I don't think any coach we talked to mentioned how many players would be there in the fall. I always saw it as our job to find out what their norm was. But I will admit that my son's mentality was it is my job to earn my spot. If I don't it is not the coach's fault but mine. His job is to give me the opportunity and it is my job to earn it. I don't think freshmen put in the extra time they should. A coach told me recently that most freshmen do not put in the extra work it takes to catch up with the guys that have already gone through it and are there. They think they can just do what they did in high school and compete. In the top programs, for a freshman to compete they have to really be the freak or have to work harder than ever. Many get so caught up in school life and being on their own that they don't put the extra hours in to truly give themselves a chance to be on the field whether that is extra hitting, fielding, lifting, or running. Whatever it is for them.
PitchingFan posted:I don't think any coach we talked to mentioned how many players would be there in the fall. I always saw it as our job to find out what their norm was. But I will admit that my son's mentality was it is my job to earn my spot. If I don't it is not the coach's fault but mine. His job is to give me the opportunity and it is my job to earn it. I don't think freshmen put in the extra time they should. A coach told me recently that most freshmen do not put in the extra work it takes to catch up with the guys that have already gone through it and are there. They think they can just do what they did in high school and compete. In the top programs, for a freshman to compete they have to really be the freak or have to work harder than ever. Many get so caught up in school life and being on their own that they don't put the extra hours in to truly give themselves a chance to be on the field whether that is extra hitting, fielding, lifting, or running. Whatever it is for them.
But how is that possible? Every player who has ever posted a tweet with their commitment has had their parents and travel coaches reply to that tweet with " so proud! no one has ever worked harder than you have for this" or "this is the hardest working player I have ever been around"? Surely that coach is wrong...
LaunchAngle posted:PitchingFan posted:I don't think any coach we talked to mentioned how many players would be there in the fall. I always saw it as our job to find out what their norm was. But I will admit that my son's mentality was it is my job to earn my spot. If I don't it is not the coach's fault but mine. His job is to give me the opportunity and it is my job to earn it. I don't think freshmen put in the extra time they should. A coach told me recently that most freshmen do not put in the extra work it takes to catch up with the guys that have already gone through it and are there. They think they can just do what they did in high school and compete. In the top programs, for a freshman to compete they have to really be the freak or have to work harder than ever. Many get so caught up in school life and being on their own that they don't put the extra hours in to truly give themselves a chance to be on the field whether that is extra hitting, fielding, lifting, or running. Whatever it is for them.
But how is that possible? Every player who has ever posted a tweet with their commitment has had their parents and travel coaches reply to that tweet with " so proud! no one has ever worked harder than you have for this" or "this is the hardest working player I have ever been around"? Surely that coach is wrong...
That’s because nobody tells the truth on social media. It’s a make believe world of ice cream and Easter bunnies. Post the truth and you get ripped.
Not going to like this answer on this board but.....
Rosters above 40 are nothing more than enrollment tools for the college. Enroll here and come be on the baseball team a while. That's it in plain language.
Many D2's are notorious for this. My area Juco's are running 90+ players and this is before the D1 dropdowns come calling after December. Two specific D2's are running at 90 and 110 players respectively. Most midlevel D1 rosters I see for Fall or have kept up with are 45 to 50.
Why? One simple reason. This is a byproduct of the current money ball system of showcases. Many smaller Colleges are using sports of all kinds to boost or entice enrollment numbers. And right now there is no shortage of willing payers lining up for their shot at playing college ball, even if that means 3 or 4 teams worth of players in the program that will never see the field.
Best of luck.
Showball$ posted:Not going to like this answer on this board but.....
Rosters above 40 are nothing more than enrollment tools for the college. Enroll here and come be on the baseball team a while. That's it in plain language.
Many D2's are notorious for this. My area Juco's are running 90+ players and this is before the D1 dropdowns come calling after December. Two specific D2's are running at 90 and 110 players respectively. Most midlevel D1 rosters I see for Fall or have kept up with are 45 to 50.
Why? One simple reason. This is a byproduct of the current money ball system of showcases. Many smaller Colleges are using sports of all kinds to boost or entice enrollment numbers. And right now there is no shortage of willing payers lining up for their shot at playing college ball, even if that means 3 or 4 teams worth of players in the program that will never see the field.
