Chico
check for a PM
BaseballBUDDY posted:...
My sons coach (PI) followed me for 3 weeks and could tell me where I ate and what my game routine was.
....
Wait, what??? Please expand... very interesting.
BaseballBUDDY posted:Chico and CaCO3
i counsel families (parents not players; as I’m not a baseball “guy”) on what needs to be done on the recruiting, placement, and academic side.
IMO, parents need to get their players to the team/events/tourneys that will best feature the player based on the desired schools. In addition, there should be a similar focus/process on a few schools that meet a few items on your/families check list.
The PG PBR game is only 1/4 of what should be done regarding exposure.
With that said, and after speaking with players and parents separately; The player needs to go into the events with NO Pressure.
They need to have fun and play balls out at every event.
If they are focused on parent level stuff, It ain’t fun no more and that’s why some check out or attempt to over achieve.
Ultimately, the player wants the parent to be happy. So if you bring the scouting program stuff to him/her, they will either focus on it and take away from what they should be focused on, or they’ll check out.
When you can drop Johnny off at the field and come back in the 3rd inning, you’ve graduated to a better level of understanding. My Opinion
Johnny knows you love him and what to provide the best opportunity you can package, but he’s the one on the field and ‘Playing” is where the recruiters will see him best. The assumption is that the Academics/Test are on par with the schools sought.
More than a few recruiters said, “when we are recruiting a player; we are also recruiting the parents, since they’ll be the one in Johnny’s ear after he has a rough time, which is gonna happen.”
Parent interjection is one of the causes for lack of interests in players.
My sons coach (PI) followed me for 3 weeks and could tell me where I ate and what my game routine was.
They know a lot about the player on the field and nothing about his background. You are the background; MAKE A GOOD IMPRESSION; SOMEONE IS ALWAYS WATCHING
This means drop him and go.
1)Stay away from the dugout and back stops.
2) No comments about “Blue” coaches or other players and parents
NO OFFENSE INTENDED TO ANYONE
It's always interesting what gets taken the wrong way on this site. I made it to approximately 15% of my sons games last year. I followed along on Diamondkast but didn't take off work to go watch an 11am game on a tuesday. He's been to two college camps, I wasn't there. He's been to a PBR showcase, I wasn't there. I did think he should be told that PG had moved so he didn't sound foolish if he were to talk to someone about playing PG games at lakepoint, other than that, I rarely discuss anything with him from this site.
cabbagedad posted:BaseballBUDDY posted:...
My sons coach (PI) followed me for 3 weeks and could tell me where I ate and what my game routine was.
....
Wait, what??? Please expand... very interesting.
No offense taken B-BUDDY.
CaCO, not picking on you at all, but your post plus BUDDY's paint an interesting picture when read together: Sounds as if you think your boy still has a lot of growing up to do (mine certainly does). And yet the accepted wisdom is that parents are supposed to leave their kids more or less alone to deal with college coaches who are adults and experts in their field, concerning transactions (college admission) involving $300,000+ at a private school, not to mention the importance of a college education to most folks' lifelong employment prospects. (Your kid probably is not going to play professional baseball. Mine isn't either.)
I don't say a word to my son's coaches about playing time or anything baseball-related. I can't imagine doing so unless I had a concern about his health. And I wouldn't dream of talking with a college coach about my kid--that message has been hammered home to me repeatedly.
But when baseball inevitably gets wrapped up in college admission, there is something very odd about adult coaches who are experts in their field insisting on the right to negotiate high-dollar deals solo with children. (Four years at private college = ~$300.000) If I did that as a lawyer, I'd lose my license and possibly face criminal penalties. Just sayin'...
And yeah, I know parents are "allowed" to get involved when talk turns to scholarship dollars. That doesn't cure all that precedes that discussion. (And for many players, scholarship money isn't on offer.)
[I'm being intentionally somewhat extreme here. I wouldn't expect to stand next to my kid while he deals with the Admissions Office if he were applying to college as a non-athlete, and I don't want to do that for baseball recruiting. But I do think what I hear in the baseball recruiting world about getting parents out of the picture serves to give coaches a leg up more than it benefits HS students, who even if they are 18 are not exactly worldly wise.]
