Ivy League Recruiting

BucsFan posted:

smokeminside posted:

Just a follow up question which I hope is germaine. My understanding has been that Ivy's would not tell a kid they would commit to him before his jr. grades and test scores were complete.  Is that inaccurate?

This is not accurate, although it has generally been the case (italicized words being the key).  My son was offered by an Ivy 2 days before Christmas of his Junior year.  They had seen him throw 3 or 4x, he got the SAT score that they told him he needed (got that score that very day, in fact...they told him if he met or exceeded a certain score, they were going to offer immediately, and they did exactly that), his GPA was strong and they liked the rigorous HS class schedule that he was taking (lots of APs).  It was certainly unusually early for his school.   But, I think you have and will see more of this, especially for pitchers.  But, like all "commitments", thereafter, he had to keep up his end of the bargain in the class room.  The Ivy coaches just have to be clear what that means, and in my son's case, they certainly were.

 

Such good company on this thread regarding this topic I feel the need chime in.

Only thing I will add regarding early commitment for IVY, ie. "before his Jr. grades and test scores were complete." 

Yes, the ACT/SAT is a must.  That has to be in place.   Ivy admissions offices can not do an official pre-read on a candidate until AFTER July 1 of their rising Senior year.  Not sure if that's NCAA or Ivy League policy?  So a coach may "eyeball" a transcript and test score before July 1 of rising Sr year and offer based on their seasoned and trained eye from years of doing it.  But it is not a perfect science.  And if the prospect is a "bubble guy" meaning he is NOT a 4.0+ guy with 33+ACT score (for HYP anyway), the recruit is incurring a lot of risk.  All of it. 

The Ivy process can be somewhat straightforward if you are a legit 4.0+, 33+ACT candidate (again for HYP mostly) with baseball skills desired. 

It can, however,  be extremely treacherous if the player is a 3.7 to 3.9 GPA with 28-32 ACTs (or comparable SAT).  I do not recommend committing to an Ivy if your player fits this profile until after July 1 of rising Sr. year.  You can look, talk, inquire, but be careful about taking yourself off the market before an official pre-read by the Ivy admissions office of school offering.  Again that can not happen until after July 1 of rising senior year.   

I am not saying if you are a 3.7 to 3.9, 28-32ACT guy there's no room for you in Ivy recruiting.  No, not at all.  Look up guys in the IVY league  on PG and you'll see a wide range of GPAs and test scores for all 8 schools.  It's just the guys on the lower academic end are playing with fire to commit to an Ivy before an official admissions office pre-read can be done and that is only after July 1 of rising Sr. year.  

After lurking for a bit I just officially joined HSBBweb!  Just wanted to make a first post thanking the contributors for all of the great insight and advice!!  This thread re: Ivy League recruiting is particularly helpful for our situation - my 2019 LHP is interested in an Ivy and preparing for the September ACT as we speak.  Based on this thread, it seems like he could be a bubble Ivy academics wise  - 3.8+ GPA, AP classes and in ACT practice tests he projects to get around a 29 or 30 (hopefully).  So no slam dunk by any means, but at least worthy of a look.  He is very interested but also realistic that Ivy admission is a reach and therefore is casting a wide net.

Thanks again for the information and I look forward to sharing any knowledge that we gain in this process FWIW.  As for the desired Ivy, I think darling son will reach out after September 1st to see if there is any real interest, or perhaps wait until he gets his ACT score and, assuming its north of 29, reach out then?  He was at their Fall camp last year, and they've seen him at two other events.

BaseballinCT posted:

I've said this before: The high academic kids should consider taking the SAT/ACT early! My 2019 took it last Spring.  

Son took his SAT at the first offering when school started his junior year. His thought was he would be in "school mode" then, but not buried so much with heavy homework/projects because school just started. Turned out it was a good plan. Helped to have score in hand for big December showcase.

From Tucker Frawley: https://files.armssoftware.com/1848775/55ad036ae093

Good info in there

From Tucker Frawley: https://files.armssoftware.com/1848775/55ad036ae093

Good info in there

Yep that seems consistent with the information here on HSBBW.  Pretty high standards - yikes!  And to think these test score, gpa and related standards are "below" those of a typical admitted freshman at Yale...  I think it is a great goal to shoot for, but also want to be careful not to create undue pressure on our 2019 re: Ivy admission -- as it is beyond selective.  

