Keuchel was so good in his command and location while changing speeds in a huge game and situation he noted caused a major adrenaline rush.
Rather than Kershaw, as good as he is, ( I think he is brilliant) I might think that when we put the game situation into the factoid, some Giant named Bumgarner could be the point of reference.
Keuchel was so good in his command and location while changing speeds in a huge game and situation he noted caused a major adrenaline rush.
Rather than Kershaw, as good as he is, ( I think he is brilliant) I might think that when we put the game situation into the factoid, some Giant named Bumgarner could be the point of reference.
Yes, Bumgarner, circa 2014 playoffs.
In the category of pitchers not like Bumgarner (or Kershaw or Archer or Keuchel, etc., etc.) I figured out a clunky, device-to-device way to get the video of 2019Son pitching a few weeks ago: www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/SBLWkg8X
A combination of a lot of room behind home plate, a really lousy cameraman (that would be me) and a video of the original video done by a complete novice (me, again), makes for lousy quality. But you do get to see both windup and stretch. Hopefully it's enough. Any and all feedback welcome.
P.S. -- As an aside, he had the baserunner picked on that first pickoff attempt, but the batter (#37) asked for -- and got -- time right beforehand! If you're wondering, #37 ended up flying out.
P.P.S. -- if it's helpful, the video can be viewed in 1/4 or 1/8 speed by hitting those buttons on the right-hand-side.
Sorry, all that kept going through my mind was the old days in middle school when the teacher would turn on the projector and all the students would start yelling "focus" 
From what I can see, he looks pretty good. I don't see any glaring/unhealthy reason for the falling off. Hard to give real specifics with the quality of the video, but looks ok to me. I'm not a big fan of having the legs bent that much in the set position, but that may be a matter of preference. Don't see a lot of guys doing that. Although one of my son's former teammates who pitches for Kentucky and has been drafted twice does that. His front side looks pretty good. But like I said, hard to give real specific feedback with the video that blurry and from that far back.
Since this video is on Hudl, I'm assuming it is a recruiting video. I would suggest doing some editing and get rid of a bunch of the dead time. I'm guessing it is a lot more clear on the actual video than your video of the video...
From what I can see, he looks pretty good. I don't see any glaring/unhealthy reason for the falling off. Hard to give real specifics with the quality of the video, but looks ok to me. I'm not a big fan of having the legs bent that much in the set position, but that may be a matter of preference. Don't see a lot of guys doing that. Although one of my son's former teammates who pitches for Kentucky and has been drafted twice does that. His front side looks pretty good. But like I said, hard to give real specific feedback with the video that blurry and from that far back.
Since this video is on Hudl, I'm assuming it is a recruiting video. I would suggest doing some editing and get rid of a bunch of the dead time. I'm guessing it is a lot more clear on the actual video than your video of the video...
Thanks, bballman! Certainly there is room for improvement. It's hard to see from the angle it was filmed, and the blurriness of it, but his takeaway would be better if it were more towards second base. And that would help a bit with respect to the falling off.
P.S. -- It's not a recruiting video -- we've never done any of those. I just used an app called ubersense on my phone to record it because it can be played back in slow-mo, you can draw on it, that sort of thing. I guess Hudl just recently acquired ubersense and renamed it Hudl Technique. But I take your point -- if this were a recruiting video, it would be a lousy one, and we'd have to clean it up quite a bit.
Sidenote; Nice footwork on pick attempts. But he needs to work on not dropping his hands and it will make his move great! His hands are already elevated in the set position, so just separating and throwing will be quick.
Hard to teach good footwork and he already has it.
Going back and looking at it again, I'm wondering if he's not throwing a little across his body even in this clip. After you mentioned it in your last post, I went back and looked for it. Like I said, it's a little hard to tell from this angle, but he may be stepping a little much towards 3B. That could cause some of the fall off. He definitely does it less some pitches than others, and this is a small sample. Try taking some video from directly behind the plate and check it. I used to have my son draw a line in the dirt from his pivot foot directly at home plate, then look down to see where his stride foot landed after the pitch. I could be wrong, but it looks slightly like it to me.
Going back and looking at it again, I'm wondering if he's not throwing a little across his body even in this clip. After you mentioned it in your last post, I went back and looked for it. Like I said, it's a little hard to tell from this angle, but he may be stepping a little much towards 3B. That could cause some of the fall off. He definitely does it less some pitches than others, and this is a small sample. Try taking some video from directly behind the plate and check it. I used to have my son draw a line in the dirt from his pivot foot directly at home plate, then look down to see where his stride foot landed after the pitch. I could be wrong, but it looks slightly like it to me.
Yes, fair point. Next time I get video, I'll try to get it from directly behind the plate and check it. Thanks again for the input.
....hitting the trash can and running laps?.... Seriously?
The one thing I notices, and it is difficult to tell, but he seems very spinny/rotational and no forward momentum. Does his back foot leave the rubber at all? You see a lot of pitchers where they have gained ground to the plate and their back foot is a good 6-12 inches in front of the mound. Maybe that is what the HC is trying to do?
