Elephant in the room

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

You are 100% correct. I forgot how rural Miami is. 

You can't use the same strategy for the same state, much less the entire country. Two counties in FL represent almost half the entire cases. So the entire state should follow the same restrictions? And yes, even with the spike in cases, NY is WAY different than FL. FL used a sensible approach that has resulted in FAR fewer deaths than NY or other metro areas. 

What's next in your flip chart of Covid strategies? We've burned through; flatten the curve, wait two more weeks, a vaccine is just months away, wear a mask, and now we need a national policy. 

You can't trust any of FL's numbers since they are coding them as anything but. Their Governor is just a Trump lackey and won't acknowledge any other reasonable position. And there are also many other long term and permanent illnesses and disabilities in all populations resulting from this. The death count isn't the only issue. FL's seniors have been largely quarantining - if they stopped the death toll would skyrocket.

" in fact it was discouraged because the spike in cases demonstrated by testing would look bad politically."  

How do you figure?  They are now grouping presumed cases (no positive test just symptoms and exposure) with real positive tests.  They say that some of the tests (those that required a nasal swab and a saliva sample) were counted as two separate tests.  They estimate that there were 350,000 more results than tests given ( just based on that).  

You can honestly choose to believe whatever you would like, but I too, think about how smoking used to be safe, the water in Flint Michigan was safe, teflon wasn't an issue...agendas are everywhere and when you can attach money to positive cases and deaths for failing hospitals it equals corruption.  Add in an election year, and if you aren't questioning everything, you should be.

@baseballhs posted:

" in fact it was discouraged because the spike in cases demonstrated by testing would look bad politically."  

How do you figure?  They are now grouping presumed cases (no positive test just symptoms and exposure) with real positive tests.  They say that some of the tests (those that required a nasal swab and a saliva sample) were counted as two separate tests.  They estimate that there were 350,000 more results than tests given ( just based on that).  

You can honestly choose to believe whatever you would like, but I too, think about how smoking used to be safe, the water in Flint Michigan was safe, teflon wasn't an issue...agendas are everywhere and when you can attach money to positive cases and deaths for failing hospitals it equals corruption.  Add in an election year, and if you aren't questioning everything, you should be.

I figure because Trump said it out loud in public. Not through the media - his words - and actions. Even if you take the numbers you just cited as inflated, we are still waaaay under testing on a per capita level.

I do question everything. Smoking, water, teflon - none of them are contagious so people can make their own choices, but with COVID, the choices others make imact me and everyone else. That's the difference. Also they may be imperfect, and some even compromised (Birx), but generally I'll trust them over the guy who lies constantly and has bilked hard working people out of their money for decades to line his own pockets. Call me crazy.

@roothog66 posted:

Mainly, here, I'm mentioning people who are invested through 401(k) plans and such that they contribute to on a monthly basis. Yeah. It used to be basically a gimme that banks paid around 5% interest on savings and a T-Bill yielded 4-5%. Of course I can remember mortgage rates in the late 70's running close to 20%.

In my early twenties a friend and I calculated buying a three bedroom and renting the third room worked out financially as well as renting a two bedroom. Plus we were building equity. We bought during the Carter years. When we refi’ed down to 15% we went out and partied. 

A little poll.  If a Covid vaccine is developed, would you take it?

@Consultant posted:

Baseball Questions for - baseballhs -  terrible BP thrower - Old School - fishnsail

1. Who is your favorite player?  Why?

2. When you played College baseball were you a pitcher or hitter?

3. Did your son attend  the Area Code tryouts?  Where? Did we meet?

Bob

1. Carl Yastrzemski. Home team bias. He never stopped working to be better no matter how good he was.

2. Recruited as an outfielder. Put my hand up freshman year when coach asked if there’s a damn lefty who can come out of the pen throwing strikes. It was more playing time. Was used more situationally soph year before winning starting outfield position. Never pitched again. 

3. Son attended Yankees tryout ten years ago. Didn’t make team. Good exposure experience. 

@RJM posted:

How could you possibly allow your son to place others at risk by allowing him to play baseball? He’s placing everyone on his team at risk. I only interact with a hostess and a waiter in a restaurant.

I agree, I think it is dangerous. I don't think he puts the entire team at risk. When any member of the team  — including him — decides to interact with people other than those on the team, it puts the entire team and heck, the entire league, at risk of being shut down.

So they are working to have the players limit their interaction with people off the team, and that's my entire point.  Each individual seems to be sacrificing what might be fun and easy for each of them, and what they are free to do if they want,  in the interests of the greater good — everyone getting to play baseball. So far it seems to be working.

