We got back from dropping of Freshman RHP to first year of College.
Had a great trip driving out , getting the dorm situated and my son on track for first day of classes today.
My question is this...
What is typical amount of players you have seen at the start of fall practice for various school rankings?
-D1 p5
-D1 mids
-D1 lower
D2
D3
thanks , just looking for others experiences regarding this.
My son's mid D1 seems to have a lot of players ..55 ish 
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61 players on fall roster at Cisco College (TX) which is a D1 JuCo in NJCAA Region 5. Cisco almost always Fields a really good team in the toughest JuCo Conference in America. But 61 kids? Really?? How many of those kids knew there would be 60 other players there when they committed? Better do your homework! All of those kids are going home at end of fall semester but at least 20 won’t be going back in the spring. Over-recruiting is rampant at many D3 & NAIA schools also. An NAIA HC recently told me he has over 100 kids in his program. He kids a financial incentive for all he brings in over a certain threshold (80 - I think). Better do your homework people. Many, many schools are using athletic “walk on roster spots” as a way to bolster tuition income. At these schools the only opportunity the walk on kids get is the opportunity to pay for school.
I don't know that there is a typical amount at D1 schools l It is largely dependent on the coach's philosophy regarding walk-ons, development, etc.
I would add it is tough to know how many each school has because many do not put out a fall roster so unless you go look for yourself or talk to a player there is very little way to know. Coaches have different philosophies. Some say I'm gonna give as many kids as want a chance to earn a spot but I know going in that X number are not up for grabs because those kids have proven they can play. Others say I have only 2-5 slots open and I'm gonna bring in a limited number to fill those slots of kids I think can help me.
As has been said, NAIA and D3 are notorious as a group for bringing in a lot of kids in the fall because they get part of their salaries for how many they have. If you are wondering, you better go look for yourself in the fall. Not a good time if you are one of the ones who is told in December that there is no room for you in the inn.
55 at a D1? I've never heard of anything close to that number. I think upper 30's is about the most I've seen a D1 team have in the fall, but I'm sure there may be some that have more...but 55 seems ridiculous. Did you son have any idea that they would have that many?
As far as Juco's, D3's, etc. Upper 50's, low 60's and even more isn't uncommon. Keep in mind, those kids are money makers for the school, and if they are willing to come in, even if it's only 1 semester, that's a large chuck of $$$ for the school. My son is a first year volunteer assistant at an NAIA school. I know in the past they have had 80+ in the fall....and end up in the upper 50's, low 60's by spring (they play a full JV schedule). They get a lot of international kids....who ultimately decide that the states (and winter) isn't for them
"All of those kids are going home at the end of the fall semester but at least 20 won’t be going back in the spring."
Let's say you get cut after the Fall? What do you do? Besides throw in the proverbial towel. What has happened for our experienced commentators?
Yeah I thought 55 was a ton too! Program is rebuilding and we thought we would have low mid 40's.. but it appears that they have a ton of Juco transfers that have far exceeded the "whatever typical amount of Juco transfer's " is.
There are only a few spots that are not up for grabs, maybe like 3 or 4 - the remaining 30 or so rosters spots are pretty much up for grabs. I know that this isn't typical and you could feel the nervous energy in the freshman's faces when I was there. But the good news is- if they work hard and do well, they will earn a spot. There will be no waiting behind upper classman . Freshman will have a decent shot at starting for position players and getting innings as a pitcher. Cather is up for grabs, SS, 1b, 3b even Friday starter..
still- it seems like a lot. I am sure the upper classman were astonished as well. A lot of Plan B's will need to be formulated.
Son's experience with a strong D2 is typically about 40 in the Fall, with usually 1-2 cuts and 3-5 Freshman are tagged for Redshirt (RS) year. And RS is legitimate with many of the kids who RS as Freshman contributing in later years.
Hard to believe any good comes from rosters of 50+ at any level. It is hard enough for many players on 35 man rosters to get their ABs and innings--there must be little hope for so many kids who have to put in the work and time commitment to be on the team with these huge rosters.
fishnsail posted:Yeah I thought 55 was a ton too! Program is rebuilding and we thought we would have low mid 40's.. but it appears that they have a ton of Juco transfers that have far exceeded the "whatever typical amount of Juco transfer's " is.
There are only a few spots that are not up for grabs, maybe like 3 or 4 - the remaining 30 or so rosters spots are pretty much up for grabs. I know that this isn't typical and you could feel the nervous energy in the freshman's faces when I was there. But the good news is- if they work hard and do well, they will earn a spot. There will be no waiting behind upper classman . Freshman will have a decent shot at starting for position players and getting innings as a pitcher. Cather is up for grabs, SS, 1b, 3b even Friday starter..
still- it seems like a lot. I am sure the upper classman were astonished as well. A lot of Plan B's will need to be formulated.
Wow, sounds like an awful situation. I would caution your "freshman will have a decent shot at starting for position players" comment, especially because you mention a ton of Juco transfers. It's tough enough for a freshman to earn playing time....throw in a bunch of guys 2 or 3 years older and that "tough" just got even tougher. Juco guys being brought into D1's are typically "D1 guys" that didn't go D1 out of HS, for many different reasons. Now those guys have a year or two of college experience....and are showing up expecting to contribute. D1's don't bring in Juco guys unless they expect them to contribute and play right away. They don't bring them in to "fill roster spots". Good luck to your son....hopefully things work out well.
JUCO guys are brought in to contribute right away. They've also been training 5-7+ hours a day for 2 years straight. Pretty tough for most college freshman to compete in that atmosphere. D1 Fall Ball for most college freshman is brutal. D1 Fall Ball for most JUCO guys is a nice easy day.
Backstop22 posted:Son's experience with a strong D2 is typically about 40 in the Fall, with usually 1-2 cuts and 3-5 Freshman are tagged for Redshirt (RS) year. And RS is legitimate with many of the kids who RS as Freshman contributing in later years.
Hard to believe any good comes from rosters of 50+ at any level. It is hard enough for many players on 35 man rosters to get their ABs and innings--there must be little hope for so many kids who have to put in the work and time commitment to be on the team with these huge rosters.
I agree. It's tough on these young men who work hard only to sit all season or be "cut", at least in part because of the numbers game. I suspect some coaches say, why does roster size or number of Fall invitees matter? What, are you afraid of competition? Of course not. But to me that is not exactly a fair point -- when you get over 50 players, can the Coaches truly assess everyone adequately and fairly? In any case where there are cuts, there is a risk that some favoritism or inequality of opportunity could come into play. It's just human nature and unavoidable. If the invited/walk on/preferred walk on player is advised of what the numbers are and goes in with his eyes open, that is one thing. But it seems there are many instances of the Coach not exactly giving full disclosure. I would hope a Coach would not encourage a recruit to enroll to meet quotas or to earn a bonus but apparently that does happen. I agree that due diligence is essential - but as other posters have stated, this information is not always publicly available, and even if you ask the Coach directly (which can be difficult to do) or other players, you may not get the whole truth.
This Board could be useful to report this type of information, but understandably folks are hesitant to report "private" information on a public forum, even with a screen name and the person reporting could be unrealistic or have an axe to grind, which renders some of the information useless. The power of information is with the HC and hopefully he or she is acting fairly. The player has to go in with his eyes open, control what he can control and hope for the best!
Son got his eyes opened when he showed up for practice for the D2 JuCo he was recruited to. First day there were 55 or so. Throughout most of the fall season, there were 50 or so on average. A few had quit within a week or so.
Some asked the coach if there would be cuts. His response was he usually didn't have to. By spring opening day the roster was down to about 35. The rest either quit due to grades, disillusionment or injury. There were a few "red shirted." By the end of the season the active roster was down to 28 due to some more injuries and a few that quit due to very little playing time.
By contrast the coach of the D2 university that recruited him, only had 28 or so to begin the season. He did not feel the need to over recruit. There were a few that were dropped due to injury (usually red shirted) and maybe one or two due to grades. They still had at least 25 or so actively on the team by end of season.
So just to update on Frosh Son's situation. They had the first official meeting and it appears there are about 26/27 returnees and 27/28 combo frosh and transfers (50/50 split between the newbies).
Looks like it is going to be a interesting fall, as they also hired a Drill sergeant for workouts , lol,which start immediately. Son is a little nervous about the situation but I have confidence in him as he has worked his whole life for this. Just had the first phone pep talk of many I am sure.
I will keep updating this thread as the fall progresses through all the ups and downs..
thank you all for your support!
An update on Frosh son and Team, One month in for his Mid D1
A few kids quit and left and now they are down to 53ish ...
Workouts have been tough. He usually gets up at 4:50 to get there at 5:30 five days a week. Then he gets back around 7 ,showers and eats Breakfast then goes to his first classes which start at 8 M,W,F and 9 T,Th. His classes are done by noon. He will eat lunch after that then heads to the field for practice or bullpens.
On Saturdays they have to help out at the schools Home football games. Then Sat night there may be a party or two which he says he is the designated driver(hmmm)
He came to School 6'3" and 175 and today he is 182lbs and its all muscle gain (per him). They have him on a 5000 calorie diet, a lot of eggs and protein.
They started Intra squad scrimmages this past weekend. He pitched 1 inning(first inn since july) , did OK ,couple walks a couple errors, 1 weak hit but is figuring things out. He said velo was down a little but offspeed was working well. spoke to to his pitching coach back home soon after. they spoke and he gave him a fix for his next bullpen..and to bring the velo and his typical control back.
He saw the 25 or so other kids pitch too.. He says that it looks wide open for spots.
Word is there may be some cuts this week (thank god) .
I will update the progress..
thank you
I think my son has 41 in fall. A few are hurt so really close to the 35 already. Son has gotten 2 innings in scrimmage last week and pitched as always 2 K's, 1 hit, no walks and will get 1 today and should get 1 Saturday in Scrimmage with Clemson. He has gotten 1 at bat and was on deck in another scrimmage. Probably earned a little respect and maybe more at bats yesterday as he hit 3 of 20 pitches out and 1 was really deep. Has never worked so hard at his batting as he has in the past 3 months. It has always come easy but as a pitcher trying to earn a spot on a P5 hitting lineup he has had to put in about 2 hours a day extra and many days by himself because it is after his pitching workouts when the other hitters are already gone.