....hitting the trash can and running laps?.... Seriously?
Yup. 4 laps around the field each time he hit it (which I think was twice). Makes for a longer-than-normal bullpen, that's for sure!
The one thing I notices, and it is difficult to tell, but he seems very spinny/rotational and no forward momentum. Does his back foot leave the rubber at all? You see a lot of pitchers where they have gained ground to the plate and their back foot is a good 6-12 inches in front of the mound. Maybe that is what the HC is trying to do?
Not sure about the back foot. I think so, but I'll try to take some video from the side to be sure.
There is no doubt that he has a tendency to fall off. I can't tell you how many times I've told him over the years that home plate is in front of the catcher, not over near the first base dugout. Bringing his momentum more towards home and staying closed are things he needs to work on. But I think there is zero chance -- or darn close to zero -- that he ever becomes one of those pitchers who has zero fall off altogether -- I know that it works for some pitchers, though, so I'm not knocking it.
In a somewhat related way, it's not literally true that 2019Son never had any pitching lessons before this summer. Although it's practically true. When he was about 11 years old I signed him up for some pitching lessons with a former MLB pitcher. He was a big guy, 6'3" or 6'4", probably 230 lbs. The MLB pitcher tried to get 2019Son to find a "balance point," "stand tall," etc. I'm sure that approach works for some pitchers, and it apparently worked for this MLB pitcher. But 2019Son looked so uncomfortable it was hard to believe, and he immediately threw slower and with worse control, so I figured "why am I paying for this?" and stopped sending him after a couple lessons. And that's when I came up with my theory that not all pitchers are comfortable with the same mechanics. Which may be a cockamamie theory, but it did save me a lot of money on pitching lessons over the years.
Personally, I think that the MLB guy gave some great advice. And clearly your son is not staying tall (staying tall helps in planing the ball) nor finding a balance point. While some may debate the first point (in favor of drop and drive, I suppose), there can be no questioning that balance is a key part of the delivery.
What did you really expect from a couple of lessons - especially with the huge change in mechanics he was trying to convey? Who cares that his control appeared worse - did he have a game the next day? This is a process; there are NO SHORTCUTS or magic fairy dust. Your S clearly has the athletic ability to alter his mechanics.
You seem to prefer advice from an anonymous group of people instead of a guy who actually did it. What a kid needs is a single voice in his head - that of a qualified PC; not a chorus of voices whose pedigree is unknown.
Moreover, using your implicit logic that the size of the guy teaching matters, I can just say that my S was 5' 6" when he began taking lessons from a guy bigger then the one you referenced - didn't matter a bit. What matters is the ability to teach in a manner the kid accepts (assuming the PC knows the basics). Clearly here, neither he nor you accepted the knowledge of someone who actually was teaching very standard stuff - and who had delivered the goods at the highest level.
Get a PC. Yes, it will cost money. Yes, many times as new mechanics are introduced the kid loses velo initially as he begins to "feel" the new delivery. Yes, it's an incremental process. No, there are no guarantees of results. IMO, you can save the money on travel ball and focus on learning how to pitch (if money is an impediment).
But I believe I can hazard a guess that the path you're now taking is one that is skewed to a less favorable outcome.
Personally, I think that the MLB guy gave some great advice. And clearly your son is not staying tall (staying tall helps in planing the ball) nor finding a balance point. While some may debate the first point (in favor of drop and drive, I suppose), there can be no questioning that balance is a key part of the delivery.
What did you really expect from a couple of lessons - especially with the huge change in mechanics he was trying to convey? Who cares that his control appeared worse - did he have a game the next day? This is a process; there are NO SHORTCUTS or magic fairy dust. Your S clearly has the athletic ability to alter his mechanics.
You seem to prefer advice from an anonymous group of people instead of a guy who actually did it. What a kid needs is a single voice in his head - that of a qualified PC; not a chorus of voices whose pedigree is unknown.
Moreover, using your implicit logic that the size of the guy teaching matters, I can just say that my S was 5' 6" when he began taking lessons from a guy bigger then the one you referenced - didn't matter a bit. What matters is the ability to teach in a manner the kid accepts (assuming the PC knows the basics). Clearly here, neither he nor you accepted the knowledge of someone who actually was teaching very standard stuff - and who had delivered the goods at the highest level.
Get a PC. Yes, it will cost money. Yes, many times as new mechanics are introduced the kid loses velo initially as he begins to "feel" the new delivery. Yes, it's an incremental process. No, there are no guarantees of results. IMO, you can save the money on travel ball and focus on learning how to pitch (if money is an impediment).
But I believe I can hazard a guess that the path you're now taking is one that is skewed to a less favorable outcome.
I'm seeing a pattern here. The pitching coach wants to change some things. Nope can't do that -- he doesn't know what he is doing. Now the HS coach has some things to change -- nope can't do that. What can you do.
Personally, I think that the MLB guy gave some great advice. And clearly your son is not staying tall (staying tall helps in planing the ball) nor finding a balance point. While some may debate the first point (in favor of drop and drive, I suppose), there can be no questioning that balance is a key part of the delivery.
