Lesson to be learned

Plus, your son has to do the talking through his performance and hard work.  Over time, these things become apparent.  Parents just get in the way.

I've seen "THAT dad" so many times its made me wonder if I was once him?  I hope not. 

Looking at HS->college players isn't that hard for me anymore.  I'd say it may have once been, but its pretty obvious now.  There are 2 kids at my daughters HS - one headed to Vanderbilt next year and the other headed to South Carolina in 2 years.  I didn't know the second one at all - but went to a game just to see how good these kids were.  They play on a pretty darned good HS team in the Raleigh area so they are surrounded by good HS players.

It was SOOOOOO obvious before the 1st innings was over - both on the field and at bat.  I could pick out the 2nd player (whom I did not know) easily.  Their movements are so different than everyone else's - its kind of like looking at LL tryouts where the top couple of kids stand out head and shoulders above everyone else.

But still...I am certain that other parents on that team see their own sons at close to the same level as the two players that are moving on to high level D1.  Nothing bad about those parents - none of them were behaving like 'THAT dad' but I've been around parents enough...and been one long enough myself...to know its just too darn hard to fairly evaluate your own kid.

“ Before you go spouting off how great your son is to a random stranger”

What gets me is people will brag on their kid about things that are public knowledge, ie.. my son was all conference this, or all that,  he hit .480 in college, etc….

There aren’t too many things that can’t be searched and verified anymore. If someone is telling me about their son who is all world, I am looking it up, especially a college player.

I enjoy hearing about players successes, I am an avid listener at times but keep it believable if you’re going to embellish!

Almost had one of these guys on my son's team this summer...

His son is a SS.  Ever since kid travel ball days, daddy has been his coach.  Kid was always a decent, but never outstanding player.

Going into HS, the kid got accepted into a local private that has a pretty good national reputation.  Multiple high draft picks over the last decade.  Dad beat his chest about how his son was going to be big time...

Fast forward a couple of years and his son hadn't seen the field.  Transferred back to the local public -again dad was confident he would take over the SS position.  Wrong again. Played behind a senior who ended up being a late round draft pick.

This summer he joined my son's team - same story, dad says going to be the starting SS...

Found himself somewhere around 4th on the depth chart behind 2 foreign players who will be signing pro contracts next month and a rising junior who is a cannon armed, switch hitter.

Moved on to a local low tier travel team where I think he may actually be playing SS finally. 

Try running into "that dad" in a non baseball/athletic environment, where the dad has no idea you know your stuff, and starts bragging about his 15-year-old who "throws 90" and has already "signed a LOI with ASU." Kid wasn't even playing high school ball.

I just don't get why people lie about this stuff, especially now, when a simple google search will pull someone's card. I had a conversation with a guy several weeks back, he was popping off about playing at two different colleges, and then playing several years in the minors before hanging them up because of "politics." When I told him where I played, he told me who his cousin was (a stud collegiate player who had a pretty successful minor league career), and I told him I played against him several times. He got this uneasy face. He then made the mistake of telling me of what small town he was from, and I of course played with someone from that town and of course, I knew his high school coach.

I fully believed him going home. Out of curiosity, went to check out his stats. Never been drafted, never played an inning of minor league baseball, never played at the D1 he said he had, only at the JC. He only gave me his first name, but the cousin's name drop was a dead giveaway for the last name. I run into this guy about once a week now. I pretend like I have no idea, no point in calling dude out and embarrassing him, but it's funny.

Or the dad who says his son as signed with XXX University - when his son is a junior in HS.  No way has he signed anywhere.  Not physically possible.  But they say it anyway.

Coach, let us know how this kid does today.  You have my curiosity piqued.

