Tim Tebow

quote:

but to themselves, which, while obviously open to debate, is what I believe Mr. Tebow does.

I don't think this statement could be any FURTHER from the truth and certainly is NOT evidenced by his behavior through these years that he's been forefront in the public eye!

All I see is some people looking for a way, anyway, to bring someone of exemplary character DOWN to their own level.

Why are FACTS that obviously had a great effect on the game always considered "excuses"?

Pittsburgh was without its leading rusher (Rashard Mendenhall), leading tackler (Clark), Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey, left tackle (Max Starks) and two starting defensive linemen (Brett Keisel and Casey Hampton).
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnor...nderestimating-tebow

… losing Hampton to a knee injury on the first series and defensive end Brett Keisel to a groin injury in the second quarter.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12009/1202347-87-0.stm

Go figure, the Steelers gave Tebow all day in the pocket and Clark's replacement cornerback got burned by DThomas 5x in the game. Naah, that couldn't possibly matter; it's just an excuse!

Plus, quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was playing on one leg because of a high ankle sprain.
He was sacked 5 times. That probably doesn't matter either, right?

Hey, the kid had a great game, no doubt. So did his defense (again!) and his o-line (again!). But anyone wanting to suggest that "he" beat the #1 defense and the "defending AFC champs" (as I've seen both claims on other sites already) isn't being fair at all. The Steelers that Denver beat yesterday were a mere shell of either of those. So take the win and enjoy the ride. But let's not try to pretend that this was in any way the same as beating a HEALTHY Steelers team.

Sandman...Clark is a safety. *** and Taylor that were getting burned were the Steelers normal starting corners. Just so we are talking about facts.

Anyone else think that a lot of this Tebow stuff would go away if the folks throwing rocks would just go away and let the folks who like him talk about him?? Without that side there would be no continuing story or as much interest. IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Sandman:
Why are FACTS that obviously had a great effect on the game always considered "excuses"?

Pittsburgh was without its leading rusher (Rashard Mendenhall), leading tackler (Clark), Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey, left tackle (Max Starks) and two starting defensive linemen (Brett Keisel and Casey Hampton).
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnor...nderestimating-tebow

… losing Hampton to a knee injury on the first series and defensive end Brett Keisel to a groin injury in the second quarter.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12009/1202347-87-0.stm

Go figure, the Steelers gave Tebow all day in the pocket and Clark's replacement cornerback got burned by DThomas 5x in the game. Naah, that couldn't possibly matter; it's just an excuse!

Plus, quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was playing on one leg because of a high ankle sprain.
He was sacked 5 times. That probably doesn't matter either, right?

Hey, the kid had a great game, no doubt. So did his defense (again!) and his o-line (again!). But anyone wanting to suggest that "he" beat the #1 defense and the "defending AFC champs" (as I've seen both claims on other sites already) isn't being fair at all. The Steelers that Denver beat yesterday were a mere shell of either of those. So take the win and enjoy the ride. But let's not try to pretend that this was in any way the same as beating a HEALTHY Steelers team.

Sandman,

With the exception of losing Hampton and Keisel during the game, ALL of the other injuries were known before the game and NO ONE gave Denver a chance.

If you predict a team is going to when with its known issues before the game, pointing out all of them after is nothing but making excusses!

Denver beat the #1 defense period!

Yesterday's game to me was a shocker. It was fun to watch, but even as a Tebow fan I was sure going in it was going to be ugly.

Tebow's numbers would have been even better had his darned receivers just caught routine balls. I think I saw at least 4 routine/accurate balls dropped. Also, his completions and yards numbers do not include the 32 yards the Broncos picked up on a pass interference penalty.

The long ball was there all day for some reason. It was like the old days where a QB would repeatedly throw deep, hit maybe only half his passes but put up big yardage numbers. With some key runs for a TD and some big first downs thrown in for good measure.

This sure is fun for Tebow fans and Broncos fans while it lasts. It's hard for me to imagine them coming out on top at New England next weekend. But then, I never thought yesterday would happen, so I certainly won't bet against them.

quote:

Originally posted by Sandman:
Why are FACTS that obviously had a great effect on the game always considered "excuses"?