What did you really expect from a couple of lessons - especially with the huge change in mechanics he was trying to convey? Who cares that his control appeared worse - did he have a game the next day? This is a process; there are NO SHORTCUTS or magic fairy dust. Your S clearly has the athletic ability to alter his mechanics.
You seem to prefer advice from an anonymous group of people instead of a guy who actually did it. What a kid needs is a single voice in his head - that of a qualified PC; not a chorus of voices whose pedigree is unknown.
Moreover, using your implicit logic that the size of the guy teaching matters, I can just say that my S was 5' 6" when he began taking lessons from a guy bigger then the one you referenced - didn't matter a bit. What matters is the ability to teach in a manner the kid accepts (assuming the PC knows the basics). Clearly here, neither he nor you accepted the knowledge of someone who actually was teaching very standard stuff - and who had delivered the goods at the highest level.
Get a PC. Yes, it will cost money. Yes, many times as new mechanics are introduced the kid loses velo initially as he begins to "feel" the new delivery. Yes, it's an incremental process. No, there are no guarantees of results. IMO, you can save the money on travel ball and focus on learning how to pitch (if money is an impediment).
But I believe I can hazard a guess that the path you're now taking is one that is skewed to a less favorable outcome.
I'm seeing a pattern here. The pitching coach wants to change some things. Nope can't do that -- he doesn't know what he is doing. Now the HS coach has some things to change -- nope can't do that. What can you do.
And that ML guy was a waste of money!
"One other data point. And it's just a single data point, so hard to draw conclusions. This video was from the Saturday before last. No walks, good strike percentage. Then during the week came the trash can drill, the stepping towards third to avoid the trash can, the throwing across his body, the hitting the trash can and running laps. Then this past Saturday his control went to hell in a handbasket (which, thankfully, I do not have video of). I'm NOT saying the pitching coach doesn't know what he is doing, and I'm NOT saying that he doesn't know way more than I do about pitching. But I dunno . . . it just seems to me that not every kid is going to look exactly the same on the mound."
Dad, our experience over a lot of years is that adjustments in baseball can be very hard. The more ingrained the action, the more difficult the adjustment and the longer time it will take. Equally important is the fact that things may indeed be pretty messy and challenging for the player and his parent during the process of making the changes and adjustments.
The hard fact at this point seems to be that coaches who know and coach baseball at levels your son has not experienced do not see him succeeding at the next levels, unless he makes adjustments, major ones. From that is the positive aspects which appear to be that these coaches want your son to succeed at levels they have seen and he has not! If we think it is challenging to watch the results now (when adjustments are being processed), it only gets more problematic at higher levels of baseball.
As an illustration, our son played MILB with two others who were 3rd and 5th round picks. Both came from Power 5 conferences and were, obviously, very successful.
Almost as soon as each arrived in short season A ball, they were advised their swings would not work and needed major overhaul. Both resisted and because the season was 2 1/2 months, the organization let it go. They both did fine. Next ST, same thing and the organization let it go.
By June of A ball ( about 60-70 games) each was hitting below the Mendoza line and not looking even that good with their AB's. Each finally said "uncle". It probably took close to 4 weeks to completely rebuild each swing, with work before and after games in 90 degree heat and 95% humidity. It was challenging and each BA went down before the adjustments started to work.
Ultimately, for one, the new swing succeeded and he got to AAA ball where he played for several seasons. He is now a successful assistant hitting coach at a very good d1 program.
The other player, unfortunately, struggled the following ST and got released before getting another assignment.
Hopefully, these thoughts might place in perspective what you may well be feeling and seeing. Our son's cannot make major adjustments to their game without some major upheaval in the results. They have to be patient and most of all they have to trust the coaches to make adjustments which are good ones and which will work as the player moves to more competitive baseball.
Fighting the adjustments, not trusting the coaches and most of all getting "support" from the fact the level of play is not pretty while the adjustments are underway is all "winning" a battle for our son's in a short sighted way, in my view. Grasping at the struggles your son is having and you are watching as "vindication" the adjustments are incorrect is, to my assessment, the wrong mindset for yourself and especially your son. Good Luck. I hope this is accepted in the way it is intended.
Personally, I think that the MLB guy gave some great advice. And clearly your son is not staying tall (staying tall helps in planing the ball) nor finding a balance point. While some may debate the first point (in favor of drop and drive, I suppose), there can be no questioning that balance is a key part of the delivery.
What did you really expect from a couple of lessons - especially with the huge change in mechanics he was trying to convey? Who cares that his control appeared worse - did he have a game the next day? This is a process; there are NO SHORTCUTS or magic fairy dust. Your S clearly has the athletic ability to alter his mechanics.
You seem to prefer advice from an anonymous group of people instead of a guy who actually did it. What a kid needs is a single voice in his head - that of a qualified PC; not a chorus of voices whose pedigree is unknown.