PitchingFan posted:I think my son has 41 in fall. A few are hurt so really close to the 35 already. Son has gotten 2 innings in scrimmage last week and pitched as always 2 K's, 1 hit, no walks and will get 1 today and should get 1 Saturday in Scrimmage with Clemson. He has gotten 1 at bat and was on deck in another scrimmage. Probably earned a little respect and maybe more at bats yesterday as he hit 3 of 20 pitches out and 1 was really deep. Has never worked so hard at his batting as he has in the past 3 months. It has always come easy but as a pitcher trying to earn a spot on a P5 hitting lineup he has had to put in about 2 hours a day extra and many days by himself because it is after his pitching workouts when the other hitters are already gone.
PItchingfan.....my son tried the 2-way thing his freshman year. I've got to tell you it was a grind. I think it effected him on the mound (which was his primary position). Sophomore year he didn't hit...just a PO. Junior year, he went back to DH'ing. He was the closer and they didn't win much so he wasn't throwing much. Senior year, arm injury so he was the every day DH. mid-way thru the year he was hitting .370 before he missed some time due to sickness. Ended up .320. He could have come back to pitching late in the season, but by that time had just decided that the 2-way thing wasn't worth it. He couldn't concentrate on either and it effected him in both positions. He was at a lower level mid-major. Can't imagine what it'd be like doing it at a P5.
For a successful 2-way player, I direct you'll to Mike Ford. Now playing 1B with the Yankees. Was one of the best all-time pitchers in Princeton's history.
I've never seen a harder worker or more ferocious competitor. (When heckled, he would walk over to the heckler [be it the opposing dugout or stands], tell him how he would retire the side, would deliver, and on his way back to the dugout detour back to the heckler.)
He would literally sleep in the locker room so he could get extra reps.
Danny Hultzen was also a very good two way player at UVA, but was drafted as a P and while it took him 9 years and several injuries/surgeries, is finally a P for the Cubs.
My son was at a D-1 Mid Major for 2 years and they had 40-43 in the fall both years. Last year he transferred to a D2 Juco and they had over 70 for the fall. Pretty sure that was done to make some money as they had to pay for t-shirts and hats in he fall. This year he at a P5 and they have 38 on their roster. When he was still in HS, his travel team played at an SEC school and before he played his game, the team was scrimmaging. They had 53 guys in uniform that day.
I just wanted to post an update as maybe this can help other players or parents or both.
We visited our Freshman Son last week at school. We were quite happy to see him. He is a super good kid that everyone likes..A real good Egg.. The previous few weeks he has been doing well in Academics ,good at getting on with a new busy routine and making friends and doing Ok in baseball. What does OK mean? It's probably Borderline at best as you they have 53 kids fighting for 35 roster spots and 27 travel spots with about 15-18 JUCO transfers...on a mid D1
When we visited him you could tell he was off. His mind was on his girlfriend who is at another school far away(who also visited him a few weeks earlier). He seemed nervous and worried about his "making the team" and was often focused on his phone rather than us or the task at hand. He didn't seem himself. He was focused on how he doesnt like the area where the school is and the town its in and looking at all the negative side instead of the positive side.
And there are always positive sides. He is healthy, He is smart, He is Free.. I can go on and on.
It is true that the only reason he picked this school was for baseball and the coaches and he would of never went there if it wasnt for that. I just want to highlight that. He seemed like he would be "loved" there and he has some ties to the staff but , in the end, he probably would of stayed more local if he had a better deal closer to home and "if" he knew there would be almost 60 kids at the start of fall ball..
We saw him pitch while we were there where he did well for 2 innings and then "not so well" in the third. Same thing happened this week. 2 good innings and roughed up in the 3rd.
He looked off to me on the mound. After a great dominant summer + working out heavy for the first time we thought he would have a great fall . Instead it appeared he was a bit lost and not smooth. Command was off. etc.. He isn't hurt so we can rule that out.
maybe its the workouts, maybe its eating 5k cals a day to put on weight , maybe it is his girlfriend, maybe its being homesick, maybe it is a combo of all of the above.
When we left we really tried to accent the positive and good things but realized that a Plan B or C may have to be implemented.
maybe it wasn't the right fit in the first place. maybe it still is. Maybe in the next 2 weeks he will turn it around and find himself.
Adversity is a strength builder. Happiness is key.
So that is where he is right now. It is tough for us and tougher for him I am sure. I know that if he gets redshirted he probably will not stay . It may be time to start looking into this portal thing, or a temporary juco or both. Maybe that was the Universe or God's plan all along for him. Not to go the easy route. Things are rarely easy. Of course there are the gifted athletes, the "Freaks" as I call them. They will make all the teams no matter what. It is the other 90-95% that have to have it in them ..to work hard.... to have it in their heart..to overcome adversity.
I just wanted to put this out for all the players and parents who are in HS right now and looking for schools.
You need to ask yourself.. "Is baseball the only reason I am going to this school"? If your answer is mostly yes then maybe it might not be the correct fit.
best of luck to all of you. Have a great weekend
Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. - Michael Jordan
fishnsail posted:I just wanted to post an update as maybe this can help other players or parents or both.
We visited our Freshman Son last week at school. We were quite happy to see him. He is a super good kid that everyone likes..A real good Egg.. The previous few weeks he has been doing well in Academics ,good at getting on with a new busy routine and making friends and doing Ok in baseball. What does OK mean? It's probably Borderline at best as you they have 53 kids fighting for 35 roster spots and 27 travel spots with about 15-18 JUCO transfers...on a mid D1
When we visited him you could tell he was off. His mind was on his girlfriend who is at another school far away(who also visited him a few weeks earlier). He seemed nervous and worried about his "making the team" and was often focused on his phone rather than us or the task at hand. He didn't seem himself. He was focused on how he doesnt like the area where the school is and the town its in and looking at all the negative side instead of the positive side.
And there are always positive sides. He is healthy, He is smart, He is Free.. I can go on and on.
It is true that the only reason he picked this school was for baseball and the coaches and he would of never went there if it wasnt for that. I just want to highlight that. He seemed like he would be "loved" there and he has some ties to the staff but , in the end, he probably would of stayed more local if he had a better deal closer to home and "if" he knew there would be almost 60 kids at the start of fall ball..
We saw him pitch while we were there where he did well for 2 innings and then "not so well" in the third. Same thing happened this week. 2 good innings and roughed up in the 3rd.
He looked off to me on the mound. After a great dominant summer + working out heavy for the first time we thought he would have a great fall . Instead it appeared he was a bit lost and not smooth. Command was off. etc.. He isn't hurt so we can rule that out.
maybe its the workouts, maybe its eating 5k cals a day to put on weight , maybe it is his girlfriend, maybe its being homesick, maybe it is a combo of all of the above.
When we left we really tried to accent the positive and good things but realized that a Plan B or C may have to be implemented.
maybe it wasn't the right fit in the first place. maybe it still is. Maybe in the next 2 weeks he will turn it around and find himself.
Adversity is a strength builder. Happiness is key.
So that is where he is right now. It is tough for us and tougher for him I am sure. I know that if he gets redshirted he probably will not stay . It may be time to start looking into this portal thing, or a temporary juco or both. Maybe that was the Universe or God's plan all along for him. Not to go the easy route. Things are rarely easy. Of course there are the gifted athletes, the "Freaks" as I call them. They will make all the teams no matter what. It is the other 90-95% that have to have it in them ..to work hard.... to have it in their heart..to overcome adversity.
I just wanted to put this out for all the players and parents who are in HS right now and looking for schools.
You need to ask yourself.. "Is baseball the only reason I am going to this school"? If your answer is mostly yes then maybe it might not be the correct fit.
best of luck to all of you. Have a great weekend
Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. - Michael Jordan
Thank you for sharing what I’m sure is a deeply emotional time for your family. I just read your post to my 16yr old as we sat down to make his initial list of schools. You can make a square peg fit in a round hole. But it takes an immense amount of “grinding” and sometimes alters the integrity of the peg. Wishing your son luck in finding his path and, above all else, happiness.
fishnsail posted:I just wanted to post an update as maybe this can help other players or parents or both.
We visited our Freshman Son last week at school. We were quite happy to see him. He is a super good kid that everyone likes..A real good Egg.. The previous few weeks he has been doing well in Academics ,good at getting on with a new busy routine and making friends and doing Ok in baseball. What does OK mean? It's probably Borderline at best as you they have 53 kids fighting for 35 roster spots and 27 travel spots with about 15-18 JUCO transfers...on a mid D1
When we visited him you could tell he was off. His mind was on his girlfriend who is at another school far away(who also visited him a few weeks earlier). He seemed nervous and worried about his "making the team" and was often focused on his phone rather than us or the task at hand. He didn't seem himself. He was focused on how he doesnt like the area where the school is and the town its in and looking at all the negative side instead of the positive side.
And there are always positive sides. He is healthy, He is smart, He is Free.. I can go on and on.
It is true that the only reason he picked this school was for baseball and the coaches and he would of never went there if it wasnt for that. I just want to highlight that. He seemed like he would be "loved" there and he has some ties to the staff but , in the end, he probably would of stayed more local if he had a better deal closer to home and "if" he knew there would be almost 60 kids at the start of fall ball..
We saw him pitch while we were there where he did well for 2 innings and then "not so well" in the third. Same thing happened this week. 2 good innings and roughed up in the 3rd.
He looked off to me on the mound. After a great dominant summer + working out heavy for the first time we thought he would have a great fall . Instead it appeared he was a bit lost and not smooth. Command was off. etc.. He isn't hurt so we can rule that out.
maybe its the workouts, maybe its eating 5k cals a day to put on weight , maybe it is his girlfriend, maybe its being homesick, maybe it is a combo of all of the above.
When we left we really tried to accent the positive and good things but realized that a Plan B or C may have to be implemented.
maybe it wasn't the right fit in the first place. maybe it still is. Maybe in the next 2 weeks he will turn it around and find himself.