Chico, I know some 15 year olds that could out negotiate many adults. I also know some 18 year olds that say huh? a LOT even when asked basic questions. I learned a long time ago that each kid differs. Would I let my kid talk to a college coach alone, yes. But I have given him strict instructions not to sign or agree to anything and he has to say "Since my parents are paying I promised I'd talk things over with them before i agreed to anything."
My son is 16 and a junior. My son will start his senior year STILL 16! Yes, he has a lot of growing up to do. No, he isn't capable of relaying simple messages, or even remembering to close the garage door. He's gotten MUCH better about remembering to turn OFF the car when he parks...but again, he's not going to negotiate anything. If a coach took the time to get to know him they would know why. If they aren't taking the time to get to know him, then why would I want my kid to go there?
What differentiates 2 players with exact metrics ( player and student)?
All things being equal, The Parents are the 6th element.
Since he is a product of his immediate and long-term environment, the parents may be the deciding factor.
You never know who’s sitting next to you in the stands or mulling about.
My sons school knew our hotel and had a sleuth in the lobby and parking lot to monitor our actions before the show .
They showed my son a report of my activity covering 2 weeks in Florida and Georgia.
At the Offering, they told my son, “ we love what you do on the field and your academics are great, but we had no idea about you as a person. We followed you and your dad to see the character of the family and your interactions.”
“ We have exactly 246 players on our recruiting list, and your name is not here. Your not on anyone’s radar, we checked.”
Thank your Dad, “ Here’s what we’d we’d like to offer you as a freshman.”
If I didn’t see it, I would not have believed it. They knew each Waffle House visit, the post-game cooler of Gatorade/water in the trunk, how often I sent players back to change into their uniforms before getting into my car at the hotel ( threw away those darn slippers in lieu of turfs), etc.
Son was a 2013 NE OF and would up playing for a SEC D1 power.
He did attend PG WWBA but was already on the map by then because this school followed him, which made others follow.
i asked coach how did he know of my son and did he see his stats and info on the PG site. He hadn’t and doesn’t use it. “I initially have a referral from an Game Official, Juco coach, recruiting coach. Those sites have to much artificial info and are not as reliable as our own eyes.”
Note: They do subscribe at the $400 level ( probably higher now) because of the address and phone numbers; which the parents update.”
Just 1 story and there are many out there.
i hope that was helpful
BaseballBUDDY posted:What differentiates 2 players with exact metrics ( player and student)?
All things being equal, The Parents are the 6th element.
Since he is a product of his immediate and long-term environment, the parents may be the deciding factor.
You never know who’s sitting next to you in the stands or mulling about.
My sons school knew our hotel and had a sleuth in the lobby and parking lot to monitor our actions before the show .
They showed my son a report of my activity covering 2 weeks in Florida and Georgia.
At the Offering, they told my son, “ we love what you do on the field and your academics are great, but we had no idea about you as a person. We followed you and your dad to see the character of the family and your interactions.”
“ We have exactly 246 players on our recruiting list, and your name is not here. Your not on anyone’s radar, we checked.”
Thank your Dad, “ Here’s what we’d we’d like to offer you as a freshman.”
If I didn’t see it, I would not have believed it. They knew each Waffle House visit, the post-game cooler of Gatorade/water in the trunk, how often I sent players back to change into their uniforms before getting into my car at the hotel ( threw away those darn slippers in lieu of turfs), etc.
Son was a 2013 NE OF and would up playing for a SEC D1 power.
He did attend PG WWBA but was already on the map by then because this school followed him, which made others follow.
i asked coach how did he know of my son and did he see his stats and info on the PG site. He hadn’t and doesn’t use it. “I initially have a referral from an Game Official, Juco coach, recruiting coach. Those sites have to much artificial info and are not as reliable as our own eyes.”
Note: They do subscribe at the $400 level ( probably higher now) because of the address and phone numbers; which the parents update.”
Just 1 story and there are many out there.
i hope that was helpful
Wow, that's bordering on what I would consider to be creepy lol
Buckeye 2015 posted:BaseballBUDDY posted:
My sons school knew our hotel and had a sleuth in the lobby and parking lot to monitor our actions before the show .
They showed my son a report of my activity covering 2 weeks in Florida and Georgia.