Pittsburgh was without its leading rusher (Rashard Mendenhall), leading tackler (Clark), Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey, left tackle (Max Starks) and two starting defensive linemen (Brett Keisel and Casey Hampton).
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnor...nderestimating-tebow

… losing Hampton to a knee injury on the first series and defensive end Brett Keisel to a groin injury in the second quarter.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12009/1202347-87-0.stm

Go figure, the Steelers gave Tebow all day in the pocket and Clark's replacement cornerback got burned by DThomas 5x in the game. Naah, that couldn't possibly matter; it's just an excuse!

Plus, quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was playing on one leg because of a high ankle sprain.
He was sacked 5 times. That probably doesn't matter either, right?

Hey, the kid had a great game, no doubt. So did his defense (again!) and his o-line (again!). But anyone wanting to suggest that "he" beat the #1 defense and the "defending AFC champs" (as I've seen both claims on other sites already) isn't being fair at all. The Steelers that Denver beat yesterday were a mere shell of either of those. So take the win and enjoy the ride. But let's not try to pretend that this was in any way the same as beating a HEALTHY Steelers team.

Ok, my bad on Clark's position. So you don't think having a backup safety affected Taylor? Maybe the coverage over the top that he's used to wasn't there?

Did most people still expect PIT to win? Yes. But I stand by my assertion that the Steelers team DEN beat surely wasn't the same #1 defense or defending AFC champ.

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Originally posted by baseball_fever:
Josh Hamilton is vocal about giving thanks to Jesus and God in public. I don't see a difference between him and Tebow. I think the media has blown this up.

I don't understand why people feel he is forcing his faith. He makes his statement about himself and does not say "you need this too". Media driven. Look and listen to him - a pretty humble guy. Don't listen to the media.

Wish more pro athletes were like him - better role model for kids - faith aside.

Difference is that Josh is an admitted addict. People love a reformed addict in sports and feel that faith has "saved" Hamilton so he gets a "pass" that Tebow does not get since he has been clean. Not a good reason, but I think it makes a difference to a lot of people.

quote:

Originally posted by Sandman:

quote:

Originally posted by Sandman:
Why are FACTS that obviously had a great effect on the game always considered "excuses"?

Pittsburgh was without its leading rusher (Rashard Mendenhall), leading tackler (Clark), Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey, left tackle (Max Starks) and two starting defensive linemen (Brett Keisel and Casey Hampton).
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnor...nderestimating-tebow

… losing Hampton to a knee injury on the first series and defensive end Brett Keisel to a groin injury in the second quarter.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12009/1202347-87-0.stm

Go figure, the Steelers gave Tebow all day in the pocket and Clark's replacement cornerback got burned by DThomas 5x in the game. Naah, that couldn't possibly matter; it's just an excuse!

Plus, quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was playing on one leg because of a high ankle sprain.
He was sacked 5 times. That probably doesn't matter either, right?

Hey, the kid had a great game, no doubt. So did his defense (again!) and his o-line (again!). But anyone wanting to suggest that "he" beat the #1 defense and the "defending AFC champs" (as I've seen both claims on other sites already) isn't being fair at all. The Steelers that Denver beat yesterday were a mere shell of either of those. So take the win and enjoy the ride. But let's not try to pretend that this was in any way the same as beating a HEALTHY Steelers team.

Ok, my bad on Clark's position. So you don't think having a backup safety affected Taylor? Maybe the coverage over the top that he's used to wasn't there?

Did most people still expect PIT to win? Yes. But I stand by my assertion that the Steelers team DEN beat surely wasn't the same #1 defense or defending AFC champ.

On the plays in question Clark's absence would have had little to no impact with exception of maybe Royal's TD, but on that play Tebow looked off the safety (not sure which one) and made a great throw. Clark's replacement could have won the game for them when he helped force the fumble by McGahee.

Other times it was Polamalu getting burned and on the OT throw the great Dick Lebeau max run blitzed with both safeties and they got burned. Honestly a very dumb move in that situation. Blitz to stop a five or six yard run but in the process leave your guy one one one with one play to beat you.

Denver's O line played great. I think the Steelers blitzed plenty. You also failed to mention that the Broncos best receiver (at least to this point) was knocked out of the game early as well.

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Originally posted by BackstopDad32:

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Originally posted by Sandman:

quote:

Originally posted by Sandman:
Why are FACTS that obviously had a great effect on the game always considered "excuses"?

