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The Ivy"s that had regular dialogues with my son during his junior year became more serious after the results of his 2nd ACT was posted.His previous score was a bit under what they needed for a student athlete.This was June 8th of 2013.By mid August they had all made a decision.Some of them watched my son play at 3 different events in that time span as well.
All of the IVY coaches that my son dealt with informed him of their final decision.None of them left him hanging.A teammate of my son received a couple of offers from IVY's during The Stanford All Star Camp.
My son liked all of the IVY coaches that he met especially Coach Marsh of Cornell.He always responded to questions and emails,and was the first one to congratulate him on his last ACT score.Also,he's a fellow SoCal from Surf City...Huntington Beach for all you non locals
It also helped my son after ACT scores came back and he was able to advise schools prior to Stanford camp and Headfirst that he met their minimums. He did not have enough for Harvard, Yale or Princeton though, (as we were told he needed at least a 30 and he was just short).
Many of the Ivy schools will make their decision mid summer. Grades and test scores are their main issue. I would suggest going to each of the schools that are being considered. My 2015 is being considered and is considering a couple of the Ivy schools. The coaches have been upfront with him and lay out what they expect.
kevkev29,
Mostly, the time frame is determined by your son's baseball level, board scores and desire to attend one of these schools. Best case for your son is he is a stud, has the necessary SAT/ACT board scores, and is willing to forego other D1 offers for an Ivy. If any Ivy coach sees those things lineup...right now, he sees a green light and could be offering. Finanical aid is another discussion for another day. I've worked with many folks on this board (and others) with their Ivy recruitment, and it varies. Overall, the recruitment timeframe is moving up like the rest of D1 which is why I would advise some Ivy recruits to try to get the necessary SAT/ACT in the Fall of junior year if they are comfortable and confident. This has the potential to separate your son from the field for Ivys and other schools.
In addition, I think there is a slight variance in Ivy recruiting on the West coast and East coast venues, recruit numbers and timing. 5 years ago my son was a late comer (> August) to the Ivy process, but he still had two Ivy offers. Today, I think my son's situation would be much different in terms of the process. It is essential to get in front of these coaches, let them know who you are, stay in touch and let them know what you bring to the table athletically and academically. If your son has what it takes on the baseball field, the classroom and the right exposure strategy...they may be interested. These ivy coaches have a very tough job, and every year they don't get all the recruits they want because Admission's says "no". I think you'll start to hear of early Ivy commits starting in the next few months with the bulk being in June/July after the high D1's and mid-D1's go through their commits.
Good luck, and feel free to PM me with any questions.
kevkev,
You asked about where a kid with Ivy interest was seen...
My 2012 son had "offers" from many of the Ivy's. Things have changed a little bit since then, as several schools (Brown, Cornell, Penn, Yale) were doing showcases with a couple other primarily academic schools and called their showcase "GPA Baseball". Son was seen by those schools there.
He also was offered by two Ivy's after the PG National Academic Showcase. Ditto two more at the Headfirst Honor Roll Camp (now I see one or more of the GPA Showcase schools resuming their participation in Headfirst).
The Princeton Camp was referenced to us as very good and included participation from neighboring schools. But we did not attend that. Typically late July or early August timeframe.
Son did the February Harvard bubble camp (quite a story in its own right) and there were a lot of neighboring schools attending that too.
All the Ivy's do the prospect camp thing, sometimes more than one time per year. But we found it was not necessary to attend one of those to be offered. However, we ultimately visited most of the campuses at some point in the journey.
They all saw him play at The Stanford All Star Camp.Some of them saw him play at The Area Code Games tryouts and at The San Gabriel Arsenal SoCal Cup.
What kind of SAT, ACT scores do the Ivies and similar academic schools look for a student athlete? Does anyone have actual experience. My son is a strong student but without athletics would unlikely get in straight up. He has taken the SATs once. Taking again in a few weeks, and ACTs in April. We are expecting to finish with SATs in the 600s in each category. Looking to go to school for business. We are tying determine what level of academic schools to shoot for in the recruiting process. In the north east there are so many options to look at with similar academic requirements. DI Ivies & Patriot, and DIII Centennial, and NESCAC.
His best friend is an excellent student and could likely get in nearly anywhere, and wants to go pre-med and play baseball. He is a 6-1 RHP that throws 86 and went 7-1 as a Soph on a Varsity team that only 12 games. Not Major D1 we understand but ridiculous grades and test scores makes him attractive. I my thoughts are for is friend would be to go to a DIII because of the demands of his major, and he will excel as a player. Any thoughts?
What kind of SAT, ACT scores do the Ivies and similar academic schools look for a student athlete? Does anyone have actual experience. My son is a strong student but without athletics would unlikely get in straight up. He has taken the SATs once. Taking again in a few weeks, and ACTs in April. We are expecting to finish with SATs in the 600s in each category. Looking to go to school for business. We are tying determine what level of academic schools to shoot for in the recruiting process. In the north east there are so many options to look at with similar academic requirements. DI Ivies & Patriot, and DIII Centennial, and NESCAC.
His best friend is an excellent student and could likely get in nearly anywhere, and wants to go pre-med and play baseball. He is a 6-1 RHP that throws 86 and went 7-1 as a Soph on a Varsity team that only 12 games. Not Major D1 we understand but ridiculous grades and test scores makes him attractive. I my thoughts are for is friend would be to go to a DIII because of the demands of his major, and he will excel as a player. Any thoughts?
When my son decided he wanted to use his baseball talents as a way to gain acceptance into a high academic school his ACT score was 26.He was targeting all of the leagues you mentioned.Every coach that was actively recruiting him advised him that he would need to get that score higher in order to have a legitimate shot with admissions.Some of them said they could work with a 29 while others told him they would need to see at least a 31 score.
He took the ACT one more time and scored high enough to qualify for any of schools that were recruiting him.That being said,without baseball as a "hook" it would have been difficult to be admitted to the school that he will be attending next fall.These schools deny applicants who have higher scores and GPA's than my son every year.
Not every recruited athlete has a 30 or above ACT test score at these schools.Two of my son's HS teammates are playing in the Ivy League right now.Neither of them scored that high.Every case is different.The academic index comes into play as do some other variables.FenwaySouth,Leftyshortstop,and Bransonbaseball are better versed on the nuts and bolts of this somewhat mysterious process.
Hope this helps .
Fenway South is THE expert on Ivy League admissions and baseball. Our 2012 son plays in the Ivy League and Fenway provided tons of valuable information. Regarding your question on what it takes to get I would recommend you type Academic Index or AI in the search box. Fenway has at least one great post on what it takes to get in. At the end of the day a player with excellent baseball skills is usually able to get in with lower test scores than a solid but not outstanding player; no surprise I guess.
You sons friend sounds like an excellent fit for Ivy schools. Throwing quite hard for a sophomore and excellent test scores is a good combo.
Good Luck!
What kind of SAT, ACT scores do the Ivies and similar academic schools look for a student athlete? Does anyone have actual experience. My son is a strong student but without athletics would unlikely get in straight up. He has taken the SATs once. Taking again in a few weeks, and ACTs in April. We are expecting to finish with SATs in the 600s in each category. Looking to go to school for business. We are tying determine what level of academic schools to shoot for in the recruiting process. In the north east there are so many options to look at with similar academic requirements. DI Ivies & Patriot, and DIII Centennial, and NESCAC.
Phillyball,
Although you didn't ask the question, he needs to be a genuine D1 caliber recruit to play Ivy and Patriot. So assuming he has that, I'll provide the following general Ivy baseball guideline off the top of my head. Your mileage may vary. Bare in mind there is a lot more that goes into Ivy admission decisions that are not determined by the coach directly.