Best of luck.
There are plenty of massive P5 schools with 40+ on the roster. So while I'm sure there are plenty of schools that recruit for enrollment there is also a trend where coaches are taking more than necessary. Even mid majors. There are plenty of mid majors with enrollment of over 10k that over recruit. A few extra guys on the baseball team aren't going to boost enrollment stats.
I would say every successful P5 had 40 plus this fall and maybe even every P5 has 40 plus. Most have 45 plus. They are not doing it for the money but I understand your thought pattern. There are a lot of smaller schools that do it for the money. The P5's do it to make sure they can put the best team on the field in the spring. I know of a Senior pitcher who was to have a big part in the fall and just blew out his knee Tuesday doing bunt coverage drills. That is why they bring in so many players.
PitchingFan posted:I would say every successful P5 had 40 plus this fall and maybe even every P5 has 40 plus. Most have 45 plus. They are not doing it for the money but I understand your thought pattern. There are a lot of smaller schools that do it for the money. The P5's do it to make sure they can put the best team on the field in the spring. I know of a Senior pitcher who was to have a big part in the fall and just blew out his knee Tuesday doing bunt coverage drills. That is why they bring in so many players.
Can you give examples of those that have 40, 45 plus?
FWIW, to my understanding, some conferences frown on this practice as do administrations.
I checked out 3 very successful teams, from SEC and ACC no where near that. Reliable sources. Another one was in Big 10, at 39.
Thanks
Just at random, looking at posted fall rosters, I see a Big 10 with 44, Big 12 with 43 and 42, ACC with 42.
It looks like people are not big on talking specific teams in this thread so I will be a little more generic with my comment. Heard from a friend (who knows what he is talking about) that 2 extreme examples of #s for the fall are:
An SEC east team that started fall with 70 and a mid major in Ohio started the fall with 34. Yikes to have a kid as 1/70 and yay to have a kid as 1/34!!!
Also was in Fort Worth with my son last weekend and we tried to see a practice of a team in that area that is a powerhouse. Practice was closed to the public that day (wish they would have had that posted somewhere for me to see prior to driving 60 minutes to get there with my son!) but could see some activity thru the fence in bullpen area and thru the outfield fence by the parking lot. Highest # we remember seeing was #48 but could not see all players and only peaked for about 15 minutes.
used2lurk posted:Also was in Fort Worth with my son last weekend and we tried to see a practice of a team in that area that is a powerhouse. Practice was closed to the public that day (wish they would have had that posted somewhere for me to see prior to driving 60 minutes to get there with my son!) but could see some activity thru the fence in bullpen area and thru the outfield fence by the parking lot. Highest # we remember seeing was #48 but could not see all players and only peaked for about 15 minutes.
That particular school is notorious for over recruiting. I’m sure there was at least 48 on the field when you looked but I would bet total is more like 53.
anotherparent posted:Just at random, looking at posted fall rosters, I see a Big 10 with 44, Big 12 with 43 and 42, ACC with 42.
I found an ACC with 42. That program I don't consider successful. Other than that the ones I looked up were within 35 range, some more, some less and top RPI programs. I only looked at ones with fall roster 2019.
SEC program within 35 range, but I didnt see any with 45+.
anotherparent posted:Just at random, looking at posted fall rosters, I see a Big 10 with 44, Big 12 with 43 and 42, ACC with 42.
IMO those numbers represent the norm
I can show you a successful SEC West program with 44 on the 2019 fall roster posted on their website right now. Perennial top 25 team.
TPM posted:I found an ACC with 42. That program I don't consider successful. Other than that the ones I looked up were within 35 range, some more, some less and top RPI programs. I only looked at ones with fall roster 2019.
SEC program within 35 range, but I didnt see any with 45+.
Some of those are not successful at all! But the players who will be cut after the fall, who signed on to play P5 baseball, chose them anyway.
adbono posted:IMO those numbers represent the norm
I'm sure it's the norm. But in the spring, it will have to be 35. That's why I asked about academic vs. athletic scholarships on the other thread, because the ones cut are not the ones on athletic scholarship.
anotherparent posted:TPM posted:I found an ACC with 42. That program I don't consider successful. Other than that the ones I looked up were within 35 range, some more, some less and top RPI programs. I only looked at ones with fall roster 2019.