Pittsburgh was without its leading rusher (Rashard Mendenhall), leading tackler (Clark), Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey, left tackle (Max Starks) and two starting defensive linemen (Brett Keisel and Casey Hampton).
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnor...nderestimating-tebow

… losing Hampton to a knee injury on the first series and defensive end Brett Keisel to a groin injury in the second quarter.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12009/1202347-87-0.stm

Go figure, the Steelers gave Tebow all day in the pocket and Clark's replacement cornerback got burned by DThomas 5x in the game. Naah, that couldn't possibly matter; it's just an excuse!

Plus, quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was playing on one leg because of a high ankle sprain.
He was sacked 5 times. That probably doesn't matter either, right?

Hey, the kid had a great game, no doubt. So did his defense (again!) and his o-line (again!). But anyone wanting to suggest that "he" beat the #1 defense and the "defending AFC champs" (as I've seen both claims on other sites already) isn't being fair at all. The Steelers that Denver beat yesterday were a mere shell of either of those. So take the win and enjoy the ride. But let's not try to pretend that this was in any way the same as beating a HEALTHY Steelers team.

Ok, my bad on Clark's position. So you don't think having a backup safety affected Taylor? Maybe the coverage over the top that he's used to wasn't there?

Did most people still expect PIT to win? Yes. But I stand by my assertion that the Steelers team DEN beat surely wasn't the same #1 defense or defending AFC champ.

On the plays in question Clark's absence would have had little to no impact with exception of maybe Royal's TD, but on that play Tebow looked off the safety (not sure which one) and made a great throw. Clark's replacement could have won the game for them when he helped force the fumble by McGahee.

Other times it was Polamalu getting burned and on the OT throw the great Dick Lebeau max run blitzed with both safeties and they got burned. Honestly a very dumb move in that situation. Blitz to stop a five or six yard run but in the process leave your guy one one one with one play to beat you.

Denver's O line played great. I think the Steelers blitzed plenty. You also failed to mention that the Broncos best receiver (at least to this point) was knocked out of the game early as well.

i'm for tebow all the way..I love the way it just makes the liberals ties spin..lol

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Originally posted by BackstopDad32:
... You also failed to mention that the Broncos best receiver (at least to this point) was knocked out of the game early as well.

Cuz he hasn't been anywhere NEAR their best receiver the past 4 or 5 games. C'mon!

Seriously, like pretty much every win Denver has had since "he" took over, can you honestly say that there were NO extenuating circumstances and that he faced the same version of those teams that other teams faced all year? REALLY???

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Seriously, like pretty much every win Denver has had since "he" took over, can you honestly say that there were NO extenuating circumstances and that he faced the same version of those teams that other teams faced all year? REALLY???

"You are what your results say you are", is how the saying goes. As a Cowboys' fan, I would love to have extenuating circumstances wins and still be in the playoffs.

Your right. He's a joke and for certain he has no chance at being any good.

It is the NFL. No one after the first practice/week, etc is the same version of themselves. Guys get hurt all the time. Guys have to fill in. Heck the Texans are winning with their third string QB at the time.

Guys like you and RJM I just don't get. If you dislike the guy so much why do you all care so much.

Go to ESPN.com and see the articles about Tebow and how many comments they get. Are you really going to blame the media for keeping the Tebow hype machine going????? Why would they not give you exactly what you are asking them to give you??

Seems pretty basic to me. All the folks who dislike Tebow go away so will the Tebow hype. Guys like you are the reason Tebow hype exists. Not cause he professes his faith to God (heck the media is supposed to be liberal right!!shouldn't they want to keep him off the airways) or any other silly thing you all come up with.

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There is no doubt that the fact Tebow is a christian it irks some people. The fact that he does not try and hide it like its something he should be ashamed of.

It doesn't bother people he doesn't hide he's a Christian. Look at all the players who pray together on the field after the game. I don't know anyone bothered by that. What bothered people is when Tebow utilized and manipulated the media to "push" his religion on others. It's in your face symbolism that strikes home and reminds some people of every time a fundamentalist insulted your religion in public or to your face. When fundamentalists push their religion in your face they are being religiously intolerant and offensive. They are clueless they are doing it because they think they are saving you by trying to bring you to Jesus, only Jesus can save you and your religion is a fraud.