3 x 600s - must be deemed a baseball stud for admission to Br, Col, Corn, Dart, Penn
3 x 650s - must be deemed very good player to B, Col, Cor, Dart, Penn, must be deemed a stud for HYP baseball
3x 700s - should be good enough to get into all Ivys with the right baseball talent.
I'd strongly suggest you see a few Ivy games to determine if it is a fit. The non-conference season starts next weekend with conference play beginning March 29th. Good luck!
Thank you, that’s pretty helpful. We have been told he is a D1 player but not a blue chip, as far as numbers. He puts up good numbers but as a Jr. is only 5-7, 170, pretty fast but not a burner. He is young for his class, some kids a whole year older. As a measure his high school team puts 1 or 2 players in D-1 every year and one or two in D-2, but not blue chip D-1, Navy, Radford, GW, Nova. Penn State. Several have done well. Penn has expressed some interest but I know he will not get in to Penn for business. A lot obviously rides on this year and how he does on ACT and SATs in the next couple of months. There are a lot of schools in our target range we don’t want to waste time targeting schools he won't get into. The plan is to see some games but unfortually those leagues play many of their games during the week and the same time school ball is playing.
Fenway is the guru on this stuff. My info is anecdotal. Son was 28 ACT, 9.0 PG rating. Offers from most of the Ivy's including 2 of HYP. But every school has different needs and the times continue to change.
Fenway noted that a player needs to be of genuine D1 caliber. I have to echo that. My guy was offered by all but the Pac12 and SEC. He's no superstar. But the talent level is legit everywhere including the Ivys. The ACT/SAT scores are higher, but these kids can play too.
. The ACT/SAT scores are higher, but these kids can play too.
I agree. Some of these kids can really play, however the talent is not as deep as some of the higher level conferences (as we would expect).
Phillyball,
You are correct. It probably will come down to SAT or ACT scores for your son....it usually does for most people considering this path. Many that know me have often heard me refer to Ivy recruiting process as a "guantlet". However, if you make it through the "guantlet", you could have some leverage with multiple Ivys. That is a really good thing.
Some of the best Ivy position players I've seen over the last few years are not physical specimens. They have a smaller strike zone. If you walk them you're screwed. If you pitch to them they can hit, and some of them can hit for power. These guys have incredible hands and timing. Size is for the "TV confererences"; ACC, PAC10, Big12 and SEC. 
.
You specifically mentioned Penn business. I wouldn't necessarily cross any college off the list for any reason until you know for sure. Trust me on this. My son applied into an Ivy engineering school with a 7% admission rate. One of the reasons I think he got in was because he throws a baseball very fast. Never underestimate the Ivy athletic hook if your son can back it up with academic and athletic credentials. JMO.
Ivy conference games are weekends only, so you should be able to see a few games. Penn's home games are March 29/30 (Yale/Brown), April 12-13 (Cornell) and April 25-26 (Columbia). They play a 7 and 9 inning double header on Sat and Sunday for 5 weeks. If your son is interested in Penn, now is a good time to show that interest by reaching out to the coaches and getting some face time with them at a few games. They have a new coach who wants to turn the program around in the (currently) tougher Gehrig division (Columbia, Cornell, Princeton). He is going to need talent, and now.
Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.
SAT changes coming. Going to be interesting for us if my son does not ace it next year and has to take the new version in 2016 with different scoring and such.
They are going old school. I like it. It's been shown in scientific studies that the essay portion is crap. Whoever writes the most words gets the highest score, even if it's word salad.
And now, when I tell my kids I got 1420 on my SAT back in the day they won't think I'm a moron.
Curious to see how the schools are going to handle the picking of choosing top scores from multiple tests when the tests are not the same from 15' to 16'.
Curious to see how the schools are going to handle the picking of choosing top scores from multiple tests when the tests are not the same from 15' to 16'.
The schools will adapt just fine by normalizing based on grad year. For my oldest son the two ivys (I'm most familiar with) told son us they didn't even look at the essay section scores.
My youngest son is a 2015, and I'd be more concerned for any students taking one style of test their junior year and possibly another style their senior year.
They are going old school. I like it. It's been shown in scientific studies that the essay portion is crap. Whoever writes the most words gets the highest score, even if it's word salad.
And now, when I tell my kids I got 1420 on my SAT back in the day they won't think I'm a moron.
If any of you have seen some of the word requirements of the old SAT you would be amazed. I graduated top of my class in college, did very well a top national law school, and I have been practicing law for 20 years. When I went to my daughter's SAT prep class I did not recognize a substantial portion of the words that were being used on the test. If I have never seen or heard of the words being used (given my education and vocation), maybe high school kids do not need to be tested on it as it provides no basis to determine success in college.
They are going old school. I like it. It's been shown in scientific studies that the essay portion is crap. Whoever writes the most words gets the highest score, even if it's word salad.
And now, when I tell my kids I got 1420 on my SAT back in the day they won't think I'm a moron.
If any of you have seen some of the word requirements of the old SAT you would be amazed. I graduated top of my class in college, did very well a top national law school, and I have been practicing law for 20 years. When I went to my daughter's SAT prep class I did not recognize a substantial portion of the words that were being used on the test. If I have never seen or heard of the words being used (given my education and vocation), maybe high school kids do not need to be tested on it as it provides no basis to determine success in college.
Maybe I shouldn't go down this hole, but I think there is value in testing the ability to determine the meaning of words through context and usage. I think this demonstrates interpretive and analytic skills that are useful in college, and learning in general. If the SAT is reduced to testing what has been taught and learned, then it would have no basis for determining success in college.
This thread is a few years old now. Any new insights on the Ivy's? Specifically, are the ACT/SAT score requirements the same (from the above looks like 31 minimum, although lower is possible) and what is the timing of likely letters? Do Ivy's do unofficial visits even before junior grades completed? If offers are being made at Stanford and HeadFirst, does that mean that the Coach has a likely letter in his hands? Any guidance is appreciated.
I wonder whatever happened to Kauaidad and his son. It sounded like his son was on an interesting path.
Midwest Mom,
Likely Letters are sent to the recruit by Admissions after Oct 1 of senior year. There is a lot of things that must happen prior to a coach recommending a recruit to Admissions for a Likely Letter. These do not grow on trees. Unofficial visits can and do happen just about any time, and there is a lot of flexibility.
NCAA Definition: Unofficial visit: Any visit by you and your parents to a college campus paid for by you or your parents. The only expense you may receive from the college is three complimentary admissions to a Division I home athletics contest or five complimentary admissions to a Division II home athletics contest. You may make as many unofficial visits as you like and may take those visits at any time. The only time you cannot talk with a coach during an unofficial visit is during a dead period.
Good luck!
Thank you FenwaySouth. This is helpful. So when an Ivy Coach is offering at a Stanford or a HeadFirst, it's before the likely letter and still fairly uncertain? Or, by that time does the Coach already believe the player can be admitted based on grades and test scores?
To add to what FenwaySouth said, the coach will be able to have Admissions issue up to 7 or 8 Likely Letters for a given recruiting class (well, a better way to put it is that the baseball coach can support 7 or 8; it is Admissions that issues the Likely Letters). There is no situation where there are 20+ baseball commits in a single recruiting class.
In terms of the timeline moving up, as of a couple weeks ago, an Ivy RC said "we are currently putting the final touches on the high school Class of 2018 recruiting class" -- so as a guestimate maybe one spot left for 2018s? Maybe two? Like most D1s, by now they are focused more on 2019s (and of course some of the Power 5s are focused on 2020s).
