Someone will jump on LP and not care that the top teams show up. They will figure out how many teams of any level does it take to make money on any given week or weekend. Remember, there are all levels of travel ball now and all of them are willing to pay whether the scouts are there or not. I went to watch some of our kids this year and realized that parents will pay big money to play at small colleges with no one there to watch. The Canes have numerous teams that their players pay a lot and they go to small colleges with no scouts there including the school where it is being played and parents still are happy so the scouts don't have to be there for teams to come there.
Lots of discussion on the GA youth board about this. Triple crown has had a huge presence in GA but the youth director, Tony, has now boarded the PG train and the events that have been triple crown...such as the Showdown in Savannah, Battle at the Beach, Forsyth County Slugfest will now be PG events.
He said "The only Perfect Game events to operate out of the Lakepoint Sports Complex will be the 15u, 16u, and 17u WWBA Championships In June and July."
So, it looks like the big PG events, for now, are still at Lakepoint.
http://www.nwgabaseball.org/sn....asp?TOPIC_ID=109832
I have to say on a side note, that Tony VonDolteren has done an AMAZING job with youth baseball in GA. Rarely have I met a person who seemed to care more about the boys than what his wallet was taking in. I've personally seen him raking a field after rain trying to get the games to go on. Really an outstanding guy, PG chose very well.
Tony moving up to the big time. Good guy, met him years ago when i was running tournaments. I always like the TC youth tournaments over Utrip. Staying in the game that long means he was doing things right, so many folks come and go thinking the quick buck is the answer and they are no longer around.
PitchingFan posted:Someone will jump on LP and not care that the top teams show up. They will figure out how many teams of any level does it take to make money on any given week or weekend. Remember, there are all levels of travel ball now and all of them are willing to pay whether the scouts are there or not. I went to watch some of our kids this year and realized that parents will pay big money to play at small colleges with no one there to watch. The Canes have numerous teams that their players pay a lot and they go to small colleges with no scouts there including the school where it is being played and parents still are happy so the scouts don't have to be there for teams to come there.
You may be right but three years ago a LP employee told us what PG paid monthly to lease the fields and if that number was correct, let’s just say that LP is in serious trouble.
CaCO3Girl posted:Lots of discussion on the GA youth board about this. Triple crown has had a huge presence in GA but the youth director, Tony, has now boarded the PG train and the events that have been triple crown...such as the Showdown in Savannah, Battle at the Beach, Forsyth County Slugfest will now be PG events.
He said "The only Perfect Game events to operate out of the Lakepoint Sports Complex will be the 15u, 16u, and 17u WWBA Championships In June and July."
So, it looks like the big PG events, for now, are still at Lakepoint.
http://www.nwgabaseball.org/sn....asp?TOPIC_ID=109832
I have to say on a side note, that Tony VonDolteren has done an AMAZING job with youth baseball in GA. Rarely have I met a person who seemed to care more about the boys than what his wallet was taking in. I've personally seen him raking a field after rain trying to get the games to go on. Really an outstanding guy, PG chose very well.
I agree that Tony does a great job. However, the TC tournaments are now more expensive and still uses the same facility as before w/o the advantage of the nice turf fields and working scoreboards at LP. The only additional benefits are DiamondKast (which requires additional fees to get access to more details), and having PG profile on kids. I personally never use DiamondKast as I can always find the GC for the teams playing, and I don't see any need for PG profile on kids below 14u. And this development just took away another good option and alternative in the Atlanta youth tournament scene.
Edited to add: bottom line, I'm happy for Tony but not sure how this is better for the Atlanta youth baseball scene.
I have been reading this thread with great interest. It seems like PG’s biggest single-event revenue generators are the WWBA events at LakePoint. Not sure what kind of deal they had to use that facility for that event and others, but any significant increase in rent for the facility is going to impact PG bottom line, which is why they are in business. Supplementing that with more regional events is a natural move, especially since those events in GA draw very few western US teams. I think if they don’t come to an agreement on a lease deal, you will see different organizations using LP, and whether they are in the 14-18U ages really doesn’t matter to anyone except for the fact that local GA teams usually don’t require hotels, so it impacts the overall economy. I would say, in my opinion, that if PG is using their overall economic impact to essential extort a lease deal that puts the venue into bankruptcy just to enrich themselves, then how can this be a good thing for baseball? Will they use the same strategy with other venues?
