High school baseball.

ConcernedPapa posted:

Unfortunately people aren't reading the details.  The varisty team is 9 -12 strong. D1 power 5 verbal commits.  I never said he should start.  I expected he would play JV, but our jv team is not well run . Not much teaching or reps.  When it came  to tryouts my son was objectively better than all than maybe 5 of the kids.  I would love for him to play JV and practice with varisty so D1 MIF can mentor him,  and he can get more teaching reps. I would hope the HC would want to develop him that way, rather than send him down and practice with far less talented kids and maybe not quite as good instruction.  This is not a case of my kids great deserves....its about how to develop players. He will not stay down not get as many reps or as good instruction for 1 and maybe even 2 years behind upper classmen just because of year. I could say this about another boy or two in his class as well. For all you crazies chiming in with 5 tool / not a 5 tool guy  He runs in the 6 s. Throws and exits in the mid 80s,  with a SS glove that can always get better.  

I think people on this board have a better understanding than you are giving them credit for.  It is a rare HS coach that is thinking about developing younger players at the expense of upperclassmen. It is even more rare for upperclassmen to mentor a freshman that may already be better than they are. It is even more rare for a JV program to be well run and provide meaningful practice reps. So I think the conclusion I have come to is that your expectations aren’t realistic. Not that there is anything wrong with what you are wanting, its just not gonna happen. 

ConcernedPapa posted:

Unfortunately people aren't reading the details.  The varisty team is 9 -12 strong. D1 power 5 verbal commits.  I never said he should start.  I expected he would play JV, but our jv team is not well run . Not much teaching or reps.  When it came  to tryouts my son was objectively better than all than maybe 5 of the kids.  I would love for him to play JV and practice with varisty so D1 MIF can mentor him,  and he can get more teaching reps. I would hope the HC would want to develop him that way, rather than send him down and practice with far less talented kids and maybe not quite as good instruction.  This is not a case of my kids great deserves....its about how to develop players. He will not stay down not get as many reps or as good instruction for 1 and maybe even 2 years behind upper classmen just because of year. I could say this about another boy or two in his class as well. For all you crazies chiming in with 5 tool / not a 5 tool guy  He runs in the 6 s. Throws and exits in the mid 80s,  with a SS glove that can always get better.  

You called your son a five tool player. People on this board expect five tool players to start varsity and be D1 recruits. 

Since you’re new to the board I’m going to share a piece of advice you will see often here. You will see it so much you will start noticing every time professional athletes say it ... DON’T WORRY ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN’T CONTROL.

Your son gave it his best shot to make varsity. He didn’t. Now he has to play JV. His job is to overwhelm JV ball to the point where he deserves a shot on varsity. You job is to not “big time” other JV parents with your “better than their son” player. Be part of the group. If you hear crazy, delusional stuff program yourself to respond, “uh-huh.”

My son didn’t become a better player at JV practice when he was a freshman. He became a better player with all the reps we did on our own and playing for a top travel team. All JV ball provided was an avenue to prove he should be on varsity the following year. But he knew that. The coaches knew it. 

if you don’t learn to handle this situation you’re going to need a padded cell when college recruiting comes around.,

Good thread here and glad I saw it. Starting to get into the situation where my freshman son could possibly end up on varsity or JV. Their baseball class is separated into two groups, a group of kids who will be on the sophomore team and the JV team. The other group is the varsity team with possible sophomores who have a shot at varsity. My son got moved into that group. The fear is that if he makes varsity he will see limited time where on JV he will get PT. But this was a good read and going to worry a lot less about it.

When son was freshman, he connected with the top pitcher & arranged additional practises (30min to 1 hr) after hours, as time/ commitments permitted for both...It was a good time for some brainstorming strategy, technique development, etc. He also spent time with track kids working on burst & footwork...

So, much of the development you think the coach should be doing...actually falls on the player to seek out. Options are teammates or training facilities. Self motivation is fundamental to getting what he wants. 