These are from a few years ago but are good:
Thanks 2019Dad. Since it seems like recruiting timelines in Ivy's are moving up, I'm just wondering if and how the process has modified. One Ivy HC told my son in June that he liked what he saw in grades and on the field but needed to see ACT scores (he's taking the ACT in December). Just not sure what happens once those scores are in hand over what time frame. Also looking at other D1s and D3s -- just getting into the process now so sure it will be a wild ride. Love seeing posts from people who have been through it and those who are in the same situation with 2019s.
Thanks MidwestMom. The real experts here are folks like Fenway South. But I'm learning. 
Key takeaway from that NY Times article: it is a recruiting class's Academic Index, not an individual's (though there is a floor of 176) that a coach has to meet. So -- I'm just making this up but you'll get the idea -- a RHP topping out at 88 mph might be told that he needs a 32 ACT, whereas a RHP topping out at 92 mph might be told he needs a 28 ACT. The better the player the closer he can be to the minimum Academic Index score (176).
Sort of 2019Dad. Definitely the higher the baseball ability, the more leniency in scores/grades with scores mattering more in the Ivy Academic Index. Yale RC says all the time they have an average AC score of 31. That means some higher, some lower, and depending how much lower it means the onus is on the coach to keep the balance. One of my sons with a near perfect SAT score was told by an Ivy coach (in another sport), and I quote him directly, "If I take you, I can take 2 dumbasses." In 2017 there were PG posted (self reported of course and not verified!) ACT scores as low as 26 where the player reported an Ivy commitment. Gotta think they were highly desirable on the baseball front. Of course one has to wonder if a low score on these standardized tests indicate that highly rigorous academic environments would be the best fit, but that's not for me to judge.
Also the number of slots is different by school and by year. In 2017, one Ivy had only 5 slots, while most seemed to have 7. I believe all Ivies now able to take transfers (Princeton was last to cave here) so that is a growing chunk of their recruiting classes too.
But to answer the questions, offers usually only come after a pre read from admissions where they let the coach know that the recruit is admissable. It is just too hard to give anyone any kind of offer without knowing that admission to ANY highly selective school (not just D1) gives the coach the green light.
Midwest Mom: Here's a couple of excerpts from Tucker Frawley's blog. He is the Recruiting Coordinator for Yale. It addresses some of your questions.
https://www.frawleybaseball.co...e-Recruiting-Process
https://www.frawleybaseball.co...cademics-vs-Baseball
Lots of good info on the blog. It's from one of the eight schools though the schools recruiting methods have similarities.
2019Dad's articles were OK too. Fewer HS's now are ranking students which used to be part of one version of the Academic Index Formula. Fenway was spot on about likely letters. Most of the final recruiting spots in 2019 class will take place June-August next year, after HF camps. (Recruiting for P, C and power hitters may be earlier)
Just a follow up question which I hope is germaine. My understanding has been that Ivy's would not tell a kid they would commit to him before his jr. grades and test scores were complete. Is that inaccurate?
smokeminside posted:Just a follow up question which I hope is germaine. My understanding has been that Ivy's would not tell a kid they would commit to him before his jr. grades and test scores were complete. Is that inaccurate?
Smoke, I know that PG currently shows one commit for Princeton and two for Penn in the 2019 class . . .
With 2018 we've been in the middle of the high academic and Ivy recruiting process. If you have a 2019 understand that the timeline for Ivy recruiting has moved up: the Ivy's are identifying impact playing juniors now. If your 2019 junior has the academic strength and high level baseball skills where he would standout quickly, try to get him to a fall Ivy camp. There are still a few left; your son will have a chance to spend 2 days under the watchful eyes of all the coaches and possibly start developing a relationship. At a minimum, when your Junior shows up at the PG Fall Academic, or AZ Fall Junior Classic in Oct, or HF Jupiter in Nov, the Ivy coaches that saw him for 2 days in the fall will be paying attention to him if he stood out during the fall camp.
Off season of junior year: last big off season to get stronger and faster
These coaches are baseball guys first! They are looking for ball players with hopes they'll have the grades and min ACT scores to get through admissions. No C's, along with a 27-28 ACT can get a kid into Cornell, Brown, Columbia, Penn, or Dartmouth... Coaches will be more aggressive with kids they like early in the recruiting process.
Princeton HC stated point blank, at the recent Showball HC Camp that their timeline for identifying juniors is much earlier than in the prior year. If your kid has a few D1 tools, good grade transcripts thus far, and a desire to attend a top academic school like an Ivy, again, I'd suggest getting him to a fall and or winter camp so he can start to get noticed, then plan to attend the other showcases I mentioned above.
We didn't think the fall junior year camps were that big of a deal and chose to keep the net cast wide with all recruiting events. It was a mistake, we needed to blend a few larger showcases along with the individual camps of my sons highly targeted schools to increase his chances. If you are a Pitcher and wait for the winter camps you'll conflict with the arm having been shut down and needing the proper time to ramp back up. Also, bats will not be as primed as they were during the fall.
JMO with very recent experience. Looks like my 2018 is destined for a high academic D3, and that is still, a great thing, just not quite what my 2018 had originally hoped for.
(Excuse any grammar violations, rushing this before work....)
Cheers.
Edit: had to correct few mistakes, but messaging the same.
MidWest Mom,
In my experience, Ivy offers come after SAT/ACT scores are in. There is no way an Ivy can offer without Admissions signing off on a pre-read requested by the coach. However, I do know of a case where the Ivy coach has overstepped his bounds by offering prematurely and this had led to serious problems for the recruit. It took the recruit months to get his recruiting momentum back but he is on the verge of committing to one of four excellent schools at this time.
The Likely Letter is meant to compete with D1 scholarship National Letters of Intent. Every year there are a handfful of recruits fortunate enough to choose between an Ivy and a D1 school. The Likely Letter is an assurance the recruit will be admitted thereby reducing risk. Without a Likely Letter there are less assurances but typically the recruit is supported by the Coach (as a slotted athlete) with the recruits Early Decision application.
My son was very late to the Ivy process as he was considering a few D1 schools. Serendipidity stepped in, and we started on a new path after HeadFirst after my son had turned down some D1 offers. If I had known what I know now, we would have never waited that long and we probably would have been done 6 months before my son verbally committed to an Ivy in 2009. My son's school had 5 Likely Letters and 3 slots with coaches support in his recruiting class. Five LLs still seems to be a very normal number for Ivy baseball teams per year, and I follow this pretty closely.
There is a lot to this process, and it can be very confusing and nerve wracking. This inexpensive book does a very good job of explaining most questions you may be having right now.
https://www.amazon.com/Essenti...336419915&sr=8-1
I hope this helps. Let us know if you have further questions.
FenwaySouth, Gov and Ripken Fan -- so much good information. Thank you all. Really appreciate your time and the details. Will keep you posted.
smokeminside posted:Just a follow up question which I hope is germaine. My understanding has been that Ivy's would not tell a kid they would commit to him before his jr. grades and test scores were complete. Is that inaccurate?
This is not accurate, although it has generally been the case (italicized words being the key). My son was offered by an Ivy 2 days before Christmas of his Junior year. They had seen him throw 3 or 4x, he got the SAT score that they told him he needed (got that score that very day, in fact...they told him if he met or exceeded a certain score, they were going to offer immediately, and they did exactly that), his GPA was strong and they liked the rigorous HS class schedule that he was taking (lots of APs). It was certainly unusually early for his school. But, I think you have and will see more of this, especially for pitchers. But, like all "commitments", thereafter, he had to keep up his end of the bargain in the class room. The Ivy coaches just have to be clear what that means, and in my son's case, they certainly were.