“Just to enrich themselves”. Isn’t that capitalism?
Follow PG on twitter. The last couple days you can see their expansion plans for next year. Heavy NE expansion, midwest, FL and AZ. Out to diversify geographically before competition does. Very little change in Texas. Split WWBA to East and west. Added top level “invite only” WWBA to Hoover, AL.
It is what it is. Son is almost through w travel ball. Will look back on these times as good old days. Promise not to be a crumudgeon old guy poster. 
2022OFDad posted:I have been reading this thread with great interest. It seems like PG’s biggest single-event revenue generators are the WWBA events at LakePoint. Not sure what kind of deal they had to use that facility for that event and others, but any significant increase in rent for the facility is going to impact PG bottom line, which is why they are in business. Supplementing that with more regional events is a natural move, especially since those events in GA draw very few western US teams. I think if they don’t come to an agreement on a lease deal, you will see different organizations using LP, and whether they are in the 14-18U ages really doesn’t matter to anyone except for the fact that local GA teams usually don’t require hotels, so it impacts the overall economy. I would say, in my opinion, that if PG is using their overall economic impact to essential extort a lease deal that puts the venue into bankruptcy just to enrich themselves, then how can this be a good thing for baseball? Will they use the same strategy with other venues?
The bankruptcy had zero to do with PG. It has to do with not being on schedule with their building, investors pulling out, and a LARGE loophole that made filing easy and logical. It also allowed all of their contract to be renegotiated...like PG's 20 year contract.
I think this boils down to economics. PG wants their own facilities. Much like they wanted their own data, so Gamechanger was out, Diamonkast was in.
Well land hasn’t gotten cheaper over the years, what we’re they waiting for? They would have milked that cow until it was dry. The bankruptcy not something that PG necessarily caused, but it inevitably will cost PG in the short term in their revenue stream, in my opinion, until the other regional events bear fruit. I don’t see PG investing their own capital in a major way for facilities that they will own...I just don’t see that for some reason.
Go44dad posted:“Just to enrich themselves”. Isn’t that capitalism?
Follow PG on twitter. The last couple days you can see their expansion plans for next year. Heavy NE expansion, midwest, FL and AZ. Out to diversify geographically before competition does. Very little change in Texas. Split WWBA to East and west. Added top level “invite only” WWBA to Hoover, AL.
It is what it is. Son is almost through w travel ball. Will look back on these times as good old days. Promise not to be a crumudgeon old guy poster.
Capitalism works best in “win-win” collaborations. One-sided deals don’t play well for longevity.
its funny how PG is viewed as the big dawg on the block, basically due to their dominance in the SE and their HS-centric events. But your remark about PG “diversifying geographically before others do” seems uninformed. PBR has been expanding for the past couple of years and while not the brand PG is, they are hitting markets PG largely ignored. Now PG may come into those markets and immediately take over a majority of market share, but that remains to be seen. What I think many are viewing as a strategic move be fitting PG (leaving LP) may well become an advantage for its competition in that a major venue with huge name recognition is now available. I don’t think TC or others may be able to fill the void in the HS market there, but PBR may, with time. Also, the other organization that isn’t getting enough of a look here is USSSA. They are the market leader up to 14U, seems like if there was ever a time for them to venture into 14-18U, now would be it with the turbulence in the market. PG, in my opinion, just opened Pandora’s box.
2022OFDad posted:Go44dad posted:“Just to enrich themselves”. Isn’t that capitalism?
Follow PG on twitter. The last couple days you can see their expansion plans for next year. Heavy NE expansion, midwest, FL and AZ. Out to diversify geographically before competition does. Very little change in Texas. Split WWBA to East and west. Added top level “invite only” WWBA to Hoover, AL.
It is what it is. Son is almost through w travel ball. Will look back on these times as good old days. Promise not to be a crumudgeon old guy poster.
Capitalism works best in “win-win” collaborations. One-sided deals don’t play well for longevity.
I'm a formulation chemist. My company manufactures things like glass cleaner. A gallon of glass cleaner costs around $0.30 to make. The consumer (YOU) then buys that gallon for $10-$50.
Most deals are one sided, and glass cleaners have been around for a very long time, pretty sure they will be for a long time more too.
CaCO3Girl posted:2022OFDad posted:Go44dad posted:“Just to enrich themselves”. Isn’t that capitalism?
