Standard Camp Invite or Genuine Interest

If it is from an assistant I would say legit, if it is from the Director of Baseball Operations, probably not worth it.  

baseballhs posted:

If it is from an assistant I would say legit, if it is from the Director of Baseball Operations, probably not worth it.  

Thanks.

He’s a volunteer assistant that was recently hired on. I know volunteer assistants depend on camp money for income but I thought it was interesting that he had been a recruiting coordinator at his last school. I guess this new opportunity was good enough to make the move. That would also put pressure to get more camp revenue, I guess. Anyway, I’m getting off topic.

So, I know my son can ask questions about the camp but I’m trying to determine if we glean more information about any possible intetest to help decide whether to attend since my son is still a 2021. The new rule adds a wrinkle to the “so have you seen me play anywhere” question that is recommended in several camp invite threads.

Even with the new rules some of the same questions are still valid:

1. Is it a school I am interested in? (size, location, has my major, Etc...)
2. Do I have a realistic chance at succeeding academically at that school? Do I have the academic background and grades to be successful.
3. Is it a school I would be interested in if it were not for baseball? 
4. How high is the school on my list? 
5. What is the cost, and can I afford the total cost of traveling to the camp. (Bang for your buck)
6. Athletically how do I match up with the players they actively recruit. Is most of the team Are over 6 ft, and mash, and I project out to be a 5'11" grinder with speed? You must be brutally honest when determining if you can play at a school.

Same apply no matter when recruiting starts. However, student Athletes need to project earlier where they will be as a senior. 

I would ask questions. I’m probably cynical due to our experience which may not be everyone’s.  Last summer my son got a DM from a school (director of baseball operations) about a camp and it was a school he could have attended I think and it was logistically a good fit. We rearranged things to make it work and when we got there, they had no idea he was there and didn’t talk to him at all. Son had sent aDM back that he would attend. The camp ended, we came home and sent an email with stats and video and the HC called our club coach within an hour saying they were really interested and was my son interested in them.  They still had no idea that he had been there for 5 hours that day (and did well with no one watching).  I would try to call the coach, see if he answers, or dm back asking questions and including key stats to see if you get a real response or a generic reply.  That said, if it’s a school he really likes, it can’t hurt to attend but I would email the RC ahead of time.

baseballhs posted:

I would ask questions. I’m probably cynical due to our experience which may not be everyone’s.  Last summer my son got a DMfrom a school about a camp and it was a school he could have attended I think and it was logistically a good fit. We rearranged things to make it work and when we got there, they had no idea he was there and didn’t talk to him at all. Son had sent aDM back that he would attend. The camp ended, we came home and sent an email with stats and video and the HC called our club coach within an hour saying they were really interested and was my so interested in them.  They still had no idea that he had been there for 5 hours that day (and did well with no one watching).  I would try to call the coach, see if he answers, or dm back asking questions and including key stats to see if you get a real response or a generic reply.  That said, if it’s a school he really likes, it can’t hurt to attend but I would email the RC ahead of time.

Thanks!

Does your son know the coach? Have they spoken before prior to this invite or did the DM arrive out of the blue? If so I would say it's a generic invitation.

My son dealt with many of these with polite responses stating he is interested would like to attend but travel may be a problem and see what kid of response he got. Sometimes they disappeared, sometimes it initiates a legitimate dialog with a coach.

Best case it would get the coaches attention prior to the camp so they know to look for his like baseballhs  mentioned.

BishopLeftiesDad posted:

Even with the new rules some of the same questions are still valid:

1. Is it a school I am interested in? (size, location, has my major, Etc...)
2. Do I have a realistic chance at succeeding academically at that school? Do I have the academic background and grades to be successful.
3. Is it a school I would be interested in if it were not for baseball? 
4. How high is the school on my list? 
5. What is the cost, and can I afford the total cost of traveling to the camp. (Bang for your buck)
6. Athletically how do I match up with the players they actively recruit. Is most of the team Are over 6 ft, and mash, and I project out to be a 5'11" grinder with speed? You must be brutally honest when determining if you can play at a school.