I've said this before: The high academic kids should consider taking the SAT/ACT early! My 2019 took it last Spring.
BaseballinCT posted:I've said this before: The high academic kids should consider taking the SAT/ACT early! My 2019 took it last Spring.
Bingo! Yahtzee! Winner, winner, chicken dinner. It is a no brainer, and allows you to get ahead of the crowd. Just takes some organization, prep, resourcefulness, etc. Give them the info they need, if you have what they want (if that makes sense). SAT/ACT prep courses summer after sophomore year, take SAT/ACT (either or both) 1 or 2x Fall/Winter of junior year. My son took the SAT 2x within about a month. He came up short the first time and then scrambled to get in late the very next date they were offered. Nailed it the 2nd time.
BaseballinCT posted:I've said this before: The high academic kids should consider taking the SAT/ACT early! My 2019 took it last Spring.
Concur...everybody's version of early different. Ideally if a player has the academic chops he should plan to take a Sept-Oct of junior year ACT-SAT. The parent needs to make sure their kid is taking the best prep type classes they can the few months prior. My kid was very disciplined, yet, there wasn't a chance he'd sit down and power through an online program or books on his own... after having June and July off and playing tons of baseball the last thing he wanted was having to study. So tutoring started the beginning of August, and he still took the ACT four times, gaining a point with every test. A lot of the tutors get booked up fast.
His first ACT score was good enough to show the Ivy Coaches that he was a candidate. But again, they are looking for baseball players who happen to be smart. Get stronger, faster, better, sooner....
BucsFan posted:smokeminside posted:Just a follow up question which I hope is germaine. My understanding has been that Ivy's would not tell a kid they would commit to him before his jr. grades and test scores were complete. Is that inaccurate?
This is not accurate, although it has generally been the case (italicized words being the key). My son was offered by an Ivy 2 days before Christmas of his Junior year. They had seen him throw 3 or 4x, he got the SAT score that they told him he needed (got that score that very day, in fact...they told him if he met or exceeded a certain score, they were going to offer immediately, and they did exactly that), his GPA was strong and they liked the rigorous HS class schedule that he was taking (lots of APs). It was certainly unusually early for his school. But, I think you have and will see more of this, especially for pitchers. But, like all "commitments", thereafter, he had to keep up his end of the bargain in the class room. The Ivy coaches just have to be clear what that means, and in my son's case, they certainly were.
Such good company on this thread regarding this topic I feel the need chime in.
Only thing I will add regarding early commitment for IVY, ie. "before his Jr. grades and test scores were complete."
Yes, the ACT/SAT is a must. That has to be in place. Ivy admissions offices can not do an official pre-read on a candidate until AFTER July 1 of their rising Senior year. Not sure if that's NCAA or Ivy League policy? So a coach may "eyeball" a transcript and test score before July 1 of rising Sr year and offer based on their seasoned and trained eye from years of doing it. But it is not a perfect science. And if the prospect is a "bubble guy" meaning he is NOT a 4.0+ guy with 33+ACT score (for HYP anyway), the recruit is incurring a lot of risk. All of it.
The Ivy process can be somewhat straightforward if you are a legit 4.0+, 33+ACT candidate (again for HYP mostly) with baseball skills desired.
It can, however, be extremely treacherous if the player is a 3.7 to 3.9 GPA with 28-32 ACTs (or comparable SAT). I do not recommend committing to an Ivy if your player fits this profile until after July 1 of rising Sr. year. You can look, talk, inquire, but be careful about taking yourself off the market before an official pre-read by the Ivy admissions office of school offering. Again that can not happen until after July 1 of rising senior year.
I am not saying if you are a 3.7 to 3.9, 28-32ACT guy there's no room for you in Ivy recruiting. No, not at all. Look up guys in the IVY league on PG and you'll see a wide range of GPAs and test scores for all 8 schools. It's just the guys on the lower academic end are playing with fire to commit to an Ivy before an official admissions office pre-read can be done and that is only after July 1 of rising Sr. year.
After lurking for a bit I just officially joined HSBBweb! Just wanted to make a first post thanking the contributors for all of the great insight and advice!! This thread re: Ivy League recruiting is particularly helpful for our situation - my 2019 LHP is interested in an Ivy and preparing for the September ACT as we speak. Based on this thread, it seems like he could be a bubble Ivy academics wise - 3.8+ GPA, AP classes and in ACT practice tests he projects to get around a 29 or 30 (hopefully). So no slam dunk by any means, but at least worthy of a look. He is very interested but also realistic that Ivy admission is a reach and therefore is casting a wide net.
Thanks again for the information and I look forward to sharing any knowledge that we gain in this process FWIW. As for the desired Ivy, I think darling son will reach out after September 1st to see if there is any real interest, or perhaps wait until he gets his ACT score and, assuming its north of 29, reach out then? He was at their Fall camp last year, and they've seen him at two other events.
BaseballinCT posted:I've said this before: The high academic kids should consider taking the SAT/ACT early! My 2019 took it last Spring.
Son took his SAT at the first offering when school started his junior year. His thought was he would be in "school mode" then, but not buried so much with heavy homework/projects because school just started. Turned out it was a good plan. Helped to have score in hand for big December showcase.
From Tucker Frawley: https://files.armssoftware.com/1848775/55ad036ae093
Good info in there
From Tucker Frawley: https://files.armssoftware.com/1848775/55ad036ae093
Good info in there
Yep that seems consistent with the information here on HSBBW. Pretty high standards - yikes! And to think these test score, gpa and related standards are "below" those of a typical admitted freshman at Yale... I think it is a great goal to shoot for, but also want to be careful not to create undue pressure on our 2019 re: Ivy admission -- as it is beyond selective.
QHead,
So, I look at it this way. ivy baseball is extremely selective, but not all that complicated. It is about risk management. If your son is a genuine D1-caliber talent with 29-30 ACT then he has a chance (with a fair amount of risk) to be recruited by Ivys. If he is able to move that academic needle incrementally up, he reduces that risk ever so slightly, and their interest turns from casual interest to serious interest. A lot of this understanding your son's numbers and talent level relative to others competing for those same Ivy slots...there aren't many. There are a handful of folks on this board that started where your son's numbers project but ended up in the low 30s ACT and seriously recruited by Ivys. However, it is first extremely important for your son to a project as a D1 talent . That is what they are looking for, then their next question will be about grades and future plans. Good luck!
I think another component of risk management is your willingness to wait for an Ivy offer at the expense of passing on other offers now. My 2019 was getting what I think was legitimate interest from a few Ivies beginning last spring through the summer. They let us know his grades are where they need to be and his SAT score (taken early!) was in range. I was crazy excited. But by August he had offers from a handful of D-1 schools including a high academic in a power 5 conference. Across the board, it was made pretty clear to us that the scholarship money would not be available forever. So do you pass and hope for the Ivy offers next spring or fall? Will the non-Ivy offers still be on the table in a year even if the scholarship money is gone? Son decided he didn't want to risk it and committed to the HA. He is thrilled and his mom and I supported his decision. Bird in the hand...
Ageed BaseballinCT, and that is exactly my point. If the ivys know a recruit is sought after at the D-1 level their interest quickly turns to someone like your son or others who have the metrics to be admitted. Then it is up to the recruit to know exactly what they are looking for in a program or college. In my son's case, he went in the other direction and took one of two Ivy offers. This is one of those things I'm constantly PMing with others and that is to know what you want before it happens. It is great to have choices, but knowing what you want ahead of time makes a very bumpy ride a little smoother.