Moreover, using your implicit logic that the size of the guy teaching matters, I can just say that my S was 5' 6" when he began taking lessons from a guy bigger then the one you referenced - didn't matter a bit. What matters is the ability to teach in a manner the kid accepts (assuming the PC knows the basics). Clearly here, neither he nor you accepted the knowledge of someone who actually was teaching very standard stuff - and who had delivered the goods at the highest level.
Get a PC. Yes, it will cost money. Yes, many times as new mechanics are introduced the kid loses velo initially as he begins to "feel" the new delivery. Yes, it's an incremental process. No, there are no guarantees of results. IMO, you can save the money on travel ball and focus on learning how to pitch (if money is an impediment).
But I believe I can hazard a guess that the path you're now taking is one that is skewed to a less favorable outcome.
I'm seeing a pattern here. The pitching coach wants to change some things. Nope can't do that -- he doesn't know what he is doing. Now the HS coach has some things to change -- nope can't do that. What can you do.
Yeah, that's a fair criticism. I've been pretty cavalier when it comes to pitching. Live and learn I guess. There's still time for 2025Son!
And, hey, 2019Son has been with the same hitting coach for a couple years now. That has to count for something.
"One other data point. And it's just a single data point, so hard to draw conclusions. This video was from the Saturday before last. No walks, good strike percentage. Then during the week came the trash can drill, the stepping towards third to avoid the trash can, the throwing across his body, the hitting the trash can and running laps. Then this past Saturday his control went to hell in a handbasket (which, thankfully, I do not have video of). I'm NOT saying the pitching coach doesn't know what he is doing, and I'm NOT saying that he doesn't know way more than I do about pitching. But I dunno . . . it just seems to me that not every kid is going to look exactly the same on the mound."
Dad, our experience over a lot of years is that adjustments in baseball can be very hard. The more ingrained the action, the more difficult the adjustment and the longer time it will take. Equally important is the fact that things may indeed be pretty messy and challenging for the player and his parent during the process of making the changes and adjustments.
The hard fact at this point seems to be that coaches who know and coach baseball at levels your son has not experienced do not see him succeeding at the next levels, unless he makes adjustments, major ones. From that is the positive aspects which appear to be that these coaches want your son to succeed at levels they have seen and he has not! If we think it is challenging to watch the results now (when adjustments are being processed), it only gets more problematic at higher levels of baseball.
As an illustration, our son played MILB with two others who were 3rd and 5th round picks. Both came from Power 5 conferences and were, obviously, very successful.
Almost as soon as each arrived in short season A ball, they were advised their swings would not work and needed major overhaul. Both resisted and because the season was 2 1/2 months, the organization let it go. They both did fine. Next ST, same thing and the organization let it go.
By June of A ball ( about 60-70 games) each was hitting below the Mendoza line and not looking even that good with their AB's. Each finally said "uncle". It probably took close to 4 weeks to completely rebuild each swing, with work before and after games in 90 degree heat and 95% humidity. It was challenging and each BA went down before the adjustments started to work.
Ultimately, for one, the new swing succeeded and he got to AAA ball where he played for several seasons. He is now a successful assistant hitting coach at a very good d1 program.
The other player, unfortunately, struggled the following ST and got released before getting another assignment.
Hopefully, these thoughts might place in perspective what you may well be feeling and seeing. Our son's cannot make major adjustments to their game without some major upheaval in the results. They have to be patient and most of all they have to trust the coaches to make adjustments which are good ones and which will work as the player moves to more competitive baseball.
Fighting the adjustments, not trusting the coaches and most of all getting "support" from the fact the level of play is not pretty while the adjustments are underway is all "winning" a battle for our son's in a short sighted way, in my view. Grasping at the struggles your son is having and you are watching as "vindication" the adjustments are incorrect is, to my assessment, the wrong mindset for yourself and especially your son. Good Luck. I hope this is accepted in the way it is intended.
Yes, all valid criticisms. And good advice.
Sorry, but I don't agree with your thinking that somehow a guy who doesn't use video can't teach.
Video, like many other things used in teaching pitching, is a tool. Nothing more and nothing less. Just because someone (PC) has a video machine means nothing unless (a) he actually understands what he sees and (b) can convey it in a way which the KID (not the dad) understands.
Most of us have sons. Mine used to agree with anything I said just to get out of a conversation which required some depth; he did the same thing to his teachers (without the eye roll); to his coaches, etc. Didn't mean he understood all, some, or none of what was under discussion - but if asked, he would swear he understood all.
So, you tell me, when the guy dad's paying bucks to to teach pitching asks if the kid understands what's being shown on the video, what is the response more likely to be? Does that mean the kid understands it? Does it mean he can execute it? Kids learn in different ways; some are visual; some need a coach to actually move them into certain positions they then mimic; others can look at a cartoon character in a book. Many tools which assist some coaches, are actually harmful to progress in the hands of other coaches.
it took my S literally years to understand the nuances shown in a video. He's smart, he's coordinated, he felt what the coaches wanted in his motion, he's motivated. But to this day he is still learning what can be gleaned from a video analysis - and typically there are "elders" in the room assisting in the teaching process (and these people supposedly know what they are seeing and advising).