Adversity is a strength builder. Happiness is key.
So that is where he is right now. It is tough for us and tougher for him I am sure. I know that if he gets redshirted he probably will not stay . It may be time to start looking into this portal thing, or a temporary juco or both. Maybe that was the Universe or God's plan all along for him. Not to go the easy route. Things are rarely easy. Of course there are the gifted athletes, the "Freaks" as I call them. They will make all the teams no matter what. It is the other 90-95% that have to have it in them ..to work hard.... to have it in their heart..to overcome adversity.
I just wanted to put this out for all the players and parents who are in HS right now and looking for schools.
You need to ask yourself.. "Is baseball the only reason I am going to this school"? If your answer is mostly yes then maybe it might not be the correct fit.
best of luck to all of you. Have a great weekend
Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. - Michael Jordan
I’m curious to know if a fall roster is posted on the baseball website of the school your son is attending. If so, does it show 53 players. I can’t imagine that they are making that information available to the public.
LousyLefty posted:fishnsail posted:I just wanted to post an update as maybe this can help other players or parents or both.
We visited our Freshman Son last week at school. We were quite happy to see him. He is a super good kid that everyone likes..A real good Egg.. The previous few weeks he has been doing well in Academics ,good at getting on with a new busy routine and making friends and doing Ok in baseball. What does OK mean? It's probably Borderline at best as you they have 53 kids fighting for 35 roster spots and 27 travel spots with about 15-18 JUCO transfers...on a mid D1
When we visited him you could tell he was off. His mind was on his girlfriend who is at another school far away(who also visited him a few weeks earlier). He seemed nervous and worried about his "making the team" and was often focused on his phone rather than us or the task at hand. He didn't seem himself. He was focused on how he doesnt like the area where the school is and the town its in and looking at all the negative side instead of the positive side.
And there are always positive sides. He is healthy, He is smart, He is Free.. I can go on and on.
It is true that the only reason he picked this school was for baseball and the coaches and he would of never went there if it wasnt for that. I just want to highlight that. He seemed like he would be "loved" there and he has some ties to the staff but , in the end, he probably would of stayed more local if he had a better deal closer to home and "if" he knew there would be almost 60 kids at the start of fall ball..
We saw him pitch while we were there where he did well for 2 innings and then "not so well" in the third. Same thing happened this week. 2 good innings and roughed up in the 3rd.
He looked off to me on the mound. After a great dominant summer + working out heavy for the first time we thought he would have a great fall . Instead it appeared he was a bit lost and not smooth. Command was off. etc.. He isn't hurt so we can rule that out.
maybe its the workouts, maybe its eating 5k cals a day to put on weight , maybe it is his girlfriend, maybe its being homesick, maybe it is a combo of all of the above.
When we left we really tried to accent the positive and good things but realized that a Plan B or C may have to be implemented.
maybe it wasn't the right fit in the first place. maybe it still is. Maybe in the next 2 weeks he will turn it around and find himself.
Adversity is a strength builder. Happiness is key.
So that is where he is right now. It is tough for us and tougher for him I am sure. I know that if he gets redshirted he probably will not stay . It may be time to start looking into this portal thing, or a temporary juco or both. Maybe that was the Universe or God's plan all along for him. Not to go the easy route. Things are rarely easy. Of course there are the gifted athletes, the "Freaks" as I call them. They will make all the teams no matter what. It is the other 90-95% that have to have it in them ..to work hard.... to have it in their heart..to overcome adversity.
I just wanted to put this out for all the players and parents who are in HS right now and looking for schools.
You need to ask yourself.. "Is baseball the only reason I am going to this school"? If your answer is mostly yes then maybe it might not be the correct fit.
best of luck to all of you. Have a great weekend
Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. - Michael Jordan
Thank you for sharing what I’m sure is a deeply emotional time for your family. I just read your post to my 16yr old as we sat down to make his initial list of schools. You can make a square peg fit in a round hole. But it takes an immense amount of “grinding” and sometimes alters the integrity of the peg. Wishing your son luck in finding his path and, above all else, happiness.
thank you so much for that We really appreciate it
The square peg analogy is pretty spot on...
Best wishes for your son and his baseball career. Enjoy all the HS games ,Travel games, Tournaments and college visits. they are all special in their own way.
adbono posted:fishnsail posted:I just wanted to post an update as maybe this can help other players or parents or both.
We visited our Freshman Son last week at school. We were quite happy to see him. He is a super good kid that everyone likes..A real good Egg.. The previous few weeks he has been doing well in Academics ,good at getting on with a new busy routine and making friends and doing Ok in baseball. What does OK mean? It's probably Borderline at best as you they have 53 kids fighting for 35 roster spots and 27 travel spots with about 15-18 JUCO transfers...on a mid D1
When we visited him you could tell he was off. His mind was on his girlfriend who is at another school far away(who also visited him a few weeks earlier). He seemed nervous and worried about his "making the team" and was often focused on his phone rather than us or the task at hand. He didn't seem himself. He was focused on how he doesnt like the area where the school is and the town its in and looking at all the negative side instead of the positive side.
And there are always positive sides. He is healthy, He is smart, He is Free.. I can go on and on.
It is true that the only reason he picked this school was for baseball and the coaches and he would of never went there if it wasnt for that. I just want to highlight that. He seemed like he would be "loved" there and he has some ties to the staff but , in the end, he probably would of stayed more local if he had a better deal closer to home and "if" he knew there would be almost 60 kids at the start of fall ball..
We saw him pitch while we were there where he did well for 2 innings and then "not so well" in the third. Same thing happened this week. 2 good innings and roughed up in the 3rd.
He looked off to me on the mound. After a great dominant summer + working out heavy for the first time we thought he would have a great fall . Instead it appeared he was a bit lost and not smooth. Command was off. etc.. He isn't hurt so we can rule that out.
maybe its the workouts, maybe its eating 5k cals a day to put on weight , maybe it is his girlfriend, maybe its being homesick, maybe it is a combo of all of the above.
When we left we really tried to accent the positive and good things but realized that a Plan B or C may have to be implemented.
maybe it wasn't the right fit in the first place. maybe it still is. Maybe in the next 2 weeks he will turn it around and find himself.
Adversity is a strength builder. Happiness is key.
So that is where he is right now. It is tough for us and tougher for him I am sure. I know that if he gets redshirted he probably will not stay . It may be time to start looking into this portal thing, or a temporary juco or both. Maybe that was the Universe or God's plan all along for him. Not to go the easy route. Things are rarely easy. Of course there are the gifted athletes, the "Freaks" as I call them. They will make all the teams no matter what. It is the other 90-95% that have to have it in them ..to work hard.... to have it in their heart..to overcome adversity.
I just wanted to put this out for all the players and parents who are in HS right now and looking for schools.
You need to ask yourself.. "Is baseball the only reason I am going to this school"? If your answer is mostly yes then maybe it might not be the correct fit.
best of luck to all of you. Have a great weekend
Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. - Michael Jordan
I’m curious to know if a fall roster is posted on the baseball website of the school your son is attending. If so, does it show 53 players. I can’t imagine that they are making that information available to the public.
There wasn't a fall roster posted on the team site. Everyone was pretty blind sided by it including all the upper classman already on the team. Started out close to 60 players. We heard last year they were in the mid 40's(which is still a lot) and we kind of got the inkling on PG and twitter when we saw all these commits. What we didn't anticipate was the very large amount of transfers. The plus side of this is that everyone had the opportunity to earn a spot this year. There was maybe 1 or 2 guarantees. If you produce , you are playing -no matter if you are a freshman or senior.
Re: the girlfriend
Girls are like curveballs. They alter focus and mess with your mind. The odds of going away to college for four years and maintaining a solid relationship with a girlfriend residing far way is slim to none. Even without the distance people change a lot from eighteen to twenty-two.
RJM posted:Re: the girlfriend
Girls are like curveballs. They alter focus and mess with your mind. The odds of going away to college for four years and maintaining a solid relationship with a girlfriend residing far way is slim to none. Even without the distance people change a lot from eighteen to twenty-two.
Girlfriends are undefeated. They have ended many a baseball career.
I know and know of too many guys from my generation and kids from my son’s generation who left college because they missed their girlfriend’s freshman year. Now home at the local college they broke up with the girl by the end of the year.
Then there’s a guy who heads for college freshman year who expects his incredibly popular senior in high school girlfriend to sit home every weekend pining for him and counting the days until Christmas break.
Fishnsail, your story is a cautionary tale for recruiting. There are many on this site, long-time posters don't seem particularly surprised by it, but new-ish people (like me) are probably shocked. I'm following several of my son's D1 friends, most of whom are on fall rosters of over 40 (although nothing like 53). I am concerned for some of them (fall ball playing time, as per another thread); I've realized that I have no idea whether any of them is on athletic scholarship or not (not something people talk about). Presumably if a program is fully-funded, only 27 could have scholarships, that would mean your son's school persuaded more than 30 players to walk on. That is pretty outrageous.
anotherparent posted:Fishnsail, your story is a cautionary tale for recruiting. There are many on this site, long-time posters don't seem particularly surprised by it, but new-ish people (like me) are probably shocked. I'm following several of my son's D1 friends, most of whom are on fall rosters of over 40 (although nothing like 53). I am concerned for some of them (fall ball playing time, as per another thread); I've realized that I have no idea whether any of them is on athletic scholarship or not (not something people talk about). Presumably if a program is fully-funded, only 27 could have scholarships, that would mean your son's school persuaded more than 30 players to walk on. That is pretty outrageous.
thank you . Yes we are a bit concerned. The not knowing and being on the edge part is a big ordeal for many of the kids, mine included. While you try to visualize going to this school for the duration ,it can be a bit unsettling that your direction can change in a blink. But isnt that how life is?
It is how we deal with the adversity ,challenge and change that hopefully makes us a stronger person.
Of course, at the same time , we hope that he feels like he has a secure home.
I try to imagine myself in everyday life , if my current work or home situation was in limbo.
How would we handle it? and we are much older and more mature with experience.
