Tebow's eye black

Pure and simple, I liked it. Nothing in the U.S. Constitution says the non-religious shall be protected from exposure to all things religious in any shape, method, or form. Political correctness has gotten just so silly in recent years.

Atheist athletes don't believe in anything so what would they display?

Any problems with Holy Cross having their school name on their uniforms? (Rhetorical question of course)

Tebow is a classy kid.

I totally respect hoki's opinion. I also am a believer and respect Tebow's beliefs. That said, I would prefer not to see it. Sports for me is a break from serious things like politics and religion. I am sure God holds no rooting interest in the outcome.

My main reason for not wanting to see religious displays of any kind is I don't want to be exposed to anyone elses religion. I don't want to see Islamic displays for example. I don't want to see atheistic displays either. For example "Darwin is God - Deal with It!"

Although I don't really care for Florida as a team, I am really a big fan of Tebow. I am just curious if his college game will transfer to the pros, or will he flame out like a lot of Florida QB's.

I thought it was awesome, if more of our student-athletes and pro athletes showed the courage, class, dedication and faith of Tebow - in my opinion we would be better off. More of guys like Tebow, less of Plaxico, PacMan, Marvin Harrison!

I'm with hokieone and grinder on this. I applaud him for his stance. It would be easier for him to be "vanilla".

From what I gather Tebow does what he does because of his beliefs not for show or for any personal accolades. Blame that on the media.

I'll quit before I get in trouble.

Great questions...

I have no problem with Tebow's choice, as I have no problem with athlete's wearing crosses, stars of David or whatever reflects personal beliefs. If the NCAA, MLB or any entity went down the road of enforcing the exclusion of religions expression, would that include batters blessing themselves as they stepped into the box? What could the penalty be, strike one, automatic out, ejection, lifetime ban? Definitely would be challenged as a First Amendment issue.

Seeing other people's messages of belief does nothing to change mine, so I don't mind them. ClevelandDad, however, you might have just created an atheistic bumper sticker!

ClevelandDad,
I think you and I are on the same page. I like what Tim Tebow does. However that does open doors for others to to do the same --- except much differently which I won't like. I would almost guarantee there will be limitations placed on athletes displaying beliefs, opinions, whatever because someone will test the system. I can remember when mandatory motor cycle helmet wearing became law in many states. Some riders would wear their helmet on their leg while others would camouflage helmets to look like thick long hair triggering a traffic stop just to irritate the authorities.

Truth is, Tebow wouldn't be where he is without Phil. 4:13.

The voice of NCAA is not as powerful as the verse, or the messenger. We are all free to choose to speak, demonstrate, show, announce, LIVE...whatever.
Here's my question...
Why be ashamed of doing what too many "fear"?

I didn't see Tebow last night. I have seen others with eye-black with a Mizuno logo.



I didn't like it one bit. Just because Tebow chose a biblical chapter and verse doesn't make me like adulterated eye-black any more than before.

I'm guessing that any commercial advertising the player might try to display on his own would not be allowed. This form of religous expression falls into the same category as advertising in my book. Tatoos can be covered with a sleeve unless you go nutz like Mike Tyson did with his face.

FrankF said:

quote:

I'll quit before I get in trouble.

Frank, lay all the blame on ME if this gets out of hand. I am cautiously watching the responses. I think these are valid questions because they do impact an athlete and the sports. Discussing these may answer some questions as to WHY athletes do what they do, why coaches do what they do, and why the NCAA does what they do (well maybe not the NCAA). I look for the NCAA to allow 17 different religions to be represented on the body or personal equipment of an athlete but can only be large enough to be legible from something like 11.7 feet.

Disclaimer...I'm not a Florida fan. When you look at sports and see examples of how NOT to handle yourself everyone, Tebow's a breath of fresh air. The kid is what, 21, and has done more to help those that are in need than anyone else on the field last night...he's been on 3-4 mission trips. When one of the OU guys says he's a middle of the pack big 12 QB, Tebow says nothing...drills OU...and then doesn't even say told you so after the game when prompted about it. He's an impressive kid. I love that he stands up for what he believes in and doesn't throw it in your face like all the other ego-maniacs. He just stands there and says this is what I believe.

It has a little more substance than the other guys saying "I thinking my area code is the best".

quote:

We are all free to choose to speak, demonstrate, show, announce, LIVE...whatever.

Yes you can do as you please but only in moderation, and not within 100 feet of a public or private school, and with a permit, and only if you have a converter box on your TV which may be delayed because you neighbor hasn't gotten his converter box voucher. ----- Oh did I mention it cannot be mandated by s ex, marital status, race, creed, religion, color, age, familial status, physical or mental disability, or national origin.

Superman wears Tim Tebow pajamas.