Same apply no matter when recruiting starts. However, student Athletes need to project earlier where they will be as a senior. 

I think this is a good list to vet camp invites.  One point I would add is this - has the coach seen your son play and has there been some interest expressed?  I'd guess the answer is no.  I would not waste time on a school camp unless there is specific interest in your son, or it is the 11th hour (for a '21 it is not).  Otherwise you are more than likely wasting time and money - JMO.

Smitty28 posted:

I would not waste time on a school camp unless there is specific interest in your son, or it is the 11th hour (for a '21 it is not).  Otherwise you are more than likely wasting time and money - JMO.

I would say the one exception to this is if the camp hosts multiple schools/coaches, AND your player has communicated with coaches beforehand AND they are looking for him. For example BC and Northeastern each host annual winter camps and have multiple coaches from local schools in attendance. Cost was not too crazy, and my son was able to get good dialogs going with several coaches this way.

Boston College Spring Training Prospect Clinic http://collegebaseballcamps.com/bceagles/

CmassRHPDad posted:

Smitty28 posted:

I would not waste time on a school camp unless there is specific interest in your son, or it is the 11th hour (for a '21 it is not).  Otherwise you are more than likely wasting time and money - JMO.

I would say the one exception to this is if the camp hosts multiple schools/coaches, AND your player has communicated with coaches beforehand AND they are looking for him. For example BC and Northeastern each host annual winter camps and have multiple coaches from local schools in attendance. Cost was not too crazy, and my son was able to get good dialogs going with several coaches this way.

Boston College Spring Training Prospect Clinic http://collegebaseballcamps.com/bceagles/

 

I think there are a lot of exceptions to this, but I know most people here do not like camps.  If you are not on a power team (and everyone will say it is a mistake not to be), then it is a good way to be seen by target schools.  My son did not want to leave his friends.  They don't go to his school and were his best friends who he had played with since 8 years old.  Our route for recruiting included showcases and camps.  My son went to two SEC camps with no prior dialogue and had weekly conversations after camps.  If your kid isn't on a high profile team, he isn't going to be seen by some of the top programs especially those not in your region.  Camps can work.  In hindsight, I would say, contact them with video and stats before you go, but don't rule them out completely if your son hasn't gotten a personal invite.  I also know in hindsight that the Director of baseball operations isn't usually a personal invite

baseballhs posted:

CmassRHPDad posted:

Smitty28 posted:

I would not waste time on a school camp unless there is specific interest in your son, or it is the 11th hour (for a '21 it is not).  Otherwise you are more than likely wasting time and money - JMO.

I would say the one exception to this is if the camp hosts multiple schools/coaches, AND your player has communicated with coaches beforehand AND they are looking for him. For example BC and Northeastern each host annual winter camps and have multiple coaches from local schools in attendance. Cost was not too crazy, and my son was able to get good dialogs going with several coaches this way.

Boston College Spring Training Prospect Clinic http://collegebaseballcamps.com/bceagles/

 

I think there are a lot of exceptions to this, but I know most people here do not like camps.  If you are not on a power team (and everyone will say it is a mistake not to be), then it is a good way to be seen by target schools.  My son did not want to leave his friends.  They don't go to his school and were his best friends who he had played with since 8 years old.  Our route for recruiting included showcases and camps.  My son went to two SEC camps with no prior dialogue and had weekly conversations after camps.  If your kid isn't on a high profile team, he isn't going to be seen by some of the top programs especially those not in your region.  Camps can work.  In hindsight, I would say, contact them with video and stats before you go, but don't rule them out completely if your son hasn't gotten a personal invite.  I also know in hindsight that the Director of baseball operations isn't usually a personal invite

 

I cant speak for everyone, but I don't think folks universally dismiss camps.  They can be a useful tool.  IMO most folks get that impression off this board, but the usual take on camps is they can be good, but don't "cold call" the camps and expect to have the phone ringing off the hook by the time you leave.  Most camps are used to make money for the ACs.  Secondarily they are used to vet players.  If a player has had previous contact with the school, the school has interest in seeing the player perform and knows the student will be at the camp, then the camp can be a useful recruiting tool.  