ConcernedPapa posted:

Unfortunately people aren't reading the details.  The varisty team is 9 -12 strong. D1 power 5 verbal commits.  I never said he should start.  I expected he would play JV, but our jv team is not well run . Not much teaching or reps.  When it came  to tryouts my son was objectively better than all than maybe 5 of the kids.  I would love for him to play JV and practice with varisty so D1 MIF can mentor him,  and he can get more teaching reps. I would hope the HC would want to develop him that way, rather than send him down and practice with far less talented kids and maybe not quite as good instruction.  This is not a case of my kids great deserves....its about how to develop players. He will not stay down not get as many reps or as good instruction for 1 and maybe even 2 years behind upper classmen just because of year. I could say this about another boy or two in his class as well. For all you crazies chiming in with 5 tool / not a 5 tool guy  He runs in the 6 s. Throws and exits in the mid 80s,  with a SS glove that can always get better.  

Look...you are digging yourself a bigger hole. I went back and reread your posts and the problem is not us reading the details, it is you failing to provide details, other then how good your son is. You never said that the varsity team was 9-12 strong with D1 P5 commits until the above. You did not say he should start but you did said he was "clearly right behind the 2 MIF's" so that would make him the 3rd best MIF on the team. You did say that 4-5 players, who will never play in games, made varsity. You said your son was a 5-tool player as a freshman (in 3+ years of visiting this board, I have never heard any parent say those words, let alone the parent of a HS freshman). My son (soph in college) has 4 current teammates who are projected to get drafted in the top 50 in 2020 draft with 1 of those players projected as a top 2. I have never heard anyone label these players as 5-tool. 

These forums are hands down, the best source for all things related to playing amateur baseball and you start off your experience here with a question that you already have answered and looking for others to support. That is not how things work on this board. You are going to hear about our experiences and we will answer your question based on those experiences. There are also coaches, former coaches, scouts, former scouts, players, former players, etc. who know far more about the game then you or I because it was or is their life's passion! As I like to tell our players, always have a growth-mindset!

As for the the "crazies" comment, you might want to reevaluate who knows more about what it means to be a true 5-tool player!

CoachLD wrote: As for the the "crazies" comment, you might want to reevaluate who knows more about what it means to be a true 5-tool player!

Well, that about sums it up!  

Nice thread and especially good input from current and past HS coaches. Son played freshman baseball first year,and got called up also played a few JV games then limited ABs for varsity at playoffs. Then played V last three years. Saw a mix of coach playing best and playing upperclassmen which at times seemed to pull at opposite directions. College actually liked son's HS versatility at starting 6 positions (no P/1B/C) at varsity.

Son's college teammates were both shocked and razzed him when they found that my son was DH'ed for several games his sophomore year in HS. Note, son was a position player, not pitcher. A bad four games at plate I guess was reason; killed me as he couldn't be used for PR late in game, coach liked his defense, and wanted a senior to get ABs. It is what it is. Fast forward. This past June, the same player who was DH'ed for sophomore year HS, finished #2 in career hits for his college team, #6 in hits in conference all time.  Keep working. Repetitions are important, regardless of level. 

I am a bit confused (maybe because I do not live in Florida) but don't most HS baseball tryouts take place in the couple of weeks before the baseball season?  Don't some of the potential 2020 baseball team players play football?

Also, how big is your son's HS?

2022 grad posted:

Interesting how perspectives can differ.  Last year my son was a freshman on the bubble during varsity tryouts.  My wife and I were hoping he wouldnt make it be placed onto the JV team.  JV team has a great coach and he would get more playing time.  Last day of tryouts he got sent down to JV, coach told him to kick ass and come back stronger next year.  He ended the season with the best BA, best ERA, and tons of confidence.  It couldnt have turned out any better and he has had a fire under his butt all summer, weightlifting 3 time a week and hitting in the cages 5 days a week.  Adversity often brings the best out of people.