Wow, that's bordering on what I would consider to be creepy lol
Bordering on? That IS creepy!
LuckyCat posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:BaseballBUDDY posted:
My sons school knew our hotel and had a sleuth in the lobby and parking lot to monitor our actions before the show .
They showed my son a report of my activity covering 2 weeks in Florida and Georgia.
Wow, that's bordering on what I would consider to be creepy lol
Bordering on? That IS creepy!
I know that millionaires get to be eccentric. I'm sure it is similar with top program coaches...they are quirky if you will. But this story is just weird.
CaCO3Girl posted:LuckyCat posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:BaseballBUDDY posted:
My sons school knew our hotel and had a sleuth in the lobby and parking lot to monitor our actions before the show .
They showed my son a report of my activity covering 2 weeks in Florida and Georgia.
Wow, that's bordering on what I would consider to be creepy lol
Bordering on? That IS creepy!
I know that millionaires get to be eccentric. I'm sure it is similar with top program coaches...they are quirky if you will. But this story is just weird.
BaseballBUDDY posted:What differentiates 2 players with exact metrics ( player and student)?
All things being equal, The Parents are the 6th element.
...
i asked coach how did he know of my son and did he see his stats and info on the PG site. He hadn’t and doesn’t use it. “I initially have a referral from an Game Official, Juco coach, recruiting coach. ...
i hope that was helpful
Yeah, I'm with ya on the parent thing... just hadn't heard it taken to that extreme before. Thanks, for sharing.
I also left your quote (for the benefit of other readers) regarding referral from game official, among others. This is one that many are not aware of and often overlook. Many of those guys often see more of a player than anyone outside of the player's own teams and ARE used as good somewhat neutral resources, particularly when local college recruiting is in play, which is so often the case. They tend to know the whole character and consistency of a player, seeing them in full game environments many times.
Weird? It was insane. Luckily I’m able to work remote, which forced me to go to the far reaches of the outfield with my laptop or relegated me to the parking lot at East Cobb (2013).
i thought, “ someone’s always watching you,” referred to the players.
As a NE guy, my sons prime sport was Ice Hockey not base, so he was already behind the curve.
Ultimately, it didn’t matter, because he was seen at an event that would never be posted here ( major SE Summer program ( 3 teams at each age above 14 in Fla) annual event.
2 showcases lasted 5 hours. 2.5 for the program players and 2.5 for the balance of players in the tourney. Note: all players on the field for showcase.
Thats right, if you were a team on with the Sponsor, you shagged flies for 2 + hours before an at bat.
Recruiting Coordinator said, “your boy climbed in the stands for foul balls, carried the bucket to the mound, and positioned in Oppo Field for every at bat.” 200 kids on the field and I could not keep my eyes off him.
These recruiters see stuff that don’t show up on the metrics and Scouring sites. They are baseball guys.
Our boys need to know how to show well at showcases and events.
If your doing what everyone does, your within the Bell Curve. You need to make sure your boy is outside of the curve.
Again, this was 2013.
My son went to Omaha 2 Times , so I guess he was on the far end of the curve, but this applies to all of our boys in a saturated market.
Baseball at this time is an individual sport. They don’t recruit teams
I'm sure college coaches who interact with parents or happen to see them out and about are sizing them up a bit. Just another piece of data to add to the decision-making process. And I have seen some parent behavior at scouting events that would be a red flag for me if I was a college coach. But, I would not take kindly to a coach literally conducting surveillance on my family. That's just bizarre. For 99% schools, it would probably mean we would look elsewhere.
LuckyCat posted:I'm sure college coaches who interact with parents or happen to see them out and about are sizing them up a bit. Just another piece of data to add to the decision-making process. And I have seen some parent behavior at scouting events that would be a red flag for me if I was a college coach. But, I would not take kindly to a coach literally conducting surveillance on my family. That's just bizarre. For 99% schools, it would probably mean we would look elsewhere.
Lucky
wait until you are there, before deciding what you would do.
For our Johnny, it was the only school and they have 6-8 players frayed each year.
He’a now in AA and although the coaching experience was tough, he has life-long friendships with his signing class.
We’re paying to play in this game.
BTW, he started in CF for 3 seasons and wouldn’t be where he is without the call from his school.