I didn't see Tebow's post game interview this week. But since Warner had a talk with him he seems to have toned it down significantly. It doesn't bother me when he mentioned Jesus once. It's when it's repetitive. I've seen interviews where he didn't mention Jesus once. Maybe these interviews are being edited. In these interviews he comes off as a very nice guy.

On the field he is a role model for mental toughness, effort and resiliance. The guy gets knocked down yet keeps getting up convinced he can get the job done.

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Originally posted by justbaseball:

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Originally posted by RJM:
Wow! Not a peep out of the Tebow lovers for three weeks. The Broncos win a game and they all come out of the woodwork to tell everyone else how great he is. There have to be some people here who played football and noticed a significant turning point in the game.

In the first quarter it didn't matter the Steelers were missing a starting defensive lineman and the starting safety. Two starters can cover the mistakes of one player. The Steelers were stuffing the Broncos. By the end of the first quater all three Steelers linemen were out of the game. It meant the Broncos could place all their focus on stopping Harrison. From the second quarter on the Steelers didn't have a pass rush. There was no pressure on Tebow. Four of the passes he completed for over two hundred yards he got to stand back in the pocket for a more than usual amount of time then lob the ball over the top. The safety was out of position a lot. Any NFL QB would have completed those four passes. A good NFL quarterback would have carved up the Steelers up and down the field for three quarters.

Other than those four passes Tebow was still throwing balls at receiver's feet and over their heads. He lacks footwork, lacks pocket presence, can't read defenses, lacks a quick release, lacks throwing mechanics, and has an average NFL arm. He's not going to make a career out of lobbing a few balls deep down the middle.

I told people this before this game and I'll stick with it. Tebow will be replaced at some point in the 2012 season and waived before the 2013 season. His skills will not get him through the difficult schedule next season.

At least Tebow cut out the excessive public religious displays. I wonder if Goodell had Kurt Warner call Tebow. After that talk Tebow toned it down.

Whew! I was concerned that your obsession had ended and you had converted to a fan. Glad to see the sun rose from the East once again!

I look at the body of work, not one game.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

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Originally posted by dw8man:

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
ESPN talked about Elway calling Tebow into his office and challenging him this week. Supposedly they "took the handcuffs off Tebow" and "asked him to throw the ball down field". I would say young Mr. Tebow responded!

I find it very ironic he threw for 316........

John would be very proud!

Nice! I didn't catch that.

Those 10 completions averaged 3:16 yards per catch.

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Originally posted by BackstopDad32:
Your right. He's a joke and for certain he has no chance at being any good.

It is the NFL. No one after the first practice/week, etc is the same version of themselves. Guys get hurt all the time. Guys have to fill in. Heck the Texans are winning with their third string QB at the time.

Guys like you and RJM I just don't get. If you dislike the guy so much why do you all care so much.

Go to ESPN.com and see the articles about Tebow and how many comments they get. Are you really going to blame the media for keeping the Tebow hype machine going????? Why would they not give you exactly what you are asking them to give you??

Seems pretty basic to me. All the folks who dislike Tebow go away so will the Tebow hype. Guys like you are the reason Tebow hype exists. Not cause he professes his faith to God (heck the media is supposed to be liberal right!!shouldn't they want to keep him off the airways) or any other silly thing you all come up with.

Herein may lie the REAL reason for the strong debate, IMO - who said I "don't like him"? Whenever anyone points out that "Maybe he had a little help" or "Maybe if Barber didn't run out of bounds and stop the clock", or "Maybe if Denver had faced anywhere near a full Steelers squad", etc., we're accused of being "haters". Give it a rest already. (And notice that I didn't even bring up a word about religion, so please let's not go there?). I am simply pointing out that I've yet to see Denver win a game without the planets all aligning for them. That kind of fortune, IMO, seems unsustainable (and the previous 3 games showed us a possible glimpse of his true future).

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Originally posted by baseball_fever:
Josh Hamilton is vocal about giving thanks to Jesus and God in public. I don't see a difference between him and Tebow. I think the media has blown this up.

I don't understand why people feel he is forcing his faith. He makes his statement about himself and does not say "you need this too". Media driven. Look and listen to him - a pretty humble guy. Don't listen to the media.