Put that pressure on a 18 yr old and I am sure that it can be a cause of reflection and second guessing. Combine that with many new responsibilities.
Sink or swim... eventually they all swim..
The wild card in D1 recruiting classes has historically been the number of JuCo transfers. Until recently those numbers weren’t tracked very well. Last year a young guy named Noah Sharp started publishing the JuCo Baseball Blog (JBB). There is a lot of useful info on his site & he does a pretty good job promoting and tracking JuCo baseball - including keeping up with commitments & recruiting classes. In June 2019 he complied a list of the top recruiting classes for JuCo players and it showed the number of players coming in to these 4 year schools for fall 2019. Here are some of the worst offenders: U La La : 11. Akron : 23. TCU : 10. W Ky : 10. New Mexico: 18. Middle Tenn : 20 S Alabama: 12. Ark-LR : 12. Abilene Christian: 13. Lamar : 12. SFA : 10. The thing they have in common is that they almost all mid-majors. Mid-majors love JuCo guys. They are tough and they are proven - and your 18 yr old freshman is very rarely gonna take playing time away from them. I had a conversation with a long time MLB scout yesterday who told me he tells every kid that isn’t draftable to go to Junior College. I tell kids the same thing - because it’s a more likely path to success. The problem is that not enough people listen.
PS : comments above apply to players aspiring to play D1 & D2 baseball. D3 is a different deal entirely as JuCo transfers have minimal impact on most rosters.
I don't think 53 is that far off in today's world. Most D1's have 45 plus which WE don't seem to grasp. I hear all the why would a coach bring in 45 players when he can only keep 35 players. Because they can. They have to make sure they have 35 plus some in reserve. The guy who brings in 35 has injuries and guys quit and leave for other reasons and he ends up with 30.
On the girls issue. I get amazed at the parents who almost push their high schoolers to have a girlfriend. Mine had several girls he liked his senior year and into summer but refused to have a girlfriend because he knew he was going away for college and would not be home until Thanksgiving which has only changed by 1 weekend. WE kept reminding him it is okay to date but don't get serious because those long distance relationships normally don't work.
I will also add one of the benefits for my son is knowing players that are at the school and coming in. He had relationships with players and non-athletes before he arrived. I think that is a huge part is knowing people. It helps take away from the lonely/homesick aspect. It takes a special kind of kid who can go hours away from home and not know anyone at the campus.
Keep us posted FishnSail with how your son is doing. I will offer the perspective of a dad whose kid redshirted and thus far has survived. Some programs use the RS program as a means to develop talent, and with some kids to get stronger, particularly those who come in young (mine was 17). Others use the RS year as a way to help players switch positions (mine went from C to RHP), and of course there are the legitimate injury issues that arise as well. And at the high academic schools that have a hard time finding transfers that meet the admissions requirements, the RS year can help a kid make all of the adjustments of the academic demands before worrying about traveling with the team (RS will still have a heavy time commitment for weights, running, BP, bullpens, etc.).
The "proof is in the pudding" as the saying goes, so you should be able to evaluate the team roster to see how many kids have RS and how many have stayed with the program for multiple years. If there are kids playing who have the R next to the class level, you can go back and see if they RS at that school. So before your son definitively determines that he will not stay if the coach asks him to RS, be sure he considers what the coach's practice has been in the past and if any RS have gotten chances to play in later years.
"So before your son definitively determines that he will not stay if the coach asks him to RS, be sure he considers what the coach's practice has been in the past and if any RS have gotten chances to play in later years."
New to this. A player can tell a coaching staff that they have a commitment to that they will not stay? they can do somewhere else?
You also need to ask what he will get to do as a RS. Some are on an island and others are allowed to do things with team. It is very hard if you have to do everything on your own. Just need to ask.
PitchingFan posted:I don't think 53 is that far off in today's world. Most D1's have 45 plus which WE don't seem to grasp. I hear all the why would a coach bring in 45 players when he can only keep 35 players. Because they can. They have to make sure they have 35 plus some in reserve. The guy who brings in 35 has injuries and guys quit and leave for other reasons and he ends up with 30.
On the girls issue. I get amazed at the parents who almost push their high schoolers to have a girlfriend. Mine had several girls he liked his senior year and into summer but refused to have a girlfriend because he knew he was going away for college and would not be home until Thanksgiving which has only changed by 1 weekend. WE kept reminding him it is okay to date but don't get serious because those long distance relationships normally don't work.
I will also add one of the benefits for my son is knowing players that are at the school and coming in. He had relationships with players and non-athletes before he arrived. I think that is a huge part is knowing people. It helps take away from the lonely/homesick aspect. It takes a special kind of kid who can go hours away from home and not know anyone at the campus.
I agree with all you said - except 53 not being excessive. If you had to establish a norm for fall roster I would put it at 45. I think 53 is ridiculous. JMO
In fairness to Akron on that list, that's a brand new D1 program. It was shut down after 2015 and brought back. I'm not sure what else anyone would expect Sabo to do to be competitive right away. I'm guessing that's an outlier.
uncoach posted:In fairness to Akron on that list, that's a brand new D1 program. It was shut down after 2015 and brought back. I'm not sure what else anyone would expect Sabo to do to be competitive right away. I'm guessing that's an outlier.
Yes, it’s an outlier on that list for sure. If I was Sabo I would have done the same thing. Since we are clarifying, ACU cleaned house and brought in 30 new players out of the 38 that are in fall camp so special circumstances apply there also.
adbono posted:PitchingFan posted:I don't think 53 is that far off in today's world. Most D1's have 45 plus which WE don't seem to grasp. I hear all the why would a coach bring in 45 players when he can only keep 35 players. Because they can. They have to make sure they have 35 plus some in reserve. The guy who brings in 35 has injuries and guys quit and leave for other reasons and he ends up with 30.
On the girls issue. I get amazed at the parents who almost push their high schoolers to have a girlfriend. Mine had several girls he liked his senior year and into summer but refused to have a girlfriend because he knew he was going away for college and would not be home until Thanksgiving which has only changed by 1 weekend. WE kept reminding him it is okay to date but don't get serious because those long distance relationships normally don't work.
I will also add one of the benefits for my son is knowing players that are at the school and coming in. He had relationships with players and non-athletes before he arrived. I think that is a huge part is knowing people. It helps take away from the lonely/homesick aspect. It takes a special kind of kid who can go hours away from home and not know anyone at the campus.
I agree with all you said - except 53 not being excessive. If you had to establish a norm for fall roster I would put it at 45. I think 53 is ridiculous. JMO
Let me clarify. 53 is not ridiculous as the norm but I think it is too many. I think it should be around 40-45. Unless there are extenuating circumstances. I know why the do it but I don't know that I agree with the mentality. It think it depends on how many walk-ons you are allowing in the fall to participate all fall. I am more agreeing with guys who give a large number of walk-ons a chance as long as they are honest with them and tell them upfront that there are X number of walk-ons competing for X number of positions. I think there are still guys who will give it a chance at a P5 to get that chance. But I don't think most people do the work or want to know the answers. They just assume if they are allowed to participate in fall then they will be there in the spring. And then their hearts get broken and they say why didn't the coach tell us this. It is our job as parents and players to know the playing field at each school we are considering. I know some schools will not bring in more than 38 players in the fall. You are pretty much guaranteed a roster position in the spring if invited to fall.Those are the rare ones.
PitchingFan posted:adbono posted:PitchingFan posted:I don't think 53 is that far off in today's world. Most D1's have 45 plus which WE don't seem to grasp. I hear all the why would a coach bring in 45 players when he can only keep 35 players. Because they can. They have to make sure they have 35 plus some in reserve. The guy who brings in 35 has injuries and guys quit and leave for other reasons and he ends up with 30.
On the girls issue. I get amazed at the parents who almost push their high schoolers to have a girlfriend. Mine had several girls he liked his senior year and into summer but refused to have a girlfriend because he knew he was going away for college and would not be home until Thanksgiving which has only changed by 1 weekend. WE kept reminding him it is okay to date but don't get serious because those long distance relationships normally don't work.
I will also add one of the benefits for my son is knowing players that are at the school and coming in. He had relationships with players and non-athletes before he arrived. I think that is a huge part is knowing people. It helps take away from the lonely/homesick aspect. It takes a special kind of kid who can go hours away from home and not know anyone at the campus.
I agree with all you said - except 53 not being excessive. If you had to establish a norm for fall roster I would put it at 45. I think 53 is ridiculous. JMO
Let me clarify. 53 is not ridiculous as the norm but I think it is too many. I think it should be around 40-45. Unless there are extenuating circumstances. I know why the do it but I don't know that I agree with the mentality. It think it depends on how many walk-ons you are allowing in the fall to participate all fall. I am more agreeing with guys who give a large number of walk-ons a chance as long as they are honest with them and tell them upfront that there are X number of walk-ons competing for X number of positions. I think there are still guys who will give it a chance at a P5 to get that chance. But I don't think most people do the work or want to know the answers. They just assume if they are allowed to participate in fall then they will be there in the spring. And then their hearts get broken and they say why didn't the coach tell us this. It is our job as parents and players to know the playing field at each school we are considering. I know some schools will not bring in more than 38 players in the fall. You are pretty much guaranteed a roster position in the spring if invited to fall.Those are the rare ones.
Agree that those are the rare ones, but those are the ones you need to find !
53 is ridiculous if the coach is not sharing that detail with recruits, period! Not sure why this is even being debated.
As for JUCO option, I will share another perspective. My son had multiple offers to play for top JUCO programs while also being recruited to play for several P5 D1 programs. We were told by multiple people that the smart choice was to go JUCO so that he could continue to develop and be a better fit for those D1 programs. The person we trusted most provided a completely different perspective which was "the JUCO's will be there if this does not work out." I understand that it is not ideal to go thru the process of switching schools but that is something that players/parents should determine based on their individual circumstances. Obviously there are a lot of freshmen who choose the 4-year option and find it a good fit while others get their walking papers and end up attending a JUCO any way.
Just my 2 cents.
