Replies sorted oldest to newest
The Ivy"s that had regular dialogues with my son during his junior year became more serious after the results of his 2nd ACT was posted.His previous score was a bit under what they needed for a student athlete.This was June 8th of 2013.By mid August they had all made a decision.Some of them watched my son play at 3 different events in that time span as well.
All of the IVY coaches that my son dealt with informed him of their final decision.None of them left him hanging.A teammate of my son received a couple of offers from IVY's during The Stanford All Star Camp.
My son liked all of the IVY coaches that he met especially Coach Marsh of Cornell.He always responded to questions and emails,and was the first one to congratulate him on his last ACT score.Also,he's a fellow SoCal from Surf City...Huntington Beach for all you non locals
It also helped my son after ACT scores came back and he was able to advise schools prior to Stanford camp and Headfirst that he met their minimums. He did not have enough for Harvard, Yale or Princeton though, (as we were told he needed at least a 30 and he was just short).
Many of the Ivy schools will make their decision mid summer. Grades and test scores are their main issue. I would suggest going to each of the schools that are being considered. My 2015 is being considered and is considering a couple of the Ivy schools. The coaches have been upfront with him and lay out what they expect.
kevkev29,
Mostly, the time frame is determined by your son's baseball level, board scores and desire to attend one of these schools. Best case for your son is he is a stud, has the necessary SAT/ACT board scores, and is willing to forego other D1 offers for an Ivy. If any Ivy coach sees those things lineup...right now, he sees a green light and could be offering. Finanical aid is another discussion for another day. I've worked with many folks on this board (and others) with their Ivy recruitment, and it varies. Overall, the recruitment timeframe is moving up like the rest of D1 which is why I would advise some Ivy recruits to try to get the necessary SAT/ACT in the Fall of junior year if they are comfortable and confident. This has the potential to separate your son from the field for Ivys and other schools.
In addition, I think there is a slight variance in Ivy recruiting on the West coast and East coast venues, recruit numbers and timing. 5 years ago my son was a late comer (> August) to the Ivy process, but he still had two Ivy offers. Today, I think my son's situation would be much different in terms of the process. It is essential to get in front of these coaches, let them know who you are, stay in touch and let them know what you bring to the table athletically and academically. If your son has what it takes on the baseball field, the classroom and the right exposure strategy...they may be interested. These ivy coaches have a very tough job, and every year they don't get all the recruits they want because Admission's says "no". I think you'll start to hear of early Ivy commits starting in the next few months with the bulk being in June/July after the high D1's and mid-D1's go through their commits.
Good luck, and feel free to PM me with any questions.
kevkev,
You asked about where a kid with Ivy interest was seen...
My 2012 son had "offers" from many of the Ivy's. Things have changed a little bit since then, as several schools (Brown, Cornell, Penn, Yale) were doing showcases with a couple other primarily academic schools and called their showcase "GPA Baseball". Son was seen by those schools there.
He also was offered by two Ivy's after the PG National Academic Showcase. Ditto two more at the Headfirst Honor Roll Camp (now I see one or more of the GPA Showcase schools resuming their participation in Headfirst).
The Princeton Camp was referenced to us as very good and included participation from neighboring schools. But we did not attend that. Typically late July or early August timeframe.
Son did the February Harvard bubble camp (quite a story in its own right) and there were a lot of neighboring schools attending that too.
All the Ivy's do the prospect camp thing, sometimes more than one time per year. But we found it was not necessary to attend one of those to be offered. However, we ultimately visited most of the campuses at some point in the journey.
They all saw him play at The Stanford All Star Camp.Some of them saw him play at The Area Code Games tryouts and at The San Gabriel Arsenal SoCal Cup.
What kind of SAT, ACT scores do the Ivies and similar academic schools look for a student athlete? Does anyone have actual experience. My son is a strong student but without athletics would unlikely get in straight up. He has taken the SATs once. Taking again in a few weeks, and ACTs in April. We are expecting to finish with SATs in the 600s in each category. Looking to go to school for business. We are tying determine what level of academic schools to shoot for in the recruiting process. In the north east there are so many options to look at with similar academic requirements. DI Ivies & Patriot, and DIII Centennial, and NESCAC.