It is a struggle to be objective with your own kid.  I try.  The best thing I have done (for myself) in this regard is give myself a job to do while he is pitching....and I gave myself one rule.  The job is to track balls and strikes.  Just on a basic ap on my phone.  But, he has struggled with control at times.  So, there it is, no rounding up, no guessing it is either called a ball or strike or fouled off or put in play.  60% strikes is 60%....you can't look at a number that says 52% and think, "well, it should say 65%."  

The rule I gave myself is to shut the heck up.  I never say anything to the blue or even really cheer or complain.  I started doing this quite awhile ago.  If he throws a nice pitch for a K the most I may do is clap once, but, usually I don't do anything.  If a guy smashes one in the gap I don't do or say anything.  If a guy makes an error I don't say or do anything.  It amazes me at the 19U level how many parents are still acting like it is year 2 of little league.  A kid hits a single and they act like its a walk off bomb in a World Series game.  A kid doesn't get a ball 4 call and they cat call the blue.  

At a tournament this past weekend I hear parents on several teams complain about the blue and him favoring one team or another....believe me, the umps don't care who wins.  They want the game to keep moving and to do their job and move on to the next game.  

One parent even tried to file a complaint again my sons coach for "bullying" one of his player because he suggested he get his Fing head out of his a** after missing signs twice.  It is just crazy out there.  

Once my son got to varsity; I had a dad say "enjoy the moment and let it be his".  My wife and I would put our headsets in and just enjoy the game.  Sometimes it wasn't pretty, sometimes it was great.  He went 10-1 his senior season with only loss in playoffs against #1 team in state.  Greatest year of baseball; not because he has having success; but b/c we just enjoyed the process.

We go watch him play in college and he pitches and plays the field.  Again, my wife and I are there to watch him and to watch baseball.  I am not there to yell, scream, jump around or talk; I want to watch my son because I don't know how much more he will play.

I don't think there is anything wrong with "getting into" a game.  Nothing wrong with cheering for your son or yelling "come on blue" on what you perceive to be a bad call.  In my opinion, that is part of what makes a baseball game fun.  I do it for other pitchers as well as my son.  

This thread in particular is talking about THAT dad that boosts up his son in front of everyone and that's all he talks about - how good his son is - ad nauseum.  I know there is another thread out there about out of control parents that insert themselves into games.  There is a big difference between overboard and being "into" the game and rooting for your team (and your son).  Baseball is a competition and part of the thrill of watching it is to want your team to win.  Part of the thrill is cheering your team (and your son who is part of the team) and yelling at the umps occasionally.  

I don't think people need to go from one extreme (overboard yelling and screaming and inserting the fans into the game) to the other (sitting quietly and stoically not saying anything).  There is a balance and I think that middle ground makes the game that much more fun.

This is just my opinion.  Be a fan - root for your team - including your son.

bballman,

I dont disagree really.  

For me, this is the route I had to take so that I didn't become "that" dad....talking about how the blue screwed him or he shouldn't have given up any runs if his team could play D.  The game became much more enjoyable to me doing it this way.  

If people want to scream and yell thats fine....to me it is silly, but, to each their own.  

I'm not really talking about "screaming and yelling".  That term has some pretty negative connotations.  I'm talking about rooting for your team.  Imagine a MLB stadium where everyone just sat there not saying anything or cheering a big out or home run.  It would be pretty boring...  

To each his own though.

I hear this all the time...

Like I said, to each their own. 

To me it is grating at that level (high school age or older).  If someone is doing more than yelling out a little encouragement or clapping for a hit (or whatever) almost without fail they are complaining about the blue screwing them over or whatever.  Again, I am sure many have had other experiences.  

The onus of me changing came from my son.  I would yell out encouragement (and occasionally instruction) during games and it drove him nuts.  He finally said, about sophmore year of HS, "Just be quiet.  If I made a bad pitch I know it, if I made a good play I know it.  Its irritating." 