I don't think any coach we talked to mentioned how many players would be there in the fall. I always saw it as our job to find out what their norm was. But I will admit that my son's mentality was it is my job to earn my spot. If I don't it is not the coach's fault but mine. His job is to give me the opportunity and it is my job to earn it. I don't think freshmen put in the extra time they should. A coach told me recently that most freshmen do not put in the extra work it takes to catch up with the guys that have already gone through it and are there. They think they can just do what they did in high school and compete. In the top programs, for a freshman to compete they have to really be the freak or have to work harder than ever. Many get so caught up in school life and being on their own that they don't put the extra hours in to truly give themselves a chance to be on the field whether that is extra hitting, fielding, lifting, or running. Whatever it is for them.
PitchingFan posted:I don't think any coach we talked to mentioned how many players would be there in the fall. I always saw it as our job to find out what their norm was. But I will admit that my son's mentality was it is my job to earn my spot. If I don't it is not the coach's fault but mine. His job is to give me the opportunity and it is my job to earn it. I don't think freshmen put in the extra time they should. A coach told me recently that most freshmen do not put in the extra work it takes to catch up with the guys that have already gone through it and are there. They think they can just do what they did in high school and compete. In the top programs, for a freshman to compete they have to really be the freak or have to work harder than ever. Many get so caught up in school life and being on their own that they don't put the extra hours in to truly give themselves a chance to be on the field whether that is extra hitting, fielding, lifting, or running. Whatever it is for them.
But how is that possible? Every player who has ever posted a tweet with their commitment has had their parents and travel coaches reply to that tweet with " so proud! no one has ever worked harder than you have for this" or "this is the hardest working player I have ever been around"? Surely that coach is wrong...
LaunchAngle posted:PitchingFan posted:I don't think any coach we talked to mentioned how many players would be there in the fall. I always saw it as our job to find out what their norm was. But I will admit that my son's mentality was it is my job to earn my spot. If I don't it is not the coach's fault but mine. His job is to give me the opportunity and it is my job to earn it. I don't think freshmen put in the extra time they should. A coach told me recently that most freshmen do not put in the extra work it takes to catch up with the guys that have already gone through it and are there. They think they can just do what they did in high school and compete. In the top programs, for a freshman to compete they have to really be the freak or have to work harder than ever. Many get so caught up in school life and being on their own that they don't put the extra hours in to truly give themselves a chance to be on the field whether that is extra hitting, fielding, lifting, or running. Whatever it is for them.
But how is that possible? Every player who has ever posted a tweet with their commitment has had their parents and travel coaches reply to that tweet with " so proud! no one has ever worked harder than you have for this" or "this is the hardest working player I have ever been around"? Surely that coach is wrong...
That’s because nobody tells the truth on social media. It’s a make believe world of ice cream and Easter bunnies. Post the truth and you get ripped.
Not going to like this answer on this board but.....
Rosters above 40 are nothing more than enrollment tools for the college. Enroll here and come be on the baseball team a while. That's it in plain language.
Many D2's are notorious for this. My area Juco's are running 90+ players and this is before the D1 dropdowns come calling after December. Two specific D2's are running at 90 and 110 players respectively. Most midlevel D1 rosters I see for Fall or have kept up with are 45 to 50.
Why? One simple reason. This is a byproduct of the current money ball system of showcases. Many smaller Colleges are using sports of all kinds to boost or entice enrollment numbers. And right now there is no shortage of willing payers lining up for their shot at playing college ball, even if that means 3 or 4 teams worth of players in the program that will never see the field.
Best of luck.
Showball$ posted:Not going to like this answer on this board but.....
Rosters above 40 are nothing more than enrollment tools for the college. Enroll here and come be on the baseball team a while. That's it in plain language.
Many D2's are notorious for this. My area Juco's are running 90+ players and this is before the D1 dropdowns come calling after December. Two specific D2's are running at 90 and 110 players respectively. Most midlevel D1 rosters I see for Fall or have kept up with are 45 to 50.
Why? One simple reason. This is a byproduct of the current money ball system of showcases. Many smaller Colleges are using sports of all kinds to boost or entice enrollment numbers. And right now there is no shortage of willing payers lining up for their shot at playing college ball, even if that means 3 or 4 teams worth of players in the program that will never see the field.
Best of luck.
There are plenty of massive P5 schools with 40+ on the roster. So while I'm sure there are plenty of schools that recruit for enrollment there is also a trend where coaches are taking more than necessary. Even mid majors. There are plenty of mid majors with enrollment of over 10k that over recruit. A few extra guys on the baseball team aren't going to boost enrollment stats.
I would say every successful P5 had 40 plus this fall and maybe even every P5 has 40 plus. Most have 45 plus. They are not doing it for the money but I understand your thought pattern. There are a lot of smaller schools that do it for the money. The P5's do it to make sure they can put the best team on the field in the spring. I know of a Senior pitcher who was to have a big part in the fall and just blew out his knee Tuesday doing bunt coverage drills. That is why they bring in so many players.
PitchingFan posted:I would say every successful P5 had 40 plus this fall and maybe even every P5 has 40 plus. Most have 45 plus. They are not doing it for the money but I understand your thought pattern. There are a lot of smaller schools that do it for the money. The P5's do it to make sure they can put the best team on the field in the spring. I know of a Senior pitcher who was to have a big part in the fall and just blew out his knee Tuesday doing bunt coverage drills. That is why they bring in so many players.
Can you give examples of those that have 40, 45 plus?
FWIW, to my understanding, some conferences frown on this practice as do administrations.
I checked out 3 very successful teams, from SEC and ACC no where near that. Reliable sources. Another one was in Big 10, at 39.
Thanks
Just at random, looking at posted fall rosters, I see a Big 10 with 44, Big 12 with 43 and 42, ACC with 42.
It looks like people are not big on talking specific teams in this thread so I will be a little more generic with my comment. Heard from a friend (who knows what he is talking about) that 2 extreme examples of #s for the fall are:
An SEC east team that started fall with 70 and a mid major in Ohio started the fall with 34. Yikes to have a kid as 1/70 and yay to have a kid as 1/34!!!
Also was in Fort Worth with my son last weekend and we tried to see a practice of a team in that area that is a powerhouse. Practice was closed to the public that day (wish they would have had that posted somewhere for me to see prior to driving 60 minutes to get there with my son!) but could see some activity thru the fence in bullpen area and thru the outfield fence by the parking lot. Highest # we remember seeing was #48 but could not see all players and only peaked for about 15 minutes.
used2lurk posted:Also was in Fort Worth with my son last weekend and we tried to see a practice of a team in that area that is a powerhouse. Practice was closed to the public that day (wish they would have had that posted somewhere for me to see prior to driving 60 minutes to get there with my son!) but could see some activity thru the fence in bullpen area and thru the outfield fence by the parking lot. Highest # we remember seeing was #48 but could not see all players and only peaked for about 15 minutes.
That particular school is notorious for over recruiting. I’m sure there was at least 48 on the field when you looked but I would bet total is more like 53.
anotherparent posted:Just at random, looking at posted fall rosters, I see a Big 10 with 44, Big 12 with 43 and 42, ACC with 42.
I found an ACC with 42. That program I don't consider successful. Other than that the ones I looked up were within 35 range, some more, some less and top RPI programs. I only looked at ones with fall roster 2019.
SEC program within 35 range, but I didnt see any with 45+.
anotherparent posted:Just at random, looking at posted fall rosters, I see a Big 10 with 44, Big 12 with 43 and 42, ACC with 42.
IMO those numbers represent the norm
I can show you a successful SEC West program with 44 on the 2019 fall roster posted on their website right now. Perennial top 25 team.
TPM posted:I found an ACC with 42. That program I don't consider successful. Other than that the ones I looked up were within 35 range, some more, some less and top RPI programs. I only looked at ones with fall roster 2019.
SEC program within 35 range, but I didnt see any with 45+.
Some of those are not successful at all! But the players who will be cut after the fall, who signed on to play P5 baseball, chose them anyway.
adbono posted:IMO those numbers represent the norm
I'm sure it's the norm. But in the spring, it will have to be 35. That's why I asked about academic vs. athletic scholarships on the other thread, because the ones cut are not the ones on athletic scholarship.
anotherparent posted:TPM posted:I found an ACC with 42. That program I don't consider successful. Other than that the ones I looked up were within 35 range, some more, some less and top RPI programs. I only looked at ones with fall roster 2019.
SEC program within 35 range, but I didnt see any with 45+.
Some of those are not successful at all! But the players who will be cut after the fall, who signed on to play P5 baseball, chose them anyway.
adbono posted:IMO those numbers represent the norm
I'm sure it's the norm. But in the spring, it will have to be 35. That's why I asked about academic vs. athletic scholarships on the other thread, because the ones cut are not the ones on athletic scholarship.
That’s not always true. Scholarship players that don’t perform are often “invited” to leave the program. Even at P5 Conference schools
Thanks, that's what I was asking, but no-one replied on the other thread. But unless they actually leave the school, they still count as one of the 35 for that year, isn't that right? Or if they outright leave school after the fall semester, then they don't count?
anotherparent posted:Thanks, that's what I was asking, but no-one replied on the other thread. But unless they actually leave the school, they still count as one of the 35 for that year, isn't that right? Or if they outright leave school after the fall semester, then they don't count?
That’s correct but they almost always leave
I do feel that, I could be wrong, the majority of coaches stay true to their players who not just perform, but follow team rules, show up for class, contribute positively to the team GPA , show up for practice and instruction on time, considered a good teammate. They will always get more chances than the guy who messes up, with or without scholarship. JMO
This is a very good question to ask during the courting phase of recruitment. Most coaches have reputations to live up too. Others are better at recruiting talent than others. Most successful coaches in the game, know the type of player they want for their program. I really do think that's why you would find big numbers in the fall. You just invite a bunch of guys and go from there.
I wouldn't want my player to play for someone like that.
Sometimes the churn you don't see on the differences between the fall/spring rosters can be difficult to navigate as well.... Here is an example of a prominent program with no fall roster posted that also does not release their signing class info..but from their 2019 spring roster and their PG committed player list and other sources you can ascertain that there will be a tremendous amount of current player/committed player churn..