SEC program within 35 range, but I didnt see any with 45+.
Some of those are not successful at all! But the players who will be cut after the fall, who signed on to play P5 baseball, chose them anyway.
adbono posted:IMO those numbers represent the norm
I'm sure it's the norm. But in the spring, it will have to be 35. That's why I asked about academic vs. athletic scholarships on the other thread, because the ones cut are not the ones on athletic scholarship.
That’s not always true. Scholarship players that don’t perform are often “invited” to leave the program. Even at P5 Conference schools
Thanks, that's what I was asking, but no-one replied on the other thread. But unless they actually leave the school, they still count as one of the 35 for that year, isn't that right? Or if they outright leave school after the fall semester, then they don't count?
anotherparent posted:Thanks, that's what I was asking, but no-one replied on the other thread. But unless they actually leave the school, they still count as one of the 35 for that year, isn't that right? Or if they outright leave school after the fall semester, then they don't count?
That’s correct but they almost always leave
I do feel that, I could be wrong, the majority of coaches stay true to their players who not just perform, but follow team rules, show up for class, contribute positively to the team GPA , show up for practice and instruction on time, considered a good teammate. They will always get more chances than the guy who messes up, with or without scholarship. JMO
This is a very good question to ask during the courting phase of recruitment. Most coaches have reputations to live up too. Others are better at recruiting talent than others. Most successful coaches in the game, know the type of player they want for their program. I really do think that's why you would find big numbers in the fall. You just invite a bunch of guys and go from there.
I wouldn't want my player to play for someone like that.
Sometimes the churn you don't see on the differences between the fall/spring rosters can be difficult to navigate as well.... Here is an example of a prominent program with no fall roster posted that also does not release their signing class info..but from their 2019 spring roster and their PG committed player list and other sources you can ascertain that there will be a tremendous amount of current player/committed player churn..
Post MLB draft signing - 29 returning players - SR -7 JR - 8 So -14
1 known upper class transfer out = 28
15 players committed (incoming Fr)= 43
6 juco transfers in = 49
1 other transfer = 50
Likely from the 2019 Fr class and incoming 2020 freshman class of 29 total players - only 14 or so will be on the spring 2020 roster...so roughly 50% of 2 consecutive recruiting classes will be headed elsewhere after 1 year or never making it to campus...this is fast becoming the model for quickest path to D1 baseball success...
In reality, there are always about 25 players returning or transferring in to a program on the Fall roster who are a lock to be on the final Spring roster. So really it is a competition for those final 10 spots that is what those on the margin need to be worried about. The teams with about 40-45 on the Fall roster will sort through that list and some players will be hurt and be Redshirted, some incoming Frosh will be redshirted to allow for some growth and development, and then the rest will cut or will be encouraged to quit if they did not figure it out on their own.
The competition can scare away some kids, but if you look at the really good programs, the roster competition creates a culture of players striving to get better, be accountable, be a supportive teammate, keep your grades up, etc. All of those are solid life lessons to learn, and even if a kid does not survive the cut, he should be better equipped for life after college for having gone through it. Not all competitions are fair, but learning to compete is still a valuable skill to acquire regardless of the end result.
I think most people look at it the wrong way. The problem isn't the quantity of rostered players in the fall, the problem would be that the coach lead a player on to believing he was good enough to being a rostered player when he really had no shot. If we are going to get caught up on whether 38 or 44 is the number that is too many and that is the reason for the cut - then the player in question never had a chance at being part of the 25ish man group that gets regular playing time.
2019 is at a school where there are more than 40. The only guys worried about getting cut are the walk-ons and the upperclassmen who have logged minimal playing time and play a position where younger guys are better. That tells me that the walk ons knew what they were getting into and that the upperclassmen didn't develop like they were supposed to, which is the reason they were recruited. This is where the player and the family have to sit down and really evaluate all the options. If 2 P5 schools offer walk on spots and 10 mid majors offer money that tells me he's a mid major player. If 1 D1 offers a walk-on spot and 6 HA D3 schools offer to push him thru admissions it tells me he's a D3 guy. Unless there is money attached the investment is only as strong as the fall performance. The difference between 39 and 42 is small, the difference between "you'll have a chance to make the team" and "we see you competing for a starting spot right away" is the big difference. I understand Juco is different but that is a different animal and truthfully not for everybody.