So, I stopped.  For me, just me, it made the game much more enjoyable.  

bballman - could not agree more!  Big difference between cheering on the home team and yelling/screaming at each play/call that goes against either the team of your kid.  A little polite feedback to the umpire is not a bad thing.  Calling out the umpire generally gets you worse calls going forward.  I think every now and then an ump knows a pitch was borderline - whether you get the call the next time may depend upon whether you are polite or simply a jerk.

I would ask that the cheering be appropriate for the age group.  In t-ball, you are allowed to cheer contact.  In 10u you can cheer the hard hit ground ball that gets bobbled.  Once in high school, please don't cheer when the opposing team flubs the ordinary ground ball or perhaps overthrows first after making a nice grab.  Let the play die down down and then encourage the baserunner. 

I'm enjoying high school ball and much prefer winning to losing - although a tough loss to a good team can be more satisfying than beating a clearly overmatched team.  If I had to sit there perfectly silent and actually be ambivalent to the outcome then I probably wouldn't bother showing up.  In conclusion - cheer appropriately!

Are you using the GameChanger app or is there something that is simpler to track just balls and strikes? This would be a good activity for me, but I want something pretty simple. I try to keep quiet, mainly so I won't get so irritated with the fans on our team. I think there is a basic fan decorum that should be adhered to at baseball games. Applause and words of encouragement are great. Full on yelling at the umpires and players, screaming for someone to drop the ball or just screaming at the top of your lungs for a basic base hit are not appropriate in my book. But, as others have said, to each their own. I can only control my response to that behavior.  

I never gave instruction, god knows he did not need it from me. I would comment on a good pitch but would not call him out by name. I asked my son if any of it bothered him. He said "Frankly Dad, I don't hear you." 

I root for our side but also recognize if an opposing player makes a good play/pitch. Like BBallman says, it is just part of the game for me. 

LOL i had to dig up this account i hadnt logged into in a year to reply to this thread...

Any chance the kid and father in the OP were local (to USC)? Because man do they sound like a father and son i am pretty acquainted with. The whole family is nuts.Its like they think all the other players are only there to provide filler for their son to showcase his talent. And woe be to the kid who makes an error while their son is pitching. Mom will literally shout at the offending player, and then storm out, usually glaring at the kid who made the error's parents the whole time. 

The crazy part is that for as insanely intense as they are about getting Timmy off to college ball (where if he has any chance of playing in college it is IMO most likely as a pitcher) they seem painfully out of tune with what college coaches and recruiters are looking for in pitchers: Arm action, velocity, command, composure. They dont care of some JV first baseman didnt pick the ball on a low throw from SS. Probably they dont care about JV games at all. But its almost like you can see them mentally watching their son's ERA and college scolly opportunities being 100% linked. Heck kids making errors behind Timmy can actually be a good thing as it allows him to show off his composure and how he deals with adversity.

Some other highlights, of the top of my head:

Kid filled in for a 15 u team a couple of times when he was 13u. Afterwards, it got slipped into every conversation. "Yeah it IS hot today. But not as hot as it was this past weekend when Timmy was playing 15u ball." Turns out the 15u team was something like 3-27 that summer.

Dad told me once "Timmy is only playing high school ball to play with his friends. If it was up to me, we'd skip HS ball altogether and just do showcases" This was before his son's 8th grade season.

Mom and dad got pissed at the AS manager selection process when Timmy was a 12 year old, and took their kid and went home. A couple of days later they relented, and let Timmy back on the team, saying, "They decided to just let it be about the kids." Jackholes...its always supposed to be just about the kids.

When the AS team faltered at States, Dad told me that "Timmy could only do so much all by himself." Like give up the walk off hit to the team that put them out of the tournament.

Dad rails against LL being daddy ball constantly. Guess where his kid is playing this summer. The HS summer team that most of the rising soph's are playing on? On some big expensive showcase team? Nope on a travel team coached by.....

...wait for it.....

Dad.

You cant make this stuff up.

There is usually one of these Dads on every team.  They used to bother me, but it's good sport to listen to them now.