@Consultant posted:

Baseball Questions for - baseballhs -  terrible BP thrower - Old School - fishnsail

1. Who is your favorite player?  Why?

2. When you played College baseball were you a pitcher or hitter?

3. Did your son attend  the Area Code tryouts?  Where? Did we meet?

Bob

Ok, I'll play...

1.  Mike Schmidt.  I loved the fact that he could go deep at any at bat and that he played a great third base.

2.  As my dad often reminded me, I was better at baseball through high school, but played football in college.  A       hitter.

3.  My son did not attend AC games.  Would have been fun.

@anotherparent posted:

Having said that, I also think that if an elected government on whatever level, feels that it needs to shut down bars or anything else to protect the lives and economic well-being of the people who elected it, then that is a product of our form of government.  If you don't like what a local, state, or federal government is doing, vote them out the next time.  If they get re-elected, that means a majority of people agree with them.  And that goes for both sides.  Polls right now show that a vast majority of people in the US favor mask-wearing (Fox News poll on June 19 showed 80% of Americans in favor of masks, including 68% of Republicans; see https://www.foxnews.com/politi...-masks-no-to-rallies). 

If you disagree with what elected officials are saying, and you disagree with polls, then on what basis do you argue that what you want to do should be allowed? 

People often respond to polls going the response of least resistance. I question 80% of people support wearing masks. It also depends how the question is asked. There are circumstances where I would answer yes. But overall, no.

@2019&21 Dad posted:

Just because they can, doesn't mean they should. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

I’m not justifying either action. I pointing out the inconsistency.

@2019&21 Dad posted:

The Trump comments are right on target and I've seen way too many people acting like immature children than adults. We don't have a national plan to deal with this, and that is exactly what is needed. 

You now have two swings and a miss. Steee-rike Twooo! ...

I pointed out inconsistencies in COVID rules (the primary point) and your response was “neither should be done.”

I pointed out ignore the Trump comments because Maher identified the problem (the primary point) and you jumped on the Trump comments. 

@baseballhs posted:

As long as you are good with driving to any games your kid might play in or across the country to a tournament, or just playing local.  IF you aren't good with it, I'd suggest you relax and get on a plane.  Myself and my family have been on 12 different planes in the last month...we are all still standing.  I want real life back and I'm willing to live with the risk not only to live life but to give normal life a fighting chance to return.

I drove 1000 miles, 800 miles, 800 miles, and 500 miles - and those were just the long-distance ones.  Great adventures, we won't forget them!  The barbecue alone...

@RJM posted:

I’m not justifying either action. I pointing out the inconsistency.

I agree it's inconsistent. The problem is so many people don't want a national strategy. If we had one, that strategy could say how many people could get on a plane (and I'd be more likely to buy a ticket cause I'd know) and how much the arena has to restrict its attendance. Now, everybody has to figure it out for themselves.

I really don't understand exactly what it's okay for people can go to the Waterloo Bucks baseball field, but no one will be allowed in to see the Cubs, for instance. Again, a national strategy would help resolve that.

@RJM posted:

You now have two swings and a miss. Steee-rike Twooo! ...

I pointed out inconsistencies in COVID rules (the primary point) and your response was “neither should be done.”

I pointed out ignore the Trump comments because Maher identified the problem (the primary point) and you jumped on the Trump comments. 

Was there a point to your pointing out the inconsistencies? I mean, there are some inconsistencies in everything. So what? I'd argue that the 2 examples you cited aren't inconsistent at all - they're both not good ideas right now. I'd just rather not "ignore the Trump comments" because they are pertinent. 

@2019&21 Dad posted:

You can't trust any of FL's numbers since they are coding them as anything but. Their Governor is just a Trump lackey and won't acknowledge any other reasonable position. And there are also many other long term and permanent illnesses and disabilities in all populations resulting from this. The death count isn't the only issue. FL's seniors have been largely quarantining - if they stopped the death toll would skyrocket.

Wait, we have someone saying Florida's numbers are too low.  And we had someone saying his state's numbers were too high.  WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY???

@anotherparent posted:

Wait, we have someone saying Florida's numbers are too low.  And we had someone saying his state's numbers were too high.  WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY???

@RJM posted:

People often respond to polls going the response of least resistance. I question 80% of people support wearing masks. It also depends how the question is asked. There are circumstances where I would answer yes. But overall, no.

Well, if you think that Fox News asked the poll question in a way that would get more people to say they supported masks, would you like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

@DesertDuck posted:

Some things are self evident.

@DesertDuck posted:

Have you heard of "positivity rate"?  There's a spike in that, too.

@2019&21 Dad posted:

Problem is viruses don't recognize local boundaries. In March on here we were talking about how NY is different than rural areas like Arizona and Texas and Florida. Not so different now. Never was. It's just a matter of time.