What son saw was that once D1 interest materialized into offers (especially from one school) the timetable of the Ivy accelerated. Gets back to knowing where you are on "the board"and as Fenway said knowing what you want. Recruiting is a long drawn out process. Son couldn't get over how fast things end, once they do.
2019Dad posted:smokeminside posted:Just a follow up question which I hope is germaine. My understanding has been that Ivy's would not tell a kid they would commit to him before his jr. grades and test scores were complete. Is that inaccurate?
Smoke, I know that PG currently shows one commit for Princeton and two for Penn in the 2019 class . . .
Three now for Penn. And it stands to reason that if three have announced commitments, others may have been offered.
For those who have been through Ivy recruiting, when it's relatively early in the process -- well, I would've thought September of junior year is relatively early, but given what is going on with Penn, maybe it's not -- how forthcoming were the coaches in answering a "where am I on your board?" question? I mean, are they trying to lock down recruits early (like most schools) or are they waiting for test scores?
2019Dad posted:Three now for Penn. And it stands to reason that if three have announced commitments, others may have been offered.
For those who have been through Ivy recruiting, when it's relatively early in the process -- well, I would've thought September of junior year is relatively early, but given what is going on with Penn, maybe it's not -- how forthcoming were the coaches in answering a "where am I on your board?" question? I mean, are they trying to lock down recruits early (like most schools) or are they waiting for test scores?
To my earlier point and post, these are probably commits that are getting strong interest from other D1 schools or even other Ivys. If these recruits/commits have extremely strong academics then there may be a fit here, and my question to them would be....did you consider Stanford? However, if they don't have those very strong academics there is a risk, and it falls 100% on the recruit.
If this was my kid, and I knew what I know now there were be a definitive plan B and C if he was committing to an Ivy this early. My son had strong academics, but to commit this far in advance (unnecessarily) would not have been a good idea for him. I hope that adds some context. As always, JMO.
2019 Dad
Our 2017 visited Penn in the fall of his junior year, on a day off from school. Met with the RC as they had seen him at Stanford and had been in touch with him. Had a terrific meeting, RC mentioned coming to see him play in the spring since HS was only a few hours away. We knew they already had 3-4 "announced on PG" commits at that time, regional and local kids actually. Son had scores and grades. Did not ask where am I on board question as it was apparent they were very interested, and would want to see him play again, and planned to do so.
What we didn't know is later that same day after we were home, another kid announced his commitment on social media (friend of a friend saw it and passed it on), same position, same basic metrics that SAME DAY...
Son kept in close touch with them, coaches never came in the spring to see him play though. Did see Penn at Selectfest, Stanford and maybe WWBA or at least one other event but not sure how much they watched son, but they did stay in touch till the very end...never offered, just kept him around in the stable as I like to call it, in case maybe another recruit they really wanted fell through...
So to answer your question, Penn goes very early, as does Columbia. And don't forget Penn doesn't go to HF in the summer so they don't get that extra 1500+ boys to wade through. They also tend to add transfers to their incoming class.
These "early" commits likely already have test scores, or even PSAT scores that indicate they will hit the score they need on the SAT or ACT. The trend is earlier, not just for these two schools either.
And most of the Ivy commits do not announce this on PG. Some prefer to wait until they have their likely letter (not issued till fall of senior year) and some just do not use PG. There are more commits than announced on PG for sure. For example, 4 announced for Columbia on PG but 8 guys announced in incoming class, see http://www.gocolumbialions.com...amp;ATCLID=211660350 . You can see 2 are transfers...
TWOBOYS that is really helpful information & perspective. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Twoboys posted:2019 Dad
Our 2017 visited Penn in the fall of his junior year, on a day off from school. Met with the RC as they had seen him at Stanford and had been in touch with him. Had a terrific meeting, RC mentioned coming to see him play in the spring since HS was only a few hours away. We knew they already had 3-4 "announced on PG" commits at that time, regional and local kids actually. Son had scores and grades. Did not ask where am I on board question as it was apparent they were very interested, and would want to see him play again, and planned to do so.
What we didn't know is later that same day after we were home, another kid announced his commitment on social media (friend of a friend saw it and passed it on), same position, same basic metrics that SAME DAY...
Son kept in close touch with them, coaches never came in the spring to see him play though. Did see Penn at Selectfest, Stanford and maybe WWBA or at least one other event but not sure how much they watched son, but they did stay in touch till the very end...never offered, just kept him around in the stable as I like to call it, in case maybe another recruit they really wanted fell through...
So to answer your question, Penn goes very early, as does Columbia. And don't forget Penn doesn't go to HF in the summer so they don't get that extra 1500+ boys to wade through. They also tend to add transfers to their incoming class.
These "early" commits likely already have test scores, or even PSAT scores that indicate they will hit the score they need on the SAT or ACT. The trend is earlier, not just for these two schools either.
And most of the Ivy commits do not announce this on PG. Some prefer to wait until they have their likely letter (not issued till fall of senior year) and some just do not use PG. There are more commits than announced on PG for sure. For example, 4 announced for Columbia on PG but 8 guys announced in incoming class, see http://www.gocolumbialions.com...amp;ATCLID=211660350 . You can see 2 are transfers...
Great info, thanks! Son took PSAT last October, but hasn't taken the "real" test yet. In your experience, do the the schools ever give a conditional offer? Like, "keep your GPA where it is and get X on the ACT, and you're one of our guys" and then it's up to the kid to achieve said score on the standardized tests?
2019Dad posted:Twoboys posted:2019 Dad
Our 2017 visited Penn in the fall of his junior year, on a day off from school. Met with the RC as they had seen him at Stanford and had been in touch with him. Had a terrific meeting, RC mentioned coming to see him play in the spring since HS was only a few hours away. We knew they already had 3-4 "announced on PG" commits at that time, regional and local kids actually. Son had scores and grades. Did not ask where am I on board question as it was apparent they were very interested, and would want to see him play again, and planned to do so.
What we didn't know is later that same day after we were home, another kid announced his commitment on social media (friend of a friend saw it and passed it on), same position, same basic metrics that SAME DAY...
Son kept in close touch with them, coaches never came in the spring to see him play though. Did see Penn at Selectfest, Stanford and maybe WWBA or at least one other event but not sure how much they watched son, but they did stay in touch till the very end...never offered, just kept him around in the stable as I like to call it, in case maybe another recruit they really wanted fell through...
So to answer your question, Penn goes very early, as does Columbia. And don't forget Penn doesn't go to HF in the summer so they don't get that extra 1500+ boys to wade through. They also tend to add transfers to their incoming class.
These "early" commits likely already have test scores, or even PSAT scores that indicate they will hit the score they need on the SAT or ACT. The trend is earlier, not just for these two schools either.
And most of the Ivy commits do not announce this on PG. Some prefer to wait until they have their likely letter (not issued till fall of senior year) and some just do not use PG. There are more commits than announced on PG for sure. For example, 4 announced for Columbia on PG but 8 guys announced in incoming class, see http://www.gocolumbialions.com...amp;ATCLID=211660350 . You can see 2 are transfers...
Great info, thanks! Son took PSAT last October, but hasn't taken the "real" test yet. In your experience, do the the schools ever give a conditional offer? Like, "keep your GPA where it is and get X on the ACT, and you're one of our guys" and then it's up to the kid to achieve said score on the standardized tests?