If you just expect to show up at a camp without previous contact and interest from the school and be offered right there on the spot, know its not going to happen.

baseballhs posted:

 If you are not on a power team (and everyone will say it is a mistake not to be)

I'm not sure abt this after having been through it. My son played for a power team his 16U summer as a rising Junior. Yes he attended lots of big events and got to play against some great competition, but he was a Pitcher-Only on a roster of abt 28 kids and he was buried in the bullpen. He saw few innings and the games he pitched did not get much visibility.

Once we found him a pitching coach who he really connected with and he started seeing gains in his development, my son felt a loyalty to this guy and he chose to play for his program. He had also had enough connections and reached out many times on my boy's behalf. This in my experience ended up being more valuable than going the power team route.

CmassRHPDad posted:

baseballhs posted:

 If you are not on a power team (and everyone will say it is a mistake not to be)

I'm not sure abt this after having been through it. My son played for a power team his 16U summer as a rising Junior. Yes he attended lots of big events and got to play against some great competition, but he was a Pitcher-Only on a roster of abt 28 kids and he was buried in the bullpen. He saw few innings and the games he pitched did not get much visibility.

Once we found him a pitching coach who he really connected with and he started seeing gains in his development, my son felt a loyalty to this guy and he chose to play for his program. He had also had enough connections and reached out many times on my boy's behalf. This in my experience ended up being more valuable than going the power team route.

We did fine too and our 16U team may not have even won 50% of our games.  If you make your recruiting plan around it, you can end up as good or better I think.  I spoke to one dad  last summer whose son (16U) didn't even play for a summer team. He worked out during the week and did invitational events and showcases and he had a lot of P5 offers. He committed last month to a strong program.

Everyone's path is different! We see that repeated here over and over!

My son only did camps, didn't go to any big showcase or play for a power team, yet he received multiple D1 offers.  In hindsight, maybe he would have had even more offers if we did, but he was offered to his first choice and I don't think he would have chosen differently.

I agree everyone's path is different, therefore, maybe do a mix of all.  I also agree not to go to camps blind.  Communicate beforehand so coaches know who you are and are watching you.

Camps were useful for my 2017 position player.  He did not end up at any of the schools where he attended, however. The 1st camp attended had 3 different levels of coaching present. He did contact the host school 1st, as he did with all others. He asked specific questions about the camp and gave specific information about himself. After each camp he attended, the schools did show various levels of interest. The most useful part of attending camps for him was that it helped him to determine which level of baseball (D1,2,3)  he would fit. The 1st camp he attended, a former CWS winner, was invaluable in determining where he fit in. The HC spoke with him, one on one about this.  And that’s when we realized where he fit in. We will always be thankful for that experience. 

We did not randomly respond to mass email camp invites tho. He only went to camps with a specific purpose, not because he received an email invite to the camp. 

baseballhs posted:

I would ask questions. I’m probably cynical due to our experience which may not be everyone’s.  Last summer my son got a DM from a school (director of baseball operations) about a camp and it was a school he could have attended I think and it was logistically a good fit. We rearranged things to make it work and when we got there, they had no idea he was there and didn’t talk to him at all. Son had sent aDM back that he would attend. The camp ended, we came home and sent an email with stats and video and the HC called our club coach within an hour saying they were really interested and was my son interested in them.  They still had no idea that he had been there for 5 hours that day (and did well with no one watching).  I would try to call the coach, see if he answers, or dm back asking questions and including key stats to see if you get a real response or a generic reply.  That said, if it’s a school he really likes, it can’t hurt to attend but I would email the RC ahead of time.

I could have written this exact same email. Wonder if it's the same "coach"? The one in my son's case has been with 4 different schools since and he emailed him from each one, despite ignoring him when he saw him in person!

