In Georgia, if you test positive today, your test is backdated to when you first had symptoms. Combined with regular testing lag they're running at least a 2 week lag (they claim a 14-day window, but numbers from prior to the window routinely get revised up).
This has the effect of making it always look like the number of cases is going down. Of Georgia's 3394 reported cases yesterday, only 92 have been "assigned" to 7/14. See for yourself, https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report
Where the orange curve intersects the 14-day window line is the closest real picture you're going to get without going back and creating your own graph from the daily reported numbers.
That mostly flat region throughout May is reflective of the relative caution people were taking after the open. I live here too, and it's pretty much business as usual most places now, with ~50% mask wearing inside public spaces.
That exponential curve that starts in mid-June or so hasn't really had time to fully populate the death rate, and I agree that the infections are skewing towards a population with a lower overall death rate as well, which is likely to bring the existing fatality rate down below it's current 2.5% here. The added speed with which infections are growing is likely to counteract that, though, and we'll have a much better idea which factor is more important in another 2-3 weeks.
Of course that's when schools open, and we put 1.7 million disease vectors in close quarters every day. With no mask requirements in most districts. On the plus side, of the 9000 children under 18 in Georgia who've been infected, only 1 has died so far, so that would only project out to 50-100 extra dead kids. Unless you include the college age kids, in which case the odds are more like 1 in 2000. That's 350k in the Georgia State system, don't know how many more in private schools.
I think it's all pretty much inevitable at this point, though. Two of my sons studied German in HS, anyway. Might come in handy down the road.
You had some rational thoughts in the beginning, and then in that second to last paragraph, it got really weird.
@jacjacatk posted:
Of course that's when schools open, and we put 1.7 million disease vectors in close quarters every day. With no mask requirements in most districts. On the plus side, of the 9000 children under 18 in Georgia who've been infected, only 1 has died so far, so that would only project out to 50-100 extra dead kids. Unless you include the college age kids, in which case the odds are more like 1 in 2000. That's 350k in the Georgia State system, don't know how many more in private schools.
jacjacatk, I agree with you that Georgia will probably be in the soup in another two to three weeks. Suddenly hearing about a lot more friends and friends of friends who have gotten sick (and had to wait a week to get a test and another week to get the results). A lot of these people are teenagers and college students who are friends with my kids. One, a 20 year old camp counselor, has had it pretty bad but so far has not been hospitalized.
I'm not as concerned about kids being hospitalized or dying once they go back to school. And I agree with others that we need to figure out how to get kids back to school. But I AM concerned that many of these kids will be asymptomatic and superspreading in schools that are not practicing good social distancing and requiring masks. That will bring it to the older adults around them, who will not fare so well. When teachers, administrators, and parents start getting seriously ill and fill up the remaining hospital capacity, the schools will have to shut down and go to remote learning.
The way we get back to "normal" is by all of us taking the risk reduction measures seriously. Wash your hands often and use hand sanitizer when you can't wash your hands. Socially distance from people you don't live with. Avoid crowds of people, indoors or outside. Wear a mask in public, especially when you are indoors. Definitely stay home if you feel even a bit unwell. It has to be a "new normal" until we have an effective treatment or vaccine. The economy will not get better until we all realize this.
@old_school posted:it amazes me people don't understand the economics in play here, there is no money. We printed 4 trillion earlier this year...99% of the people in the country don't understand how much money that really is. 4 TRILLION there is no money left - hell we didn't even start bailing out the states yet...we have to go back to work, we have to go back to school there is no option. If you ae in a profession where you can't work effectively from home (teachers) your options should be show up, quit or be terminated - this is the new normal so do your damn job or get a new profession.
The nurses have to show up, quit, or be terminated too. Always. Nothing new.
@LuckyCat posted:jacjacatk, I agree with you that Georgia will probably be in the soup in another two to three weeks. Suddenly hearing about a lot more friends and friends of friends who have gotten sick (and had to wait a week to get a test and another week to get the results). A lot of these people are teenagers and college students who are friends with my kids. One, a 20 year old camp counselor, has had it pretty bad but so far has not been hospitalized.
I'm not as concerned about kids being hospitalized or dying once they go back to school. And I agree with others that we need to figure out how to get kids back to school. But I AM concerned that many of these kids will be asymptomatic and superspreading in schools that are not practicing good social distancing and requiring masks. That will bring it to the older adults around them, who will not fare so well. When teachers, administrators, and parents start getting seriously ill and fill up the remaining hospital capacity, the schools will have to shut down and go to remote learning.