Wish more pro athletes were like him - better role model for kids - faith aside.

First I'll say Tebow has toned it down dramatically since a talk with Kurt Warner. Also, Aaron Rogers is very religious. Did you know that? When asked why he doesn't use football to promote Christianity he said it would be inappropriate. Since Tebow has toned it down, to me the only debate is about his football skills. But there are people who think God placed him on earth to spread the message and are oblivious to his football skills.

Going back to when Tebow was over the top he manipulated the media. At Florida he wrote John3:16 on his eye black stickers. When he realized the media picked up on it he started doing a scripture of the week. He used his college football fame to participate in a political and religious ad during the Super Bowl. Regardless of how tame the ad was, it was an anti abortion ad. Abortion is a political issue. There are a lot of people who don't want religion and politics when they tune into football. They're sensitive subjects. Tebow decided to be in your face on sensitive subjects. Tebows first few NFL interviews as a starting quarterback were Jesus this, Jesus that, Jesus this, Jesus that all through the interviews.

If you've never been told you pray to false god by a fundamentalist you may not get it. If you didn't grow up having Catholics tell you Jews killed Jesus you may not get it. If you were ever told your family can't stay at a summer resort because "we cater to a Christian cliente" you may not get it. If your place of worship was never vandalized and crosses were spray painted all over the building you may not get it. If a coach ever forced you in the dugout to bow your head and pray to Jesus or be kicked off the team before a game you may not get it.

I'm as religiously tolerant as anyone. If hugging and worshipping a tree gives you strength, go for it. I won't judge or criticize. I'll accept it makes you a better person. Just don't push your tree on me. I am offended when my religion is denounced in the name of having another religion put in my face as better for me.

I'll probably get a PM from Julie (MN-MOM) over this post. Maybe this will be the time she kicks me off the board. There are fundamentalists on this site who complain to her every time I make these kinds of posts. They so refuse to accept there are other acceptible religions that don't embrace Jesus they are offended by the defense of my religion.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
they are saving you by trying to bring you to Jesus, only Jesus can save you and your religion is a fraud.

I was born and raised Roman Catholic. I still belong to The Church. I've worn a gold cross around my neck for as long as I can remember. There's a crucifix on the wall in my bedroom.

Even that's not good enough for some people. Don't worry about it. I didn't know I folded laundry the wrong way, either, until I got married.

RJM-I don't have an issue with your post, but it has taken 21 pages of posts for you to reveal your bias. We all have them. I have not lived your life and you have not lived mine. I would never question the validity of yours.

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I'm as religiously tolerant as anyone...

To me, thats a joke. If you were tolerant, you would not be obsessed with attacking a player who gets down on one knee to pray to his God (why do you care?), you would not make sweeping statements about Catholics (in my 50+ years as a practicing Catholic I have never heard such slobber as you posted...do you commonly group an entire religion based on the irrational statements/actions of a very few?) and you would respect people for holding an honest opinion (religion based or not) that a pro-life viewpoint is a human rights issue that they are compelled to act on and not dismissed simply as a 'political' issue for many who hold it.

You are anything but tolerant in your posts throughout this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:

quote:

I'm as religiously tolerant as anyone...

To me, thats a joke. If you were tolerant, you would not be obsessed with attacking a player who gets down on one knee to pray to his God (why do you care?), you would not make sweeping statements about Catholics (in my 50+ years as a practicing Catholic I have never heard such slobber as you posted...do you commonly group an entire religion based on the irrational statements/actions of a very few?) and you would respect people for holding an honest opinion (religion based or not) that a pro-life viewpoint is a human rights issue that they are compelled to act on and not dismissed simply as a 'political' issue for many who hold it.

You are anything but tolerant in your posts throughout this thread.

I'll tell you want's a joke. You just judged me based on what you believe is my view on abortion. I didn't state my view. I only posted where I felt it's inappropriate to state that view ... the Super Bowl and using his college football fame as a platform to do so. As for the Catholic Church statement you may want to do a little research on when the Vatican apologized for the accusation. It's well within my lifetime.

You're also turning my points into accusations against other religious organizations. They are not. They are truths in what I have dealt with in my lifetime. It's just a small sampling. Most of the time I could only shake my head and keep moving. I've found there are Christians who are completely clueless in their lack of understanding of what other people have been through. That was the point of my post.