IMO building muscle memory is a process of developing a physical "feeling" for the mechanics. Deviations from this memory will allow a pitcher who understands the feeling of the delivery to feel it and make quick adjustments. Telling a kid to watch his video, or watching it with him does nothing to develop that feeling.
Videos are a cool tool to show parents something tangible; a marketing gimmick if you may. A decent PC can pretty much do what is needed all through HS watching some homemade video of a few pitches of the kid. At the following levels, under trained coaches teaching video analysis to guys who are intimately familiar with the feeling of their delivery, video is a great tool. (BTW, many times a pitcher will feel his delivery is off and watch films to identify the problem, instead of the other way around.)
Didnt, and still doesn't, matter to me if a coach used his money to buy a cool video set up. Does he understand the basics, does he have a philosophy of a course of teaching over time, does he evolve as he learns how to teach, does he have a track record of good teaching, does your kid like him (often expressed by the kid doing e "homework" between lessons), do his guys come down with a disproportionate number of injuries, do his customers keep coming back for more instruction (even when they're pro), can he explain things so the kid understands? There's a zillion more salient questions, but whether he has a fancy camera isn't one.
Great post, Goosegg!
Get a PC. Yes, it will cost money. Yes, many times as new mechanics are introduced the kid loses velo initially as he begins to "feel" the new delivery. Yes, it's an incremental process. No, there are no guarantees of results. IMO, you can save the money on travel ball and focus on learning how to pitch (if money is an impediment).
I believe this is very good advice. And I appreciate it. Of course, 2019Son had a pitching coach this summer -- one that he connected well with and wanted to keep seeing (and one, incidentally, who is also the pitching coach at a large classification high school), and the HS coaches put the kibosh on it once school started. He's not allowed to see that pitching coach, so I guess I need to find another one, and make sure it is one who is acceptable to the high school coaches.
And if he were all about pitching, the travel ball advice makes perfect sense, too. But there's the position player side of things, too, so I'll be ponying up for travel ball.
Great post, Goosegg!
I agree.
Does anyone think that a 13 or 14 will respond to advice off of a video!
No way!
I posted and will say it once again, having too many people telling a young player what to do can do more harm than good. Stop treating your son like he is a major leaguer. Let the HS coaches coach in spring and travel coaches coach in summer. Your son has years of instruction and learning ahead. If you keep it up, when the times comes he is going to walk away from it because he will be smart enough to know its all about what you want, not him.
Do you think that your son is the only player that hit and pitched? Give thee kid one HS season to show his stuff and build on that. Understand its always worse before bit gets better, if you don't get that you know nothing about being an athlete.
Jeesh, give the kid as break.
Great post, Goosegg!
I agree.
Does anyone think that a 13 or 14 will respond to advice off of a video!
No way!
I posted and will say it once again, having too many people telling a young player what to do can do more harm than good. Stop treating your son like he is a major leaguer. Let the HS coaches coach in spring and travel coaches coach in summer. Your son has years of instruction and learning ahead. If you keep it up, when the times comes he is going to walk away from it because he will be smart enough to know its all about what you want, not him.
Do you think that your son is the only player that hit and pitched? Give thee kid one HS season to show his stuff and build on that. Understand its always worse before bit gets better, if you don't get that you know nothing about being an athlete.
Jeesh, give the kid as break.
Not sure if this was directed towards me, but if so all I can say is I didn't post anything about video, one way or the other, on this thread or elsewhere. And I'm going to stay away from that topic.
And, no, of course I don't think my son is the only player who ever hit and pitched. But part of the advice given was that one option would be to "save the money on travel ball and focus on learning how to pitch" and I simply pointed out that pitching isn't the only consideration, so I wouldn't be saving the money. If that was an egregious error, I apologize.
Sorry, it was not directed to you.
Some of the advice here is good but IMO not age appropriate.
I know you don't get that, but you will someday.
You are worrying about too much stuff, really, you are.
Here's some advice: when you take a quote out of context to make a point, it diminishes your intellectual underpinnings (regardless of what you have under your kimono).
"IMO, you can save the money on travel ball and focus on learning how to pitch (if money is an impediment)." This is the entire quote.
Since my point was so poorly written, let me break it down.
Getting a kid ready for the next level (be it HS, travel, college or beyond) takes economic resources. Some families here don't have a bottomless bucket of funds to devote at all points in the process. Some will need to prioritize where the dollars go.
So, a family may be faced with the option of "either, but not both." Others, don't have the same dilemma. My point was directed to those that need to be judicious in the deployment of limited resources (as you've indicated you don't need to make that decision).
For that group, there is an even smaller set who need to drop big bucks on "catching up" to players who have more developed skills (whether that comes from arriving at the game late, receiving no real instruction on that skill, etc.) or who have decided to specialize very deeply on one skill (a whole line of debate here on what's right). For that group, if deciding between a travel ball season with all the crazy potential costs, or skill lessons, a decision needs to me made: which one?