Follow PG on twitter. The last couple days you can see their expansion plans for next year. Heavy NE expansion, midwest, FL and AZ. Out to diversify geographically before competition does. Very little change in Texas. Split WWBA to East and west. Added top level “invite only” WWBA to Hoover, AL.
It is what it is. Son is almost through w travel ball. Will look back on these times as good old days. Promise not to be a crumudgeon old guy poster.
Capitalism works best in “win-win” collaborations. One-sided deals don’t play well for longevity.
I'm a formulation chemist. My company manufactures things like glass cleaner. A gallon of glass cleaner costs around $0.30 to make. The consumer (YOU) then buys that gallon for $10-$50.
Most deals are one sided, and glass cleaners have been around for a very long time, pretty sure they will be for a long time more too.
Glass cleaner (and other like products) are considered consumables from a retail marketing perspective, and people will spend $$$ on consumables. From a consumption perspective, you are dead wrong. People will pay a fair price for a product, within the parameters of “normal” for the product, without caring about the price of manufacturing. The cost of manufacturing the product is not material, because it does not relate to the perception of getting a fair price for the end user. You cannot fairly compare consumable products like glass cleaner, to a service product, anyway.
In your example, in the the view of the consumer, they are getting what they perceive as a fair deal or are at least willing to pay market price, so it is essentially a “win-win” relationship for the manufacturers, middle man (who really is the manufacturer ‘s customer BTW) and the end consumer.
The situation I am describing in my previous post is more of a B2B situation, wherein one business is providing a component necessary for the production (or operation) of another’s product or business. If the purchasing business drives their partners into perilous financial positions because they just aren’t willing to have a mutually beneficial financial relationship, then ties get severed, like we see here. Then it’s just a question of how long before this happens again. Seen it many times in business.
hope you are a great chemist
I am not connected at all to LP or the scene any longer but it feels like LP bet on the come and it never came. All the other sports aside from baseball and other baseball events didn't follow. They would have had more games/parking/concessions had they built out faster with the fields but i guess they didnt have the capital required to do it.
2022OFDad posted:CaCO3Girl posted:2022OFDad posted:Go44dad posted:“Just to enrich themselves”. Isn’t that capitalism?
Follow PG on twitter. The last couple days you can see their expansion plans for next year. Heavy NE expansion, midwest, FL and AZ. Out to diversify geographically before competition does. Very little change in Texas. Split WWBA to East and west. Added top level “invite only” WWBA to Hoover, AL.
It is what it is. Son is almost through w travel ball. Will look back on these times as good old days. Promise not to be a crumudgeon old guy poster.
Capitalism works best in “win-win” collaborations. One-sided deals don’t play well for longevity.
I'm a formulation chemist. My company manufactures things like glass cleaner. A gallon of glass cleaner costs around $0.30 to make. The consumer (YOU) then buys that gallon for $10-$50.
Most deals are one sided, and glass cleaners have been around for a very long time, pretty sure they will be for a long time more too.
Glass cleaner (and other like products) are considered consumables from a retail marketing perspective, and people will spend $$$ on consumables. From a consumption perspective, you are dead wrong. People will pay a fair price for a product, within the parameters of “normal” for the product, without caring about the price of manufacturing. The cost of manufacturing the product is not material, because it does not relate to the perception of getting a fair price for the end user. You cannot fairly compare consumable products like glass cleaner, to a service product, anyway.
In your example, in the the view of the consumer, they are getting what they perceive as a fair deal or are at least willing to pay market price, so it is essentially a “win-win” relationship for the manufacturers, middle man (who really is the manufacturer ‘s customer BTW) and the end consumer.
The situation I am describing in my previous post is more of a B2B situation, wherein one business is providing a component necessary for the production (or operation) of another’s product or business. If the purchasing business drives their partners into perilous financial positions because they just aren’t willing to have a mutually beneficial financial relationship, then ties get severed, like we see here. Then it’s just a question of how long before this happens again. Seen it many times in business.
hope you are a great chemist
And there is the disconnect.
I see PG as a consumable.
And yes, PG was sold a bill of goods and Lakepoint didn't deliver. They had a 20 year contract, PG pulled out rather than ride out the bankruptcy.
I am an excellent chemist, thank you.