Not true at all. The Maine border is only twenty miles from the Massachusetts border. Massachusetts has been a COVID hotbed with 8,200+ deaths. Maine has had 117. If situations are consistent across the board, given the difference in population Maine should have 1,400+ deaths. 

@Consultant posted:

Baseball Questions for - baseballhs -  terrible BP thrower - Old School - fishnsail

1. Who is your favorite player?  Why?

2. When you played College baseball were you a pitcher or hitter?

3. Did your son attend  the Area Code tryouts?  Where? Did we meet?

Bob

Love these surveys!

1.   Growing up had to be Steve Garvey, "Mr. All-American".

2.    Nope, only played 1 year in high school, wasn't my thing.

3.   He wasn't invited, we weren't really familiar with the program.  I would have loved to see how he stacked up against the elite players.  It was probably for the best he didn't get the opportunity though.  Made him hungrier to excel.

@anotherparent posted:

Wait, we have someone saying Florida's numbers are too low.  And we had someone saying his state's numbers were too high.  WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY???

Saying you can't trust the validity of any numbers regardless of level. One thing is for sure - cases and deaths in FL are currently spiking tremendously. Who knows what they would be if the Governor wasn't like Mayor Larry Vaughn in Jaws? Let's keep those beaches open and the money flowing in! The inherent problem is the lack of trust.

@RJM posted:

Not true at all. The Maine border is only twenty miles from the Massachusetts border. Massachusetts has been a COVID hotbed with 8,200+ deaths. Maine has had 117. If situations are consistent across the board, given the difference in population Maine should have 1,400+ deaths. 

So why doesn't Maine? Not as much close contact? Or maybe because of the super spreader Biogen event in Massachussetts? I'd argue the latter is an outlier accounting for the difference.

@Consultant posted:

Baseball Questions for - baseballhs -  terrible BP thrower - Old School - fishnsail

1. Who is your favorite player?  Why?

2. When you played College baseball were you a pitcher or hitter?

3. Did your son attend  the Area Code tryouts?  Where? Did we meet?

Bob

I really like this post so I will play also. 
1. Nolan Ryan - the best power arm of his generation and the ultimate competitor. No telling what he would have done if he had developed his change up sooner. 
2. I played CF as a freshman in JuCo and convinced myself that everyone that said I needed to be a PO was actually correct. So I was a RHP for the rest of my playing days 3. My youngest son attended Area Code tryouts in Waco (at McLennan) in 2016. The talent level was off the chart. 

@2019&21 Dad posted:

You can't trust any of FL's numbers since they are coding them as anything but. Their Governor is just a Trump lackey and won't acknowledge any other reasonable position. And there are also many other long term and permanent illnesses and disabilities in all populations resulting from this. The death count isn't the only issue. FL's seniors have been largely quarantining - if they stopped the death toll would skyrocket.

Here we go, accusing the FL governor of fake numbers with zero evidence. No kidding the number would go up if they stopped quarantining! That’s why the governor shut down access to them!

@2019&21 Dad posted:

I assume you're pro abortion then right? Don't tell people what to do with their bodies with life and death on the line.

Steeee-rike threeeeee! Yer out!

I’m a right leaning libertarian. I don’t believe I have the right, nor does anyone else have the right to tell others how to live their life as long as the general public isn’t harmed. 

My (ex) wife got pregnant three years before we planned to have children. Being “choose life” we chose to have the baby. If people could put their emotions aside to have an intelligent debate the abortion debate could be one of the incredible intellectual debates. I can see valid arguments on both sides. 

FL tested well over 100k people in a single day the other day. What do you think would happen to the numbers?

@PitchingFan posted:

A little poll.  If a Covid vaccine is developed, would you take it?

I wouldn’t be first in line. I would wait until enough people  (millions) have taken the vaccine to know the allergic reaction death rate is in tenths of one percent first. 

@2019&21 Dad posted:

The national policy is "ignore it and it'll go away", and "don't test and the numbers won't look bad". 

"I'm pleased and happy to repeat the news that we have, in fact, caught and killed a large predator that supposedly injured some bathers. But, as you see, it's a beautiful day, the beaches are open and people are having a wonderful time. Amity, as you know, means "friendship"." - Mayor Larry Vaughn

I love the Jaws reference(my fav movie) but would love to see your FB profile even more..

Sure it has the usual in there...

@Iowamom23 posted:

I agree it's inconsistent. The problem is so many people don't want a national strategy. If we had one, that strategy could say how many people could get on a plane (and I'd be more likely to buy a ticket cause I'd know) and how much the arena has to restrict its attendance. Now, everybody has to figure it out for themselves.

I really don't understand exactly what it's okay for people can go to the Waterloo Bucks baseball field, but no one will be allowed in to see the Cubs, for instance. Again, a national strategy would help resolve that.