Utimately it was a camp that got my son his offer, but it was a very specific circumstance where the coach had seen him at the PBR Futures games the week before and called him on the way home saying "you're still coming to the camp, right?"

What folks need to understand is that these camps/showcases etc are businesses first and foremost. They are there to generate revenue whether the money goes to a private enterprise (like PG), or a college baseball program. They want to fill the camp, period. They will do it any way they can. They do not care to what degree the player/family would have to go to get there. They will send emails like the one below my son got this week, he hasn't even played in a PG event this year, only been to 1 PG showcase 2 years ago. He's on a mailing list...so are your kids. BishopleftiesDad nailed it above.

GaryMe posted:

What folks need to understand is that these camps/showcases etc are businesses first and foremost. They are there to generate revenue whether the money goes to a private enterprise (like PG), or a college baseball program. They want to fill the camp, period. They will do it any way they can. They do not care to what degree the player/family would have to go to get there. They will send emails like the one below my son got this week, he hasn't even played in a PG event this year, only been to 1 PG showcase 2 years ago. He's on a mailing list...so are your kids. BishopleftiesDad nailed it above.

 

Let’s not hijack the thread and turn it into another beat up on PG/Jerry Ford thread, please. 

I'm not...the point is these camps and showcases need to be seen for what they are, a revenue stream. I also agreed with what bishopleftiesdad said earlier in the post...so apparently you only have a problem with me pointing out that PG is telling my son he's had a great year when in fact they haven't seen him. So being disingenuous and deceitful in their advertising is ok with you...that's fine.

This has been hashed and rehashed. They didn’t work for you, they did work for us.  Everyone’s experience is different.

The point of the OP is legitimacy of the invitation. My point is buyer beware.

If your son plays summer and fall travel ball (like my kid), then I assume that  there are only a couple of open weekends.  This fall was pretty typical:  two weekends with no tournament scheduled in September and October (reduced to one weekend after a rainout and a make-up event).  It turned out there were no camps of interest on that one weekend.  

I don't think son's coach would get bent out of shape if he skipped a typical weekend tournament to go to a camp at a school that was actively recruiting him, but I don't think son would want to do that more than once in a season. (I'm not aware of other players on the team doing it.  Could be I just didn't know why they were gone on a particular weekend.)  My son has gotten some notice from college coaches who saw him at tournaments.  Otherwise his in-person contacts were at Headfirst--after the summer season had ended--and he may do a similar multi-school showcase after the fall season ends.

I've been involved in a few threads here on camps... but I still feel like I'm missing something, because I don't really get how camps could be a major element of recruiting.    Timing, targeting and cost all seem to weigh against them.  If XYZ University is recruiting your kid, is nearby and their camp happens to be on a weekend when your son hasn't already committed to play with his travel team--then sure, why not?  But mostly the camp invites don't seem like useful recruiting tools to me.

Chico Escuela posted:

If your son plays summer and fall travel ball (like my kid), then I assume that  there are only a couple of open weekends.  This fall was pretty typical:  two weekends with no tournament scheduled in September and October (reduced to one weekend after a rainout and a make-up event).  It turned out there were no camps of interest on that one weekend.  

I don't think son's coach would get bent out of shape if he skipped a typical weekend tournament to go to a camp at a school that was actively recruiting him, but I don't think son would want to do that more than once in a season. (I'm not aware of other players on the team doing it.  Could be I just didn't know why they were gone on a particular weekend.)  My son has gotten some notice from college coaches who saw him at tournaments.  Otherwise his in-person contacts were at Headfirst--after the summer season had ended--and he may do a similar multi-school showcase after the fall season ends.

I've been involved in a few threads here on camps... but I still feel like I'm missing something, because I don't really get how camps could be a major element of recruiting.    Timing, targeting and cost all seem to weigh against them.  If XYZ University is recruiting your kid, is nearby and their camp happens to be on a weekend when your son hasn't already committed to play with his travel team--then sure, why not?  But mostly the camp invites don't seem like useful recruiting tools to me.