Post MLB draft signing - 29 returning players - SR -7 JR - 8 So -14
1 known upper class transfer out = 28
15 players committed (incoming Fr)= 43
6 juco transfers in = 49
1 other transfer = 50
Likely from the 2019 Fr class and incoming 2020 freshman class of 29 total players - only 14 or so will be on the spring 2020 roster...so roughly 50% of 2 consecutive recruiting classes will be headed elsewhere after 1 year or never making it to campus...this is fast becoming the model for quickest path to D1 baseball success...
In reality, there are always about 25 players returning or transferring in to a program on the Fall roster who are a lock to be on the final Spring roster. So really it is a competition for those final 10 spots that is what those on the margin need to be worried about. The teams with about 40-45 on the Fall roster will sort through that list and some players will be hurt and be Redshirted, some incoming Frosh will be redshirted to allow for some growth and development, and then the rest will cut or will be encouraged to quit if they did not figure it out on their own.
The competition can scare away some kids, but if you look at the really good programs, the roster competition creates a culture of players striving to get better, be accountable, be a supportive teammate, keep your grades up, etc. All of those are solid life lessons to learn, and even if a kid does not survive the cut, he should be better equipped for life after college for having gone through it. Not all competitions are fair, but learning to compete is still a valuable skill to acquire regardless of the end result.
I think most people look at it the wrong way. The problem isn't the quantity of rostered players in the fall, the problem would be that the coach lead a player on to believing he was good enough to being a rostered player when he really had no shot. If we are going to get caught up on whether 38 or 44 is the number that is too many and that is the reason for the cut - then the player in question never had a chance at being part of the 25ish man group that gets regular playing time.
2019 is at a school where there are more than 40. The only guys worried about getting cut are the walk-ons and the upperclassmen who have logged minimal playing time and play a position where younger guys are better. That tells me that the walk ons knew what they were getting into and that the upperclassmen didn't develop like they were supposed to, which is the reason they were recruited. This is where the player and the family have to sit down and really evaluate all the options. If 2 P5 schools offer walk on spots and 10 mid majors offer money that tells me he's a mid major player. If 1 D1 offers a walk-on spot and 6 HA D3 schools offer to push him thru admissions it tells me he's a D3 guy. Unless there is money attached the investment is only as strong as the fall performance. The difference between 39 and 42 is small, the difference between "you'll have a chance to make the team" and "we see you competing for a starting spot right away" is the big difference. I understand Juco is different but that is a different animal and truthfully not for everybody.
Respectfully this is the feedback I get from new players who went to compete. No false hopes, no drama, real life guys.......I'm going in with a shot to compete. If I compete well then lets see where this goes, If I compete poorly that's my fault and problem attitude.
None expect to compete poorly, but some will by definition.
Actual Reality? How does one compete on a 60+player roster? Or even a 50 player roster? When you as a whole group of newcomers are not scheduled for intersquads, never get on field bp, only throw back field bullpens while coaches watch intersquads, relegated to the cage, only participate in mass fungo and individuals skills?
The coaches rightly have time for their preferred known 40 players. The other 20, 30, 50! may as well be invisible.
The exact opposite of what they were 'told' when these topics came up in recruiting.
And no this is not just a bad apple college. This is the norm I'm hearing back for my 400 mile area circle.
Showball$ posted:Respectfully this is the feedback I get from new players who went to compete. No false hopes, no drama, real life guys.......I'm going in with a shot to compete. If I compete well then lets see where this goes, If I compete poorly that's my fault and problem attitude.
None expect to compete poorly, but some will by definition.
Actual Reality? How does one compete on a 60+player roster? Or even a 50 player roster? When you as a whole group of newcomers are not scheduled for intersquads, never get on field bp, only throw back field bullpens while coaches watch intersquads, relegated to the cage, only participate in mass fungo and individuals skills?
The coaches rightly have time for their preferred known 40 players. The other 20, 30, 50! may as well be invisible.
The exact opposite of what they were 'told' when these topics came up in recruiting.
And no this is not just a bad apple college. This is the norm I'm hearing back for my 400 mile area circle.
I agree with Showball. This has been discussed many times on this board. In my view, recruited and preferred walk-on players are not afraid of competition and understand they have to work hard and perform and beat out some other players. But if there are 50 - or in some instances 60 plus - players on the Fall roster (including 25 - 30 POs!!!), common sense dictates that not everyone can or will get a real look or chance. It's just the reality of time constraints and logistics. And if the HC was not straightforward about how many players are in the "program" (i.e., Fall roster) and/or lead some recruits on in order to induce them to enroll where they wouldn't otherwise, and where there is not a real chance to make the roster, that is just plain wrong and frankly unethical IMO.
This applies more to DII and DIII I'm sure. But it seems like this is happening more than one would think. That's a shame as we are talking about an important part of a young person's life here. Many on this board would say "caveat emptor" - do your homework and due diligence about Fall roster size, etc. to vet what the HC is telling you. But realize we're dealing with young people chasing a dream, and often parents with no experience about baseball recruiting. Ignorance is not an excuse but let's be honest, the HC has all the information and power. Fall roster size is not always public knowledge or easy to find and it is difficult or impossible to determine the number of JUCO transfers, etc. Best bet is to go where you're loved and receive baseball $$ but not everyone knows that and may take the coach at his word when he says you will be given a chance to earn a roster spot.
I come down on the side of "labor" on this issue LoL!
adbono posted:The wild card in D1 recruiting classes has historically been the number of JuCo transfers. Until recently those numbers weren’t tracked very well. Last year a young guy named Noah Sharp started publishing the JuCo Baseball Blog (JBB). There is a lot of useful info on his site & he does a pretty good job promoting and tracking JuCo baseball - including keeping up with commitments & recruiting classes. In June 2019 he complied a list of the top recruiting classes for JuCo players and it showed the number of players coming in to these 4 year schools for fall 2019. Here are some of the worst offenders: U La La : 11. Akron : 23. TCU : 10. W Ky : 10. New Mexico: 18. Middle Tenn : 20 S Alabama: 12. Ark-LR : 12. Abilene Christian: 13. Lamar : 12. SFA : 10. The thing they have in common is that they almost all mid-majors. Mid-majors love JuCo guys. They are tough and they are proven - and your 18 yr old freshman is very rarely gonna take playing time away from them. I had a conversation with a long time MLB scout yesterday who told me he tells every kid that isn’t draftable to go to Junior College. I tell kids the same thing - because it’s a more likely path to success. The problem is that not enough people listen.
PS : comments above apply to players aspiring to play D1 & D2 baseball. D3 is a different deal entirely as JuCo transfers have minimal impact on most rosters.
I understand why Akron has so many. Akron is restarting their program.
https://www.baseballamerica.co...re-baseball-program/
"Akron’s biggest cost savings will come in the area of scholarships. Any athletic scholarships for baseball or lacrosse players will be funded privately and not by the university. The program will operate on a frugal budget and take advantage of donations and other cost-saving opportunities. "
There program starts again in 2020. So to be competitive they probably need a lot of Juco's players. Those number will probably go down in the future.
PitchingFan posted:I don't think any coach we talked to mentioned how many players would be there in the fall. I always saw it as our job to find out what their norm was. But I will admit that my son's mentality was it is my job to earn my spot. If I don't it is not the coach's fault but mine. His job is to give me the opportunity and it is my job to earn it. I don't think freshmen put in the extra time they should. A coach told me recently that most freshmen do not put in the extra work it takes to catch up with the guys that have already gone through it and are there. They think they can just do what they did in high school and compete. In the top programs, for a freshman to compete they have to really be the freak or have to work harder than ever. Many get so caught up in school life and being on their own that they don't put the extra hours in to truly give themselves a chance to be on the field whether that is extra hitting, fielding, lifting, or running. Whatever it is for them.
^^^ this.
Even at D3 many knowledgeable people told him to show up on Campus in the best shape of his life. That he would be competing with grown men, and he should be prepared.
Do a lot of conditioning. You don't want to be among the Freshmen that are sucking wind and cannot keep up during the first weeks conditioning. He was told it looks real good if he comes in and is keeping up with the upper class-men.
And more important, Do not slack off in the fall and winter breaks. You need to come in in the spring and meet the conditioning requirements, so you can start practicing right away. Before you can practice in the spring you need to pass the conditioning drills. This puts many Freshman behind. It looks really good if you are not one of the freshman sucking wind.
I can show you about half of the SEC with 40 plus. Interestingly the ones that are really over it do not have active rosters. Looked at several ACC teams that are known to have large numbers and they also don't have rosters. Plus I know several at schools that are under the 40 in the sec and acc that have walk-ons and preferred walk-ons that are not listed on their roster. A friend was watching one that has 38 on their fall roster list that had 48 at practice the other day including one we know is a preferred walk-on so you can't go by the rosters that are on their websites. I understand that some do not put preferred walk-ons and especially walk-ons because they are not guaranteed anything. The same way that most do not issue gloves or bats until they finish with fall and only give them to those who make it.
I'm going to try to make the case that to a significant degree large Fall rosters aren't that big of a deal. Let's say 45-50 show up for Fall ball. And lets say half are pitchers. For a position player, that would put him in the mix with 25 other guys. At any given position, how many kids is he competing against? Maybe 4-5 of these guys are catchers? Maybe 8-10 MIF? Maybe 8-10 OF? Maybe a few corner guys? These guys know who they are competing against. They know the one or two or three guys at their position that clearly don't belong, and they know the one or two who look like the guys to beat. So in actuality they are competing against one or two guys for a spot or for playing time. At least this is the way my son sees it (45 showed up for Fall ball on his team).
A wrench in this whole thing is that the best 9 hitters can come from any position and force some unexpected dislocation. But adding extra players to the (bottom of the) roster isn't, in all likelihood, going to change who the best 9 hitters are. It wouldn't matter if 35 guys or 55 guys showed up, the best 9 hitters will end up being the same guys.
adbono posted:anotherparent posted:Thanks, that's what I was asking, but no-one replied on the other thread. But unless they actually leave the school, they still count as one of the 35 for that year, isn't that right? Or if they outright leave school after the fall semester, then they don't count?