I was going to offer my son's freshman experience, but I see 2022 grad already wrote about it!  Seriously, this was almost identical to what happened with my son.  The one difference being the coaching on my son's JV team was not very good.  The coach was truly a high character guy and all of the boys loved playing for him, but he's the V football coach.  He just didn't have much background in or knowledge of baseball.  Is it better to have good coaching?  Sure it is - we can all agree on that.  But there is a silver lining in every situation if you look for it.  My son has played on a pretty high level travel team, where he was a middle of the pack contributor.  On this team he was a top player, and as a top player he was looked to by his teammates and by the coach to be a leader on the field, and he embraced that role.  He became much more vocal in discussing situational scenarios with the defense and setting a positive tone.  He was the player who said shake it off and get the next one when errors were made.  He's had fantastic coaching before and it's been instrumental to his development.  But he never learned as much about being a leader of a team as he did this year.  IMO, that's just as important to his success as knowing his cutoff assignments.  Oh, and those bubble players that went up to  V - they didn't play much.  All I'm saying is if you look at it from all angles I think your son is in a pretty good spot.  

I have a 2022, played JV as a freshman, in our league once a kid plays a V game they can't be moved back down. If he would have played V he would have been a PO, instead he played JV, played MIF and had a good season.

We do our tryouts in the fall where we also have about 10 scrimmages against other schools. Looks like he'll be 1 of 2 sophs that'll play V this year. I don't think playing a year of JV held him back. Also got to play his friends while adjusting to HS.

I'm not sure why you are so concerned about HS baseball. My son played HS baseball, enjoyed it, but it did nothing for him in regards to playing at the next level. TB and events like PBR got him a DI scholarship. We had a softball player here who didn't play an inning of HS softball until her Sr year (already had the scholarship) and received a scholarship to Vanderbilt. There's a saying I think applies here about controlling the things you can, accepting the things you can't, and knowing the difference.  You can't control what the HS coach will do, but you can control what TB team he plays on and what events he attends.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

I'm not sure why you are so concerned about HS baseball. My son played HS baseball, enjoyed it, but it did nothing for him in regards to playing at the next level. TB and events like PBR got him a DI scholarship. We had a softball player here who didn't play an inning of HS softball until her Sr year (already had the scholarship) and received a scholarship to Vanderbilt. There's a saying I think applies here about controlling the things you can, accepting the things you can't, and knowing the difference.  You can't control what the HS coach will do, but you can control what TB team he plays on and what events he attends.

Essentially what I said, but with some educated estimates of my own prediction of the diminimus effect of one year of JV high school ball if he's already playing travel ball among peers and is elevated to varsity next year.

If this resonates with you, relax.

Best case your son gets mad, motivated and focused.  For a school like you describe (by the current commitments), a freshman shouldn't be on varsity unless he is a starter.  Otherwise JV.

Several years back at son's school, four "stud" freshman 2020's showed up at tryouts.  The school is a 6-A in Texas, had several D1 commits and had won their district the prior year. Coach took one of the 2020's and made him a varsity starter for entire season.  Left the other three on JV.  JV didn't get the practice field much, had one coach that wasn't all into it, just rolled out a lineup each game (at the behest of the head coach).  Team went four rounds deep in the playoffs. The 2020 position players, as sophomores, started and the pitchers got innings.  Team lost in third round of playoffs.  Last season, the 2020's, now juniors were team leaders.  Along with a stud freshman shortstop and a senior college outfield, we lost in the state finals.  That took winning five 2 out of 3 series to get to state, then a semifinal win to get to the finals.

And this year the 2020's are seniors and we'll see what happens.  Maybe even get to play against Baseballhs this year at state!

Enjoy it, it goes by quick.

Go44dad posted:

Best case your son gets mad, motivated and focused.  For a school like you describe (by the current commitments), a freshman shouldn't be on varsity unless he is a starter.  Otherwise JV.