It’s impossible to have a national strategy. The situation is different from state to state. The situation is different from county to county within states. 

Fauci has been all over the place in his recommendations. He’s the person responsible for advising Trump. When this is over there needs to be an investigation of how things have been handled and the advice provided. It should start with the CDC and WHO. 

@2019&21 Dad posted:

Was there a point to your pointing out the inconsistencies? I mean, there are some inconsistencies in everything. So what? I'd argue that the 2 examples you cited aren't inconsistent at all - they're both not good ideas right now. I'd just rather not "ignore the Trump comments" because they are pertinent. 

The point of telling people to ignore the Trump comments is because I wanted people to hear a very logical, insightful commentary. I figured some wouldn’t watch because Maher is a lefty. I was concerned some might turn it off on the first a Trump comment.

I have the ability to listen to both sides. You don’t. You’ve invoked Trump in every one of your posts today. You suffer from a bad case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. Before you go for Strike Four I didn’t vote for him in 2016. 

I don’t argue for the sake of arguing. Bye! 

ok I'm done. I'll stick with the Jaws theme to end my participation in this nonsense. >  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_srh8bpYsM 

Good luck to everybody. Stay healthy, keep others healthy, wear a mask.

@RoadRunner posted:

This is an article from France. I chose France in an effort to eliminate the “orange man factor”. It’s a calculated risk. You decide. I know how I feel, and what I’ll do based on the information that is available to us. 
https://www.france24.com/en/20...can-damage-the-brain

Translated from the English:

Ce que l'article ne mentionne pas, c'est que tous les patients atteints de lésions neurologiques étaient l'équivalent britannique des démocrates enregistrés.

Vive le slob orange qui ne peut pas descendre une rampe, qui ne peut pas boire un verre d'eau d'une main, mais que peut tenir une Bible qu'il n'a jamais lue à l'extérieur d'une église, il n'est jamais allé!

Vive Somnolent Joe qui invite des enfants à son porche pour des glaces, se fait arrêter en Afrique du Sud pour avoir protesté contre l'apartheid et qui peut tenir une maman de moto sur ses genoux pendant que son mari regarde avec approbation!

Quel président voulez-vous, les Américains?

Vive l'Amérique!!

@anotherparent posted:

Well, if you think that Fox News asked the poll question in a way that would get more people to say they supported masks, would you like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

Fox News contracts out their polls. They don’t necessarily get to state how the question will be asked. I’ve seen Fox poll results where it’s obvious an agenda isn’t being pushed. The result was contrary to right leaning opinion.

How the results of polls is translated isn’t always accurate. The only way to know what a poll really says is first look at the data behind the poll. You have to know who was polled, how many were polled for margin of error and the exact wording of the question(s).

Ask people in NYC about masks is going to get a very different result than asking people in Montana. Asking too few people creates a large possibility if error. Polls sometimes ask leading questions looking for a certain answer.

@2019&21 Dad posted:

So why doesn't Maine? Not as much close contact? Or maybe because of the super spreader Biogen event in Massachussetts? I'd argue the latter is an outlier accounting for the difference.

Boston is an international city due to education, technology and research. The State of Maine isn’t international. The international visitors come in the summer. I rarely see Asian people in Maine.

I had lunch at Quincy Market while the Biogen conference was being held across the street at the Marriott conference center. There were so many Chinese people (likely spouses and kids of attendees) at Quincy Market it was noticeable. 95 of 100 of the first cases in Massachusetts traced back to the Biogen conference.

Unfortunately every move the Maine Governor has made has paralleled the decisions made for NYC despite COVID not being a major issue in the state. She shut down counties with zero deaths. 

@fishnsail posted:

I love the Jaws reference(my fav movie) but would love to see your FB profile even more..

Sure it has the usual in there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJCZbXqbkBc

@OldSchoolPlayerandCoach posted:

Ok, I'll play...

1.  Mike Schmidt.  I loved the fact that he could go deep at any at bat and that he played a great third base.

2.  As my dad often reminded me, I was better at baseball through high school, but played football in college.  A       hitter.

3.  My son did not attend AC games.  Would have been fun.

Favorite player: Tie (for very different reasons) between Jim Bouton and Mark "The Bird" Fidrych.

Position in college: Crafty right-handed pitcher.  I was slow but I didn't have any control.

AC games: What is this Air Conditioner games of which you speak?

Old School;

Area Code Baseball 1987 to 2020. Average signing bonus is $35 million per year

Bob

Bob, how many tryouts do you attend each year?

When I sold in 2004, I organized and attended every tryout. We formed a 900 team for players who I believed "prospects". This include Albert P and Adam LaRoche.

Bob