Respectfully this is the feedback I get from new players who went to compete. No false hopes, no drama, real life guys.......I'm going in with a shot to compete. If I compete well then lets see where this goes, If I compete poorly that's my fault and problem attitude.
None expect to compete poorly, but some will by definition.
Actual Reality? How does one compete on a 60+player roster? Or even a 50 player roster? When you as a whole group of newcomers are not scheduled for intersquads, never get on field bp, only throw back field bullpens while coaches watch intersquads, relegated to the cage, only participate in mass fungo and individuals skills?
The coaches rightly have time for their preferred known 40 players. The other 20, 30, 50! may as well be invisible.
The exact opposite of what they were 'told' when these topics came up in recruiting.
And no this is not just a bad apple college. This is the norm I'm hearing back for my 400 mile area circle.
Showball$ posted:Respectfully this is the feedback I get from new players who went to compete. No false hopes, no drama, real life guys.......I'm going in with a shot to compete. If I compete well then lets see where this goes, If I compete poorly that's my fault and problem attitude.
None expect to compete poorly, but some will by definition.
Actual Reality? How does one compete on a 60+player roster? Or even a 50 player roster? When you as a whole group of newcomers are not scheduled for intersquads, never get on field bp, only throw back field bullpens while coaches watch intersquads, relegated to the cage, only participate in mass fungo and individuals skills?
The coaches rightly have time for their preferred known 40 players. The other 20, 30, 50! may as well be invisible.
The exact opposite of what they were 'told' when these topics came up in recruiting.
And no this is not just a bad apple college. This is the norm I'm hearing back for my 400 mile area circle.
I agree with Showball. This has been discussed many times on this board. In my view, recruited and preferred walk-on players are not afraid of competition and understand they have to work hard and perform and beat out some other players. But if there are 50 - or in some instances 60 plus - players on the Fall roster (including 25 - 30 POs!!!), common sense dictates that not everyone can or will get a real look or chance. It's just the reality of time constraints and logistics. And if the HC was not straightforward about how many players are in the "program" (i.e., Fall roster) and/or lead some recruits on in order to induce them to enroll where they wouldn't otherwise, and where there is not a real chance to make the roster, that is just plain wrong and frankly unethical IMO.
This applies more to DII and DIII I'm sure. But it seems like this is happening more than one would think. That's a shame as we are talking about an important part of a young person's life here. Many on this board would say "caveat emptor" - do your homework and due diligence about Fall roster size, etc. to vet what the HC is telling you. But realize we're dealing with young people chasing a dream, and often parents with no experience about baseball recruiting. Ignorance is not an excuse but let's be honest, the HC has all the information and power. Fall roster size is not always public knowledge or easy to find and it is difficult or impossible to determine the number of JUCO transfers, etc. Best bet is to go where you're loved and receive baseball $$ but not everyone knows that and may take the coach at his word when he says you will be given a chance to earn a roster spot.
I come down on the side of "labor" on this issue LoL!
adbono posted:The wild card in D1 recruiting classes has historically been the number of JuCo transfers. Until recently those numbers weren’t tracked very well. Last year a young guy named Noah Sharp started publishing the JuCo Baseball Blog (JBB). There is a lot of useful info on his site & he does a pretty good job promoting and tracking JuCo baseball - including keeping up with commitments & recruiting classes. In June 2019 he complied a list of the top recruiting classes for JuCo players and it showed the number of players coming in to these 4 year schools for fall 2019. Here are some of the worst offenders: U La La : 11. Akron : 23. TCU : 10. W Ky : 10. New Mexico: 18. Middle Tenn : 20 S Alabama: 12. Ark-LR : 12. Abilene Christian: 13. Lamar : 12. SFA : 10. The thing they have in common is that they almost all mid-majors. Mid-majors love JuCo guys. They are tough and they are proven - and your 18 yr old freshman is very rarely gonna take playing time away from them. I had a conversation with a long time MLB scout yesterday who told me he tells every kid that isn’t draftable to go to Junior College. I tell kids the same thing - because it’s a more likely path to success. The problem is that not enough people listen.
PS : comments above apply to players aspiring to play D1 & D2 baseball. D3 is a different deal entirely as JuCo transfers have minimal impact on most rosters.