His best friend is an excellent student and could likely get in nearly anywhere, and wants to go pre-med and play baseball. He is a 6-1 RHP that throws 86 and went 7-1 as a Soph on a Varsity team that only 12 games. Not Major D1 we understand but ridiculous grades and test scores makes him attractive. I my thoughts are for is friend would be to go to a DIII because of the demands of his major, and he will excel as a player. Any thoughts?
What kind of SAT, ACT scores do the Ivies and similar academic schools look for a student athlete? Does anyone have actual experience. My son is a strong student but without athletics would unlikely get in straight up. He has taken the SATs once. Taking again in a few weeks, and ACTs in April. We are expecting to finish with SATs in the 600s in each category. Looking to go to school for business. We are tying determine what level of academic schools to shoot for in the recruiting process. In the north east there are so many options to look at with similar academic requirements. DI Ivies & Patriot, and DIII Centennial, and NESCAC.
His best friend is an excellent student and could likely get in nearly anywhere, and wants to go pre-med and play baseball. He is a 6-1 RHP that throws 86 and went 7-1 as a Soph on a Varsity team that only 12 games. Not Major D1 we understand but ridiculous grades and test scores makes him attractive. I my thoughts are for is friend would be to go to a DIII because of the demands of his major, and he will excel as a player. Any thoughts?
When my son decided he wanted to use his baseball talents as a way to gain acceptance into a high academic school his ACT score was 26.He was targeting all of the leagues you mentioned.Every coach that was actively recruiting him advised him that he would need to get that score higher in order to have a legitimate shot with admissions.Some of them said they could work with a 29 while others told him they would need to see at least a 31 score.
He took the ACT one more time and scored high enough to qualify for any of schools that were recruiting him.That being said,without baseball as a "hook" it would have been difficult to be admitted to the school that he will be attending next fall.These schools deny applicants who have higher scores and GPA's than my son every year.
Not every recruited athlete has a 30 or above ACT test score at these schools.Two of my son's HS teammates are playing in the Ivy League right now.Neither of them scored that high.Every case is different.The academic index comes into play as do some other variables.FenwaySouth,Leftyshortstop,and Bransonbaseball are better versed on the nuts and bolts of this somewhat mysterious process.
Hope this helps .
Fenway South is THE expert on Ivy League admissions and baseball. Our 2012 son plays in the Ivy League and Fenway provided tons of valuable information. Regarding your question on what it takes to get I would recommend you type Academic Index or AI in the search box. Fenway has at least one great post on what it takes to get in. At the end of the day a player with excellent baseball skills is usually able to get in with lower test scores than a solid but not outstanding player; no surprise I guess.
You sons friend sounds like an excellent fit for Ivy schools. Throwing quite hard for a sophomore and excellent test scores is a good combo.
Good Luck!
What kind of SAT, ACT scores do the Ivies and similar academic schools look for a student athlete? Does anyone have actual experience. My son is a strong student but without athletics would unlikely get in straight up. He has taken the SATs once. Taking again in a few weeks, and ACTs in April. We are expecting to finish with SATs in the 600s in each category. Looking to go to school for business. We are tying determine what level of academic schools to shoot for in the recruiting process. In the north east there are so many options to look at with similar academic requirements. DI Ivies & Patriot, and DIII Centennial, and NESCAC.
Phillyball,
Although you didn't ask the question, he needs to be a genuine D1 caliber recruit to play Ivy and Patriot. So assuming he has that, I'll provide the following general Ivy baseball guideline off the top of my head. Your mileage may vary. Bare in mind there is a lot more that goes into Ivy admission decisions that are not determined by the coach directly.
3 x 600s - must be deemed a baseball stud for admission to Br, Col, Corn, Dart, Penn
3 x 650s - must be deemed very good player to B, Col, Cor, Dart, Penn, must be deemed a stud for HYP baseball
3x 700s - should be good enough to get into all Ivys with the right baseball talent.
I'd strongly suggest you see a few Ivy games to determine if it is a fit. The non-conference season starts next weekend with conference play beginning March 29th. Good luck!