We had "that dad" at our high school. The kid was the LL stud who didn't grow. However, he did develop to throw 85. On the kid's PG profile he was listed as 5'11". The kid was 5'7". The problem with his pitching was 85 down the pipe in large classification high school ball is known as BP.

All we ever heard was how great the kid was. Of course he was screwed by the high school coach soph year. The coach didn't appreciate his 7+ ERA. The kid transferred to the Catholic League. The dad told everyone now the world was going to see how good his kid was. Well, the kid got screwed. He hardly pitched. The kid returned to the high school senior year after a meeting with the new head coach. He got his ERA down to 6+ before he was removed from the rotation.

While this kid was stinking up the joint in high school all we heard about was the incredible feedback the kid was getting from showcases. All the major programs in the country were watching him and corresponding (in your dreams, dad). 

Since the the kid threw 85 over the following three years he walked on at two JuCos and a D2. But he rarely pitched. The coaches were screwing him! Between high school and college the kid went to six schools in six years where every coach screwed him out of his shot at the big leagues.

Ugh, that part doesn't get better either?  I was told last week by a parent who has never stayed with the same team more than 1 year, that their 12u kid was being underutilized and he was going to play for Team X (which is a reputable team) because, and I quote, "They have been scouting him since he was six". 

I know you all tell me not to hit the fast forward button, to enjoy this while I can, but come on!  Should I take stock in an ear-plug company?  How do you not roll your eyes at that?

Earplugs?  How can you miss a chance for a well timed chuckle when someone says something like that.  As Sultan points out, soon it stops bothering you and you being to appreciate the humorous side of things.  Looking back it was sort of like musical chairs starting with 500 8 year old kids.  Some kids just walk away and everyone gets a chair the first few years.  Move forward a couple of years and there are about 200 kids - still plenty of chairs with some kids getting their chair a little more quickly.  Start getting into high school and the chairs start getting few in number.  Some kids may get bumped off when they shouldn't be and others may get their chairs for awhile, but for the most part the most talented kids remain in the game and the wanna-be's are left without a chair.  You may find the parents obnoxious, but at times you have to pity the kid who gets strung (pushed) along only to discover late in the game that his parents perpetuated the scam.

And this is the part that is really sad to me. We have several kids who have been deluded by their parents. They don't have great fundamentals. But, their parents have built them up so much that they think they are the best of the best.

Two kids in particular pop into my head. They were LL All Stars every year and they really hang their hats on that. What they don't understand is that the really good kids in our area don't play LL. They really had no clue that there were more competitive leagues and travel teams out there. So, they show up to high school and they are way behind. Have a hard time catching and throwing, can't read the ball off the bat, can't hit even BP throwing, etc. Parents are still telling them they'll be fine because they are All Stars, like that means anything in the grand scheme of things. Both kids make the Frosh team, but get very little playing time. Instead of the parents seeing where their kid's are limited and helping them to improve, it's all the coach's fault. Their kid doesn't want to play anymore because the coach has taken all the joy out of the game. Now that they've given up on baseball, my hubby recently overheard one of these dads telling someone else that his kid is going to be the best football player to ever come out of our high school. No matter that he plays Center and is maybe 5'10 and 160 lbs and isn't the fastest or strongest kid in the program. Dad has now shifted his delusion to an entirely different sport.

Well I'm home finally and the camp is over.  It was a pretty good one although looking back at it I think they could have done more instruction but I'm big on teaching so maybe it's just me.

Anyway, after writing the initial post while I was laying in the hotel bed I read back over what I wrote and thought maybe I was being too harsh on this kid.  The kid hasn't done anything to me personally and his success / failure doesn't mean a hill of beans to me.  So I woke up today determined to look at this kid with fresh eyes not affected by how dumb his dad is.  

Boy am I glad that I did decide to make that change in my attitude.  I could finally look at this kid for him instead of through his dad.  I can honestly say this kid sucks royally and after paying more attention to him and how he interacted with the other guys he may be THAT kid.