This is just to let parents know that there was another element to recruiting that had not been mentioned.
I think that is the exception rather than the rule and/or some stroking going on.
Most, if not all coaches know that they will have little to no contact with the parents in college.
my son was recruited by one of the best sec baseball schools and nothing like this happened.
Shoveit4Ks posted:I think that is the exception rather than the rule and/or some stroking going on.
Most, if not all coaches know that they will have little to no contact with the parents in college.
my son was recruited by one of the best sec baseball schools and nothing like this happened.
This situation was at the far end of the bell curve as I mentioned.
but worth noting , so parents behave well during their sons recruitment
This might explain why the powerhouse SEC schools didn't recruit my son......their spies saw me in the hotel lobby in the evening after a bad outing in ATL! ! HA! Funny story related to this....one of my good friends lives next door to an SEC RC, (and I live two doors down from another assistant coach of same team) I am sure he heard us enjoying ourselves on the back deck on a Friday night.
Baseballbuddy: when you reply press quote. Then type at the bottom of what you just quoted, not another reply box.
246 recruits. If they followed just 10% of them that's 25 people following parent/parents around 24/7. That's one hell of a budget.
SomeBaseballDad posted:246 recruits. If they followed just 10% of them that's 25 people following parent/parents around 24/7. That's one hell of a budget.
Which is why I call B#%^*}#^^
Chico Escuela posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:Chico Escuela posted:Not sure I'm pleased to see PBR make this move... I understand PBR has essentially been a state-by-state franchise model, but my experience with them in NC has been frustrating. Son did a workout day with them in summer of his freshman year. His numbers from that day are on the PBR web site. No problem, and cost a fraction of what a PG showcase would have cost.
BUT, Son then pitched in a couple of NC PBR summer tournaments after his sophomore year. PBR had a radar gun at his games and was writing down notes, but they never posted any data from those events--not on any player, so far as I can tell. So son's PBR profile still shows 2 year old info, and apparently will continue to do so unless he pays to attend another workout. I don't get this model. When you pitch in a PG tournament, new velo data and other stats get added to your profile as verified measurables you can share with college coaches. Playing in a PBR tournament gets you... what exactly, unless a school you are interested in happens to be there? The PG model seems a lot better to me, esp for pitchers. Am I missing something?
If your son is a pitcher, no coach from any school is going to consider him without seeing him with their own eyes....and their own numbers from their own gun. If your son has interest in a school, email the RC and let them know. Let them know where/when they can see your son. Give them measurables from the PBR guy that saw him...even if it's not on their site. Coaches know that that kind of info isn't updated all the time. Unless your son is a sophomore throwing 88-90, coaches aren't going to look at a site, see the velo and say "oh man, I need to go find this kid"....it just doesn't work that way. If he's a top level kid throwing that hard....they'll find him....whether he's on a site or not. PBR does a great job of getting coaches to their showcases. The coaches watch the kids...and take their own measurables. Heck, my son had a coach tell him that they had him 3 mph over what another coach had him at the same event...coaches trust their eyes and their equipment more than anything else. I wouldn't worry about numbers from a showcase...if a coach wants to see him, they'll see him.
With regard to PBR....each state is individually operated...yes, some are better than others. Don't discount the entire PBR operation due to one incident in your particular state. They usually get things adjusted and work more smoothly the longer they've been in a state.
1) Yes, I know coaches want to see players in person. I live in NC. My son is looking almost exclusively at HA schools in other parts of the country (his choice). Those schools do not attend small weekend tournaments or showcases in our region, but some do go to PG events at, e.g., Lake Point and Ft. Myers.
PBR held a "showcase" at one local college last year that was attended by zero college coaches. Yes, zero. PBR is pretty new in NC and it has potential; and ~$200 for the chance to get some independent measurables isn't a terrible deal. But at a PG tournament my son could get those measurables and maybe be seen by a few coaches as well. And if he plays a PG event, I know his velo numbers and stats will actually get posted online--PBR seems to be hit or miss (mostly miss).