He is the real deal. His whole family goes on those mission trips, he ministers to prisoners in jail, he does all that stuff. I'm not a religious person, but I sure can respect someone who

"just stands there and says this is what I believe," as TX-Husker put it.

and then lives the example of a righteous life with no excuses whatsoever. I don't mind the eye-black at all.

Boy, if he's the 4th best QB in the Big 12, then I sure would like to see the top three! He actually did say something about that - he said that he took it as a compliment - he would be proud to be 4th best in that conference. Then he said that kind of talk got him "amped up." I'll say!

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He actually did say something about that - he said that he took it as a compliment - he would be proud to be 4th best in that conference. Then he said that kind of talk got him "amped up." I'll say!

Yeah, I heard that. You know he was thinking 4th best huh...what do you think now that I whipped you. You know in his heart he doesn't think his 4th best in the big 12. I admire him for bitting his tongue and not taking the reporters bait. Not many his age, or twice it, have the dicipline to do that.

I have no problem with what it says; I'm just not a fan of the eye black and all the messages on it. We had football players this year who were writing their area codes on the eye black and on their wrist tape. I have no idea why?

I think the saying "The name on front is more important than the name on the back" comes into play here as well.

I do not feel that the athetic arena or a website such as this is the place for any religious or political promotion. I do not need to have someone I don't even know telling me to read the bible everyday or more often or that the passage cited on Teibows eyeblack helped him win--his talent helped him win plain and simple

And this is from a guy who has seen that "bright light at the end of the tunnel" 8 times in my life

The root of this question is NOT about Tim Tebow specifically and WHAT he does (other than have an eye black message), WHY he does it or WHAT message he sends. It about an athlete that is using the athletic field, the media, the fan base, to promote his belief or his point of view. Is that OK? If his belief were to promote abortion or *** marriage would you accept that? You and I approve HIS MESSAGE but his message isn't the issue.

Fungo you bring up a very good point.

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I am just curious if his college game will transfer to the pros, or will he flame out like a lot of Florida QB's.

I realize this thread is about eye black, but I have a question that the quote above reminded me of. Last night, my son and I were watching the game and he commented, "If Tebow weren't so big, he wouldn't be that good. The only reason he's successful is that he's big and fast. He throws horribly. He's kind of like the football equivalent of Shaquille O'Neal."

I am not that good an analyzer of football talent, but is there any merit to what my son said?

Well you know Fungo, I had a response typed out here when I realized it isn't entirely true.

On one hand, I don't like many of the messages being expressed on uniforms, eye black, etc. I don't think the baseball (or football) field is the place to do that.

But on the other hand, we wore a #50 decal on our football helmets my senior year for a teammate killed in a car accident. In the NFL, they are currently wearing the GU on their helmets. And the list goes on and on.

I have to wonder if there is really much of a difference? Where do you put the "dividing" line between "right and wrong" with this?

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
The root of this question is NOT about Tim Tebow specifically and WHAT he does (other than have an eye black message), WHY he does it or WHAT message he sends. It about an athlete that is using the athletic field, the media, the fan base, to promote his belief or his point of view. Is that OK? If his belief were to promote abortion or *** marriage would you accept that? You and I approve HIS MESSAGE but his message isn't the issue.

Good question. Unfortunately that's above my pay grade.

quote:

It about an athlete that is using the athletic field, the media, the fan base, to promote his belief or his point of view. Is that OK?

It's pretty clear the NCAA uses the athletes to spread it's product/fan base/promote it's views etc without paying them. Many call it exploiting them...I wouldn't go that far as many are getting some portion of a very expensive education paid for. I don't see what wrong with athletes promoting their points of view...within reason.

"Hey I heard Bob Stoops ordered Corn Flakes and Milk for breakfast and they gave it to him on a plate, because he loses everything in a bowl!"

Sorry I just couldn't resist!

CHOMP!

Good question Fungo. I remember a few years back seeing Brett Butler flash a Biblical reference written on his batting gloves during the All-Star game player intros. I can't remember it being a big deal at the time, but I wonder if MLB issued a memo regarding saying anything but "Hi Mom!"

I'd certainly rather see Tebow's message than Mizuno's, but honestly I'd prefer to not see the athletic stage be used as a platform to promote agendas of any kind. That's one of the appeals of sports, they're an escape of sorts from the constant bombardment of the "real world"... at least they used to provide some respite in between commercial breaks.

Tebow is a great athelete but how good a QB he will be in the pros if he even has that opportunity is still up for debate--- great college QB's don't necessarily make great pro QB's-- and he can wear all messages he wants in his eye black --it still won't change

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Where do you put the "dividing" line between "right and wrong" with this?