QHead,

So, I look at it this way.   ivy baseball is extremely selective, but not all that complicated.  It is about risk management.   If your son is a genuine D1-caliber talent with 29-30 ACT then he has a chance (with a fair amount of risk) to be recruited by Ivys.   If he is able to move that academic needle incrementally up, he reduces that risk ever so slightly, and their interest turns from casual interest to serious interest.   A lot of this understanding your son's numbers and talent level relative to others competing for those same Ivy slots...there aren't many.   There are a handful of folks on this board that started where your son's numbers project but ended up in the low 30s ACT and  seriously recruited by Ivys.  However, it is first extremely important for your son to a project as a D1 talent .    That is what they are looking for, then their next question will be about grades and future plans.   Good luck!

I think another component of risk management is your willingness to wait for an Ivy offer at the expense of passing on other offers now. My 2019 was getting what I think was legitimate interest from a few Ivies beginning last spring through the summer. They let us know his grades are where they need to be and his SAT score (taken early!) was in range. I was crazy excited.  But by August he had offers from a handful of D-1 schools including a high academic in a power 5 conference.  Across the board, it was made pretty clear to us that the scholarship money would not be available forever. So do you pass and hope for the Ivy offers next spring or fall?  Will the non-Ivy offers still be on the table in a year even if the scholarship money is gone? Son decided he didn't want to risk it and committed to the HA. He is thrilled and his mom and I supported his decision.  Bird in the hand...       

Ageed BaseballinCT, and that is exactly my point.  If the ivys know a recruit is sought after at the D-1 level their interest quickly turns to someone like your son or others who have the metrics to be admitted.   Then it is up to the recruit to know exactly what they are looking for in a program or college.   In my son's case, he went in the other direction and took one of two Ivy offers.  This is one of those things I'm constantly PMing with others and that is to know what you want before it happens.   It is great to have choices, but knowing what you want ahead of time makes a very bumpy ride a little smoother.

What son saw was that once D1 interest materialized into offers (especially from one school) the timetable of the Ivy accelerated.  Gets back to knowing where you are on "the board"and as Fenway said knowing what you want. Recruiting is a long drawn out process. Son couldn't get over how fast things end, once they do.

2019Dad posted:

smokeminside posted:

Just a follow up question which I hope is germaine. My understanding has been that Ivy's would not tell a kid they would commit to him before his jr. grades and test scores were complete.  Is that inaccurate?

Smoke, I know that PG currently shows one commit for Princeton and two for Penn in the 2019 class . . . 

Three now for Penn. And it stands to reason that if three have announced commitments, others may have been offered. 

For those who have been through Ivy recruiting, when it's relatively early in the process -- well, I would've thought September of junior year is relatively early, but given what is going on with Penn, maybe it's not -- how forthcoming were the coaches in answering a "where am I on your board?" question? I mean, are they trying to lock down recruits early (like most schools) or are they waiting for test scores?

2019Dad posted:

Three now for Penn. And it stands to reason that if three have announced commitments, others may have been offered. 

For those who have been through Ivy recruiting, when it's relatively early in the process -- well, I would've thought September of junior year is relatively early, but given what is going on with Penn, maybe it's not -- how forthcoming were the coaches in answering a "where am I on your board?" question? I mean, are they trying to lock down recruits early (like most schools) or are they waiting for test scores?

To my earlier point and post, these are probably commits that are getting strong interest from other D1 schools or even other Ivys.  If these recruits/commits have extremely strong academics then there may be a fit here, and my question to them would be....did you consider Stanford?   However, if they don't have those very strong academics there is a risk, and it falls 100% on the recruit.  

If this was my kid, and I knew what I know now there were be a definitive plan B and C if he was committing to an Ivy this early.  My son had strong academics, but to commit this far in advance (unnecessarily) would not have been a good idea for him.   I hope that adds some context.   As always, JMO.

2019 Dad

Our 2017 visited Penn in the fall of his junior year, on a day off from school. Met with the RC as they had seen him at Stanford and had been in touch with him.  Had a terrific meeting, RC mentioned coming to see him play in the spring since HS was only a few hours away.  We knew they already had 3-4 "announced on PG" commits at that time, regional and local kids actually.  Son had scores and grades.  Did not ask where am I on board question as it was apparent they were very interested, and would want to see him play again, and planned to do so.  

What we didn't know is later that same day after we were home, another kid announced his commitment on social media (friend of a friend saw it and passed it on), same position, same basic metrics that SAME DAY...

Son kept in close touch with them, coaches never came in the spring to see him play though.  Did see Penn at Selectfest, Stanford and maybe WWBA or at least one other event but not sure how much they watched son, but they did stay in touch till the very end...never offered, just kept him around in the stable as I like to call it, in case maybe another recruit they really wanted fell through...

So to answer your question, Penn goes very early, as does Columbia.  And don't forget Penn doesn't go to HF in the summer so they don't get that extra 1500+ boys to wade through.  They also tend to add  transfers to their incoming class.  