The way we get back to "normal" is by all of us taking the risk reduction measures seriously. Wash your hands often and use hand sanitizer when you can't wash your hands. Socially distance from people you don't live with. Avoid crowds of people, indoors or outside. Wear a mask in public, especially when you are indoors. Definitely stay home if you feel even a bit unwell. It has to be a "new normal" until we have an effective treatment or vaccine. The economy will not get better until we all realize this.
Is GA not requiring masks to return to school? What other districts or states will not be requiring masks, distancing, or other safety measures?
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Is GA not requiring masks to return to school? What other districts or states will not be requiring masks, distancing, or other safety measures?
Iowa won’t require them. Our district just announced that I think middle school and high school kids will be required to wear them, staff and teachers will. Elementary kids won’t.
@Iowamom23 posted:Iowa won’t require them. Our district just announced that I think middle school and high school kids will be required to wear them, staff and teachers will. Elementary kids won’t.
FL isn't necessarily "requiring" them either, but every district approved to open had it in their plan. I would look district by district to see what is happening as far as safety measures. Our district is requiring elementary kids to wear them, but I've heard from medical professionals it is pointless since they won't be able to wear them properly all day long. FL also said districts must be approved to open by their local health departments. Miami, Broward, and I think Palm Beach are not allowed to open yet, and probably shouldn't.
Funny thing this morning, our teachers are protesting going back to school while some Palm Beach teachers are protesting because they can't go back to school.
@anotherparent posted:
The head of the CDC has published an editorial in JAMA about mask-wearing:
https://jamanetwork.com/journa...fullarticle/2768532?
It's very clear, and cites published medical studies, including the one about the two hairstylists in Missouri.
I'm an optimist.
Not sure whether you are poking fun at this article or being serious but...
This is absolute garbage and is nothing more than an opinion piece. Not a single shred of science or data whatsoever. It's laughable. Pure speculation by the author. I guess that's why it's an editorial?
@ABSORBER posted:Not sure whether you are poking fun at this article or being serious but...
This is absolute garbage and is nothing more than an opinion piece. Not a single shred of science or data whatsoever. It's laughable. Pure speculation by the author. I guess that's why it's an editorial?
I said it was an opinion piece. Do you know what footnotes are? The data and science are in the articles cited in the footnotes.
It's fine to say that teachers (or nurses) should show up in person or find another job. What happens if they don't have enough teachers (or nurses) to run the schools (or hospitals)? Or do you think that won't happen? I'm really curious. I don't see why it has to be adversarial; in fact, it cannot succeed if it's adversarial. Parents need teachers, teachers need parents.
@anotherparent posted:I said it was an opinion piece. Do you know what footnotes are? The data and science are in the articles cited in the footnotes.
It's fine to say that teachers (or nurses) should show up in person or find another job. What happens if they don't have enough teachers (or nurses) to run the schools (or hospitals)? Or do you think that won't happen? I'm really curious. I don't see why it has to be adversarial; in fact, it cannot succeed if it's adversarial. Parents need teachers, teachers need parents.
A lot of talk right now of mass teacher layoffs due to the number of kids opting for virtual or home schooling this year.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:A lot of talk right now of mass teacher layoffs due to the number of kids opting for virtual or home schooling this year.
Wait, so this means that the families are opting out of being in the classrooms. Hm, that's not the impression I was getting from the emails above, where people made it sound like the families want in-person but the teachers don't. Which is it?
I think most school systems have honestly no idea what teachers, or families, want. Our system announced a plan where you can choose in-person hybrid, in-person 5 days, or all online. For the high schools, the individual schools released their specific plans today. Families have 5 days to pick one. The schools will then see who opted for what. They will then have to figure out how to deliver it, in 3 weeks. I think they have no idea what the results will be. It's crazy. The question is, are people who are being vocal (on message boards, in contact with admin, etc.) shaping policies that a more silent majority doesn't, in fact, want?
Who will be teaching the virtual classes? In our system, it will be our regular teachers, the ones who don't want to/can't be in-person.
@Iowamom23 posted:I did. I read six stories none of which includes the words we wont go back school unless you defund police. Heres a quote from the Washington times—
“The union stressed the need for precautions to stem the spread of the coronavirus, including students being assigned to small sequestered groups, face masks, protective equipment, and school campuses being reconfigured to allow the maximum possible social distancing.”