Thank you, that’s pretty helpful. We have been told he is a D1 player but not a blue chip, as far as numbers. He puts up good numbers but as a Jr. is only 5-7, 170, pretty fast but not a burner. He is young for his class, some kids a whole year older. As a measure his high school team puts 1 or 2 players in D-1 every year and one or two in D-2, but not blue chip D-1, Navy, Radford, GW, Nova. Penn State. Several have done well. Penn has expressed some interest but I know he will not get in to Penn for business. A lot obviously rides on this year and how he does on ACT and SATs in the next couple of months. There are a lot of schools in our target range we don’t want to waste time targeting schools he won't get into. The plan is to see some games but unfortually those leagues play many of their games during the week and the same time school ball is playing.
Fenway is the guru on this stuff. My info is anecdotal. Son was 28 ACT, 9.0 PG rating. Offers from most of the Ivy's including 2 of HYP. But every school has different needs and the times continue to change.
Fenway noted that a player needs to be of genuine D1 caliber. I have to echo that. My guy was offered by all but the Pac12 and SEC. He's no superstar. But the talent level is legit everywhere including the Ivys. The ACT/SAT scores are higher, but these kids can play too.
. The ACT/SAT scores are higher, but these kids can play too.
I agree. Some of these kids can really play, however the talent is not as deep as some of the higher level conferences (as we would expect).
Phillyball,
You are correct. It probably will come down to SAT or ACT scores for your son....it usually does for most people considering this path. Many that know me have often heard me refer to Ivy recruiting process as a "guantlet". However, if you make it through the "guantlet", you could have some leverage with multiple Ivys. That is a really good thing.
Some of the best Ivy position players I've seen over the last few years are not physical specimens. They have a smaller strike zone. If you walk them you're screwed. If you pitch to them they can hit, and some of them can hit for power. These guys have incredible hands and timing. Size is for the "TV confererences"; ACC, PAC10, Big12 and SEC. 
.
You specifically mentioned Penn business. I wouldn't necessarily cross any college off the list for any reason until you know for sure. Trust me on this. My son applied into an Ivy engineering school with a 7% admission rate. One of the reasons I think he got in was because he throws a baseball very fast. Never underestimate the Ivy athletic hook if your son can back it up with academic and athletic credentials. JMO.
Ivy conference games are weekends only, so you should be able to see a few games. Penn's home games are March 29/30 (Yale/Brown), April 12-13 (Cornell) and April 25-26 (Columbia). They play a 7 and 9 inning double header on Sat and Sunday for 5 weeks. If your son is interested in Penn, now is a good time to show that interest by reaching out to the coaches and getting some face time with them at a few games. They have a new coach who wants to turn the program around in the (currently) tougher Gehrig division (Columbia, Cornell, Princeton). He is going to need talent, and now.
Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.
SAT changes coming. Going to be interesting for us if my son does not ace it next year and has to take the new version in 2016 with different scoring and such.
They are going old school. I like it. It's been shown in scientific studies that the essay portion is crap. Whoever writes the most words gets the highest score, even if it's word salad.
And now, when I tell my kids I got 1420 on my SAT back in the day they won't think I'm a moron.
Curious to see how the schools are going to handle the picking of choosing top scores from multiple tests when the tests are not the same from 15' to 16'.
Curious to see how the schools are going to handle the picking of choosing top scores from multiple tests when the tests are not the same from 15' to 16'.
The schools will adapt just fine by normalizing based on grad year. For my oldest son the two ivys (I'm most familiar with) told son us they didn't even look at the essay section scores.
My youngest son is a 2015, and I'd be more concerned for any students taking one style of test their junior year and possibly another style their senior year.
They are going old school. I like it. It's been shown in scientific studies that the essay portion is crap. Whoever writes the most words gets the highest score, even if it's word salad.
And now, when I tell my kids I got 1420 on my SAT back in the day they won't think I'm a moron.
If any of you have seen some of the word requirements of the old SAT you would be amazed. I graduated top of my class in college, did very well a top national law school, and I have been practicing law for 20 years. When I went to my daughter's SAT prep class I did not recognize a substantial portion of the words that were being used on the test. If I have never seen or heard of the words being used (given my education and vocation), maybe high school kids do not need to be tested on it as it provides no basis to determine success in college.