So as I told you he hasn't really stood out doing anything the first couple of days.  Today may have went as bad as it possibly could for a player.

1.  In the pro style try out starting the day - he ran an 8.1 (timed with my cell phone but I feel pretty confident it was at least close to accurate).  He looks like a kid who could fly but his feet move like crazy to really go nowhere.  Take out the really younger kids he was top 5 in slowest there although nobody really stood out.

2.  Throws from OF - first throw to 3B ended up 3 hopping to the bag about 8 feet up the line.  Second throw to home never got there because he took out the catchers standing in 1B foul territory.  Let's just say it was a good thing there were no low flying planes going over the field when he threw.  They would have came down.

3.  Bullpen to get ready for game - we were sitting near the bullpen this morning (best shade spot in the OF where we didn't have to sit near anyone) and he takes about 5 warm up throws (2 hit the back wall) before he tells the catcher to get down.  He throws about 3 pitches before the catcher tells him to let him know what's coming.  Then the catcher had to teach him what the glove signals were.  He throws a total of maybe 12 pitches which several hit the back wall.  I looked at my BFF and said he and the catcher may fight before they leave the bullpen.

4.  Hitting in the game - I don't remember anything that he did productive.  I do know that he never touched first base.

5.  First inning pitching - first batter he strikes out (each batter started with 1 - 1 count).  Now that sounds impressive but it's really not.  It was one of those kids who barely made the older group age range and skill wise would not have stood out on the younger kids group.  He walked the next guy and got two pop ups to end the inning but those two guys just missed the pitches.  He was throwing SOOOO slow that I know several interstates where he would not get a speeding ticket.

6.  Second inning - fan meet $%(#, $&#@ meet fan.  First batter my BFF son makes a diving catch for an out on a pop up behind first base.  He then proceeds to walk the next 5 guys to walk in 2 runs.  The coaches finally told the teams to switch so he would get off the mound.

7.  His reaction - I'm not sure if it would be possible to walk any slower than he did off the mound.  Head down, shoulders hanging low.  Now here's the crazy part - these kids don't know each other but they actually gelled quite a bit on the second day.  This one kid playing 3B got the guys together on the field at the start of the game second day and made everyone glove tap, he was always there telling everyone great job and anything else you want from a player.  It spread like wildfire to both teams and it was fun to watch this develop.  But when superstar came off the field and sat in the dugout by himself nobody came over and said anything to him.  For a group of guys to gel and be so supportive of each other to ignore this kid tells me something about how he was interacting with the other guys.  I asked my BFF son how he was like and he said he didn't know because nobody wanted to hang with him.

I saw the dad a few other times during camp but he didn't say anything and most I got was a head nod.  He didn't say much to anybody else the whole camp.  

Threeunassisted I have no idea if this is the same guy but when I was talking (or should I say listening) to the dad the first day he said they have been to the field several times to watch USC so they can't be too far away.  He does play football too.  The guy you're talking about sounds like a nice piece of work.  

If there are any young kids reading this I'm sure you've heard the old saying "you never know who's watching" that's why you do things correctly and hustle.  I'm a nobody who knows a little bit of baseball.  If I'm noticing all this then how much do you think the people who get paid to notice everything will see.  Just do the right things all the time and you don't have to worry about opening yourself up to be criticized like this.  I do feel bad for bashing on this kid but, once again, his dad started all this.

It is a very basic ap Pitch Lite.

Balls, strikes and total pitches and thats it.  It may do more but I haven't messed with it. 

I also track first pitch strikes but I just note that down.  

Pretty similar to me actually.  I don't want it to seem like I am sitting there like Weekend At Bernies.  I will clap a little or certainly acknowledge a good play by either team.  

The giving instruction part is embarrassing in hindsight.  That is why I brought it up.  My son had the opposite reaction he only heard me.  