I would never tell a kid who wants to play and can hit while he undertakes a major delivery overhaul not to play. But, I would never let a kid getting a major pitching overhaul pitch competitively until he mastered - and I mean mastered - the new mechanics. Otherwise, the kid will develop a hybrid of the two, and in stressful scenarios return to his basic muscle memory thereby undoing the entire overhaul to his detriment.
i am offering this stuff because many of these "mines" in the minefield the boards often talk about, we detonated. Now, every journey to the next level differs; even if a kid could do everything my S did, there would be no guarantee of failure or success.
Also, at every level - especially if he's the oldest - that's the level of the most excitement, most importance, most relevant. And it is - until the next level.
The real takeaway, to me, is that baseball becomes the vehicle to transcend generations, to develop family shared experiences, to have dad (and mom) to play catch with him (so he'll do it with his), to have fun, to learn to function on a team with group goals (even through its an individual game), and so so much more. If baseball catches his passion, feed that passion to the max you can afford but always keep in mind that at some level even HOFers end their careers. Cherish every single moment he lets you into his baseball life - no matter how old, it ends in a flash; and I would bet that even though intellectually we know that, when that day comes it's very very emotional.
What you experienced his last start really proves Goosegg's last post. You cannot simultaneously modify your pitching delivery and maintain game command. A pitcher needs some time away to work on things and develop new movement patterns and more importantly feel for those patterns. You can't do that with competitive pressure. That might be part of why the High school coach doesn't want him pitching for the travel team. For us we have traditionally tried to iron out changes in the fall and get some feel for them before shutting down some during winter and then try to pick back up with the changes as soon as the arm is ready early spring. If the feeling can be maintained through dry work during the winter, even better.
Ted
"Cherish every single moment he lets you into his baseball life..."
For anyone who ever reads the HSBBW and has a son coming up, in HS, in college or in Milb, this thought by Goosegg is so relevant and so pertinent and so important.
This is their moment to succeed and to fail. This is their moment to hit the walk-off, or to take a backwards K with the tying and winning runs on base. This is their moment to be in the playoffs, Regionals, the Stanford Camp, Headfirst, or any of the PG competitions.
As parents, we get a chance to observe and be fans. The game is what they make of it. Realizing they can often learn more from failure is so important for our son's in baseball and for us, as the lucky parents of a baseball player, in my view.
Take a moment and evaluate how much trust our son's place in us when they are on a baseball field fully risking failure, in front of us, in front of their teammates and coaches, in front of everyone. This is their game. Cherish the fact we get an opportunity to be a fan. Cherish the trust they show in US as PARENTS that they are willing to risk our seeing them fail.
Great stuff!
Hate to change the subject, but Jake Arietta tweeted the reason he is now so successful... He has learned to repeat his delivery 100 times a game.
BTW, is one of the secrets these days to being a great pitcher throwing away the razor?
Have to admit, I prefer the clean shaven look, but it's obvious that beards are in!
Great stuff!
Hate to change the subject, but Jake Arietta tweeted the reason he is now so successful... He has learned to repeat his delivery 100 times a game.
BTW, is one of the secrets these days to being a great pitcher throwing away the razor?
Have to admit, I prefer the clean shaven look, but it's obvious that beards are in!
You didn't change the subject you just repeated what most have been saying for 5 pages! 
1. Arrieta has a day of reckoning coming -- and I'm beyond sick of Madden's "What, us?" nonsense.
2. infielddad: Do you believe that all MILB hitting instructors are right when they change batters swings? If they were THAT good, wouldn't they be in the MLB?
And even at that level, hitting instructors get fired. So how can you be so absolute?
2. infielddad: Do you believe that all MILB hitting instructors are right when they change batters swings? If they were THAT good, wouldn't they be in the MLB?
And even at that level, hitting instructors get fired. So how can you be so absolute?
jp, I guess I will break my answer into different questions I see in your question:
1.) Do I believe all MILB hitting instructors are right in changing swings? No but I am not sure I have a breadth of experience beyond what I saw and have learned from our son and a number of his peers and reading a lot;
2.) Do I believe all Milb hitting instructors can spot a swing coming from college or HS which will not succeed in Milb to MLB? Yes, I think most can and the ones who cannot are clearly expendable quickly.
3.) Do I believe most Milb hitting instructors understand a swing which will succeed at every level from A to MLB? Yes.
4.) Do I believe there are Milb instructors and MLB organizations who believe there is a "one size fits all approach" for hitting? Yes. Do I believe there is? Nope.
5.) Do I believe most Milb hitting instructors and player development guys feel there is a one size fits all approach? No.
6.) Will hitting instructors try and push a swing which succeeds to see if there is more to be gained, in terms of power, especially? Absolutely. Will that always succeed? No, absolutely not.
I have posted this story before but will try it one more time in hopes it helps. When our son was in his first ST, the team and roving instructor felt he could hit with much more power. He was a gap to gap guy with a disproportionate amount of doubles, which his team calculated could end up being a fair number of HR's in MLB. So, they used ST to change his approach (not so much his swing) to hit ball out in front rather than seeing it long and seeing it travel. Our son struggled. The instructor asked him where he learned his approach. Upon learning "my Dad," the response was you need a new Dad.