These "early" commits likely already have test scores, or even PSAT scores that indicate they will hit the score they need on the SAT or ACT.  The trend is earlier, not just for these two schools either. 

And most of the Ivy commits do not announce this on PG.  Some prefer to wait until they have their likely letter (not issued till fall of senior year) and some just do not use PG.  There are more commits than announced on PG for sure.  For example, 4 announced for Columbia on PG but 8 guys announced in incoming class, see http://www.gocolumbialions.com...amp;ATCLID=211660350 . You can see 2 are transfers...

TWOBOYS that is really helpful information & perspective.  Thank you for sharing your experience.

Twoboys posted:

2019 Dad

Our 2017 visited Penn in the fall of his junior year, on a day off from school. Met with the RC as they had seen him at Stanford and had been in touch with him.  Had a terrific meeting, RC mentioned coming to see him play in the spring since HS was only a few hours away.  We knew they already had 3-4 "announced on PG" commits at that time, regional and local kids actually.  Son had scores and grades.  Did not ask where am I on board question as it was apparent they were very interested, and would want to see him play again, and planned to do so.  

What we didn't know is later that same day after we were home, another kid announced his commitment on social media (friend of a friend saw it and passed it on), same position, same basic metrics that SAME DAY...

Son kept in close touch with them, coaches never came in the spring to see him play though.  Did see Penn at Selectfest, Stanford and maybe WWBA or at least one other event but not sure how much they watched son, but they did stay in touch till the very end...never offered, just kept him around in the stable as I like to call it, in case maybe another recruit they really wanted fell through...

So to answer your question, Penn goes very early, as does Columbia.  And don't forget Penn doesn't go to HF in the summer so they don't get that extra 1500+ boys to wade through.  They also tend to add  transfers to their incoming class.  

These "early" commits likely already have test scores, or even PSAT scores that indicate they will hit the score they need on the SAT or ACT.  The trend is earlier, not just for these two schools either. 

And most of the Ivy commits do not announce this on PG.  Some prefer to wait until they have their likely letter (not issued till fall of senior year) and some just do not use PG.  There are more commits than announced on PG for sure.  For example, 4 announced for Columbia on PG but 8 guys announced in incoming class, see http://www.gocolumbialions.com...amp;ATCLID=211660350 . You can see 2 are transfers...

 

 

 

 

Great info, thanks! Son took PSAT last October, but hasn't taken the "real" test yet. In your experience, do the the schools ever give a conditional offer? Like, "keep your GPA where it is and get X on the ACT, and you're one of our guys" and then it's up to the kid to achieve said score on the standardized tests?

2019Dad posted:

Twoboys posted:

2019 Dad

Our 2017 visited Penn in the fall of his junior year, on a day off from school. Met with the RC as they had seen him at Stanford and had been in touch with him.  Had a terrific meeting, RC mentioned coming to see him play in the spring since HS was only a few hours away.  We knew they already had 3-4 "announced on PG" commits at that time, regional and local kids actually.  Son had scores and grades.  Did not ask where am I on board question as it was apparent they were very interested, and would want to see him play again, and planned to do so.  

What we didn't know is later that same day after we were home, another kid announced his commitment on social media (friend of a friend saw it and passed it on), same position, same basic metrics that SAME DAY...

Son kept in close touch with them, coaches never came in the spring to see him play though.  Did see Penn at Selectfest, Stanford and maybe WWBA or at least one other event but not sure how much they watched son, but they did stay in touch till the very end...never offered, just kept him around in the stable as I like to call it, in case maybe another recruit they really wanted fell through...

So to answer your question, Penn goes very early, as does Columbia.  And don't forget Penn doesn't go to HF in the summer so they don't get that extra 1500+ boys to wade through.  They also tend to add  transfers to their incoming class.  

These "early" commits likely already have test scores, or even PSAT scores that indicate they will hit the score they need on the SAT or ACT.  The trend is earlier, not just for these two schools either. 

And most of the Ivy commits do not announce this on PG.  Some prefer to wait until they have their likely letter (not issued till fall of senior year) and some just do not use PG.  There are more commits than announced on PG for sure.  For example, 4 announced for Columbia on PG but 8 guys announced in incoming class, see http://www.gocolumbialions.com...amp;ATCLID=211660350 . You can see 2 are transfers...

 

 

 

 

Great info, thanks! Son took PSAT last October, but hasn't taken the "real" test yet. In your experience, do the the schools ever give a conditional offer? Like, "keep your GPA where it is and get X on the ACT, and you're one of our guys" and then it's up to the kid to achieve said score on the standardized tests?