Cacogirl, so you understand what I mean then. Because you likely work for a very large manufacturer of chemical products, your company is in a strong negotiating position for its raw materials based on the volume it purchases. If the requested price for a raw material from a supplier is such that it puts that supplier into the poor house, that supplier is going to ask for a fair price or look for other opportunities to sell its product. Lakepoint and PG are similar in that regard, and LP may look for others to purchase what they have to sell at the price they are seeking. PG will have to find a new supplier.
PG is definitely not a consumable, it’s a luxury item.
Is this really any different than what happens everywhere else? Use MLB as an example. Baseball used to sell it's TV rights locally. They got some money. But, the TV channel was making even more. So, baseball teams got smart and started their own TV (RSN) channels and then they got ALL the broadcast and advertising revenue. Baseball was also spending a fortune on, well, baseballs. So, now, they went out and bought Rawlings and will be getting their baseballs at cost now with no mark-up. This is stuff that happens with big companies. And, PG is a big company. If they want to have their own place, keep expenses down, and keep all of the revenue, that's just them trying to be a smart business.
Francis7 posted:And, PG is a big company. If they want to have their own place, keep expenses down, and keep all of the revenue, that's just them trying to be a smart business.
So PG loses it sainthood officially now correct?
2022OFDAD, welcome to forum I think you are going to be a big addition!
2022OFDad posted:...I would say, in my opinion, that if PG is using their overall economic impact to essential extort a lease deal that puts the venue into bankruptcy just to enrich themselves, then how can this be a good thing for baseball?
It seems that what put the venue into bankruptcy is very simple...they mis-forecast projected revenues (by 3x) and were unable to make their debt payments. Why pin that on PG?
K9 posted:2022OFDad posted:...I would say, in my opinion, that if PG is using their overall economic impact to essential extort a lease deal that puts the venue into bankruptcy just to enrich themselves, then how can this be a good thing for baseball?
It seems that what put the venue into bankruptcy is very simple...they mis-forecast projected revenues (by 3x) and were unable to make their debt payments. Why pin that on PG?
Okay, so if you can’t sniff forcasted revenue with PG....what are your chances w/o them?
I have made a few large mistakes over the years, usually being to busy to really dig into the numbers, that being said to miss earning by 3x...yea that is gonna be tough one to overcome! Now what they don't say is how big a percentage of overall revenue that 3x is because it was on adult sections of the budgets I believe. My guess is they are fairly small piece or you would be in meltdown mode instead of restructuring mode.
Bottom line, this one smells of greed, under rolled companies for the size of the project and some people connected to our government who figured they would be close enough to get by with a little extra help from uncle sam if needed.
That wakeboarding lake smelled of being a being loser just looking at it but who knows.
I know that when Lakepoint said they would have 16 fields they only had 4 open. As of right now there are only 8 open. I imagine PG signed on for 16.
If you BUILD IT they will come!
Cant do much if they didn’t build it.
LakePoint doesn't really matter much. It was just a centralized location with 8 fields. That is really all they're losing. The tournament was held at East Cobb facility for how long? PG will be fine, LakePoint on the other hand might not be
PABaseball posted:LakePoint doesn't really matter much. It was just a centralized location with 8 fields. That is really all they're losing. The tournament was held at East Cobb facility for how long? PG will be fine, LakePoint on the other hand might not be
Agree. Any chance east Cobb facility can be used by PG again? The year son played WWBA, his team had games at LP and EC.
The more I look at the numbers, I don’t see how the baseball operation was not profitable. Maybe it just wasn’t profitable enough to cover the whole development.
Again if PG can’t make the numbers work at the fees that they charge, then I don’t think anyone else will either.
Lakepoint is the big loser in the deal, but I think it hurts PG as well but not nearly as much.
Maybe, they wait it out and get a real sweet deal next year.
The spokes person for PG on the other GA forum said they were going to use east cobb as well as other HS fields around metro atlanta area.
What I find hard to believe is that there are going to be quality tournaments going on this summer at parks like east cobb etc and lake point is going to be empty.
$tinky posted:The spokes person for PG on the other GA forum said they were going to use east cobb as well as other HS fields around metro atlanta area.
What I find hard to believe is that there are going to be quality tournaments going on this summer at parks like east cobb etc and lake point is going to be empty.
Why is that hard to believe? EC was very nice btw. Maybe summer WWBAs will have fewer, more elite teams? Teams used to have to apply to be in the 16/17u events. Not sure about other age groups or what the process currently is. To maintain credibility with college coaches, PG will have to find a way to keep things convenient for them. And they (PG) will do it. I would think the coaches might be their top priority customer, without them, PG is no longer PG.