They are going old school. I like it. It's been shown in scientific studies that the essay portion is crap. Whoever writes the most words gets the highest score, even if it's word salad.
And now, when I tell my kids I got 1420 on my SAT back in the day they won't think I'm a moron.
If any of you have seen some of the word requirements of the old SAT you would be amazed. I graduated top of my class in college, did very well a top national law school, and I have been practicing law for 20 years. When I went to my daughter's SAT prep class I did not recognize a substantial portion of the words that were being used on the test. If I have never seen or heard of the words being used (given my education and vocation), maybe high school kids do not need to be tested on it as it provides no basis to determine success in college.
Maybe I shouldn't go down this hole, but I think there is value in testing the ability to determine the meaning of words through context and usage. I think this demonstrates interpretive and analytic skills that are useful in college, and learning in general. If the SAT is reduced to testing what has been taught and learned, then it would have no basis for determining success in college.
This thread is a few years old now. Any new insights on the Ivy's? Specifically, are the ACT/SAT score requirements the same (from the above looks like 31 minimum, although lower is possible) and what is the timing of likely letters? Do Ivy's do unofficial visits even before junior grades completed? If offers are being made at Stanford and HeadFirst, does that mean that the Coach has a likely letter in his hands? Any guidance is appreciated.
I wonder whatever happened to Kauaidad and his son. It sounded like his son was on an interesting path.
Midwest Mom,
Likely Letters are sent to the recruit by Admissions after Oct 1 of senior year. There is a lot of things that must happen prior to a coach recommending a recruit to Admissions for a Likely Letter. These do not grow on trees. Unofficial visits can and do happen just about any time, and there is a lot of flexibility.
NCAA Definition: Unofficial visit: Any visit by you and your parents to a college campus paid for by you or your parents. The only expense you may receive from the college is three complimentary admissions to a Division I home athletics contest or five complimentary admissions to a Division II home athletics contest. You may make as many unofficial visits as you like and may take those visits at any time. The only time you cannot talk with a coach during an unofficial visit is during a dead period.
Good luck!
Thank you FenwaySouth. This is helpful. So when an Ivy Coach is offering at a Stanford or a HeadFirst, it's before the likely letter and still fairly uncertain? Or, by that time does the Coach already believe the player can be admitted based on grades and test scores?
To add to what FenwaySouth said, the coach will be able to have Admissions issue up to 7 or 8 Likely Letters for a given recruiting class (well, a better way to put it is that the baseball coach can support 7 or 8; it is Admissions that issues the Likely Letters). There is no situation where there are 20+ baseball commits in a single recruiting class.
In terms of the timeline moving up, as of a couple weeks ago, an Ivy RC said "we are currently putting the final touches on the high school Class of 2018 recruiting class" -- so as a guestimate maybe one spot left for 2018s? Maybe two? Like most D1s, by now they are focused more on 2019s (and of course some of the Power 5s are focused on 2020s).
These are from a few years ago but are good:
Thanks 2019Dad. Since it seems like recruiting timelines in Ivy's are moving up, I'm just wondering if and how the process has modified. One Ivy HC told my son in June that he liked what he saw in grades and on the field but needed to see ACT scores (he's taking the ACT in December). Just not sure what happens once those scores are in hand over what time frame. Also looking at other D1s and D3s -- just getting into the process now so sure it will be a wild ride. Love seeing posts from people who have been through it and those who are in the same situation with 2019s.
Thanks MidwestMom. The real experts here are folks like Fenway South. But I'm learning. 
Key takeaway from that NY Times article: it is a recruiting class's Academic Index, not an individual's (though there is a floor of 176) that a coach has to meet. So -- I'm just making this up but you'll get the idea -- a RHP topping out at 88 mph might be told that he needs a 32 ACT, whereas a RHP topping out at 92 mph might be told he needs a 28 ACT. The better the player the closer he can be to the minimum Academic Index score (176).