This is exactly what happened to a members son...if he gets min x SAT score offer is triggered.  He got the score and offer was executed (middle of junior year.)  But the timeline would be key... the college coach is not just going to say get this score and get back to me whenever...

Recruiting has time decay and coaches are not going to let six months go by for the kid to get back to them with the x SAT score... while it's easier for them to be flexible with a kid they really like during HS junior year, it is just the fact that in six months they could have found a similar player who already has the needed score.   

What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs?  Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships?  What is the general range of GPA and test scores?  If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy?  Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP.  Top 1000 measurable including speed,  position velocity and exit velo.  Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet. 

2019Dad posted:

Twoboys posted:

2019 Dad

Our 2017 visited Penn in the fall of his junior year, on a day off from school. Met with the RC as they had seen him at Stanford and had been in touch with him.  Had a terrific meeting, RC mentioned coming to see him play in the spring since HS was only a few hours away.  We knew they already had 3-4 "announced on PG" commits at that time, regional and local kids actually.  Son had scores and grades.  Did not ask where am I on board question as it was apparent they were very interested, and would want to see him play again, and planned to do so.  

What we didn't know is later that same day after we were home, another kid announced his commitment on social media (friend of a friend saw it and passed it on), same position, same basic metrics that SAME DAY...

Son kept in close touch with them, coaches never came in the spring to see him play though.  Did see Penn at Selectfest, Stanford and maybe WWBA or at least one other event but not sure how much they watched son, but they did stay in touch till the very end...never offered, just kept him around in the stable as I like to call it, in case maybe another recruit they really wanted fell through...

So to answer your question, Penn goes very early, as does Columbia.  And don't forget Penn doesn't go to HF in the summer so they don't get that extra 1500+ boys to wade through.  They also tend to add  transfers to their incoming class.  

These "early" commits likely already have test scores, or even PSAT scores that indicate they will hit the score they need on the SAT or ACT.  The trend is earlier, not just for these two schools either. 

And most of the Ivy commits do not announce this on PG.  Some prefer to wait until they have their likely letter (not issued till fall of senior year) and some just do not use PG.  There are more commits than announced on PG for sure.  For example, 4 announced for Columbia on PG but 8 guys announced in incoming class, see http://www.gocolumbialions.com...amp;ATCLID=211660350 . You can see 2 are transfers...

 

 

 

 

Great info, thanks! Son took PSAT last October, but hasn't taken the "real" test yet. In your experience, do the the schools ever give a conditional offer? Like, "keep your GPA where it is and get X on the ACT, and you're one of our guys" and then it's up to the kid to achieve said score on the standardized tests?

Yes. A 2019 RHP(for whom the school knows much about) was told to keep his GPA at 3.65 and 30 ACT.

Twoboys posted:

2019 Dad

Our 2017 visited Penn in the fall of his junior year, on a day off from school. Met with the RC as they had seen him at Stanford and had been in touch with him.  Had a terrific meeting, RC mentioned coming to see him play in the spring since HS was only a few hours away.  We knew they already had 3-4 "announced on PG" commits at that time, regional and local kids actually.  Son had scores and grades.  Did not ask where am I on board question as it was apparent they were very interested, and would want to see him play again, and planned to do so.  

What we didn't know is later that same day after we were home, another kid announced his commitment on social media (friend of a friend saw it and passed it on), same position, same basic metrics that SAME DAY...

Son kept in close touch with them, coaches never came in the spring to see him play though.  Did see Penn at Selectfest, Stanford and maybe WWBA or at least one other event but not sure how much they watched son, but they did stay in touch till the very end...never offered, just kept him around in the stable as I like to call it, in case maybe another recruit they really wanted fell through...

So to answer your question, Penn goes very early, as does Columbia.  And don't forget Penn doesn't go to HF in the summer so they don't get that extra 1500+ boys to wade through.  They also tend to add  transfers to their incoming class.  

These "early" commits likely already have test scores, or even PSAT scores that indicate they will hit the score they need on the SAT or ACT.  The trend is earlier, not just for these two schools either. 

And most of the Ivy commits do not announce this on PG.  Some prefer to wait until they have their likely letter (not issued till fall of senior year) and some just do not use PG.  There are more commits than announced on PG for sure.  For example, 4 announced for Columbia on PG but 8 guys announced in incoming class, see http://www.gocolumbialions.com...amp;ATCLID=211660350 . You can see 2 are transfers...

 

 

 

 

Great post Twoboys..mirrored much what my 2015 noticed.

