Separation Separated The High Level Swing From The Imposters

It is absolutely childish....elementary...unbelievable that fofofo doesn't know the difference in the position each of these hitters is in.

Then again....it's fofofo.

Also notice that he ignores this...



Your leader says there is no separation in the swing.

lol.

You have my pics.. You are comparing stills.
Tell me how to post pics if you wont post mine..

quote:

Originally posted by Loose Cannon:


It is absolutely childish....elementary...unbelievable that fofofo doesn't know the difference in the position each of these hitters is in.

Then again....it's fofofo.

Both players....MlB pattern...It's right there and I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Loose Cannon:
Also notice that he ignores this...



Your leader says there is no separation in the swing.

lol.

Nah.

quote:

Originally posted by 4for4:


Both players....MlB pattern...It's right there and I agree.

Hahahahahah. That's a good one.



They couldn't be more different. It's obvious to anyone interested in the truth.

One rotates then shifts weight at "go". The other shifts weight then rotates at "go". Problem is....he has too far to go and not enough time to get there......and by default will drag the bat.

One creates momentum with rotation. The other creates momentum with weight shift.

No.....both these guys aren't in the high level pattern. I guess you're going to say the amateur is.

lol

Remember the hype about the lead knee flare?

Yeah......I bought it also. Briefly. But, then I started swinging a bat. Yeah....taking real at bats too.

Funny what you can learn when you do that. It's the sure way to test the theories.

Does anyone in your camp take live at bats? lol

Has any adult.....has any theorist taken a live at bat since they came up with their theory?

Just asking.

What.....this guys is flaring the knee also.



So is this guy...



Don't tell me....this guy too?



And that dreaded side view...

quote:

Originally posted by Loose Cannon:

quote:

Originally posted by 4for4:


Both players....MlB pattern...It's right there and I agree.

Hahahahahah. That's a good one.



They couldn't be more different. It's obvious to anyone interested in the truth.

Remember the hype about the lead knee flare.

Yeah......I bought it also. Briefly. But, then I started swinging a bat. Yeah....taking real at bats too.

Funny what you can learn when you do that. It's the sure way to test the the theories.

Does anyone in your camp take live at bats? lol

Another circular argument.

Lamber quotes:

I don't believe there is any such thing as THT. If you're referring to the very early blur of the bat as evidence of THT, I disagree.

Watch his wrist and their angle to the forearm. I see no significant change.

IMO that blur is coming due to shoulder rotation as the bat and arms are very well connected.

B25,

If I were you I wouldn't clean up the quote either.

It's hard to tell what I said and what you're saying.

Confusion.....Diversion.

Standard Operating Procedure

quote:

Originally posted by 4for4:



Another circular argument.

It sure is.

That video is running circles around you.

In light of that video....will you please reaffirm that you believe both of those hitters are doing the same thing.

I really think you should either confirm or deny it.

The truth seekers need to understand your position.

quote:

How many posts of that video of Bonds did you make suggesting it was exactly the perfect replica of that philosophy I believe in?

300? PERHAPS 500?

Refuter

B25

I was going to quote you.......but I can't find any.

What's up with that? lol

P.S. Please provide links to the quotes you claim are mine please. It will make you look more honest.

Have the last three pages of this thread accomplished anything?

Loose Cannon says this...

4for4 says "strawman" over and over and over again...

Loose Cannon says, "this is the way it is done," then provides his video evidence that he feels illustrates his point...with an insult and/or childish remark added...

4for4 says, "no, you are wrong, this is the way it is done," then provides his video evidence that he feels illustrates his point...with an insult/and or childish remark added...

Then Loose Cannon says 4for4 is wrong again, and vise versa...

Then it starts all over again.

I don't want to get involved in the pi**ing match, I just want this to move forward.

I'm all for spirited debate, (which is what makes this site so addicting) but shouldn't there be a larger degree of maturity here?

Everyone has opinions. Can we respect that fact and move on?

Don't taze me bro...don't taze me.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
CoachB25, just my opinion, but, at baseball fever you got that guy Jake screwing the whole thing up..............He does not look for the truth.........He will ban anyone who proves his hitting beliefs to be wrong....