 

Meant to add (before I posted what admittedly was off-topic from the OP):  I think a Twitter DM indicates some level of interest greater than an email.  Email addresses get bought and sold in bulk, and camp invites get blast mailed to those lists.  I haven't heard of someone doing anything similar with lists of Twitter handles.  So yes, I think a DM suggests someone is actually aware of your son.  But IMO, it's not enough to go to a camp without some other indications of interest.  I'd at least have your son email and maybe send a return DM to try to learn more.  You also could ask his coach to contact the school.  (But if it's a school your son is interested in, travel and cost aren't an issue, and your son goes into it with the expectation that it's mainly about getting some experience rather than cementing an offer, then if the kid wants to, he should go.)

Chico Escuela posted:

 

I've been involved in a few threads here on camps... but I still feel like I'm missing something, because I don't really get how camps could be a major element of recruiting.    Timing, targeting and cost all seem to weigh against them.  If XYZ University is recruiting your kid, is nearby and their camp happens to be on a weekend when your son hasn't already committed to play with his travel team--then sure, why not?  But mostly the camp invites don't seem like useful recruiting tools to me.

 

Coaches recognize that players have pretty crowded schedules, which is one of the reasons that you see so many camps scheduled in the late fall and over the holidays. They also tend to value the attendance of a player who fits their program's profile when it's known that the player is missing one of his team's events in order to be there.

Without getting into semantics over terms like "major," I think the coaches tend to view camps as an important piece of the recruiting equation because they genuinely want to see those players who have done enough due diligence of their own to come to the conclusion that there may be a real fit for them with both the program and the school. In those instances, camps are viewed as a valuable means of giving the players an opportunity to validate their opinion of fit and the coaches a deeper knowledge of the player; both on and off the field. Because of this, it's not unusual to find that a material percentage of a college program's players attended one or more of that school's camps.

Technology has changed and twitter DM's are becoming the new emails because people perceive they are personal and not generated but they can be.  New software for coaches has DM's as an option along with snapchat and instagram.  The newest is a snapchat from practice with a note inviting them to a camp.  No one assumes you can mass generate snapchats but you can through the newer recruiting software. 

We only had success with two camps and both were the same.  We received information from the RC saying they wanted him on campus to see the campus and the rest of the staff be able to see him.  They both gave us reduced rates for the camps and a code to signup with that reduced rate.   We went and everything went as planned.  They both invited us back the next week for a personal visit to make an offer which one did.  The other called the day before the offer visit and apologized because the HC had been fired.  Skip forward several months and the new staff invited us for a camp to see him personally and we went, no reduced fee but thought it was just a new staff and not understanding the process.  They never spoke a word to him.  They were not even watching when he was pitching.  He threw one inning with 2 K's and a groundout, 8 pitches.  i wanted to go shout at them at least watch when we paid $150.  They also let him hit and he hit 2 out.  Only one more kid hit a ball to the fence.  Never a follow-up.  Understand why now.  They have not been successful as a coaching staff either.

I think if it is real they will let you know for sure it is real.  But I also know that if you are what they are looking for and do a great job MAYBE they will see you. 

Prepster posted:

Chico Escuela posted:

 

 

 

Coaches recognize that players have pretty crowded schedules, which is one of the reasons that you see so many camps scheduled in the late fall and over the holidays.

 

Maybe it's just the luck of the draw, but of ~5 schools where it might make sense for my son to attend a camp, all are scheduled for October or the first weekend in November.  (The first weekend in Nov. is when Showball and Headfirst have their Florida sessions, so going to camp then would mean missing the chance to play in front of many other schools.)  It's very possible I'm just approaching this the wrong way, or maybe my son just hasn't progressed far enough in the process yet...

Chico Escuela posted:

Prepster posted:

Chico Escuela posted:

 

 

 

Coaches recognize that players have pretty crowded schedules, which is one of the reasons that you see so many camps scheduled in the late fall and over the holidays.