Just to clarify -- because this came up in a PM -- the number of commits at an Ivy school is not a concern because of competition on the baseball team. The concern has nothing to do with starting or not starting, or playing time. For 99% of kids -- including mine -- if you're not one of the coach's 7 recruits in any given year, you can't get into the school. Never mind starting, you'll never even be on the roster because you'll never be a student there. You will be rejected by Admissions. 

Goblue33 posted:

What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs?  Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships?  What is the general range of GPA and test scores?  If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy?  Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP.  Top 1000 measurable including speed,  position velocity and exit velo.  Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet. 

No scholarships, athletic or academic. However, generous financial aid. Depending on family income, it can be a better deal than a baseball scholarship.

Take Princeton as an example. The cost of attendance for 2017-18 is $67,100 (tuition is $47,140 and the rest is room, board, fees, and expenses). If the family income is $65,000 or less, the student receives a grant to cover the full cost of tuition, fees, room, and board. If the family income is $160,000 or less, the student pays no tuition, so in that situation it can be a better deal than a 50% baseball ride somewhere else.

2019Dad is correct.  For most families, Ivy financial aid is a better deal than an athletic scholarship at a lot of schools. 

Goblue33 posted:

What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs?  Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships?  What is the general range of GPA and test scores?  If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy?  Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP.  Top 1000 measurable including speed,  position velocity and exit velo.  Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet. 

The best Ivy's in baseball terms have changed a few times over the years: recently, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia.

There are no athletic scholarships for Ivy.  They all have tremendous endowments supporting financial need applicants.  The financial need is "blind" to the admissions process.  Use the net cost calculators for each school.  Avg need met is around 47k per year per student.  I think the cutoff for financial aid is for incomes under $180k-$220K (I haven't done the calculator in a while). Need blind for Ivy's is similar to need blind for academic D3's and the Dukes and Stanfords.

Range of ACT scores:  H,P,Y avg roster score around 31, few kids could be a 28/29, but they'll be a "hard to pass up player" and the HC will balance this player with a recruit who may have a 33/34.  Other Ivy's seem to have more flexibility with admissions, taking players as low as a 27 ACT.  Look up previous year recruits committing to Ivy's on Perfect Game; you won't see all the commits, but enough to get perspective.  GPA's are normally strong, 3.5+, showing work ethic in the class room.  Look up the Academic Index used for Ivy's, plus lots of threads on your questions.  Use search button on top right.

If he has D1 tools and capability as a PO or position player along with the academic chops he should go for it.  Make sure his D1 skills are not just your assessment, get feedback from other coaches and by attending a few cheap camps or showcases.  If he's currently a junior you need to be acting now with attending the few Ivy camps slated for Sept and Oct.  This is especially important if he's a position player.  In showcases you never know how many balls are going to be hit your way in the games, so it's hard for the coaches to get a realistic assessment of your play between the white lines, as well as your field awareness.  They'll see the fundamentals during the pro style showcase, but not game actions.  Again, if he's a junior there are a few showcases coming up in Oct and early Nov that would be good to attend.  AZ Classic, PG Fall Academic, HF and ShB Camps in Nov... 

Plenty on this subject in recent posts, punch in key words and phrases in search button above.

Keep him getting stronger and faster... good luck.

2019Dad posted:

Goblue33 posted:

What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs?  Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships?  What is the general range of GPA and test scores?  If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy?  Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP.  Top 1000 measurable including speed,  position velocity and exit velo.  Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet. 

No scholarships, athletic or academic. However, generous financial aid. Depending on family income, it can be a better deal than a baseball scholarship.

Take Princeton as an example. The cost of attendance for 2017-18 is $67,100 (tuition is $47,140 and the rest is room, board, fees, and expenses). If the family income is $65,000 or less, the student receives a grant to cover the full cost of tuition, fees, room, and board. If the family income is $160,000 or less, the student pays no tuition, so in that situation it can be a better deal than a 50% baseball ride somewhere else.

So if my income exceeds let's say $200k does that mean my son probably wouldn't get an academic scholarship to an Ivy League School?  Are there any showcases that are better for top academic kids than others eg an "academic games" or showcase at top academic school?  My son will have no trouble finishing at a top HS with a GPA much higher than 3.5 in advanced AP courses and an ACT over 28.  But are you guys collectively saying he still has to be top 5-7 recruit per the HC, and that my income might exclude me from getting aid?  Frankly that threshold doesn't seem very high and is biased by where in the country you live.  Any travel teams that focus on Ivy League? I've heard US Elite out of PA has a good placement rate at Ivies and they have show interest in one of my kids but we live a few hundred miles away.  Thanks ! 

Goblue33 posted:

What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs?  Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships?  What is the general range of GPA and test scores?  If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy?  Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP.  Top 1000 measurable including speed,  position velocity and exit velo.  Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet. 