That’s correct but they almost always leave
If the kid with a baseball scholarship "voluntarily" leaves the team (doesn't have to leave the school, but probably does 99% of the time), the coach can fill that guy's spot on the 35 man roster. That has to happen before the first game of the spring season. That's a relatively new rule. 2018, I think.
So to anotherparent's original point, the baseball scholarship player has the advantage come cut time when the coach is looking at two guys with similar on-field value. If he likes both kids, and thinks they both could eventually contribute, he's got to let the walk-on kid go.
Edited to remove wrong info about awarding scholarship to replacement player.
Smitty28 posted:I'm going to try to make the case that to a significant degree large Fall rosters aren't that big of a deal. Let's say 45-50 show up for Fall ball. And lets say half are pitchers. For a position player, that would put him in the mix with 25 other guys. At any given position, how many kids is he competing against? Maybe 4-5 of these guys are catchers? Maybe 8-10 MIF? Maybe 8-10 OF? Maybe a few corner guys? These guys know who they are competing against. They know the one or two or three guys at their position that clearly don't belong, and they know the one or two who look like the guys to beat. So in actuality they are competing against one or two guys for a spot or for playing time. At least this is the way my son sees it (45 showed up for Fall ball on his team).
A wrench in this whole thing is that the best 9 hitters can come from any position and force some unexpected dislocation. But adding extra players to the (bottom of the) roster isn't, in all likelihood, going to change who the best 9 hitters are. It wouldn't matter if 35 guys or 55 guys showed up, the best 9 hitters will end up being the same guys.
I don't think you're making the case that this isn't a big deal. You say they know who they're competing against, but that's after showing up in the fall. The guys who aren't going to make the team have wasted time and money by that point. Your odds are just naturally better with a smaller roster.
MidAtlanticDad posted:Smitty28 posted:I'm going to try to make the case that to a significant degree large Fall rosters aren't that big of a deal. Let's say 45-50 show up for Fall ball. And lets say half are pitchers. For a position player, that would put him in the mix with 25 other guys. At any given position, how many kids is he competing against? Maybe 4-5 of these guys are catchers? Maybe 8-10 MIF? Maybe 8-10 OF? Maybe a few corner guys? These guys know who they are competing against. They know the one or two or three guys at their position that clearly don't belong, and they know the one or two who look like the guys to beat. So in actuality they are competing against one or two guys for a spot or for playing time. At least this is the way my son sees it (45 showed up for Fall ball on his team).
A wrench in this whole thing is that the best 9 hitters can come from any position and force some unexpected dislocation. But adding extra players to the (bottom of the) roster isn't, in all likelihood, going to change who the best 9 hitters are. It wouldn't matter if 35 guys or 55 guys showed up, the best 9 hitters will end up being the same guys.
I don't think you're making the case that this isn't a big deal. You say they know who they're competing against, but that's after showing up in the fall. The guys who aren't going to make the team have wasted time and money by that point. Your odds are just naturally better with a smaller roster.
You hit this point on the head .. Most of the Players/parents on the large fall "rosters" were most likely not aware of the complete situation BEFORE they showed up to the school. This was the case in our situation. Of course we got an overall idea by following Twitter and PG but not even close to a complete idea of the magnitude of the fall roster. By the time you realize that the roster is going to be huge- you have already enrolled there and are emotionally and financially committed to that program. Hard to switch in August/Sept
I am sure if many of the kids knew the full scope in advance they might have made alternative decisions .
I agree with you guys and disagree with you guys. I don't think anyone who did their due diligence unless it is a new coaching staff shouldn't have known what they were dealing with. I smiled when I read Smitty28's post. I think you should know about how many are showing up in the fall. How do you not go to a fall practice or scrimmage at some point before you commit? How do you not talk to players on the team and previous players for the coaching staff? How do you not look at every article that appears about recruiting at the school? If you are not doing this, then you are not realistic. My son knew before he walked on campus that there would be 40 plus show up for fall and more for walk-on day. He knew he would have to beat out about 20 pitchers to get playing time and that does not count how many he would have to beat out to get to bat as a pitcher. If you don't think you can do that, then you don't need to go there. I tell players all the time, before you get to compete against the other teams on your schedule you have to compete against the guys wearing the same jerseys to get to compete. I don't care if there are 35 or 95. If you belong there, you will be able to compete to earn a spot in the 35. If not, then you don't need to go there. I get so tired of the it's not fair stuff. Life's not fair. If you don't want to compete and earn a spot, then don't commit to play college ball. It is not for everyone. I've never seen a coaching staff go from 35 players in the fall to 50 players in the fall. You should know what you are getting with every staff if you are doing your homework. A coach has a job to bring in the best players he can to compete. I don't think he is obligated to tell you upfront how many he is bringing in unless you ask. If you ask, he should tell you the truth. But if I'm a coach and you ask very many questions about the fall roster I'm probably not bringing you in because you probably aren't the player I'm looking for. My son was told from day one that to compete in the SEC you would have to beat out a lot of SEC level players. Everyone who steps on campus to play at an SEC school is really good.
A very good point made above, If a coach is recruiting you, make sure that your son asks for a tour during their fall practice. This would be especially important if your son has been asked to walk on.
PitchingFan posted:I agree with you guys and disagree with you guys. I don't think anyone who did their due diligence unless it is a new coaching staff shouldn't have known what they were dealing with. I smiled when I read Smitty28's post. I think you should know about how many are showing up in the fall. How do you not go to a fall practice or scrimmage at some point before you commit? How do you not talk to players on the team and previous players for the coaching staff? How do you not look at every article that appears about recruiting at the school? If you are not doing this, then you are not realistic. My son knew before he walked on campus that there would be 40 plus show up for fall and more for walk-on day. He knew he would have to beat out about 20 pitchers to get playing time and that does not count how many he would have to beat out to get to bat as a pitcher. If you don't think you can do that, then you don't need to go there. I tell players all the time, before you get to compete against the other teams on your schedule you have to compete against the guys wearing the same jerseys to get to compete. I don't care if there are 35 or 95. If you belong there, you will be able to compete to earn a spot in the 35. If not, then you don't need to go there. I get so tired of the it's not fair stuff. Life's not fair. If you don't want to compete and earn a spot, then don't commit to play college ball. It is not for everyone. I've never seen a coaching staff go from 35 players in the fall to 50 players in the fall. You should know what you are getting with every staff if you are doing your homework. A coach has a job to bring in the best players he can to compete. I don't think he is obligated to tell you upfront how many he is bringing in unless you ask. If you ask, he should tell you the truth. But if I'm a coach and you ask very many questions about the fall roster I'm probably not bringing you in because you probably aren't the player I'm looking for. My son was told from day one that to compete in the SEC you would have to beat out a lot of SEC level players. Everyone who steps on campus to play at an SEC school is really good.
I agree with all of this. The point is to make people aware of the right questions and considerations to ask a coaching staff when they are considering a school. They need to do their proper due diligence when considering sending their child to a school that could shape their adult life.
to add to the point further,after just reading the 3 things parents shouldn't do article on another thread, is that the player should be the one asking the majority of the questions .
at the end of the day it is up to the player to do all he can to make the team regardless if there is 35 or 80 or whatever.
I guess in our case we had a some new coaching staff who told us there was 45 ish last year on our tour and we counted at the fall practice we saw. . When son got there it was around 60. no biggie..
Ask the right questions and kids have to overcome adversity,compete and in the end they will be stronger for it
We just went to a scrimmage at my son's future school. P5 with 50 on the roster. The bottom line is that it is going to be competitive and he's going to have to earn his spot. I feel like we knew this going in. Doesn't mean it won't be stressful.
Is your player on scholarship?
TPM posted:Is your player on scholarship?
I’m certain that he is. But with 18 2020 HS commits (9 of which are pitchers) and another 10 JuCo transfers (some of which will be on scholarship), it’s not hard to see the writing on the wall. More than a few scholarship players will be “invited” to find another place to play after one semester in Cow Town.
He will be. Signs next month. I think anyone going in thinking there isn’t competition is fooling themselves. We have our eyes open.
"The bottom line is that it is going to be competitive and he's going to have to earn his spot. I feel like we knew this going in."
That may not be the point? I would hope everybody expects competition, whether 35, or 50, or 60, 0r 97.
But at some roster size there is no competition to be had, because time, space and staff cant deal with X number of players over a certain level. What if that school can't effectively deal with 50/60/90 and arbitrarily relegates 15 to 30 to the side fields? Scholarship be damned, just as a unsaid policy for all new players incoming. For no other reason that the 'extras' don't fit on the field in the time slots allowed.
At what point does roster size affect the opportunity to actually compete?
I say its 45 and above.
I agree 100% with the above. Fall is the time that the coaches are giving instruction, you can't have effective practices without effective instruction. You cant compete unless you have been given the tools to compete.
Maybe that is why many programs with big fall numbers fall short of their goals. I dont know, just throwing that out there.
I will go with anywhere between 35-40.
Patrick Corbin played JUCO ball...... Son's school has 34 this fall.... won CWS last year.
JUCO is a different animal when compared to kids who go to 4-year schools. By definition, it is a one or two year program with a goal of competing to open a door to finishing up at a 4-year school. Roster spots are a continuous churn of guys moving up or out, other guys dropping down from failures at 4-year schools, and so on. It is much more practical for JUCOs to keep their roster sizes down to a manageable number. And like all levels, the better programs do not need to inflate their rosters because they always can attract top players to their programs.
Again, for those still on the recruiting trek, now is the time many schools are in Fall preseason and many schools do post their "tentative" rosters. Save a copy of those rosters because they will decline by the time Spring season rolls around and they are updated. Look at the kids who are no longer on the list and ask yourself questions about who got cut, such as were they at the school last year and years before, did they play much (check Stats usually archived), how many kids kept are transfers in, and so on. You can get a real read of a program and a coach's methods by looking at the rosters on a regular basis.
EDIT: Thanks Cabbage...autotype is never good for me!