2019 schedule has a WWBA Elite tournament in Hoover Alabama. 32 teams invite only. WWBA has been “split” to East and West with the west in Arizona.
RoadRunner posted:$tinky posted:The spokes person for PG on the other GA forum said they were going to use east cobb as well as other HS fields around metro atlanta area.
What I find hard to believe is that there are going to be quality tournaments going on this summer at parks like east cobb etc and lake point is going to be empty.
Why is that hard to believe? EC was very nice btw. Maybe summer WWBAs will have fewer, more elite teams? Teams used to have to apply to be in the 16/17u events. Not sure about other age groups or what the process currently is. To maintain credibility with college coaches, PG will have to find a way to keep things convenient for them. And they (PG) will do it. I would think the coaches might be their top priority customer, without them, PG is no longer PG.
Its hard to believe because that is by far the most elite park in the southeast. I can't see it just being unoccupied all summer. Also if they are trying to please college coaches, how can it get any better than 8 games all in one location?
$tinky posted:RoadRunner posted:Why is that hard to believe? EC was very nice btw. Maybe summer WWBAs will have fewer, more elite teams? Teams used to have to apply to be in the 16/17u events. Not sure about other age groups or what the process currently is. To maintain credibility with college coaches, PG will have to find a way to keep things convenient for them. And they (PG) will do it. I would think the coaches might be their top priority customer, without them, PG is no longer PG.
Its hard to believe because that is by far the most elite park in the southeast. I can't see it just being unoccupied all summer. Also if they are trying to please college coaches, how can it get any better than 8 games all in one location?
I believe East Cobb has 6 fields. That is where it was always held until LakePoint. Either way, nobody was going for LP, it was just more convenient for college coaches and helped PG look more official as a brand
PG underwent some pretty drastic changes basically overnight. Their 2019 schedule is loaded with events. Too many to keep track of. WWBA East, West, Northeast, Qualifiers, etc.
Having just wrapped up with 2019s travel ball, we'll probably take this summer off from PG events for the 2022 and see which events are worth it. Come back the following summer knowing which events to hit so we're not wasting money. Curious to see how it all plays out. In the past it was always get in contact with the schools you're interested in and have them watch you play at WWBA in GA. I'm not sure how much that method will work moving forward, if it all.
CaCO3Girl posted:2022OFDad posted:Go44dad posted:“Just to enrich themselves”. Isn’t that capitalism?
Follow PG on twitter. The last couple days you can see their expansion plans for next year. Heavy NE expansion, midwest, FL and AZ. Out to diversify geographically before competition does. Very little change in Texas. Split WWBA to East and west. Added top level “invite only” WWBA to Hoover, AL.
It is what it is. Son is almost through w travel ball. Will look back on these times as good old days. Promise not to be a crumudgeon old guy poster.
Capitalism works best in “win-win” collaborations. One-sided deals don’t play well for longevity.
I'm a formulation chemist. My company manufactures things like glass cleaner. A gallon of glass cleaner costs around $0.30 to make. The consumer (YOU) then buys that gallon for $10-$50.
Most deals are one sided, and glass cleaners have been around for a very long time, pretty sure they will be for a long time more too.
The price of a product isn’t based on what it cost to manufacture. The price is based on what the market will bear. But in the big picture it cost your company a lot more than 0.30. There’s the R&D costs that need to be recouped. There’s the ongoing costs relating to regulation when you’re dealing with chemicals. There are other variables built into cost.
I used to be part owner of a software company. One potential buyer told me he wasn’t paying any more than the cost of the media device used to transport given “all we had to do” was copy software on to it.
It made for a good Christmas party laugh.
$tinky posted:RoadRunner posted:$tinky posted:The spokes person for PG on the other GA forum said they were going to use east cobb as well as other HS fields around metro atlanta area.
What I find hard to believe is that there are going to be quality tournaments going on this summer at parks like east cobb etc and lake point is going to be empty.
Why is that hard to believe? EC was very nice btw. Maybe summer WWBAs will have fewer, more elite teams? Teams used to have to apply to be in the 16/17u events. Not sure about other age groups or what the process currently is. To maintain credibility with college coaches, PG will have to find a way to keep things convenient for them. And they (PG) will do it. I would think the coaches might be their top priority customer, without them, PG is no longer PG.