 

Maybe it's just the luck of the draw, but of ~5 schools where it might make sense for my son to attend a camp, all are scheduled for October or the first weekend in November.  (The first weekend in Nov. is when Showball and Headfirst have their Florida sessions, so going to camp then would mean missing the chance to play in front of many other schools.)  It's very possible I'm just approaching this the wrong way, or maybe my son just hasn't progressed far enough in the process yet...

Each persons path is different. Not everybody Goes to Showball or Headfirst. It all depends on your goals. As always on these things your mileage may very. 

Chico Escuela posted:

If your son plays summer and fall travel ball (like my kid), then I assume that  there are only a couple of open weekends.  This fall was pretty typical:  two weekends with no tournament scheduled in September and October (reduced to one weekend after a rainout and a make-up event).  It turned out there were no camps of interest on that one weekend.  

I don't think son's coach would get bent out of shape if he skipped a typical weekend tournament to go to a camp at a school that was actively recruiting him, but I don't think son would want to do that more than once in a season. (I'm not aware of other players on the team doing it.  Could be I just didn't know why they were gone on a particular weekend.)  My son has gotten some notice from college coaches who saw him at tournaments.  Otherwise his in-person contacts were at Headfirst--after the summer season had ended--and he may do a similar multi-school showcase after the fall season ends.

I've been involved in a few threads here on camps... but I still feel like I'm missing something, because I don't really get how camps could be a major element of recruiting.    Timing, targeting and cost all seem to weigh against them.  If XYZ University is recruiting your kid, is nearby and their camp happens to be on a weekend when your son hasn't already committed to play with his travel team--then sure, why not?  But mostly the camp invites don't seem like useful recruiting tools to me.

 

Hey Chico, just checking your logic on this, particularly the bolded... 

Sounds like your son is with a good travel team that is getting him to events where he is getting notice.  That's awesome.  But, isn't that one of, if not the primary purpose of travel ball when a player is recruiting age?  ...to get seen and recruited?

Admittedly, the "camp" world covers the full range of purpose and effectiveness, mostly being as is so often stated here - a fundraiser for school and assistants.  But, often, they are used as a follow up, confirmation step, school tour/interview or offer opportunity when there is mutual interest.  I don't understand why you would be concerned about missing more than one travel weekend a season for a camp where he is being actively recruited.  That should be the goal for both the player and the travel org., right?

Of course, there should be reasonable commitment and good communication to the travel org but remember the purpose.  They should be excited for you when those opportunities come up, IMO, and properly prepared to fill the void for those players getting those desired opportunities.

PWE, coaches seem to be using some pretty low tactics these days.  I had my son respond to some of the camp invites the other day.  Most were generic invites but some were listed as "we have identified you as a top prospect". One invite was a lot different than the rest and the next day there was an invite to their Fall game (but also threw in another camp invite) and requested videos, schedule and included his cell.  He responded to 16 schools stating that he plays football in the Fall and included a brief bio and a link to his youtube video.  3 people watched it.  One school reached out and asked if he could come the following month.  They aren't interested in him, they just want us to drive 7 hours so the VC can get his $150. 

On the flip side he sent out video and bio to some schools a few months ago.  A PC emailed him back within an hour with a breakdown of his pitching and said they wanted to see him on campus. The RC followed up a few hours later.  If that is a tactic to get us to spend $100 for a camp, then job well done. 

Why would you assume they aren’t interested or it’s a tactic?

cabbagedad posted:

Chico Escuela posted:

If your son plays summer and fall travel ball (like my kid), then I assume that  there are only a couple of open weekends.  This fall was pretty typical:  two weekends with no tournament scheduled in September and October (reduced to one weekend after a rainout and a make-up event).  It turned out there were no camps of interest on that one weekend.  

I don't think son's coach would get bent out of shape if he skipped a typical weekend tournament to go to a camp at a school that was actively recruiting him, but I don't think son would want to do that more than once in a season. (I'm not aware of other players on the team doing it.  Could be I just didn't know why they were gone on a particular weekend.)  My son has gotten some notice from college coaches who saw him at tournaments.  Otherwise his in-person contacts were at Headfirst--after the summer season had ended--and he may do a similar multi-school showcase after the fall season ends.