The "best Ivy baseball program" may have a different answer depending on what is sought. Baseball facilities? Winning percentage? Ivy titles? Players drafted into MLB? Freshman get time on field? Roster turnover?.  If you get enough talented players to come from one or two recruiting classes, games won and standings can change quickly. 

Was thinking as Gov mentioned to check AI (Academic Index). There are some HSBBWEB threads on AI. I do think position players and POs have different timetables. PO's are committed early (hit a specific speed, interest from D1s, or later (LHP, pitcher develops.."board changed at a school). Position players generally commit (looking at the 8 Ivies as a whole) commit summer (early or late) before senior year, unless they can "mash.". Some early commit position guys seem to be in the regional area of school, so that they have had several looks/knowledge of a player.

As mentioned all aid is need based.

GoBlue, if a kid is not one of the coach's recruits -- and doesn't have another hook -- then he probably needs a 35-ish score on the ACT, and even then no guarantees. Again, using Princeton as an example, the 25% - 75% range for ACT scores this past year was 31 - 35. But the overwhelming majority of those at the lower end, will have had some hook (e.g., recruited athlete) that enabled them to clear admissions. If you just apply as a regular student without some sort of hook, you need to be on the higher end of the range. 

The 99th percentile scores for the ACT start at a score of 33. That's what I meant when I said "For 99% of kids -- including mine -- if you're not one of the coach's 7 recruits in any given year, you can't get into the school."

So if my income exceeds let's say $200k does that mean my son probably wouldn't get an academic scholarship to an Ivy League School?  ......

GoBlue: there are zero scholarships to an Ivy.  But if you make more than $200K your son may not qualify for any financial aid.  You'll have to do the cost calculator, you may be surprised....

Baseball wise:  Ivy baseball coaches are looking for baseball players just like any coach.  They are looking for D1 skilled players with the smarts.  If your kid has both, you need to market your kid via camps, showcases, and possible tournaments (WWBA).   A lot of this is timing:  is he a position player? is he physically mature or projectable? is he already producing measurables which are D1 level?  BUT, at the end, they still need to see him play!  You are doing a great thing being on this site to become vested in the recruiting process.  You cannot lean on any one coach or program to position your son, they may be able to help, but it doesn't really work that way.

For a team look into the East Coast Clippers. They build a roster of higher academic kids and go play tournaments and have individual workouts at most of the Ivy's and NESCAC schools throughout the month of July.  Run by a solid guy I know and met here on this board.  Happy to share his info via PM if you'd like. 

2019Dad posted:

GoBlue, if a kid is not one of the coach's recruits -- and doesn't have another hook -- then he probably needs a 35-ish score on the ACT,

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One MI played against my son in American Legion ball. He wanted to play baseball in the Ivy league (had academic chops, I think he was #1 in his class in HS). Turns out he applied and was accepted to 6- or7 of the Ivies. Nice player with some speed. Walked on to one of the Ivies. His "other hook" which I didn't know about, was that he was one of the best violin players not in state but regionally.

Goblue33 posted:

What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs?  Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships?  What is the general range of GPA and test scores?  If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy?  Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP.  Top 1000 measurable including speed,  position velocity and exit velo.  Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet. 

No question, or answer, addressed life after baseball. Forget which Ivy program is the best (turns out that league championships rotate pretty regularly); ALL Ivy schools allow your son to find a high paying, interesting, first real job - without sacrificing any opportunities to play proball. ALL Ivy schools have networking opportunities which last a lifetime.  ALL Ivy schools have access to the top summer leagues (and internships if summer baseball isn't desired).

If a kid has a chance to attend and play baseball at at Ivy, IMO, only Stanford stands higher on the D1 chart. Stanford provides the same opportunities, but in a much more competitive program.

Recognize that the demands of college ball probably means that some form of academic sacrifice will be made - either in major selected or grades earned (most likely both); the same is true in an Ivy program. So, there will be fewer engineers, math majors, physics majors when compared to the general student population; however, that economics degree from any Ivy school opens all doors (Econ degrees were the default degree for baseball players at S's school).

I communicate regularly with coaches. Ivy coaches are making lists early (just like all other coaches). First and foremost, they want baseball players. Ironically, it's easy to identify the studs early; but quite impossible to KNOW who will bring in Ivy test scores - so the lists are in flux until then. (And this allows other players to develop and emerge as potential recruits.) (As others have said, the earlier testing the better; this cuts against what most HS guidance counselors recommend and, therefore, a parent needs to be proactive in preparing their son for the tests in both course selection and test prep. S had finished his testing by September junior year which gave the coaches what each needed.)