This is exactly what happened to a members son...if he gets min x SAT score offer is triggered. He got the score and offer was executed (middle of junior year.) But the timeline would be key... the college coach is not just going to say get this score and get back to me whenever...
Recruiting has time decay and coaches are not going to let six months go by for the kid to get back to them with the x SAT score... while it's easier for them to be flexible with a kid they really like during HS junior year, it is just the fact that in six months they could have found a similar player who already has the needed score.
What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs? Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships? What is the general range of GPA and test scores? If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy? Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP. Top 1000 measurable including speed, position velocity and exit velo. Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet.
2019Dad posted:Twoboys posted:2019 Dad
Our 2017 visited Penn in the fall of his junior year, on a day off from school. Met with the RC as they had seen him at Stanford and had been in touch with him. Had a terrific meeting, RC mentioned coming to see him play in the spring since HS was only a few hours away. We knew they already had 3-4 "announced on PG" commits at that time, regional and local kids actually. Son had scores and grades. Did not ask where am I on board question as it was apparent they were very interested, and would want to see him play again, and planned to do so.
What we didn't know is later that same day after we were home, another kid announced his commitment on social media (friend of a friend saw it and passed it on), same position, same basic metrics that SAME DAY...
Son kept in close touch with them, coaches never came in the spring to see him play though. Did see Penn at Selectfest, Stanford and maybe WWBA or at least one other event but not sure how much they watched son, but they did stay in touch till the very end...never offered, just kept him around in the stable as I like to call it, in case maybe another recruit they really wanted fell through...
So to answer your question, Penn goes very early, as does Columbia. And don't forget Penn doesn't go to HF in the summer so they don't get that extra 1500+ boys to wade through. They also tend to add transfers to their incoming class.
These "early" commits likely already have test scores, or even PSAT scores that indicate they will hit the score they need on the SAT or ACT. The trend is earlier, not just for these two schools either.
And most of the Ivy commits do not announce this on PG. Some prefer to wait until they have their likely letter (not issued till fall of senior year) and some just do not use PG. There are more commits than announced on PG for sure. For example, 4 announced for Columbia on PG but 8 guys announced in incoming class, see http://www.gocolumbialions.com...amp;ATCLID=211660350 . You can see 2 are transfers...
Great info, thanks! Son took PSAT last October, but hasn't taken the "real" test yet. In your experience, do the the schools ever give a conditional offer? Like, "keep your GPA where it is and get X on the ACT, and you're one of our guys" and then it's up to the kid to achieve said score on the standardized tests?
Yes. A 2019 RHP(for whom the school knows much about) was told to keep his GPA at 3.65 and 30 ACT.
Twoboys posted:2019 Dad
Our 2017 visited Penn in the fall of his junior year, on a day off from school. Met with the RC as they had seen him at Stanford and had been in touch with him. Had a terrific meeting, RC mentioned coming to see him play in the spring since HS was only a few hours away. We knew they already had 3-4 "announced on PG" commits at that time, regional and local kids actually. Son had scores and grades. Did not ask where am I on board question as it was apparent they were very interested, and would want to see him play again, and planned to do so.
What we didn't know is later that same day after we were home, another kid announced his commitment on social media (friend of a friend saw it and passed it on), same position, same basic metrics that SAME DAY...
Son kept in close touch with them, coaches never came in the spring to see him play though. Did see Penn at Selectfest, Stanford and maybe WWBA or at least one other event but not sure how much they watched son, but they did stay in touch till the very end...never offered, just kept him around in the stable as I like to call it, in case maybe another recruit they really wanted fell through...
So to answer your question, Penn goes very early, as does Columbia. And don't forget Penn doesn't go to HF in the summer so they don't get that extra 1500+ boys to wade through. They also tend to add transfers to their incoming class.
These "early" commits likely already have test scores, or even PSAT scores that indicate they will hit the score they need on the SAT or ACT. The trend is earlier, not just for these two schools either.
And most of the Ivy commits do not announce this on PG. Some prefer to wait until they have their likely letter (not issued till fall of senior year) and some just do not use PG. There are more commits than announced on PG for sure. For example, 4 announced for Columbia on PG but 8 guys announced in incoming class, see http://www.gocolumbialions.com...amp;ATCLID=211660350 . You can see 2 are transfers...
Great post Twoboys..mirrored much what my 2015 noticed.
Just to clarify -- because this came up in a PM -- the number of commits at an Ivy school is not a concern because of competition on the baseball team. The concern has nothing to do with starting or not starting, or playing time. For 99% of kids -- including mine -- if you're not one of the coach's 7 recruits in any given year, you can't get into the school. Never mind starting, you'll never even be on the roster because you'll never be a student there. You will be rejected by Admissions.
Goblue33 posted:What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs? Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships? What is the general range of GPA and test scores? If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy? Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP. Top 1000 measurable including speed, position velocity and exit velo. Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet.
No scholarships, athletic or academic. However, generous financial aid. Depending on family income, it can be a better deal than a baseball scholarship.
Take Princeton as an example. The cost of attendance for 2017-18 is $67,100 (tuition is $47,140 and the rest is room, board, fees, and expenses). If the family income is $65,000 or less, the student receives a grant to cover the full cost of tuition, fees, room, and board. If the family income is $160,000 or less, the student pays no tuition, so in that situation it can be a better deal than a 50% baseball ride somewhere else.
2019Dad is correct. For most families, Ivy financial aid is a better deal than an athletic scholarship at a lot of schools.
Goblue33 posted:What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs? Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships? What is the general range of GPA and test scores? If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy? Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP. Top 1000 measurable including speed, position velocity and exit velo. Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet.
The best Ivy's in baseball terms have changed a few times over the years: recently, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia.
There are no athletic scholarships for Ivy. They all have tremendous endowments supporting financial need applicants. The financial need is "blind" to the admissions process. Use the net cost calculators for each school. Avg need met is around 47k per year per student. I think the cutoff for financial aid is for incomes under $180k-$220K (I haven't done the calculator in a while). Need blind for Ivy's is similar to need blind for academic D3's and the Dukes and Stanfords.
Range of ACT scores: H,P,Y avg roster score around 31, few kids could be a 28/29, but they'll be a "hard to pass up player" and the HC will balance this player with a recruit who may have a 33/34. Other Ivy's seem to have more flexibility with admissions, taking players as low as a 27 ACT. Look up previous year recruits committing to Ivy's on Perfect Game; you won't see all the commits, but enough to get perspective. GPA's are normally strong, 3.5+, showing work ethic in the class room. Look up the Academic Index used for Ivy's, plus lots of threads on your questions. Use search button on top right.
If he has D1 tools and capability as a PO or position player along with the academic chops he should go for it. Make sure his D1 skills are not just your assessment, get feedback from other coaches and by attending a few cheap camps or showcases. If he's currently a junior you need to be acting now with attending the few Ivy camps slated for Sept and Oct. This is especially important if he's a position player. In showcases you never know how many balls are going to be hit your way in the games, so it's hard for the coaches to get a realistic assessment of your play between the white lines, as well as your field awareness. They'll see the fundamentals during the pro style showcase, but not game actions. Again, if he's a junior there are a few showcases coming up in Oct and early Nov that would be good to attend. AZ Classic, PG Fall Academic, HF and ShB Camps in Nov...
Plenty on this subject in recent posts, punch in key words and phrases in search button above.
Keep him getting stronger and faster... good luck.
2019Dad posted:Goblue33 posted:What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs? Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships? What is the general range of GPA and test scores? If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy? Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP. Top 1000 measurable including speed, position velocity and exit velo. Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet.