I understand why Akron has so many. Akron is restarting their program.
https://www.baseballamerica.co...re-baseball-program/
"Akron’s biggest cost savings will come in the area of scholarships. Any athletic scholarships for baseball or lacrosse players will be funded privately and not by the university. The program will operate on a frugal budget and take advantage of donations and other cost-saving opportunities. "
There program starts again in 2020. So to be competitive they probably need a lot of Juco's players. Those number will probably go down in the future.
PitchingFan posted:I don't think any coach we talked to mentioned how many players would be there in the fall. I always saw it as our job to find out what their norm was. But I will admit that my son's mentality was it is my job to earn my spot. If I don't it is not the coach's fault but mine. His job is to give me the opportunity and it is my job to earn it. I don't think freshmen put in the extra time they should. A coach told me recently that most freshmen do not put in the extra work it takes to catch up with the guys that have already gone through it and are there. They think they can just do what they did in high school and compete. In the top programs, for a freshman to compete they have to really be the freak or have to work harder than ever. Many get so caught up in school life and being on their own that they don't put the extra hours in to truly give themselves a chance to be on the field whether that is extra hitting, fielding, lifting, or running. Whatever it is for them.
^^^ this.
Even at D3 many knowledgeable people told him to show up on Campus in the best shape of his life. That he would be competing with grown men, and he should be prepared.
Do a lot of conditioning. You don't want to be among the Freshmen that are sucking wind and cannot keep up during the first weeks conditioning. He was told it looks real good if he comes in and is keeping up with the upper class-men.
And more important, Do not slack off in the fall and winter breaks. You need to come in in the spring and meet the conditioning requirements, so you can start practicing right away. Before you can practice in the spring you need to pass the conditioning drills. This puts many Freshman behind. It looks really good if you are not one of the freshman sucking wind.
I can show you about half of the SEC with 40 plus. Interestingly the ones that are really over it do not have active rosters. Looked at several ACC teams that are known to have large numbers and they also don't have rosters. Plus I know several at schools that are under the 40 in the sec and acc that have walk-ons and preferred walk-ons that are not listed on their roster. A friend was watching one that has 38 on their fall roster list that had 48 at practice the other day including one we know is a preferred walk-on so you can't go by the rosters that are on their websites. I understand that some do not put preferred walk-ons and especially walk-ons because they are not guaranteed anything. The same way that most do not issue gloves or bats until they finish with fall and only give them to those who make it.
I'm going to try to make the case that to a significant degree large Fall rosters aren't that big of a deal. Let's say 45-50 show up for Fall ball. And lets say half are pitchers. For a position player, that would put him in the mix with 25 other guys. At any given position, how many kids is he competing against? Maybe 4-5 of these guys are catchers? Maybe 8-10 MIF? Maybe 8-10 OF? Maybe a few corner guys? These guys know who they are competing against. They know the one or two or three guys at their position that clearly don't belong, and they know the one or two who look like the guys to beat. So in actuality they are competing against one or two guys for a spot or for playing time. At least this is the way my son sees it (45 showed up for Fall ball on his team).
A wrench in this whole thing is that the best 9 hitters can come from any position and force some unexpected dislocation. But adding extra players to the (bottom of the) roster isn't, in all likelihood, going to change who the best 9 hitters are. It wouldn't matter if 35 guys or 55 guys showed up, the best 9 hitters will end up being the same guys.
adbono posted:anotherparent posted:Thanks, that's what I was asking, but no-one replied on the other thread. But unless they actually leave the school, they still count as one of the 35 for that year, isn't that right? Or if they outright leave school after the fall semester, then they don't count?
That’s correct but they almost always leave
If the kid with a baseball scholarship "voluntarily" leaves the team (doesn't have to leave the school, but probably does 99% of the time), the coach can fill that guy's spot on the 35 man roster. That has to happen before the first game of the spring season. That's a relatively new rule. 2018, I think.
So to anotherparent's original point, the baseball scholarship player has the advantage come cut time when the coach is looking at two guys with similar on-field value. If he likes both kids, and thinks they both could eventually contribute, he's got to let the walk-on kid go.
Edited to remove wrong info about awarding scholarship to replacement player.