Bulldog, Great point and I think we will see this issue grow into a national debate. This even sounds cold to me but I thought the Alzheimer pins worn by the Fox broadcasters were pushing the edge but on the other hand I appreciate the recognition given Gene Upshaw (GU) or wearing the number of a deceased teammate. Hard to explain ---- Maybe I wouldn't call it "right" or "wrong" --- I see it as appropriate or inappropriate.

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I thought the Alzheimer pins worn by the Fox broadcasters were pushing the edge

Fungo...do you feel the same way about the pink breast cancer awareness ribbons and pins? I see them all in the same bucket.

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Great point and I think we will see this issue grow into a national debate.

I'm sure the ACLU is looking into it as we speak.

Would people be going nuts if the eye black said:

"Praise Allah" ????

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Would people be going nuts if the eye black said:

"Praise Allah"

Maybe, but there's no reason they should. Praise Budda would be fine too! It's not freedom from religion, it's freedom of religion...without exceptions.

Simple question---why do we need messages, any messages at all, in the eye black ???

People who have a problem with it need to get a life. Do they only think that 'freedom of speech' and 'freedom of religion' only apply when they agree with it?

If this is the biggest thing they have to worry about, they don't have any problems. And don't ever forget, if it weren't for the sacrifices of the brave men and women who serve overseas and in our country, on everyone's behalf, we might not even be having this discussion. They are the reason people can wear these things and we can debate them.

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Fungo...do you feel the same way about the pink breast cancer awareness ribbons and pins? I see them all in the same bucket.

TX-Husker, good point. I don't and I don't know why. I shouldn't have mentioned sportscasters because sportscasters and the athletes are in different arenas and follow different guidelines. Every causes is not the same. One may look at breast cancer, alzheimers, aids and alcoholism, and chronic gambling as all in the same bucket, while other would NEVER accept that.

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Would people be going nuts if the eye black said:

"Praise Allah" ????

That was my point. I don't know if they would be going nuts, but I wonder if they would be as understanding to those types of messages.

It can get ridiculous if left unchecked. The NBA began enforcing a tucked-in shirt rule a few years back. Jim McMahon was fined by the NFL for wearing messages on his headband.

How about an offensive political message like:
"Hitler was Right" or "Assassinate Obama"

I think it is better to do away with the messages rather than carve out exceptions. As far as GU or other team-sponsered messages on equipment, those might be best regulated by the public expressing some sort of dissatisfaction. I believe the rights of the team and the individual are different however.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Tebow is a great athelete but how good a QB he will be in the pros if he even has that opportunity is still up for debate--- great college QB's don't necessarily make great pro QB's-- and he can wear all messages he wants in his eye black --it still won't change

He will do better than Ryan Leaf. He is an outgoing Christian who takes seriously his goal of testifying. Christians have been persecuted for 2000 years and the beat goes on.

CD, freedom of speech is freedom of speech. It does not exclude rude or offensive comments. There need to be policies that either disallow everything except 'official' uniforms, or you simply can't allow some expressions while disallowing others. I'm a lot more conservative than many folks, but I simply can't argue with a straight face that people should be allowed to express themselves in certain ways, but not others. One of the main problems if you do allow that is 'Who decides what is OK?' I certainly wouldn't want to let the dipsticks that we've unwisely put in charge of this country make those decisions. They can't run anything they've been put in charge of well, so we can't expect them to decide this appropriately either. You have to either allow everything within reason, or not allow anything.

A final thought....If 'offensive' expression should be disallowed; does that mean that 90% of the players in the NBA have to get full body laser tattoo removal?

I know that I am in a part of the country that has different thoughts than most of this board and posters but--Religion and Politics need not be here

Would I be accepted if I said "do not read the bible every day"

So for those that don't have a problem with it, will you have a problem when some worthless dad has raised his son to be a racist and this kid decides to wear a pair of swastikas in his eye-black. A little far fetched, but I think you get my point.

quote:

Do they only think that 'freedom of speech' and 'freedom of religion' only apply when they agree with it?

No, but there are limits to it. These freedoms are basically against the government from infringing upon YOU - not your absolute right to say and do whatever pops up into your mind. Free speech is limited and so is religion as well. Two well-known examples include you can't yell fire in a crowded theatre (never happened but a good example) and we know that religious expressions such as the Ten Commandments in court houses have been removed. I am not saying I agree with these decisions, but I am giving examples of the limitations. Nothing is absolute. Tebow can continue his messages until someone one-ups him in an offensive way and the majority of the public becomes up and arms about it. Of course, the ACLU will become interested in the case at that time.

Who knows, they might already be considering litigation to prevent Tebow from doing it I can see the argument now. The University of Florida is supported by public funds. Thus, religious expressions by their athletes are improper as potentially promoting one religion over another.