No scholarships, athletic or academic. However, generous financial aid. Depending on family income, it can be a better deal than a baseball scholarship.
Take Princeton as an example. The cost of attendance for 2017-18 is $67,100 (tuition is $47,140 and the rest is room, board, fees, and expenses). If the family income is $65,000 or less, the student receives a grant to cover the full cost of tuition, fees, room, and board. If the family income is $160,000 or less, the student pays no tuition, so in that situation it can be a better deal than a 50% baseball ride somewhere else.
So if my income exceeds let's say $200k does that mean my son probably wouldn't get an academic scholarship to an Ivy League School? Are there any showcases that are better for top academic kids than others eg an "academic games" or showcase at top academic school? My son will have no trouble finishing at a top HS with a GPA much higher than 3.5 in advanced AP courses and an ACT over 28. But are you guys collectively saying he still has to be top 5-7 recruit per the HC, and that my income might exclude me from getting aid? Frankly that threshold doesn't seem very high and is biased by where in the country you live. Any travel teams that focus on Ivy League? I've heard US Elite out of PA has a good placement rate at Ivies and they have show interest in one of my kids but we live a few hundred miles away. Thanks !
Goblue33 posted:What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs? Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships? What is the general range of GPA and test scores? If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy? Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP. Top 1000 measurable including speed, position velocity and exit velo. Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet.
The "best Ivy baseball program" may have a different answer depending on what is sought. Baseball facilities? Winning percentage? Ivy titles? Players drafted into MLB? Freshman get time on field? Roster turnover?. If you get enough talented players to come from one or two recruiting classes, games won and standings can change quickly.
Was thinking as Gov mentioned to check AI (Academic Index). There are some HSBBWEB threads on AI. I do think position players and POs have different timetables. PO's are committed early (hit a specific speed, interest from D1s, or later (LHP, pitcher develops.."board changed at a school). Position players generally commit (looking at the 8 Ivies as a whole) commit summer (early or late) before senior year, unless they can "mash.". Some early commit position guys seem to be in the regional area of school, so that they have had several looks/knowledge of a player.
As mentioned all aid is need based.
GoBlue, if a kid is not one of the coach's recruits -- and doesn't have another hook -- then he probably needs a 35-ish score on the ACT, and even then no guarantees. Again, using Princeton as an example, the 25% - 75% range for ACT scores this past year was 31 - 35. But the overwhelming majority of those at the lower end, will have had some hook (e.g., recruited athlete) that enabled them to clear admissions. If you just apply as a regular student without some sort of hook, you need to be on the higher end of the range.
The 99th percentile scores for the ACT start at a score of 33. That's what I meant when I said "For 99% of kids -- including mine -- if you're not one of the coach's 7 recruits in any given year, you can't get into the school."
So if my income exceeds let's say $200k does that mean my son probably wouldn't get an academic scholarship to an Ivy League School? ......
GoBlue: there are zero scholarships to an Ivy. But if you make more than $200K your son may not qualify for any financial aid. You'll have to do the cost calculator, you may be surprised....
Baseball wise: Ivy baseball coaches are looking for baseball players just like any coach. They are looking for D1 skilled players with the smarts. If your kid has both, you need to market your kid via camps, showcases, and possible tournaments (WWBA). A lot of this is timing: is he a position player? is he physically mature or projectable? is he already producing measurables which are D1 level? BUT, at the end, they still need to see him play! You are doing a great thing being on this site to become vested in the recruiting process. You cannot lean on any one coach or program to position your son, they may be able to help, but it doesn't really work that way.
For a team look into the East Coast Clippers. They build a roster of higher academic kids and go play tournaments and have individual workouts at most of the Ivy's and NESCAC schools throughout the month of July. Run by a solid guy I know and met here on this board. Happy to share his info via PM if you'd like.
2019Dad posted:GoBlue, if a kid is not one of the coach's recruits -- and doesn't have another hook -- then he probably needs a 35-ish score on the ACT,
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One MI played against my son in American Legion ball. He wanted to play baseball in the Ivy league (had academic chops, I think he was #1 in his class in HS). Turns out he applied and was accepted to 6- or7 of the Ivies. Nice player with some speed. Walked on to one of the Ivies. His "other hook" which I didn't know about, was that he was one of the best violin players not in state but regionally.
Goblue33 posted:What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs? Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships? What is the general range of GPA and test scores? If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy? Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP. Top 1000 measurable including speed, position velocity and exit velo. Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet.
No question, or answer, addressed life after baseball. Forget which Ivy program is the best (turns out that league championships rotate pretty regularly); ALL Ivy schools allow your son to find a high paying, interesting, first real job - without sacrificing any opportunities to play proball. ALL Ivy schools have networking opportunities which last a lifetime. ALL Ivy schools have access to the top summer leagues (and internships if summer baseball isn't desired).
If a kid has a chance to attend and play baseball at at Ivy, IMO, only Stanford stands higher on the D1 chart. Stanford provides the same opportunities, but in a much more competitive program.
Recognize that the demands of college ball probably means that some form of academic sacrifice will be made - either in major selected or grades earned (most likely both); the same is true in an Ivy program. So, there will be fewer engineers, math majors, physics majors when compared to the general student population; however, that economics degree from any Ivy school opens all doors (Econ degrees were the default degree for baseball players at S's school).
I communicate regularly with coaches. Ivy coaches are making lists early (just like all other coaches). First and foremost, they want baseball players. Ironically, it's easy to identify the studs early; but quite impossible to KNOW who will bring in Ivy test scores - so the lists are in flux until then. (And this allows other players to develop and emerge as potential recruits.) (As others have said, the earlier testing the better; this cuts against what most HS guidance counselors recommend and, therefore, a parent needs to be proactive in preparing their son for the tests in both course selection and test prep. S had finished his testing by September junior year which gave the coaches what each needed.)
Unofficial visits are a great avenue to make a connection with the coaches - but only if you can show the coach he's not wasting your and his time. This means having a decent transcript - even as a 10th grader. For example, a kid with 3 semesters of transcripts can show (a) grades and (b) cirriculum difficulty. While past results are no guarantee of the future, past BAD results knock a player out. So, drop by a school (have S email coach to see if he's there during the visit).
Academic preparation for an Ivy begins early (no need to get into that yet) and by end of ninth grade an honest assessment will tell a family if son has a shot to clear the academic bar.
On the financial front, each family is unique. Ivy FA is probably the best in the country; but for those families earning a bit too much, you will be squeezed like a stone until nothing is left; we got aid (2 kids in college simultaneously for most years), but didn't take vacations and trimmed our lifestyle in years we didnt.)
But, if the goal is a kid who can immediately live on his salary (think way more than COA), earning more than I ever dreamed was possible in a first job after a degree, in a city of his choosing, using his intellect and critical thought process (taught at college), while adding job skills, an Ivy is the way to go. Financially, an Ivy will provide a kid with a successful launch. Once your son is launched, you can rebuild the family wealth - son won't be using it anymore.
Goosegg has got it right! Patriot League would also afford the same opportunities mentioned.
Goosegg posted:Goblue33 posted:What are the best Ivy's in terms of baseball programs? Do they offer full or partial academic scholarships? What is the general range of GPA and test scores? If my son has a 3.9 (AP) and a 30-33 ACT / comparable SAT and is D1 prospect who could play for example at an average Big 10 or ACC school (in terms of baseball), should we consider Ivy? Position player (catcher) or possibly RHP. Top 1000 measurable including speed, position velocity and exit velo. Hes just not a LHP or a RHP throwing 92mph yet.