That all sounds pretty terrible.
I’ve done what you asked me to do. Can you show me a single official statement from the union saying that Los Angeles teachers won’t go back to school unless the police are defunded?
I clicked on the first link (Washington Examiner) which included a link to the unions "research paper", which is a list of demands that must be met before they agree to return to the class room. This paper includes this demand on page 10:
Defund Police: Police violence is a leading cause of death and trauma for Black people, and is a serious public health and moral issue.65 We must shift the astronomical amount of money devoted to policing, to education and other essential needs such as housing and public health.
My point was (and is) that this issue has become so politicized by doctors, the media, politicians, and now teachers that no news story, article, data or "expert opinion" can be trusted and go unchallenged. Hence, the endless debate about masks, etc.
@Smitty28 posted:You'll note that the left-leaning articles you provided do not mention their demand to defund the police, etc. You probably didn't see MSNBC, CNN, etc report it either. This is why people that lean left are often so confused by this whole situation - you are really under-informed by the sources you follow.
Because THEY DID NOT DEMAND THAT. Jesus. Read the actual demands from the Teacher's union I posted above.
@Smitty28 posted:They flat out said this. They tweeted it. They are not hiding from it. This has nothing to do with school safety, it is BS politics plain and simple. I can't believe you are in such denial. No one should wonder why or how many people do not believe a word coming out of the media, doctors who said BLM should protest, or education "experts".
Smitty, you continue to put out this crap. While an internal study paid for by the teacher's union did, in fact RECOMMEND this, the Union itself did not and (THAT'S EVEN IN THE STORY YOU POSTED) presented their "demands" as outlined in the statement I posted above directly from the union.
@Smitty28 posted:I clicked on the first link (Washington Examiner) which included a link to the unions "research paper", which is a list of demands that must be met before they agree to return to the class room. This paper includes this demand on page 10:
Defund Police: Police violence is a leading cause of death and trauma for Black people, and is a serious public health and moral issue.65 We must shift the astronomical amount of money devoted to policing, to education and other essential needs such as housing and public health.
My point was (and is) that this issue has become so politicized by doctors, the media, politicians, and now teachers that no news story, article, data or "expert opinion" can be trusted and go unchallenged. Hence, the endless debate about masks, etc.
Again, you're listing things from a report. Please address the ACTUAL "demands" that the union presented in bargaining negotiations. I'll post it one more time for you. FROM THE UNION'S WEBSITE:
Here's the argument I don't hear enough which has the most merit to me.
You are going to have kids test positive. Is the plan to just let it run it's course? No. That won't work. So, if you have a kid or teacher test positive, what's the excepted method of handling it? That's right - the 14 day self-quarantine. You think online classes are disrupted? Just imagine the scrambling when positive tests come out and you have to suddenly, on a dime, go back to distance learning for groups of kids exposed.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:A lot of talk right now of mass teacher layoffs due to the number of kids opting for virtual or home schooling this year.
Excellent point. While there is talk about how bad distance learning is, there are an increasing number of kids who were switching to this even before the outbreak. This will just expedite this flight to online learning.
@anotherparent posted:Wait, so this means that the families are opting out of being in the classrooms. Hm, that's not the impression I was getting from the emails above, where people made it sound like the families want in-person but the teachers don't. Which is it?
I think most school systems have honestly no idea what teachers, or families, want. Our system announced a plan where you can choose in-person hybrid, in-person 5 days, or all online. For the high schools, the individual schools released their specific plans today. Families have 5 days to pick one. The schools will then see who opted for what. They will then have to figure out how to deliver it, in 3 weeks. I think they have no idea what the results will be. It's crazy. The question is, are people who are being vocal (on message boards, in contact with admin, etc.) shaping policies that a more silent majority doesn't, in fact, want?
Who will be teaching the virtual classes? In our system, it will be our regular teachers, the ones who don't want to/can't be in-person.
Seems to be pretty split down the middle where I live as far as families sending kids back. Our back to school plan sounds almost identical. A growing number of families are choosing to home school though because the public virtual school was terrible at best.
Our district did a survey well over a month ago (teachers and families). They offered a choice to the families. The teachers who have medical concerns will be out of regular classrooms and doing virtual instruction or in one on one type of teaching for special needs.
The teachers going back is a mess right now. Everything was fine until yesterday. The union sent out an email telling them their teacher rights were being violated and they should not go back. Well, turns out their teacher contracts and rights were not being violated, but the union did their job of pissing them all off.