Sort of 2019Dad. Definitely the higher the baseball ability, the more leniency in scores/grades with scores mattering more in the Ivy Academic Index. Yale RC says all the time they have an average AC score of 31. That means some higher, some lower, and depending how much lower it means the onus is on the coach to keep the balance. One of my sons with a near perfect SAT score was told by an Ivy coach (in another sport), and I quote him directly, "If I take you, I can take 2 dumbasses." In 2017 there were PG posted (self reported of course and not verified!) ACT scores as low as 26 where the player reported an Ivy commitment. Gotta think they were highly desirable on the baseball front. Of course one has to wonder if a low score on these standardized tests indicate that highly rigorous academic environments would be the best fit, but that's not for me to judge.
Also the number of slots is different by school and by year. In 2017, one Ivy had only 5 slots, while most seemed to have 7. I believe all Ivies now able to take transfers (Princeton was last to cave here) so that is a growing chunk of their recruiting classes too.
But to answer the questions, offers usually only come after a pre read from admissions where they let the coach know that the recruit is admissable. It is just too hard to give anyone any kind of offer without knowing that admission to ANY highly selective school (not just D1) gives the coach the green light.
Midwest Mom: Here's a couple of excerpts from Tucker Frawley's blog. He is the Recruiting Coordinator for Yale. It addresses some of your questions.
https://www.frawleybaseball.co...e-Recruiting-Process
https://www.frawleybaseball.co...cademics-vs-Baseball
Lots of good info on the blog. It's from one of the eight schools though the schools recruiting methods have similarities.
2019Dad's articles were OK too. Fewer HS's now are ranking students which used to be part of one version of the Academic Index Formula. Fenway was spot on about likely letters. Most of the final recruiting spots in 2019 class will take place June-August next year, after HF camps. (Recruiting for P, C and power hitters may be earlier)
Just a follow up question which I hope is germaine. My understanding has been that Ivy's would not tell a kid they would commit to him before his jr. grades and test scores were complete. Is that inaccurate?
smokeminside posted:Just a follow up question which I hope is germaine. My understanding has been that Ivy's would not tell a kid they would commit to him before his jr. grades and test scores were complete. Is that inaccurate?
Smoke, I know that PG currently shows one commit for Princeton and two for Penn in the 2019 class . . .
With 2018 we've been in the middle of the high academic and Ivy recruiting process. If you have a 2019 understand that the timeline for Ivy recruiting has moved up: the Ivy's are identifying impact playing juniors now. If your 2019 junior has the academic strength and high level baseball skills where he would standout quickly, try to get him to a fall Ivy camp. There are still a few left; your son will have a chance to spend 2 days under the watchful eyes of all the coaches and possibly start developing a relationship. At a minimum, when your Junior shows up at the PG Fall Academic, or AZ Fall Junior Classic in Oct, or HF Jupiter in Nov, the Ivy coaches that saw him for 2 days in the fall will be paying attention to him if he stood out during the fall camp.
Off season of junior year: last big off season to get stronger and faster
These coaches are baseball guys first! They are looking for ball players with hopes they'll have the grades and min ACT scores to get through admissions. No C's, along with a 27-28 ACT can get a kid into Cornell, Brown, Columbia, Penn, or Dartmouth... Coaches will be more aggressive with kids they like early in the recruiting process.
Princeton HC stated point blank, at the recent Showball HC Camp that their timeline for identifying juniors is much earlier than in the prior year. If your kid has a few D1 tools, good grade transcripts thus far, and a desire to attend a top academic school like an Ivy, again, I'd suggest getting him to a fall and or winter camp so he can start to get noticed, then plan to attend the other showcases I mentioned above.
We didn't think the fall junior year camps were that big of a deal and chose to keep the net cast wide with all recruiting events. It was a mistake, we needed to blend a few larger showcases along with the individual camps of my sons highly targeted schools to increase his chances. If you are a Pitcher and wait for the winter camps you'll conflict with the arm having been shut down and needing the proper time to ramp back up. Also, bats will not be as primed as they were during the fall.
JMO with very recent experience. Looks like my 2018 is destined for a high academic D3, and that is still, a great thing, just not quite what my 2018 had originally hoped for.