Several years back at son's school, four "stud" freshman 2020's showed up at tryouts.  The school is a 6-A in Texas, had several D1 commits and had won their district the prior year. Coach took one of the 2020's and made him a varsity starter for entire season.  Left the other three on JV.  JV didn't get the practice field much, had one coach that wasn't all into it, just rolled out a lineup each game (at the behest of the head coach).  Team went four rounds deep in the playoffs. The 2020 position players, as sophomores, started and the pitchers got innings.  Team lost in third round of playoffs.  Last season, the 2020's, now juniors were team leaders.  Along with a stud freshman shortstop and a senior college outfield, we lost in the state finals.  That took winning five 2 out of 3 series to get to state, then a semifinal win to get to the finals.

And this year the 2020's are seniors and we'll see what happens.  Maybe even get to play against Baseballhs this year at state!

Enjoy it, it goes by quick.

Yeah, well BaseballHS will have to get there for that to happen.  And with the talent that has rolled thru Lake Travis HS it boggles my mind that they can’t seem to do it 

OP--Here is the reality of HS baseball:

There are some great HS coaches out there....

There are some great HS programs out there...

There are some truly great HS players out there...

There are some HS coaches who have contacts that can help your player get a scholarship...

There are some HS coaches who are also travel ball coaches in the Summer...

There are some HS coaches who do not allow for their players to play travel ball...

There are some HS coaches who continually strive to educate themselves on the latest training strategies...

There are some HS coaches that can motivate players to give their all each day....

Things that you may not know:

There are some players who get scholarships before they even set foot on a HS field...

There are some players who never play HS baseball and STILL get scholarships...

There are some players who play only 1 or 2 years of HS baseball and still get P5 D1 scholarships...

There are some college and pro scouts....that place little value on HS stats / performance....

There are some Top 100 ranked HS players who never get drafted....

There are some players that get scholarships based on relationships instead of their playing ability..

There are some parents who belive HS baseball is the end all, be all....

The point is "some" is the minority in all of the above statements and is why this forum constantly tells new parents to relax and enjoy HS baseball for what it is. The chances of you finding a Perfect situation in HS is rare!

By the way, both College and Pro Scouts are well aware of the "some" factor!  If these coaches only recruited from perfect situations, there would not be enough players to fill the college and pro rosters!

Also, keep in mind that scouts are looking at individual player’s attributes. Scouts put little value on the HS team’s performance as they are mainly focused on finding players who can contribute at the next level.  

Focus on helping your son become the best athlete he can be....athletes are in high demand and can be spotted a mile away by scouts!

Day 1 of JV practice.  Papa has settled down and son is enjoying the camaraderie as usual.  Baseball has been a series of let downs and I'm always learning to temper expectations. Just like Scott said above i think the large majority of coaches it's a job, they aren't professionals. Such as life. If baseball has taught me one thing it's that it mimics life. Between daddy ball at the younger ages, to money grab at the showcase levels to politics of HS baseball, I'm shocked any of us enjoy this ride.  I dont like roller coasters and often find an excuse not to go on them.  LoL.  A lot of you all said keep working and get you private reps and workouts, that's what is really needed to improve,  and this was never really an issue about that. He would not be where he is today without very hard work. Yesterday was team gym before school,  practice from 4 to 6 and then showcase practice 8 to 10. I know sounds like a lot.  He is off this weekend.   I guess I am most disappointed with the adults in the room not working as hard or caring as much about the kid . They aren't making the most of practices, put kids on teams and in games  that haven't worked as hard but can afford admission,  and tend not to be honest with families about why they aren't playing. Good luck to all you with kids, or coaches with your careers, like I said before I hope to reblog in 4 years with more complaints. 