So if I am that Dad, I am at the next event bragging up how my kid threw two no hit innings at his last big showcase!!

Great description Coach, I needed a laugh with my morning coffee.

Honestly, I have noticed the better the kid is, the less the parents talk.  A couple of kids my son went to HS with wound up drafted out of college.  One is playing in MiLB, the other was drafted twice, but declined and will be playing his senior year at Kentucky.  The first guy was drafted out of Clemson.  In HS, his parents NEVER talked about him.  Even when prompted.  I would ask them questions in talking to them and they were very reluctant to talk about any accolades or stats or anything else.  The other I still talk to his dad about baseball and we follow his son's games together, but never a bragging word or saying much to bolster his kid up at all.

Like I said, the better the player, the less the parents tend to talk.

If you have to talk somebody up, that means you are insecure about something.  Let deeds do all the talking.  Talking only degrades from that. 

I have the same feelings.  The better the player the less they are talked about by their parents.  Can't say there are not exceptions but I have found that the good players and their families say very little and let the on field play speak for itself.

I'm all for the frank analysis, especially when it comes from someone who knows the game and it's requirements but this kid is getting murdered on here because his dad is an 1D10T. Not all kids are great players, not all parents have that mechanism to hold it all back. I love my kid and share when asked to share in relevent convo's. He is not the best and may never be, i ask him to outwork everyone and never take anything for granted.....reminding him that someone, somewhere is out to get his spot, all the time.....but have i talked about my kid before, yes. I say you go up to that parent and tell him how you feel and maybe even go so far as to tell what an a$$hole he sounds like about his kid. The kid didnt do anything apparently but stink it up on the field.

Yes, I will still talk about my son some, but not near as much as I used to.  When he was younger - pre HS - I did.  At some point, I think during early HS, I realized that I sounded like THAT parent.  From that point, I totally dialed it down.  

Every parent is proud of their kid.  Not everyone wants to hear about it ALL the time.  Sometimes I will start talking and soon realize what I am doing and have to stop.  Other times, I prefer not to say anything.  Other times my son does well and it's fun to talk about, and there are times things don't go so well and it's not fun to talk about.  Although I share with those close to me the bad times as well as the good, but try to keep it to a minimum.  

Once again, I think there is a balance.  It's OK to be proud of your son and share that with people.  If you get into embellishment or exaggerate his skills, it becomes a problem.  If you dominate the conversation with the accolades of your son, it can become a problem.  I may talk for a few minutes if someone asks, but soon turn the conversation to how their kid is doing.  

I'm not saying parents of good players don't talk at all about their kids.  They should be proud.  I know I am.  However, the parents of the good players don't turn into THAT parent - most of the time.  

I made this exact point in another thread. We have a kid that is special on our team. You can see it right away. The parents never talk about him or his accolades. This Spring, he earned 1st team all league and 2nd team all state honors as a Sophomore. The parents never mentioned it. If someone congratulated their son, they simply said thank you. The kid is the same way. Doesn't talk about how great he is or where he is going to play after high school. Both the parents and the kids are great supporters of the program and the other kids. I have learned a lot from how they present themselves.

If your kid is good, many people are going to ask you about their son, because they are excited for him.  In some way, they may take pride in your son, whether they are your neighbors, coworkers, from the same town, boosters or alumni of son's high school, etc.  As such, I don't have a problem with sharing the experience with them.  If they ask, I am going to talk. 

While some may prefer not to talk, I am not that way.  I am an outgoing person, and it is not in my nature to not answer or short answer when asked. 

After 3  years of college ball, I have learned, though, once they (parents included) get to the college level (if they get to the college level), "that dad" will find himself on exile island very quickly. We have a great time at the tail-gates, but, at least where we are, there's no ranting about son did this or that...as a matter of fact, the parents seem quite humble. Maybe we're the exception...could be different elsewhere.