**EDIT** My wife just got off a conference with her school and they said they are down to only 50 virtual requests out of 700. There are just under 100 that didn't respond that are being considered in person. So nowhere near the numbers they were expecting.
Wal-Mart and Sams Club mandate masks for all shoppers in all stores beginning Monday.
@roothog66 posted:Excellent point. While there is talk about how bad distance learning is, there are an increasing number of kids who were switching to this even before the outbreak. This will just expedite this flight to online learning.
Right, so let's just take away the rights of those who aren't scared and want to receive a normal education. Online learning works great for some, but is very bad for others. Then there are those who just don't want to do it.
There are lots of studies which are not being disputed that talk about the negative impact of kids not being in school.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Right, so let's just take away the rights of those who aren't scared and want to receive a normal education. Online learning works great for some, but is very bad for others. Then there are those who just don't want to do it.
There are lots of studies which are not being disputed that talk about the negative impact of kids not being in school.
Actually, they are being talked about a lot. Also, where do you get the idea that "in person" education is a "right?" Please show me WHERE that "right" has been granted. There is no "right" to this outside of what is granted by statute or the Constitution It's nowhere in the Constitution (note that public education didn't even exist in 1792).
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Seems to be pretty split down the middle where I live as far as families sending kids back. Our back to school plan sounds almost identical. A growing number of families are choosing to home school though because the public virtual school was terrible at best.
Our district did a survey well over a month ago (teachers and families). They offered a choice to the families. The teachers who have medical concerns will be out of regular classrooms and doing virtual instruction or in one on one type of teaching for special needs.
The teachers going back is a mess right now. Everything was fine until yesterday. The union sent out an email telling them their teacher rights were being violated and they should not go back. Well, turns out their teacher contracts and rights were not being violated, but the union did their job of pissing them all off.
What your missing is that most teachers sign their new contracts for the year in August and a lot of teacher's unions are telling their members not to sign the new contracts until certain issues are addressed. As to "turns out their teacher contracts and rights were not being violated" you write this as if you have specifics that were covered in their contracts. Could you share what "rights" and contract provisions you're referring to?
@roothog66 posted:Actually, they are being talked about a lot. Also, where do you get the idea that "in person" education is a "right?" Please show me WHERE that "right" has been granted. There is no "right" to this outside of what is granted by statute or the Constitution It's nowhere in the Constitution (note that public education didn't even exist in 1792).
Virtual education isn't a right either. What's your next argument? Keep em coming.
@roothog66 posted:What your missing is that most teachers sign their new contracts for the year in August and a lot of teacher's unions are telling their members not to sign the new contracts until certain issues are addressed. As to "turns out their teacher contracts and rights were not being violated" you write this as if you have specifics that were covered in their contracts. Could you share what "rights" and contract provisions you're referring to?
My wife is a teacher (doesn't belong to the union). I'm well aware of what is in their contract. The union spent 3 hours in front of the school board saying their contract was being violated only to find it was not being violated. So nothing in their contract is being violated.
Look, my wife's a teacher and she actually wants to go back because she finds teaching online far more difficult. However, there has to be a balance between the fact that children learn better in person and the significant health risks involved in shoving kids into what were already in many instances crowded class rooms. I see one major school district in California that will split the classes up between online and in-person so that they can have classrooms with a minimal number of students socially distanced and wearing masks. However, I'll mention the problem again - what do you do when someone in the class inevitably tests positive?
@Iowamom23 posted:Wal-Mart and Sams Club mandate masks for all shoppers in all stores beginning Monday.
It's been that way here (Virginia) since March or April. Though in a way it's a joke - I've seen some customers not wearing a mask after entering the store. And no, no one says anything.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Virtual education isn't a right either. What's your next argument? Keep em coming.
I never said it was. WTH are you talking about? I wasn't the one complaining about "taking away rights," so that burden is on you. Your above rebuttal doesn't cut it. Again, point me to the "right" to attend school in person.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Right, so let's just take away the rights of those who aren't scared and want to receive a normal education. Online learning works great for some, but is very bad for others. Then there are those who just don't want to do it.
There are lots of studies which are not being disputed that talk about the negative impact of kids not being in school.
TBPT, there will be no "normal" education for now. It's going to suck no matter what. If we all pull together and take this virus seriously, we have the best chance of letting kids start AND finish a semester inside a school room if that's what they and their parents want to do. We really are all in this together.