Well, one day our son sat with the AAA team and talked with Mike Bordick and Dwayne Murphy about the changes and his struggles to adapt. Their response to the effect there are plenty of guys who tried to fully adjust their swing, could not do it and got released out of baseball. When a swing gets you hitting .300, you keep doing what you are doing until it does not hit .300 any longer. Trust your swing when your swing is successful but challenge yourself to do more and don't be afraid to try and do more. These are guys who can really hit and can really teach hitting. That day our son had 3 AB's off Randy Johnson and proved his swing could work, at least so that hitting out in front stopped and hitting the way he could got him a full season assignment, where he flourished and made the All-Star game for his league.
There is no one right way to be successful. On the other hand, there are some swings and approaches a quality Milb hitting instructor can see won't be successful in my view.
2. infielddad: Do you believe that all MILB hitting instructors are right when they change batters swings? If they were THAT good, wouldn't they be in the MLB?
And even at that level, hitting instructors get fired. So how can you be so absolute?
jp, I guess I will break my answer into different questions I see in your question:
1.) Do I believe all MILB hitting instructors are right in changing swings? No but I am not sure I have a breadth of experience beyond what I saw and have learned from our son and a number of his peers and reading a lot;
2.) Do I believe all Milb hitting instructors can spot a swing coming from college or HS which will not succeed in Milb to MLB? Yes, I think most can and the ones who cannot are clearly expendable quickly.
3.) Do I believe most Milb hitting instructors understand a swing which will succeed at every level from A to MLB? Yes.
4.) Do I believe there are Milb instructors and MLB organizations who believe there is a "one size fits all approach" for hitting? Yes. Do I believe there is? Nope.
5.) Do I believe most Milb hitting instructors and player development guys feel there is a one size fits all approach? No.
6.) Will hitting instructors try and push a swing which succeeds to see if there is more to be gained, in terms of power, especially? Absolutely. Will that always succeed? No, absolutely not.
I have posted this story before but will try it one more time in hopes it helps. When our son was in his first ST, the team and roving instructor felt he could hit with much more power. He was a gap to gap guy with a disproportionate amount of doubles, which his team calculated could end up being a fair number of HR's in MLB. So, they used ST to change his approach (not so much his swing) to hit ball out in front rather than seeing it long and seeing it travel. Our son struggled. The instructor asked him where he learned his approach. Upon learning "my Dad," the response was you need a new Dad.
Well, one day our son sat with the AAA team and talked with Mike Bordick and Dwayne Murphy about the changes and his struggles to adapt. Their response to the effect there are plenty of guys who tried to fully adjust their swing, could not do it and got released out of baseball. When a swing gets you hitting .300, you keep doing what you are doing until it does not hit .300 any longer. Trust your swing when your swing is successful but challenge yourself to do more and don't be afraid to try and do more. These are guys who can really hit and can really teach hitting. That day our son had 3 AB's off Randy Johnson and proved his swing could work, at least so that hitting out in front stopped and hitting the way he could got him a full season assignment, where he flourished and made the All-Star game for his league.
There is not one right way to be successful. On the other hand, there are some swings and approaches a quality Milb hitting instructor can see won't be successful in my view.
Phillies fans are familiar with the sad case of Domonic Brown, who tore up the minors but his swing was judged to be too long. Harold Reynolds and the MLB network crew covered it in this brief video a few years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fYikwg_OiE The ex-players made many of the same points you did, infielddad.
I would never trust an instructor who doesn't use video.
Uh oh - then you wouldn't be able to trust the youth PC that taught our older son to pitch! (who has had several of his pupils reach the big leagues), nor his travel coach, nor his HS coach, nor one of his college coaches. Not sure about minor league and major league coaches?
...nor our younger son's youth, HS (who I consider the best my kids ever had) and travel coaches either. Not sure about his college or minor league coaches.
Incredible whats been achieved without it, and no, I'm not criticizing the use of it either.
Read Goosegg's post - thats about how I see it too.
I would never trust an instructor who doesn't use video.
Uh oh - then you wouldn't be able to trust the youth PC that taught our older son to pitch! (who has had several of his pupils reach the big leagues), nor his travel coach, nor his HS coach, nor one of his college coaches. Not sure about minor league and major league coaches?
...nor our younger son's youth, HS (who I consider the best my kids ever had) and travel coaches either. Not sure about his college or minor league coaches.
Incredible whats been achieved without it, and no, I'm not criticizing the use of it either.
Read Goosegg's post - thats about how I see it too.
In the the right hands video is a great tool, but you could make a plausible case against trusting the coach who does use video. Before slo-mo video and all the snazzy software that comes with it came along, you had to have lots of experience and a really, really good eye to parse a baseball swing or a pitching motion in real time. But now every dad in America is studying super slow motion LL swings on their iPads, drawing all kinds of lines and stuff on the screen, and superimposing them against Albert Pujols. The result is the rise internet gurus who have never played the game.