Unofficial visits are a great avenue to make a connection with the coaches - but only if you can show the coach he's not wasting your and his time. This means having a decent transcript - even as a 10th grader. For example, a kid with 3 semesters of transcripts can show (a) grades and (b) cirriculum difficulty.  While past results are no guarantee of the future, past BAD results knock a player out. So, drop by a school (have S email coach to see if he's there during the visit).

Academic preparation for an Ivy begins early (no need to get into that yet) and by end of ninth grade an honest assessment will tell a family if son has a shot to clear the academic bar.

On the financial front, each family is unique. Ivy FA is probably the best in the country; but for those families earning a bit too much, you will be squeezed like a stone until nothing is left; we got aid (2 kids in college simultaneously for most years), but didn't take vacations and trimmed our lifestyle in years we didnt.)

But, if the goal is a kid who can immediately live on his salary (think way more than COA), earning more than I ever dreamed was possible in a first job after a degree, in a city of his choosing, using his intellect and critical thought process (taught at college), while adding job skills, an Ivy is the way to go. Financially, an Ivy will provide a kid with a successful launch. Once your son is launched,  you can rebuild the family wealth - son won't be using it anymore.

Goosegg has got it right!  Patriot League would also afford the same opportunities mentioned.

Goosegg posted:

Goblue33 posted:

What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs?  Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships?  What is the general range of GPA and test scores?  If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy?  Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP.  Top 1000 measurable including speed,  position velocity and exit velo.  Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet. 

No question, or answer, addressed life after baseball. Forget which Ivy program is the best (turns out that league championships rotate pretty regularly); ALL Ivy schools allow your son to find a high paying, interesting, first real job - without sacrificing any opportunities to play proball. ALL Ivy schools have networking opportunities which last a lifetime.  ALL Ivy schools have access to the top summer leagues (and internships if summer baseball isn't desired).

If a kid has a chance to attend and play baseball at at Ivy, IMO, only Stanford stands higher on the D1 chart. Stanford provides the same opportunities, but in a much more competitive program.

Recognize that the demands of college ball probably means that some form of academic sacrifice will be made - either in major selected or grades earned (most likely both); the same is true in an Ivy program. So, there will be fewer engineers, math majors, physics majors when compared to the general student population; however, that economics degree from any Ivy school opens all doors (Econ degrees were the default degree for baseball players at S's school).

I communicate regularly with coaches. Ivy coaches are making lists early (just like all other coaches). First and foremost, they want baseball players. Ironically, it's easy to identify the studs early; but quite impossible to KNOW who will bring in Ivy test scores - so the lists are in flux until then. (And this allows other players to develop and emerge as potential recruits.) (As others have said, the earlier testing the better; this cuts against what most HS guidance counselors recommend and, therefore, a parent needs to be proactive in preparing their son for the tests in both course selection and test prep. S had finished his testing by September junior year which gave the coaches what each needed.)

Unofficial visits are a great avenue to make a connection with the coaches - but only if you can show the coach he's not wasting your and his time. This means having a decent transcript - even as a 10th grader. For example, a kid with 3 semesters of transcripts can show (a) grades and (b) cirriculum difficulty.  While past results are no guarantee of the future, past BAD results knock a player out. So, drop by a school (have S email coach to see if he's there during the visit).

Academic preparation for an Ivy begins early (no need to get into that yet) and by end of ninth grade an honest assessment will tell a family if son has a shot to clear the academic bar.

On the financial front, each family is unique. Ivy FA is probably the best in the country; but for those families earning a bit too much, you will be squeezed like a stone until nothing is left; we got aid (2 kids in college simultaneously for most years), but didn't take vacations and trimmed our lifestyle in years we didnt.)

But, if the goal is a kid who can immediately live on his salary (think way more than COA), earning more than I ever dreamed was possible in a first job after a degree, in a city of his choosing, using his intellect and critical thought process (taught at college), while adding job skills, an Ivy is the way to go. Financially, an Ivy will provide a kid with a successful launch. Once your son is launched,  you can rebuild the family wealth - son won't be using it anymore.

Goosegg, this is a great post. one question: when you say "unofficial visit" do you mean just showing up on campus? Or a visit prior to senior year where the coaches have invited you to visit, watch a practice, etc.? Did your son do the latter?

2019Dad posted:

GoBlue, if a kid is not one of the coach's recruits -- and doesn't have another hook -- then he probably needs a 35-ish score on the ACT, and even then no guarantees. Again, using Princeton as an example, the 25% - 75% range for ACT scores this past year was 31 - 35. But the overwhelming majority of those at the lower end, will have had some hook (e.g., recruited athlete) that enabled them to clear admissions. If you just apply as a regular student without some sort of hook, you need to be on the higher end of the range. 