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You just judged me based on what you believe is my view on abortion

I most certainly did not. Did you now make an assumption about my view? I commented on your simplistic view that its merely a 'political' issue to Tebow and others (perhaps on both sides of the debate)... I commented that you don't seem to respect that its a far deeper-than-politics issue to many.

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As for the Catholic Church statement you may want to do a little research on when the Vatican apologized for the accusation. It's well within my lifetime.

Within my lifetime I've had some Christians tell me that as a Catholic, I am not a Christian. I disagree (strongly) with their view, but I don't post...grouping them all into one...over 22 pages of a baseball website. I don't root against them in football games. I don't dislike them. I don't judge them...thats not my place. We just happen to disagree on something.

I have also witnessed an ugly side of racism, firsthand, growing up in the South in the 60s...it doesn't cause me to group people from the South into one, doesn't cause me to rant, dislike or stereotype southern people on a message board. Generally, I like them and will give (more) credit to people who aren't so stubborn that they hang onto old ideas and ways for 50 years.

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You're also turning my points into accusations against other religious organizations. They are not....

Sounded like it to me...over and over in this thread. But maybe I'm wrong?

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I've found there are Christians who are completely clueless in their lack of understanding of what other people have been through.

Generally speaking, it would be true that if a person has not walked in another's shoes, they would not fully understand. But clueless? I don't think so. I think you're clueless in how your posts about the whole religion angle to Tim Tebow are being taken by a number of people. To me, you sound very intolerant of him...and others you group with him.

quote:

I'll probably get a PM from Julie (MN-MOM) over this post. Maybe this will be the time she kicks me off the board.

I am far from a fundamentalist, have not complained to Julie, but I think this is an idea worth consideration.

Wow, stop looking at the boards for a couple days and I missed the start of the holy war.

Great column in the Washington Post on Tebow yesterday by a guy that has spent a lot of time with him and confirms he has one persona-public, private, no matter. Just a fine young man with sincere beliefs.

Also in the Post an article about Rothlisberger, describing how he came from a religious family background, had some well-publicized strays way over the line, but has turned his life around and returned to his roots. His "rest of the story" is not as well known as Tebow's but worth a read.


Tebow got the job done yesterday, despite overwhelming expectations by the media to the contrary. Good for him. My wife and I jumped up and high fived when DT crossed the goal line in overtime. Pretty exciting stuff. Will Denver repeat next week? They've got a steep uphill climb but nobody will say it's impossible.

Go Broncs! (and I'm a 49er fan)

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Just don't push your tree on me. I am offended when my religion is denounced in the name of having another religion put in my face as better for me.

I'll probably get a PM from Julie (MN-MOM) over this post. Maybe this will be the time she kicks me off the board. There are fundamentalists on this site who complain to her every time I make these kinds of posts. They so refuse to accept there are other acceptible religions that don't embrace Jesus they are offended by the defense of my religion

Simply, "an unbelievable couple of statements." I'm trying to understand what would make you say these things and can't conclude anything that makes sense other than you are speaking to the WRONG FORUM.

I second your suggestion of censorship!

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:

quote:

You just judged me based on what you believe is my view on abortion

I most certainly did not. Did you now make an assumption about my view? I commented on your simplistic view that its merely a 'political' issue to Tebow and others (perhaps on both sides of the debate)... I commented that you don't seem to respect that its a far deeper-than-politics issue to many.

quote:

As for the Catholic Church statement you may want to do a little research on when the Vatican apologized for the accusation. It's well within my lifetime.

Within my lifetime I've had some Christians tell me that as a Catholic, I am not a Christian. I disagree (strongly) with their view, but I don't post...grouping them all into one...over 22 pages of a baseball website. I don't root against them in football games. I don't dislike them. I don't judge them...thats not my place. We just happen to disagree on something.

I have also witnessed an ugly side of racism, firsthand, growing up in the South in the 60s...it doesn't cause me to group people from the South into one, doesn't cause me to rant, dislike or stereotype southern people on a message board. Generally, I like them and will give (more) credit to people who aren't so stubborn that they hang onto old ideas and ways for 50 years.

quote:

You're also turning my points into accusations against other religious organizations. They are not....