Its hard to believe because that is by far the most elite park in the southeast. I can't see it just being unoccupied all summer. Also if they are trying to please college coaches, how can it get any better than 8 games all in one location?
Without sounding like a “baseball snob” I will say this. Players can be elite. Facilities ehh, not so much. LP is very nice. It may or may not be empty. PG will find a way to serve their customers with or without LP. EC has multiple fields also. Can’t remember how many. But really, that is far less important than the quality of the players occupying the fields, based on our experience.
The facilities at Lakepoint helped PG charge a premium entry fee. That fee was charged at all fields not just Lakepoint. We didn’t mind paying the $10 entry at Lakepoint but didn’t like paying it at the local HS fields.
At $2-3 per head premium for 100-200 teams with 20 players (40 parents) per team per day adds up.
I think east Cobb has 3 high school size fields, and the facilities were pretty deteriorated the last time I was there. If they are going to continue to charge $10 then I hope the high schools demand a better deal to help thier programs and East Cobb gets a facelift
At the end of the day, it’s supposed to be about baseball and scouting. But in reality, most are just paying for the experience.
It was confirmed on the youth GA board that Triple Crown is dead in GA. That leaves PG being the only game in town here (14u+) since USSSA drops off after 12u.
Go44dad posted:2019 schedule has a WWBA Elite tournament in Hoover Alabama. 32 teams invite only. WWBA has been “split” to East and West with the west in Arizona.
The three biggest events next summer are still based at LakePoint; business as usual for next summer.
WWBA 2020 Grads or 17U National Championship
WWBA 2021 Grads or 16U National Championship
WWBA 2022 Grads or 15U National Championship
After that, who knows?
My son went to the WWBA at 14U and 17U, Lakepoint wasn't built the first time. We played at some spectacular HS fields...especially compared to here in Ohio....most of them were as good or better than some of the college fields he's been on. 17U they played a couple at Lakepoint...then he played there again his freshman year of college. He'd much rather play on grass with a dirt mound. As a pitcher he hates turf.....hard hit ground balls that would have been stopped by the OF end up skipping thru to the fence for doubles (or worse). He also fields his position very well (former HS SS). He's much rather be fielding bunts on grass than turf. I get it they need turf to play 100's of game each summer, but I think any player will tell you they'd much rather play on grass with a real mound
Buckeye 2015 posted:My son went to the WWBA at 14U and 17U, Lakepoint wasn't built the first time. We played at some spectacular HS fields...especially compared to here in Ohio....most of them were as good or better than some of the college fields he's been on. 17U they played a couple at Lakepoint...then he played there again his freshman year of college. He'd much rather play on grass with a dirt mound. As a pitcher he hates turf.....hard hit ground balls that would have been stopped by the OF end up skipping thru to the fence for doubles (or worse). He also fields his position very well (former HS SS). He's much rather be fielding bunts on grass than turf. I get it they need turf to play 100's of game each summer, but I think any player will tell you they'd much rather play on grass with a real mound
My son played at Lakepoint twice this past summer, once in a showcase and once in a tournament, and the pitching mounds were horrible. Most of the mounds, if not all, had significant depressions or "holes" on the down-slope where the stride foot lands. Of course, the mounds being artificial, there was no way for the pitchers to fix this. One friend of my son had to alter his delivery so much - he had to "short-stride" - that his velocity dropped from consistently low 80s to mid 70s. I was surprised that these artificial mounds were not (could not?) be built to maintain their shape.
RoadRunner posted:PABaseball posted:LakePoint doesn't really matter much. It was just a centralized location with 8 fields. That is really all they're losing. The tournament was held at East Cobb facility for how long? PG will be fine, LakePoint on the other hand might not be
Agree. Any chance east Cobb facility can be used by PG again? The year son played WWBA, his team had games at LP and EC.
I'll say it, East Cobb is a shit show when it comes to scoreboards. You will miss the boards at LP when there unless they have upgraded and actually keep them running. The old excuse was"lightning" i think they were just lazy.
Agreed, ECB is mostly miss, rather than hit, when it comes to scoreboards. On the bright side, everyone just takes out their phones and watches along with diamondKast to see the velo anyway.
I guess it’s all relative, but parking is not abundant at EC either. I like the backdrops in the OF though, more scenic than LP. I would think if PG is going to be using EC on a regular basis it would request facility improvements, and EC should only do that if PG is paying a fair price