2) My son was, in fact, a sophomore (now a Jr) throwing >85 mph. He's not a P5 prospect, but it absolutely helped when he emailed coaches to be able to direct them to PG's web site for verified gun readings and some stats. I have no illusions that the PG site alone will persuade a coach, but it certainly has helped get some coaches to watch him when they are at a tournament he's attending. If he had only been to PBR events, he would have nothing to show for it but some numbers from two years ago
3) I acknowledged in my first post that PBR is run state-by-state. And my son has played several of their tournaments. You shouldn't assume that because you may have good experiences with PBR in your area, that they are good everywhere. My experience has been that PG runs a much, much tighter ship. They also charge a LOT more (as I also acknowledged).
Could it be that you are trying to say that PG handles things in a more uniform way across the board compared to PBR? That has been our experience. And that is why I think, at this point, PG has more credibility. (Things can change tho).
I think they can all help. I like PG. my son has been to 8 events. I like PBR. My son has been to 2 events. My son got more offers and committed at a PBR event. Event to event, PBR Futures was better than any event we’ve ever attended including the Jr National and the Underclass All American. There were 250 coaches for 2 fields. I have never seen that at any other event. Would still attend PG events and PBR. Some is just luck if the draw on who is watching when you kill it.
LuckyCat posted:I'm sure college coaches who interact with parents or happen to see them out and about are sizing them up a bit. Just another piece of data to add to the decision-making process. And I have seen some parent behavior at scouting events that would be a red flag for me if I was a college coach. But, I would not take kindly to a coach literally conducting surveillance on my family. That's just bizarre. For 99% schools, it would probably mean we would look elsewhere.
The first RC that started seriously looking at my son had come to see him 4 weekends in a row. The first time I talked to him, he was talking to my son's travel coach....the coach pointed at me in the stands and motioned for me to come down. RC just said "hello, I'm Joe Smith...we like what we see in your son". That was all. The next couple times he showed up, he would give me a quick wave or hello as he walked in. The last time, I was walking to a restroom that was 100 yds or so from the field, he was walking back to the field. I wasn't sure what to do....so I was just going to say hello as we passed. He stopped me....said a few things.....like, how's it going, nice weather, son had a nice game, etc. Nothing specific. I didn't say more because I didn't know what he was allowed to say to me, if anything and there were plenty of other coaches around. The first time he really talked to my son, he did say that he enjoyed meeting both myself and my ex-wife and hoped we'd consider being a part of their program.....so yes, they do pay attention to that stuff
SomeBaseballDad posted:246 recruits. If they followed just 10% of them that's 25 people following parent/parents around 24/7. That's one hell of a budget.
Shoveit
This specifically related to a off -the-radar NE player being recruited by a power house. It’s an outlier and not the norm, as stated.
The point was to let parents know that they are also being watched. This is primarily at games.
Stay woke my friend
CaCO3Girl posted:Baseballbuddy: when you reply press quote. Then type at the bottom of what you just quoted, not another reply box.
Thanks. Got it
Buckeye 2015 posted:LuckyCat posted:I'm sure college coaches who interact with parents or happen to see them out and about are sizing them up a bit. Just another piece of data to add to the decision-making process. And I have seen some parent behavior at scouting events that would be a red flag for me if I was a college coach. But, I would not take kindly to a coach literally conducting surveillance on my family. That's just bizarre. For 99% schools, it would probably mean we would look elsewhere.
The first RC that started seriously looking at my son had come to see him 4 weekends in a row. The first time I talked to him, he was talking to my son's travel coach....the coach pointed at me in the stands and motioned for me to come down. RC just said "hello, I'm Joe Smith...we like what we see in your son". That was all. The next couple times he showed up, he would give me a quick wave or hello as he walked in. The last time, I was walking to a restroom that was 100 yds or so from the field, he was walking back to the field. I wasn't sure what to do....so I was just going to say hello as we passed. He stopped me....said a few things.....like, how's it going, nice weather, son had a nice game, etc. Nothing specific. I didn't say more because I didn't know what he was allowed to say to me, if anything and there were plenty of other coaches around. The first time he really talked to my son, he did say that he enjoyed meeting both myself and my ex-wife and hoped we'd consider being a part of their program.....so yes, they do pay attention to that stuff
No doubt Buckeye. But I also think your story speaks volumes about how much interest the coach had in your son. I suspect he was trying to make a good impression on you at the same time you were trying to make a good impression on him.