I would never trust an instructor who doesn't use video.
Uh oh - then you wouldn't be able to trust the youth PC that taught our older son to pitch! (who has had several of his pupils reach the big leagues), nor his travel coach, nor his HS coach, nor one of his college coaches. Not sure about minor league and major league coaches?
...nor our younger son's youth, HS (who I consider the best my kids ever had) and travel coaches either. Not sure about his college or minor league coaches.
Incredible whats been achieved without it, and no, I'm not criticizing the use of it either.
Read Goosegg's post - thats about how I see it too.
In the the right hands video is a great tool, but you could make a plausible case against trusting the coach who does use video. Before slo-mo video and all the snazzy software that comes with it came along, you had to have lots of experience and a really, really good eye to parse a baseball swing or a pitching motion in real time. But now every dad in America is studying super slow motion LL swings on their iPads, drawing all kinds of lines and stuff on the screen, and superimposing them against Albert Pujols. The result is the rise internet gurus who have never played the game.
However, don't be too sure that some of those "rising internet gurus" with no playing experience don't own skills that are better equipped for today's training and instruction methods. Many of the old school coaches that think they can eyeball everything were teaching based on false assumptions for decades. Many continue to do so. Just like analytics, most often applied by those with little actual on-field experience, marked a change in management styles, don't discount the value of those with advanced knowledge of kinesiology and advanced video analysis skills even if they have no playing experience.
My take on video is that, if you're teaching a kid to pitch from scratch or correcting flagrant flaws, video may not be necessary. However, once you get to advanced techniques and minute changes, video is a must. It also doesn't require high level equipment. I think a good pitching coach can get by with almost any video equipment that allows him to slow down the mechanics enough to see what is happening. I wouldn't pay money to anyone who holds himself out as a professional, yet doesn't use 21st century tools. Why would I when I can find plenty of competent people in the same field who do?
I would never trust an instructor who doesn't use video.
Uh oh - then you wouldn't be able to trust the youth PC that taught our older son to pitch! (who has had several of his pupils reach the big leagues), nor his travel coach, nor his HS coach, nor one of his college coaches. Not sure about minor league and major league coaches?
...nor our younger son's youth, HS (who I consider the best my kids ever had) and travel coaches either. Not sure about his college or minor league coaches.
Incredible whats been achieved without it, and no, I'm not criticizing the use of it either.
Read Goosegg's post - thats about how I see it too.
In the the right hands video is a great tool, but you could make a plausible case against trusting the coach who does use video. Before slo-mo video and all the snazzy software that comes with it came along, you had to have lots of experience and a really, really good eye to parse a baseball swing or a pitching motion in real time. But now every dad in America is studying super slow motion LL swings on their iPads, drawing all kinds of lines and stuff on the screen, and superimposing them against Albert Pujols. The result is the rise internet gurus who have never played the game.
However, don't be too sure that some of those "rising internet gurus" with no playing experience don't own skills that are better equipped for today's training and instruction methods. Many of the old school coaches that think they can eyeball everything were teaching based on false assumptions for decades. Many continue to do so. Just like analytics, most often applied by those with little actual on-field experience, marked a change in management styles, don't discount the value of those with advanced knowledge of kinesiology and advanced video analysis skills even if they have no playing experience.
My take on video is that, if you're teaching a kid to pitch from scratch or correcting flagrant flaws, video may not be necessary. However, once you get to advanced techniques and minute changes, video is a must. It also doesn't require high level equipment. I think a good pitching coach can get by with almost any video equipment that allows him to slow down the mechanics enough to see what is happening. I wouldn't pay money to anyone who holds himself out as a professional, yet doesn't use 21st century tools. Why would I when I can find plenty of competent people in the same field who do?
Yes, but here's the thing. It starts with "coach must us video." So he pulls out his eye phone and takes a shot. Is that good enough? Or does it become "coach has to have some super 10D ultrasonic, laser processing, electron video?" Video can be deceiving.
Just maybe some of the old guys teaching the "wrong" things came about from trial and error? So a player was struggling with something. And the old coach tells a story about 1900 something and says "lets try this sonny." And like "magic" the correction takes hold.
I like using video and technology. 20 years ago I would have been the first to say all the technology is worthless. Now I am a technology freak! Don't understand it all, but I am learning. Times change.
First, TPM's comment about over-coaching is SO right. Especially for boys who battle getting out of their own heads.
Second: My son's coach told me last night that he video'd JP's swing in the cages a few weeks ago -- with an iPhone. He showed my son his swing alongside Adrian Gonzalez's.
Importantly, these two have been together for almost four years ... and this very well-known and highly respected coach really knows my son.
He told me that seeing that side by side video caused a light bulb to come on for JP. And that's been obvious on the field since.
I know nothing's absolute here, but I believe it was a big learning for my son. So I would NEVER say video cannot be a powerful training aid.
Not that anyone has said that specifically -- but there it is.
Go CARDS!