Smitty28 posted:I'm going to try to make the case that to a significant degree large Fall rosters aren't that big of a deal. Let's say 45-50 show up for Fall ball. And lets say half are pitchers. For a position player, that would put him in the mix with 25 other guys. At any given position, how many kids is he competing against? Maybe 4-5 of these guys are catchers? Maybe 8-10 MIF? Maybe 8-10 OF? Maybe a few corner guys? These guys know who they are competing against. They know the one or two or three guys at their position that clearly don't belong, and they know the one or two who look like the guys to beat. So in actuality they are competing against one or two guys for a spot or for playing time. At least this is the way my son sees it (45 showed up for Fall ball on his team).
A wrench in this whole thing is that the best 9 hitters can come from any position and force some unexpected dislocation. But adding extra players to the (bottom of the) roster isn't, in all likelihood, going to change who the best 9 hitters are. It wouldn't matter if 35 guys or 55 guys showed up, the best 9 hitters will end up being the same guys.
I don't think you're making the case that this isn't a big deal. You say they know who they're competing against, but that's after showing up in the fall. The guys who aren't going to make the team have wasted time and money by that point. Your odds are just naturally better with a smaller roster.
MidAtlanticDad posted:Smitty28 posted:I'm going to try to make the case that to a significant degree large Fall rosters aren't that big of a deal. Let's say 45-50 show up for Fall ball. And lets say half are pitchers. For a position player, that would put him in the mix with 25 other guys. At any given position, how many kids is he competing against? Maybe 4-5 of these guys are catchers? Maybe 8-10 MIF? Maybe 8-10 OF? Maybe a few corner guys? These guys know who they are competing against. They know the one or two or three guys at their position that clearly don't belong, and they know the one or two who look like the guys to beat. So in actuality they are competing against one or two guys for a spot or for playing time. At least this is the way my son sees it (45 showed up for Fall ball on his team).
A wrench in this whole thing is that the best 9 hitters can come from any position and force some unexpected dislocation. But adding extra players to the (bottom of the) roster isn't, in all likelihood, going to change who the best 9 hitters are. It wouldn't matter if 35 guys or 55 guys showed up, the best 9 hitters will end up being the same guys.
I don't think you're making the case that this isn't a big deal. You say they know who they're competing against, but that's after showing up in the fall. The guys who aren't going to make the team have wasted time and money by that point. Your odds are just naturally better with a smaller roster.
You hit this point on the head .. Most of the Players/parents on the large fall "rosters" were most likely not aware of the complete situation BEFORE they showed up to the school. This was the case in our situation. Of course we got an overall idea by following Twitter and PG but not even close to a complete idea of the magnitude of the fall roster. By the time you realize that the roster is going to be huge- you have already enrolled there and are emotionally and financially committed to that program. Hard to switch in August/Sept
I am sure if many of the kids knew the full scope in advance they might have made alternative decisions .
I agree with you guys and disagree with you guys. I don't think anyone who did their due diligence unless it is a new coaching staff shouldn't have known what they were dealing with. I smiled when I read Smitty28's post. I think you should know about how many are showing up in the fall. How do you not go to a fall practice or scrimmage at some point before you commit? How do you not talk to players on the team and previous players for the coaching staff? How do you not look at every article that appears about recruiting at the school? If you are not doing this, then you are not realistic. My son knew before he walked on campus that there would be 40 plus show up for fall and more for walk-on day. He knew he would have to beat out about 20 pitchers to get playing time and that does not count how many he would have to beat out to get to bat as a pitcher. If you don't think you can do that, then you don't need to go there. I tell players all the time, before you get to compete against the other teams on your schedule you have to compete against the guys wearing the same jerseys to get to compete. I don't care if there are 35 or 95. If you belong there, you will be able to compete to earn a spot in the 35. If not, then you don't need to go there. I get so tired of the it's not fair stuff. Life's not fair. If you don't want to compete and earn a spot, then don't commit to play college ball. It is not for everyone. I've never seen a coaching staff go from 35 players in the fall to 50 players in the fall. You should know what you are getting with every staff if you are doing your homework. A coach has a job to bring in the best players he can to compete. I don't think he is obligated to tell you upfront how many he is bringing in unless you ask. If you ask, he should tell you the truth. But if I'm a coach and you ask very many questions about the fall roster I'm probably not bringing you in because you probably aren't the player I'm looking for. My son was told from day one that to compete in the SEC you would have to beat out a lot of SEC level players. Everyone who steps on campus to play at an SEC school is really good.