The 99th percentile scores for the ACT start at a score of 33. That's what I meant when I said "For 99% of kids -- including mine -- if you're not one of the coach's 7 recruits in any given year, you can't get into the school."

Question on Ivy walk-ons:  Assume you are able to clear admissions on your own (realize this is highly unlikely given the 7% acceptance at these places), is it fairly easy to walk on?  Not sure how many 35-ish students there that can handle D1 Baseball.  Does anyone have insights on the Fall walk-on process at the Ivies?

Definitely not easy.  My son’s Ivy team has 1 walk on, and he is a LHP.   Roster size is 29.   Beileve they are very used to working with a smaller (than most D1s, below max of 35) roster.

I would also add that most walk on's are known quantities.  At our sons school the headcoach committed to his top 5-7 and told others that they could be on the team if they were able to clear admissions.  They did not have open tryouts.

Bb4me posted:

I would also add that most walk on's are known quantities.  At our sons school the headcoach committed to his top 5-7 and told others that they could be on the team if they were able to clear admissions.  They did not have open tryouts.

Excellent point.  Such is the case with the walk on LHP.  Knew him in recruiting process but did not commit “one of their slots” to him but welcomed him if/when he got in on his own.

Also, son just told me they have an open tryout.  None made it from this year’s. 

Would agree with above posts.  Have one in the Ivy right now.  Kids typically don't just show up and make the team.  Coaches almost always know who they are before they get to campus.  And the admissions hurdle is ridiculously high to get in on your own without support.

 

Goosegg, this is a great post. one question: when you say "unofficial visit" do you mean just showing up on campus? Or a visit prior to senior year where the coaches have invited you to visit, watch a practice, etc.? Did your son do the latter?

Usually unofficial visits are scheduled (know you are coming), but it's on your "dime." Sons visits to Ivies were all "scheduled" in order to meet coaches, see facilities, etc. We visited a Patriot school unannounced (Close to an Ivy Camp son went to); able to take the school tour and meet assistant coaches and see facilities. HC was out of town. This school was also recruiting son, so it was worthwhile for both. Son's "unofficial visits" to school he would commit to involved talking with coaches, seeing facilities, discussing coaching philosophies, and watching a practice. Most visits also included the "standard school tour"- away from the athletic piece.

Great Post Goosegg!!

Great post by Goosegg but I would add a few things:

Some Ivies will have a one day or very short open tryout.  Others will give walk ons or those not the beneficiary of a likely letter and slot all fall to show themselves.  This differs by coaches and by schools, and of course by positional needs.  Since there is no scholarship money, there isn't the same issue as elsewhere in D1 of having the coach have skin in the game except perhaps some personal issues with favoring the guys they actually recruited.  

This past year several Ivies were looking for LHP after using their slots on other guys.  One school probably asked 20 guys to apply, hoping 1 or 2 would get in on their own.  1 did and he is rostered.  

Also, not to stir the pot on what schools afford the best post college job prospects without sacrificing the possibility to play pro ball, networking and an alumni network that will last a lifetime as I agree the Ivies can do that, but not all ivies are equal in this regard.  First, some have 5% or less admission rates (like Stanford and MIT) but others are up near 12-15% (even higher/easier admission rates than some elite high academic D3s in the NESCAC, Pomona/Claremont etc).   In addition, not to malign any of these prestigious institutions, but some are much better undergraduate experiences than others, and some "do" certain areas as well if not the best as any other institution in the world (ie hotel mgmt at Cornell, finance at Wharton/Penn, econ at Harvard (among others), pre med program at Brown, etc.) and in other areas to be honest they are not all that special, but yes your degree is still from that Ivy.

The difference for the baseball playing high academic kid is the pro ball angle.  As we have discussed on other threads, D3 occasionally provides this opportunity, but not to the extent of D1.  Otherwise I would add the academic elite of the NESCAC schools, MIT, Hopkins, Pomona and Claremont which have just as selective admissions and the same job prospects and networking and alumni support and $$ as well as similar financial aid policies, but of course a difference in baseball.  But to the D1 Ivy + Stanford list, I have to think Duke is in the same category and other schools like Vandy, UVA, Northwestern, Notre Dame, others might argue similarly.  I'm not being comprehensive -- and NO ONE CAN -- but let's not get caught up in the Ivy mystique that they are the only schools which afford a graduate the golden ticket which last a lifetime.  I have one of those golden tickets so I know, but I also know that there is more out there than just these 8 schools bound together by an athletic league.