246 recruits. My son had seven offers from DI schools. I don't believe we ran across a team that had more than 4/5 coaches associated with the baseball program That's a sh#+load of players for that many people to keep track of. I'd assume they are including every player that contacted them even in the most casual way? Or is this the norm for baseball powerhouse programs? That seems like a overwhelming amount of information to keep track of.
The other thing I find odd is that a program like this would be able to pick from the cream of crop and would have little need to search for obscure players.
Not calling BS, just reasonable questions.
SomeBaseballDad posted:246 recruits. My son had seven offers from DI schools. I don't believe we ran across a team that had more than 4/5 coaches associated with the baseball program That's a sh#+load of players for that many people to keep track of. I'd assume they are including every player that contacted them even in the most casual way? Or is this the norm for baseball powerhouse programs? That seems like a overwhelming amount of information to keep track of.
The other thing I find odd is that a program like this would be able to pick from the cream of crop and would have little need to search for obscure players.
Not calling BS, just reasonable questions.
The school has the top in-state HS and Juco players on their list.
In addition, they have some 1st round HS draft pitchers from out-of-state.
In my sons case, he was an out-of-state guy that was not on anyone’s radar (that changed when the school started to track him). He happened to be a the right place at the right time.
Since they didn’t have any info or game looks, they had to follow his games for a few weeks.
Again, the reason for the comments was to alert parents that “someone is always watching.”
I still contend that you have to a terrible parent/person for them to pass on your kid if he fits their needs....and if he is really good they may even disregard these people to get the kid.
Shoveit4Ks posted:I still contend that you have to a terrible parent/person for them to pass on your kid if he fits their needs....and if he is really good they may even disregard these people to get the kid.
100% agree. Son’s HS senior year I see D1 coach scouting his game. One of coach’s signees is playing, and he’s watching a few other kids on both teams. Signee’s dad sidles up next to D1 coach and bends his ear for the entire game. Coach is stoned-faced. I’m thinking, poor kid, coach is gonna hate this kid.
Fast forward 4 years. Kid had 3 good years pitching in college and was drafted in a middle round. I’m at a high school game and I see the coach and this dad sitting together. Dad still yapping non-stop. Coach still stone-faced.
I could see an annoying parent being a tiebreaker, in a bad way. I think Baseball Buddy's message -- don't be the overbearing or annoying parent -- is a good one, whether or not anyone is watching.
My son's travel coach said that every college coach he talks to inquires about a prospect's family. He just wants to know "are they easy to deal with". He said that there will invariably be tough times for the player, and the coach wants to make sure that the family is a stabilizing factor, and not an agitator.
Stabilizing factor?
Parents have nothing to do with baseball in college. Pay the bills, support your kid and stay out of the way.
Stabilizing factor = support. Sorry for the extra syllables.
Shoveit4Ks posted:I still contend that you have to a terrible parent/person for them to pass on your kid if he fits their needs....and if he is really good they may even disregard these people to get the kid.
You’re probably correct for Blue Chippers. They are not the majority of players.
Your kid either shows up and performs or he doesn't. If a player is having a hard time in college they either handle it or they don't. Coaches can't be worried about having a good support system or if his family will be there for him when he's in a slump or struggling in school. They need guys who will help them win. That's not to say they're heartless and don't care, but rarely do they not recruit players because of their parents. Coaches are worried about winning, keeping their players eligible, and them not getting in trouble. To think a top 25 school would not recruit a kid because his mother is obnoxious or his father is loud, cold, or arrogant is silly.
PABaseball posted:Your kid either shows up and performs or he doesn't. If a player is having a hard time in college they either handle it or they don't. Coaches can't be worried about having a good support system or if his family will be there for him when he's in a slump or struggling in school. They need guys who will help them win. That's not to say they're heartless and don't care, but rarely do they not recruit players because of their parents. Coaches are worried about winning, keeping their players eligible, and them not getting in trouble. To think a top 25 school would not recruit a kid because his mother is obnoxious or his father is loud, cold, or arrogant is silly.
True, for Blue Chippers.
As the majority of HS players will not be top 25 players, it’s good for parents to be conscious of there actions as they can be an influencing factor in the recruiting process.
Apples do fall next to their trees.