A very good point made above, If a coach is recruiting you, make sure that your son asks for a tour during their fall practice. This would be especially important if your son has been asked to walk on.
PitchingFan posted:I agree with you guys and disagree with you guys. I don't think anyone who did their due diligence unless it is a new coaching staff shouldn't have known what they were dealing with. I smiled when I read Smitty28's post. I think you should know about how many are showing up in the fall. How do you not go to a fall practice or scrimmage at some point before you commit? How do you not talk to players on the team and previous players for the coaching staff? How do you not look at every article that appears about recruiting at the school? If you are not doing this, then you are not realistic. My son knew before he walked on campus that there would be 40 plus show up for fall and more for walk-on day. He knew he would have to beat out about 20 pitchers to get playing time and that does not count how many he would have to beat out to get to bat as a pitcher. If you don't think you can do that, then you don't need to go there. I tell players all the time, before you get to compete against the other teams on your schedule you have to compete against the guys wearing the same jerseys to get to compete. I don't care if there are 35 or 95. If you belong there, you will be able to compete to earn a spot in the 35. If not, then you don't need to go there. I get so tired of the it's not fair stuff. Life's not fair. If you don't want to compete and earn a spot, then don't commit to play college ball. It is not for everyone. I've never seen a coaching staff go from 35 players in the fall to 50 players in the fall. You should know what you are getting with every staff if you are doing your homework. A coach has a job to bring in the best players he can to compete. I don't think he is obligated to tell you upfront how many he is bringing in unless you ask. If you ask, he should tell you the truth. But if I'm a coach and you ask very many questions about the fall roster I'm probably not bringing you in because you probably aren't the player I'm looking for. My son was told from day one that to compete in the SEC you would have to beat out a lot of SEC level players. Everyone who steps on campus to play at an SEC school is really good.
I agree with all of this. The point is to make people aware of the right questions and considerations to ask a coaching staff when they are considering a school. They need to do their proper due diligence when considering sending their child to a school that could shape their adult life.
to add to the point further,after just reading the 3 things parents shouldn't do article on another thread, is that the player should be the one asking the majority of the questions .
at the end of the day it is up to the player to do all he can to make the team regardless if there is 35 or 80 or whatever.
I guess in our case we had a some new coaching staff who told us there was 45 ish last year on our tour and we counted at the fall practice we saw. . When son got there it was around 60. no biggie..
Ask the right questions and kids have to overcome adversity,compete and in the end they will be stronger for it
We just went to a scrimmage at my son's future school. P5 with 50 on the roster. The bottom line is that it is going to be competitive and he's going to have to earn his spot. I feel like we knew this going in. Doesn't mean it won't be stressful.
Is your player on scholarship?
TPM posted:Is your player on scholarship?
I’m certain that he is. But with 18 2020 HS commits (9 of which are pitchers) and another 10 JuCo transfers (some of which will be on scholarship), it’s not hard to see the writing on the wall. More than a few scholarship players will be “invited” to find another place to play after one semester in Cow Town.
He will be. Signs next month. I think anyone going in thinking there isn’t competition is fooling themselves. We have our eyes open.
"The bottom line is that it is going to be competitive and he's going to have to earn his spot. I feel like we knew this going in."
That may not be the point? I would hope everybody expects competition, whether 35, or 50, or 60, 0r 97.
But at some roster size there is no competition to be had, because time, space and staff cant deal with X number of players over a certain level. What if that school can't effectively deal with 50/60/90 and arbitrarily relegates 15 to 30 to the side fields? Scholarship be damned, just as a unsaid policy for all new players incoming. For no other reason that the 'extras' don't fit on the field in the time slots allowed.
At what point does roster size affect the opportunity to actually compete?
I say its 45 and above.
I agree 100% with the above. Fall is the time that the coaches are giving instruction, you can't have effective practices without effective instruction. You cant compete unless you have been given the tools to compete.
Maybe that is why many programs with big fall numbers fall short of their goals. I dont know, just throwing that out there.
I will go with anywhere between 35-40.