I've been involved in a few threads here on camps... but I still feel like I'm missing something, because I don't really get how camps could be a major element of recruiting.    Timing, targeting and cost all seem to weigh against them.  If XYZ University is recruiting your kid, is nearby and their camp happens to be on a weekend when your son hasn't already committed to play with his travel team--then sure, why not?  But mostly the camp invites don't seem like useful recruiting tools to me.

 

Hey Chico, just checking your logic on this, particularly the bolded... 

Sounds like your son is with a good travel team that is getting him to events where he is getting notice.  That's awesome.  But, isn't that one of, if not the primary purpose of travel ball when a player is recruiting age?  ...to get seen and recruited?

Admittedly, the "camp" world covers the full range of purpose and effectiveness, mostly being as is so often stated here - a fundraiser for school and assistants.  But, often, they are used as a follow up, confirmation step, school tour/interview or offer opportunity when there is mutual interest.  I don't understand why you would be concerned about missing more than one travel weekend a season for a camp where he is being actively recruited.  That should be the goal for both the player and the travel org., right?

I think we are on the same page.  My son's travel club does well (and fairly) by its players from what I have seen.  If it made sense for my son to miss a couple of weekends to go to camps, I don't think his coaches would have a problem with that.  But I do think it's reasonable to expect a player who commits to a team to try to attend most of its games, which is a big reason why most camp invites are non-starters for my kid.  Teams and players ought to be able to figure out reasonable paths for particular situations, especially given how much variability and uncertainty there is in the college recruiting process.

baseballhs posted:

Why would you assume they aren’t interested or it’s a tactic?

The 2nd part I don't think is a tactic.  All of them in the top group are, imo. 

d-mac posted:

PWE, coaches seem to be using some pretty low tactics these days.  I had my son respond to some of the camp invites the other day.  Most were generic invites but some were listed as "we have identified you as a top prospect". One invite was a lot different than the rest and the next day there was an invite to their Fall game (but also threw in another camp invite) and requested videos, schedule and included his cell.  He responded to 16 schools stating that he plays football in the Fall and included a brief bio and a link to his youtube video.  3 people watched it.  One school reached out and asked if he could come the following month.  They aren't interested in him, they just want us to drive 7 hours so the VC can get his $150. 

On the flip side he sent out video and bio to some schools a few months ago.  A PC emailed him back within an hour with a breakdown of his pitching and said they wanted to see him on campus. The RC followed up a few hours later.  If that is a tactic to get us to spend $100 for a camp, then job well done. 

 

What do you consider low tactics?  I had to remind myself that recruiting is a two-way street.  As a parent and player, I'm doing everything I can to help my son be seen.  As a coach, they are doing everything they can to see the right players, plus make money for AC/VC.  It takes 100 emails to get the right response for us and it takes 1,000 emails for them to get the right player.  Understand there are players that should know they are not D1 or P5 players that dish out the money for every camp these schools offer.  Having been to several with my sons, it is tough to watch at times.  You just want to go down on the field and help the coaching staff by saying to about 90% of the players there that they will never be considered by X school and most will never play college ball.  My middle son is a JUCO coach for softball and does camps to help support his program and other coaches he brings in.  There is usually only about 5 players out of 100 that can help his program or any program but he has to do the camps/showcases to find the 5.

PitchingFan posted:

d-mac posted:

PWE, coaches seem to be using some pretty low tactics these days.  I had my son respond to some of the camp invites the other day.  Most were generic invites but some were listed as "we have identified you as a top prospect". One invite was a lot different than the rest and the next day there was an invite to their Fall game (but also threw in another camp invite) and requested videos, schedule and included his cell.  He responded to 16 schools stating that he plays football in the Fall and included a brief bio and a link to his youtube video.  3 people watched it.  One school reached out and asked if he could come the following month.  They aren't interested in him, they just want us to drive 7 hours so the VC can get his $150. 