He keeps it very one-sided over there............

jake does a great job over there I'm sorry,,but if you read the posts youll notice theres a lot more seperation guys there than pcr..jake keeps a nice forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Loose Cannon:
As to this one...



...why does he choose a front view? When the side view tells the real story.



No shoulder rotation can make the barrel blur rearward at go. Only the hands through forearm rotation can do that.

hard to dispute that.

And this...

The clips clearly show the difference to me. I don't know why it's hard for everyone else to see it.

If you create separation you only leave it to the hands to commit.

If you don't create separation and only use weight shift to front heel plant, the hips haven't opened yet causing the hands to lunge. The hands want to commit, but the swing has broken down because the hips are "in the way".

2 cyber pages of egotistical garbage.

I hope you gurus can do better than this.

A waste of bits and bytes.

IMO.

2 out of 5 is an improvement.

quote:

jake does a great job over there I'm sorry,,but if you read the posts youll notice theres a lot more seperation guys there than pcr..jake keeps a nice forum.

Cannon, any idea why someone would say this?

I have no idea.

Jake's bias is very strong. But, you have to follow his actions not his word.

I suppose woggy hasn't made a post that has been censored yet.

Hint:

The hittting forum is at its best when you put up the good stuff.

And it is at its worst when you use it as a cyber WWF wrestling match.

Put up the good stuff - and leave the cyber soap opera garbage somewhere else.

HINT:

You still don't see what happens.

Yeah - OK - just post what you know.

And leave the cyber "Days of our Lives" stuff out of it.

quote:

Yeah - OK - just post what you know.

If he did that, the whole board would shut down with all of his info....

There is no box...no box maintained...but there is a triangle......

A triangle that is rotated.....about the hands.....as the forearms pronate/supinate and the shoulders laterally tilt at "go".

The triangle starts in a horizontal plane and ends up in a vertical plane.

You can't do that with shoulder rotation and a box and maintaining a box and pulling by the knob.

THE AXIS OF ROTATION OF THE BARREL IS THE HANDS.....NOT THE SPINE.



It IS in the video.........of the best players.

Are you learning Jake? Are you finally learning?

BTW.....for all you CHP guys.....this clip of Bonds shows a linear hand path.....not circular.

It's as linear as it can be considering the hips are rotating.

He is NOT trying to create a circular path. In fact, he's trying, but failing because the hips action will dominate, to keep the hands in front of the ball...in the hit zone....AS THE HANDS/FOREARMS/LATERAL SHOULDER TILT, TURNS THE BARREL.



Notice how the hands fight the "pull" of rotation and stay "out over the plate" and into extension....while they turn the barrel....without taking the hard right turn that a circular hand path would have....until late in the swing after the barrel has been launch and when the hips dominate.

If the hand path was circular, and if the power came from shoulder rotation, the hands would take an immediate right turn for a lefty. They don't. They go to the ball linarly until the barrel is released and the hip rotation dominates.

Here is a great view of the same thing.



That is a staight to the ball hand path, as the hands turn the barrel by forearm rotation, that is bent by hip rotation.

All possible by understanding the diagonal swing plane which can not be "around the shoulders".

Guillen's barrel's axis of rotation is the hands....not the shoulders....and that is why he can drive this pitch. If he didn't turn the barrel in the hands his bat would drag and probably "flare" this pitch.

BTW...which way does that barrel go at launch? It is critcial. Only the hands/forearms can do that.

Some posts in this thread have been removed due to a copyright violation.

quote:

quote:
Yeah - OK - just post what you know.

If he did that, the whole board would shut down with all of his info....

Just keep listening..........If you do, it will be to your advantage.........

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Some posts in this thread have been removed due to a copyright violation.

Now that is funny.

The shoulders turn some 'cause they have to since they're hooked to the hands and arms.........

The shoulders are a linkage and should not, in any way, power the swing........