(Excuse any grammar violations, rushing this before work....)
Cheers.
Edit: had to correct few mistakes, but messaging the same.
MidWest Mom,
In my experience, Ivy offers come after SAT/ACT scores are in. There is no way an Ivy can offer without Admissions signing off on a pre-read requested by the coach. However, I do know of a case where the Ivy coach has overstepped his bounds by offering prematurely and this had led to serious problems for the recruit. It took the recruit months to get his recruiting momentum back but he is on the verge of committing to one of four excellent schools at this time.
The Likely Letter is meant to compete with D1 scholarship National Letters of Intent. Every year there are a handfful of recruits fortunate enough to choose between an Ivy and a D1 school. The Likely Letter is an assurance the recruit will be admitted thereby reducing risk. Without a Likely Letter there are less assurances but typically the recruit is supported by the Coach (as a slotted athlete) with the recruits Early Decision application.
My son was very late to the Ivy process as he was considering a few D1 schools. Serendipidity stepped in, and we started on a new path after HeadFirst after my son had turned down some D1 offers. If I had known what I know now, we would have never waited that long and we probably would have been done 6 months before my son verbally committed to an Ivy in 2009. My son's school had 5 Likely Letters and 3 slots with coaches support in his recruiting class. Five LLs still seems to be a very normal number for Ivy baseball teams per year, and I follow this pretty closely.
There is a lot to this process, and it can be very confusing and nerve wracking. This inexpensive book does a very good job of explaining most questions you may be having right now.
https://www.amazon.com/Essenti...336419915&sr=8-1
I hope this helps. Let us know if you have further questions.
FenwaySouth, Gov and Ripken Fan -- so much good information. Thank you all. Really appreciate your time and the details. Will keep you posted.
smokeminside posted:Just a follow up question which I hope is germaine. My understanding has been that Ivy's would not tell a kid they would commit to him before his jr. grades and test scores were complete. Is that inaccurate?
This is not accurate, although it has generally been the case (italicized words being the key). My son was offered by an Ivy 2 days before Christmas of his Junior year. They had seen him throw 3 or 4x, he got the SAT score that they told him he needed (got that score that very day, in fact...they told him if he met or exceeded a certain score, they were going to offer immediately, and they did exactly that), his GPA was strong and they liked the rigorous HS class schedule that he was taking (lots of APs). It was certainly unusually early for his school. But, I think you have and will see more of this, especially for pitchers. But, like all "commitments", thereafter, he had to keep up his end of the bargain in the class room. The Ivy coaches just have to be clear what that means, and in my son's case, they certainly were.
I've said this before: The high academic kids should consider taking the SAT/ACT early! My 2019 took it last Spring.
BaseballinCT posted:I've said this before: The high academic kids should consider taking the SAT/ACT early! My 2019 took it last Spring.
Bingo! Yahtzee! Winner, winner, chicken dinner. It is a no brainer, and allows you to get ahead of the crowd. Just takes some organization, prep, resourcefulness, etc. Give them the info they need, if you have what they want (if that makes sense). SAT/ACT prep courses summer after sophomore year, take SAT/ACT (either or both) 1 or 2x Fall/Winter of junior year. My son took the SAT 2x within about a month. He came up short the first time and then scrambled to get in late the very next date they were offered. Nailed it the 2nd time.
BaseballinCT posted:I've said this before: The high academic kids should consider taking the SAT/ACT early! My 2019 took it last Spring.
Concur...everybody's version of early different. Ideally if a player has the academic chops he should plan to take a Sept-Oct of junior year ACT-SAT. The parent needs to make sure their kid is taking the best prep type classes they can the few months prior. My kid was very disciplined, yet, there wasn't a chance he'd sit down and power through an online program or books on his own... after having June and July off and playing tons of baseball the last thing he wanted was having to study. So tutoring started the beginning of August, and he still took the ACT four times, gaining a point with every test. A lot of the tutors get booked up fast.
His first ACT score was good enough to show the Ivy Coaches that he was a candidate. But again, they are looking for baseball players who happen to be smart. Get stronger, faster, better, sooner....