Backstop22 posted:JUCO is a different animal when compared to kids who go to 4-year schools. By definition, it is a one or two year program with a goal of competing to open a door to finishing up at a 4-year school. Roster spots are a continuous churn of guys moving up or out, other guys dropping down from failures at 4-year schools, and so on. It is much more practicable for JUCOs to keep their roster sizes down to a manageable number. And like all levels, the better programs do not need to inflate their rosters because they always can attract top players to their programs.
...
Backstop, that was definitely not our experience here in Calif. Two of the best programs in the state (and ones that I am close to) commonly bring in between 70-95 in the fall. Another pretty solid program that one son played for brought in between 80-90 in the fall the two years he was there. Some cuts are pretty obvious early on but most of the players are typically pretty decent (some HS all-league recognition or better). All of fall is a bloodbath. None of these programs would post rosters until spring, which, BTW, is also when a few additional drop-downs would typically show up.
But then, I didn't know that "practicable" was a real word, so take this with a grain of salt 
It’s hard to make generalizations about JuCos that hold up across the board. High level D1 JuCo programs that make it to Grand Junction can beat the pants off many a D1 mid-major 4 year school. Those JuCo programs are sought after and often bring in big numbers in the fall (60+). Low level D3 JuCo programs would lose to some good HS teams. Those programs are not heavily sought after and would likely never have inflated fall rosters.
Son's NAIA (he is a vol assistant this year) has almost 100. They play Varsity and a full JV schedule with 2 JV teams (at least they have 2 this fall). Their varsity is very good, lots of international kids. The JV guys are almost all from within a 2 state radius. Son said that alot of the JV kids are really there for the school (one of their degree programs is well known worldwide as the place to go if you want to work in that field)....but still just want to play baseball. I went and watched one of their fall JV games. It wasn't awful baseball...at least while the top 9 or 10 guys were in. Pitching was the weakest point by far. He did say they have some guys that probably didn't see much PT in HS, if any at all. I guess as long as the kids know the situation going in, I don't have a problem with it.
bacdorslider posted:Patrick Corbin played JUCO ball...... Son's school has 34 this fall.... won CWS last year.
So Vandy only has 34 total this fall? I heard they had 40 plus at scrimmage the other day. Not questioning you, just what I heard was dressed out. Source may be wrong. I just can't believe they have less than the 35 in fall ball. If so, that is good, I reckon.
They had 21 return from last season, and 14 freshman so 35 but one is a medical redshirt. that's enough...
PitchingFan posted:bacdorslider posted:Patrick Corbin played JUCO ball...... Son's school has 34 this fall.... won CWS last year.
So Vandy only has 34 total this fall? I heard they had 40 plus at scrimmage the other day. Not questioning you, just what I heard was dressed out. Source may be wrong. I just can't believe they have less than the 35 in fall ball. If so, that is good, I reckon.
How do you find out all of this info? Seriously.
I had a friend that took his son to watch them. He said he counted 40 plus in uniform. Maybe his counting skills are off. Maybe he counted coaches. Maybe he counted batboys. I don't know. I was not trying to contradict BACDORSLIDER just saying what I was told. Plus when you look at their picture for their roster it shows 40 so maybe that is what he going off of also. But maybe that is last year's picture on this year's roster page. Their roster like many only has returning players.
PitchingFan posted:I had a friend that took his son to watch them. He said he counted 40 plus in uniform. Maybe his counting skills are off. Maybe he counted coaches. Maybe he counted batboys. I don't know. I was not trying to contradict BACDORSLIDER just saying what I was told. Plus when you look at their picture for their roster it shows 40 so maybe that is what he going off of also. But maybe that is last year's picture on this year's roster page. Their roster like many only has returning players.
Maybe. Maybe.
I think it's really important to get accurate information. This applies to everyone.
The bottom line is that a D1 program is allowed 27 scholarships. Not all fund. So I suppose that one coach can have as many walk ons as he wants, while another coach will not go over 35 players.
TPM, I don't know what you think I am trying to start or alluding to. I just went off what I was told and it was similar to what was on photo. When UT came out for national anthem against Clemson a few weeks ago everybody around us was trying to count and some were off by 5 high and 5 low. I was the only one around me that was right on the number of players.
BACDOSLIDER, I will agree on the transfer out logic. I think it is tough to stay at a school that you are not going to play at for a year. I think you are better off going to a juco and possibly coming back rather than sit out a year. The redshirt rules make it really tough to get better if they are held to by the coaching staff. It is hard to get better as a lone wolf when you can run with a pack. When you look at who Vandy brings in, especially with Rings, they do not have to over recruit. They have a good idea who will be drafted and where and can pretty much get who they want. Not trashing in any way they have earned it, just saying, and that is a good thing for them. UT is trying to change their culture to get to where you guys are and with that he is having to work to find the best and get them early. Many times that is a gamble that they will grow and become the SEC players they need them to be. It is a trial and error situation. I believe Vitello is very good at seeing talent and getting it as he has proven as a RC in the past. To get where you guys are he has to bring in a very different level of talent than in the past. That sometimes will mean bringing in more than he needs and letting the system weed it out but I think he is also willing to give some instate guys a chance that Vandy doesn't do and doesn't need to do, and I understand that also. He is willing to bring in some guys that may not be quite SEC material but is willing to give them a chance to get there. And some them are willing to burn a year and work really hard to earn the right to play in the SEC. Plus they are fighting for the best players in Tennessee every year. The main thing is that the best in Tennessee have to wear either a T or V on their jersey. They cannot let them go out of state.
The one series I wanted to see was UT/V but it seems I have a wedding that weekend so I will miss the entire weekend live. Will have to see it on TV or internet. Good luck to your son this year.
Ironically, if you google "college baseball overrecruiting" you get:
https://community.hsbaseballwe...topic/overrecruiting
That is a 2017 thread in which a bunch of people say their D1 team has 40-45 players in the fall. You can find these threads going way back on here; in one from 2015, TPM specifically says she thinks teams will have 40-50 in a few years!
But, that google search brings up very little else. No-one else talks about this.
If D1 programs said to players, "this NLI/guaranteed roster spot/whatever is NOT a spot on the 35-man roster, but a chance to try out for it," then it would indeed be a buyer-beware, show-up-ready-to-compete, best-man-wins type of situation. But I don't think that's what most people are told.
I think Vitello is on the right track. When he came to UT the place was a mess. He was the RC at Arkansas correct? My oldest played at Tenn Tech when they had a couple of good years. I remember talking to the head coach that is now at Rice and the RC that is now the head coach and even though they bring in a fair amount of JUco guys they did not want to have more than 35-37 in the fall.
Vandy, recruits pretty much who they want knowing they will lose a few to the draft. Last year was an anomaly due to many sr's coming back ... it pushed some freshman out... Vandy is tough place..... I would always try and go to a school where I was going to play as a freshman. If not your out over your skies and the hill is going to be too hard to climb.
Last year Vandy had exp. players with young talent. This year the athleticism and talent is very strong. The top 6 pitchers are 1-2 round guys. The outfield is very good. We had 5 or 6 guys that sat the bench that would have started on any team in the SEC last year.
I will say this , I cannot speak for all the SEC teams, but I have seen a few other teams besides Vandy this fall, and unless I caught them on a bad day, their fall is not likes Vandy's . VU fall is brutal....
I believe it. Vandy right now has a large number of guys that could have gone early rounds or turned down early rounds to stay/go to Vandy. You guys are very tough. Even your freshmen are great players. I think the only way UT can get where I hope they get is to set their sights on Vandy and try to beat them in recruiting and then/also on the field. Vitello is very driven along with the rest of his staff and they want to be the best and in Tennessee to be the best you will definitely have to beat the best, Vandy, as of now.
Story from February 2013. That year our HS varsity was scheduled to "scrimmage" a JC from just west of DFW (right off of 20). Our boys were like "oh crap". Parents were 
. 2-9 inning games. Our starters played the 1st game and subs played the 2nd game. 1st game ended 22-3 us. 2nd game ended 11-9 them. Their bus roll up and about 30 kids got off the bus................and I'm guessing alot of these kids were not the 1st team from the JC. Now the JC was NOT good that season, and we were really good, but I'm guessing that the best players were left at home, and if they were left at home, how many did they really have in the program?
Buyer beware, and always investigate and ask questions.
I know of a D2 in Texas that has 70 on the fall roster. I would think that might be too many 
russinfortworth posted:Story from February 2013. That year our HS varsity was scheduled to "scrimmage" a JC from just west of DFW (right off of 20). Our boys were like "oh crap". Parents were
Buyer beware, and always investigate and ask questions.
If that JuCo was anything like the D2 JuCo my son played for, the number of players for a travel game (away) is limited to what the bus can carry. Son's JuCo only took 25 players to away games out of a 35 man roster. The bus had 28 seats - enough for 25 players and three coaches.
anotherparent posted:Ironically, if you google "college baseball overrecruiting" you get:
https://community.hsbaseballwe...topic/overrecruiting
That is a 2017 thread in which a bunch of people say their D1 team has 40-45 players in the fall. You can find these threads going way back on here; in one from 2015, TPM specifically says she thinks teams will have 40-50 in a few years!
But, that google search brings up very little else. No-one else talks about this.
If D1 programs said to players, "this NLI/guaranteed roster spot/whatever is NOT a spot on the 35-man roster, but a chance to try out for it," then it would indeed be a buyer-beware, show-up-ready-to-compete, best-man-wins type of situation. But I don't think that's what most people are told.
I also said stop worrying about the numbers, get yourself a solid commitment, sign an NLI and prepare yourself for some tough competition!
As an FYI, where son coaches, the HC sticks to 35, 36. Always.
I guess that the P5 programs can do that, and smaller programs lack the funds to offer athletic $$, so then I guess, that it's just easier to ask everyone to walk on ?
Isn't finding the right player for your particular program, part of your job?
TPM;
Amen:!
Happy to see you back! As a "part time" hitting coach at a local Division 2 college, I can only work with the "pure suspects" for the Spring roster. If they had running speed I advised switch hitting.
Bob