No question, or answer, addressed life after baseball. Forget which Ivy program is the best (turns out that league championships rotate pretty regularly); ALL Ivy schools allow your son to find a high paying, interesting, first real job - without sacrificing any opportunities to play proball. ALL Ivy schools have networking opportunities which last a lifetime. ALL Ivy schools have access to the top summer leagues (and internships if summer baseball isn't desired).
If a kid has a chance to attend and play baseball at at Ivy, IMO, only Stanford stands higher on the D1 chart. Stanford provides the same opportunities, but in a much more competitive program.
Recognize that the demands of college ball probably means that some form of academic sacrifice will be made - either in major selected or grades earned (most likely both); the same is true in an Ivy program. So, there will be fewer engineers, math majors, physics majors when compared to the general student population; however, that economics degree from any Ivy school opens all doors (Econ degrees were the default degree for baseball players at S's school).
I communicate regularly with coaches. Ivy coaches are making lists early (just like all other coaches). First and foremost, they want baseball players. Ironically, it's easy to identify the studs early; but quite impossible to KNOW who will bring in Ivy test scores - so the lists are in flux until then. (And this allows other players to develop and emerge as potential recruits.) (As others have said, the earlier testing the better; this cuts against what most HS guidance counselors recommend and, therefore, a parent needs to be proactive in preparing their son for the tests in both course selection and test prep. S had finished his testing by September junior year which gave the coaches what each needed.)
Unofficial visits are a great avenue to make a connection with the coaches - but only if you can show the coach he's not wasting your and his time. This means having a decent transcript - even as a 10th grader. For example, a kid with 3 semesters of transcripts can show (a) grades and (b) cirriculum difficulty. While past results are no guarantee of the future, past BAD results knock a player out. So, drop by a school (have S email coach to see if he's there during the visit).
Academic preparation for an Ivy begins early (no need to get into that yet) and by end of ninth grade an honest assessment will tell a family if son has a shot to clear the academic bar.
On the financial front, each family is unique. Ivy FA is probably the best in the country; but for those families earning a bit too much, you will be squeezed like a stone until nothing is left; we got aid (2 kids in college simultaneously for most years), but didn't take vacations and trimmed our lifestyle in years we didnt.)
But, if the goal is a kid who can immediately live on his salary (think way more than COA), earning more than I ever dreamed was possible in a first job after a degree, in a city of his choosing, using his intellect and critical thought process (taught at college), while adding job skills, an Ivy is the way to go. Financially, an Ivy will provide a kid with a successful launch. Once your son is launched, you can rebuild the family wealth - son won't be using it anymore.
Goosegg, this is a great post. one question: when you say "unofficial visit" do you mean just showing up on campus? Or a visit prior to senior year where the coaches have invited you to visit, watch a practice, etc.? Did your son do the latter?
2019Dad posted:GoBlue, if a kid is not one of the coach's recruits -- and doesn't have another hook -- then he probably needs a 35-ish score on the ACT, and even then no guarantees. Again, using Princeton as an example, the 25% - 75% range for ACT scores this past year was 31 - 35. But the overwhelming majority of those at the lower end, will have had some hook (e.g., recruited athlete) that enabled them to clear admissions. If you just apply as a regular student without some sort of hook, you need to be on the higher end of the range.
The 99th percentile scores for the ACT start at a score of 33. That's what I meant when I said "For 99% of kids -- including mine -- if you're not one of the coach's 7 recruits in any given year, you can't get into the school."
Question on Ivy walk-ons: Assume you are able to clear admissions on your own (realize this is highly unlikely given the 7% acceptance at these places), is it fairly easy to walk on? Not sure how many 35-ish students there that can handle D1 Baseball. Does anyone have insights on the Fall walk-on process at the Ivies?
Definitely not easy. My son’s Ivy team has 1 walk on, and he is a LHP. Roster size is 29. Beileve they are very used to working with a smaller (than most D1s, below max of 35) roster.
I would also add that most walk on's are known quantities. At our sons school the headcoach committed to his top 5-7 and told others that they could be on the team if they were able to clear admissions. They did not have open tryouts.
Bb4me posted:I would also add that most walk on's are known quantities. At our sons school the headcoach committed to his top 5-7 and told others that they could be on the team if they were able to clear admissions. They did not have open tryouts.
Excellent point. Such is the case with the walk on LHP. Knew him in recruiting process but did not commit “one of their slots” to him but welcomed him if/when he got in on his own.
Also, son just told me they have an open tryout. None made it from this year’s.
Would agree with above posts. Have one in the Ivy right now. Kids typically don't just show up and make the team. Coaches almost always know who they are before they get to campus. And the admissions hurdle is ridiculously high to get in on your own without support.
Goosegg, this is a great post. one question: when you say "unofficial visit" do you mean just showing up on campus? Or a visit prior to senior year where the coaches have invited you to visit, watch a practice, etc.? Did your son do the latter?
Usually unofficial visits are scheduled (know you are coming), but it's on your "dime." Sons visits to Ivies were all "scheduled" in order to meet coaches, see facilities, etc. We visited a Patriot school unannounced (Close to an Ivy Camp son went to); able to take the school tour and meet assistant coaches and see facilities. HC was out of town. This school was also recruiting son, so it was worthwhile for both. Son's "unofficial visits" to school he would commit to involved talking with coaches, seeing facilities, discussing coaching philosophies, and watching a practice. Most visits also included the "standard school tour"- away from the athletic piece.
Great Post Goosegg!!
Great post by Goosegg but I would add a few things:
Some Ivies will have a one day or very short open tryout. Others will give walk ons or those not the beneficiary of a likely letter and slot all fall to show themselves. This differs by coaches and by schools, and of course by positional needs. Since there is no scholarship money, there isn't the same issue as elsewhere in D1 of having the coach have skin in the game except perhaps some personal issues with favoring the guys they actually recruited.
This past year several Ivies were looking for LHP after using their slots on other guys. One school probably asked 20 guys to apply, hoping 1 or 2 would get in on their own. 1 did and he is rostered.
Also, not to stir the pot on what schools afford the best post college job prospects without sacrificing the possibility to play pro ball, networking and an alumni network that will last a lifetime as I agree the Ivies can do that, but not all ivies are equal in this regard. First, some have 5% or less admission rates (like Stanford and MIT) but others are up near 12-15% (even higher/easier admission rates than some elite high academic D3s in the NESCAC, Pomona/Claremont etc). In addition, not to malign any of these prestigious institutions, but some are much better undergraduate experiences than others, and some "do" certain areas as well if not the best as any other institution in the world (ie hotel mgmt at Cornell, finance at Wharton/Penn, econ at Harvard (among others), pre med program at Brown, etc.) and in other areas to be honest they are not all that special, but yes your degree is still from that Ivy.
The difference for the baseball playing high academic kid is the pro ball angle. As we have discussed on other threads, D3 occasionally provides this opportunity, but not to the extent of D1. Otherwise I would add the academic elite of the NESCAC schools, MIT, Hopkins, Pomona and Claremont which have just as selective admissions and the same job prospects and networking and alumni support and $$ as well as similar financial aid policies, but of course a difference in baseball. But to the D1 Ivy + Stanford list, I have to think Duke is in the same category and other schools like Vandy, UVA, Northwestern, Notre Dame, others might argue similarly. I'm not being comprehensive -- and NO ONE CAN -- but let's not get caught up in the Ivy mystique that they are the only schools which afford a graduate the golden ticket which last a lifetime. I have one of those golden tickets so I know, but I also know that there is more out there than just these 8 schools bound together by an athletic league.