ConcernedPapa posted:

Day 1 of JV practice.  Papa has settled down and son is enjoying the camaraderie as usual.  Baseball has been a series of let downs and I'm always learning to temper expectations. Just like Scott said above i think the large majority of coaches it's a job, they aren't professionals. Such as life. If baseball has taught me one thing it's that it mimics life. Between daddy ball at the younger ages, to money grab at the showcase levels to politics of HS baseball, I'm shocked any of us enjoy this ride.  I dont like roller coasters and often find an excuse not to go on them.  LoL.  A lot of you all said keep working and get you private reps and workouts, that's what is really needed to improve,  and this was never really an issue about that. He would not be where he is today without very hard work. Yesterday was team gym before school,  practice from 4 to 6 and then showcase practice 8 to 10. I know sounds like a lot.  He is off this weekend.   I guess I am most disappointed with the adults in the room not working as hard or caring as much about the kid . They aren't making the most of practices, put kids on teams and in games  that haven't worked as hard but can afford admission,  and tend not to be honest with families about why they aren't playing. Good luck to all you with kids, or coaches with your careers, like I said before I hope to reblog in 4 years with more complaints. 

I understand your last sentence here "I hope to reblog in 4 years with more complaints" to be tongue in cheek, but I would stress that should anyone's child make it to the college level, nothing more than a vocal armchair qb sitting at home commenting on the status of the program, coaching moves, playing time, etc. can ruin what should be a good time.....when your son graduates and gets a job are you going to comment on the status of his workplace....probably not....in my experience college baseball is closer to professional life than high school baseball and youth sport leagues.

Between daddy ball at the younger ages, to money grab at the showcase levels to politics of HS baseball, I'm shocked any of us enjoy this ride.

If you do your due diligence this stuff typically doesn’t happen. If the player is in the top third of the roster talent at the school this stuff typically doesn’t happen. If it does talent quickly self corrects it.

i had two kids take the journey. Both came into high school playing three sports. Both played college baseball/softball. I never experienced daddy ball with them, they went to all the right recruiting events and one got cut from basketball because the coach didn’t like his players not focused all year. The only two sport varsity basketball players I remember over eight years became pro athletes in their other sport and could have played college basketball. In other words they were too talented for the coach to stick to his “basketball only” stance.

Many parents make the mistake of thinking their kid is getting screwed. Often their kid is in competition with another player. In the coach’s view the other player’s skills will be more helpful to the team effort. At the same time the parent is evaluating their kid’s skills and seeing them at 150% of reality. 

You're not going to enjoy the journey until you get proper perspective. Right now you appear locked and loaded for excuses and blame.

I will say I have never experienced daddy ball with the second two.  I know it exists and have seen it but not with my last two.  I think I learned a few lessons with the first one.  Get out of the local stuff as fast as you can afford and play as high of a level as you can play/afford as fast as you can.  That normally takes care of it.  I will also agree with the top 1/3 of the team does not experience it most of the time factor comes into play.  I tell people all the time don't play on a team that has a daddy as a head coach if you have other options and that solves the daddy ball stuff. 

I may come off as the sadistic dad but imo this is journey of discovery and maturity for the kid. Dealing with unfairness and figuring out how to get past it and thrive will build better character then a string of on field success. 

Father’s coaching isn’t always bad. But it’s a red flag to check out. I organized a very successful 13u to 16u team with four dad coaches. I was the head coach. My son played short at school. He didn’t win the shortstop job on this team. I figured as the most athletic kid he could play wherever position the pitcher came from. None of the coach’s kids got any favors. Our team attracted daddy ball victims. There were other teams like ours I knew weren’t daddy ball problems.

Once at 14u you’re not going to fool kids anymore. They’re getting baseball savvy. They can see BS when it exists. It’s why there’s so much team changeover after 14u. Coach Daddy who can’t coach isn’t fooling anyone anymore 

I wasn’t into raiding teams. But one weekend we had off my son was asked to play for a team with a daddy ball reputation. They were having roster problems. I told my son to spend the weekend selling our team for next year to their best player. 

At 17u dads typically don’t have college contacts unless they’re in the game at some level. When my son was asked to play 17u at sixteen I folded the team.