If you have a circular handpath, your shoulders are powering your swing..........You are swinging around your body......You will have no late swing adjustablilty and you will pull off of outer half pitches.......And, your swing will be slow......No early batspeed......

This is what the shoulder rotation guys see. And, this is also what they misinterpret.



Doesn't it 'look' like the shoulders are rotating?

Doesn't it 'look' like the spine is the axis of the barrel's rotation?

Doesn't it 'look' like the barrel "flys off the merry go round"?

But.......those last three frames.......hmmmmm......he's doing something "other than" what it looks like.

Those last three frames are the end of......that's right.....the end of "triangle rotation". See the lead elbow "jut"? See the rear elbow working under? See the hands 'staying out over the plate somewhat' instead of being pulled across the body by the lead arms pull from shoulder rotation?

Now that you can see that.....let's work back to the beginning of the clip. If in fact the lead elbow "juts" in the last frames...which btw means it pronated....do you really believe it started there....or did it start upstream. Well....look at the barrel's path in the beginning of the clip. Is it really being pulled by the lead arm? Is it's path "mostly horizontal"? Or....is it dropping high to low. By God.....that barrel is dropping.....there are several frames of it going from high to low.....not around......in fact it's direction is not in line with the shoulders....in fact, it's direction is mostly vertical........well....that is the direction of the spine.....the axis.....mostly vertical.....how can the axis of rotation be the same direction as the barrel's movement?

Now, add this.....notice as the barrel takes that vertical drop it is blurring. Would just loosening the hands, allowing it to drop, make it blur? Would shoulder rotation around the spine make it blur? Wrong direction.

Nope....

The only reasonable conclusion is the barrel is turned by the forearms at "go". The triangle is rotated as the shoulders laterally tilt. The pronation/supination of the forearms creates that lead elbow "jut" which "keeps the hands from pulling off".....it keeps the hands from "following the shoulders".

The old bypass.....that they can't admit to. Because they are deep into one concept that hangs everything they attempt.

They believe that hip turn is THE ONLY engine. They believe the energy that the hips create passes up the chain and that no other energy is created.

Therefore, they constantly struggle with bat drag.

Because.....they allow disconnection at the wrist. They don't use the weight of the barrel, by sending it rearward with forearm rotation to actively engage the wrists/hands/forearms as the Second Engine.

Hmmmmm.

Loose Cannon can you post clips of MLB hitters using an inferior swing compared to one of a "second engine" swing?

I'd like to see a Kevin Millar swing discussed. lol

Notice the attempt to keep the lead elbow up prior to launch. He's trying to keep it perp to the spine and swing with shoulder rotation. And adjust with posture.

Notice the lead shoulder pull out instead of laterally tilt upward at 'go'. The dreaded PCR pull off.

Not possible. Too slow. Watch the bat drag. Inherent in PCR.

Pitcher throws him a hanger and he can't do anything but drag the bat to the ball.

Compare his barrel path to Guillen.....in frame one....at "go". Guillen's goes rearward. Kouz' does not. Guillen is turning the barrel. Kouz is pulling the knob.



Notice how Kouz's lead elbow starts up and never "juts" which greatly affects the hand path. You can't start with the lead elbow up AND pronate the forearm. It will send the barrel on too steep of an upward path.

Here is a "jutting" lead elbow, caused by pronation of the lead forearm, which keeps the hands from being pulled out of the hitzone.



Lead arm pronation, triangle rotation and lateral shoulder tilt create this jut......which creates the diagonal swing plane.

Don't have any Millar.

I've never really watched videos of him. Just thinking of watching game swings.

With my new found appreciation of hitting (I'm not ready to call it knowledge yet ), my guess would be lousy use of lower body,...but his hands are so quick he must be doing somenthing real right with the upper body. Can't wait to see him hit again just for the chuckle.

Courtesy of Pronk....if I'm not mistaken. This clip remains one of the all time great educational clips.

You can really see the separation occuring, how early it starts, and how he does it.

I bet you didn't know Bonds stepped in the bucket. Yep...almost every swing. Here's a page full of him showing his slight bucket step to get those hips cleared.

More Bonds