On the flip side he sent out video and bio to some schools a few months ago.  A PC emailed him back within an hour with a breakdown of his pitching and said they wanted to see him on campus. The RC followed up a few hours later.  If that is a tactic to get us to spend $100 for a camp, then job well done. 

 

What do you consider low tactics?  I had to remind myself that recruiting is a two-way street.  As a parent and player, I'm doing everything I can to help my son be seen.  As a coach, they are doing everything they can to see the right players, plus make money for AC/VC.  It takes 100 emails to get the right response for us and it takes 1,000 emails for them to get the right player.  Understand there are players that should know they are not D1 or P5 players that dish out the money for every camp these schools offer.  Having been to several with my sons, it is tough to watch at times.  You just want to go down on the field and help the coaching staff by saying to about 90% of the players there that they will never be considered by X school and most will never play college ball.  My middle son is a JUCO coach for softball and does camps to help support his program and other coaches he brings in.  There is usually only about 5 players out of 100 that can help his program or any program but he has to do the camps/showcases to find the 5.

I think anytime a coach says "We've identified you as a top prospect", "your name was recommended to me", or "we recently saw you play at PG Event XYZ" (even though you were on a roster but didn't attend).  I think all of those are low tactics.  It seems to be happening more and more.  Don't make a kid/family feel like they are being recruited so that your VC can make an extra $100.  We have this board to sort through and educate ourselves.  A lot of people don't and they just go to the camp and spend their time and money for nothing.  

We've been to numerous camps.  Most of them have been good and I didn't regret the money or time we spent.  Except for a Big 12 school whose coaches didn't even show up.  They had a HS coach and the operations guy run the camp with some current players.   

PitchingFan posted:

They both gave us reduced rates for the camps and a code to signup with that reduced rate.  

Unless we're talking about pro-rating a camp fee because the camper couldn't attend the entire session, a reduced camp fee for a recruited player is a clear violation of NCAA regulations. Any coach who takes the annual compliance exam as required by the NCAA ought to know better than to offer that.

Prepster posted:

PitchingFan posted:

They both gave us reduced rates for the camps and a code to signup with that reduced rate.  

Unless we're talking about pro-rating a camp fee because the camper couldn't attend the entire session, a reduced camp fee for a recruited player is a clear violation of NCAA regulations. Any coach who takes the annual compliance exam as required by the NCAA ought to know better than to offer that.

It is a violation, but it happens all the time. 

One was officially run as PBR Camp and the other he went as a PO for one day of 2 day camp so that is probably why both were legal.

I will agree with the last statement of we say you play at XYZ when they did not is wrong but saying we see you as a prospect or we would love to see you play is not in my opinion.  I understand the frustration but I also realize it is their job and my job is to vet the camps.  When I go without vetting it, then I have wasted my money not them taking it. 

I get amused when I still get invites to top prospect camps when he has already committed.  I saw one coach that had recruited my son the other day that I have known for years.  He (their automated system) sent me an email inviting my son to a fall prospect camp.  I asked him if he was still recruiting my son and he said no he is already committed, unless something had happened.  I answered no and asked why he sent me an email.  He said it is automated and just uses his email to send since he is RC. 

d-mac posted:

Prepster posted:

PitchingFan posted:

They both gave us reduced rates for the camps and a code to signup with that reduced rate.  

Unless we're talking about pro-rating a camp fee because the camper couldn't attend the entire session, a reduced camp fee for a recruited player is a clear violation of NCAA regulations. Any coach who takes the annual compliance exam as required by the NCAA ought to know better than to offer that.

It is a violation, but it happens all the time. 

It actually doesn't; not among DI programs, at least.

As PitchingFan's clarification illustrates, it happens quite a bit at the many camps run by privately-run organizations; many of which employ college assistants as instructors and have the feel of college camps. ...and, as his other example verifies, they can be and routinely are reduced when campers' schedules prevent them from attending the entire camp.