Sounded like it to me...over and over in this thread. But maybe I'm wrong?

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I've found there are Christians who are completely clueless in their lack of understanding of what other people have been through.

Generally speaking, it would be true that if a person has not walked in another's shoes, they would not fully understand. But clueless? I don't think so. I think you're clueless in how your posts about the whole religion angle to Tim Tebow are being taken by a number of people. To me, you sound very intolerant of him...and others you group with him.

1) When Tebow was overtly using football to promote his religion it bothered me. As I mentioned in a previous post he's toned it down. It doesn't bother me anymore. 2) I still don't believe in Tebow as an NFL starting quarterback. He has too many flaws. There were four plays yesterday where his flaws did not interfere. A quarterback is not going to survive in the NFL if success means having to complete four bombs per game while completely lacking the touch required to have a middle and short game.

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When Tebow was overtly using football to promote his religion it bothered me. As I mentioned in a previous post he's toned it down. It doesn't bother me anymore.

If he has toned it down and it doesn't bother you any more, why can't you let it go? Why does his success, or lack of failure bother you so much.

I can't stand Lebron James...so I ignore him. I don't spend one minute thinking about him or his game, except when he enters screenshots of DWade...who I like. If Lebron hits a game winner, hits 70 in a night or gets shut out, it makes no difference to me.

Why can't you just be happy for a guy that toned it down, works hard, handles himself well, has some success and has turned his dream into reality?

Unfreaking believable, a scripture reference on eyeblack by a college kid is reason to hate. My son had a scripture reference on the back of his shoe and on the under side of his bill in college and in the minors, NOBODY complained. Tebow happened to be a star so that makes it wrong?
The reasons and excuses, wild explanations for 8 wins etc are just getting crazier. We really don't give a rats behind if he's a QB next year. We're just happy for the kid for the unbelievable run of luck he's already had this year. We don't give a rats behind why he got so lucky, or what anyone is predicting for him next year. He was part of something special in Denver this year and last night REGARDLESS of what happens next WEEK or next year.
So what if the planets aligned an unbelievable 8 time this year and pretty much his whole life as a football player. I'm still happy for the kid.
And I'm tired of internet bullies...

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

quote:

Seriously, like pretty much every win Denver has had since "he" took over, can you honestly say that there were NO extenuating circumstances and that he faced the same version of those teams that other teams faced all year? REALLY???

"You are what your results say you are", is how the saying goes. As a Cowboys' fan, I would love to have extenuating circumstances wins and still be in the playoffs.

Uh huh. And Trent Dilfer's a better QB than Dan Marino because Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Right. Gotcha.

To tune out Tebow I would have to lock the doors and pull the plugs. Today some wackadoodle called the local sports talk radio show saying Tebow was sent from God to deliver us all to Christianity. His evidence was he passed for 316 yards yesterday. If Brees passes for 666 yards does that mean he's the devil?

Politically I'm to the right. I can't go to any right wing news site without seeing uber praise for Tebow. It's way over the top.

I don't see the fuss. There are plenty of better quarterbacks. There are plenty of religious professional athletes. There are plenty of athletes living clean lives. There are plenty of former Heisman trophy winners. What is Tebow doing that hasn't been done before that deserves all the hype? He's getting way too much credit for wins mostly led by the defense and miscues by the opposition against mediocre or injured competition.

Is Trent Dilfer a stud quarterback. Afterall he was a stud throwing college quarterback and high first round choice. He was the quarterback the second half of the season when the Ravens went 7-1 and then won the Super Bowl. I recollect it was said the Ravens expected Dilfer to not make mistakes and won inspite of him.

quote:

Uh huh. And Trent Dilfer's a better QB than Dan Marino because Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Right. Gotcha.

The team is what their record says they are. All the excuses net out over time.

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My son had a scripture reference on the back of his shoe and on the under side of his bill in college and in the minors, NOBODY complained.

Did your son wave it in the face of the national media and change the scripture every week once he knew he had their attention? Did your son use his fame on the field to inject a religious/political ad into the Super Bowl? When your son hit a homer did he kneel and pray at the plate for twenty seconds so all the world could know he's using his sport as a platform for religion? No, your son's experience was a personal experience. It's the way it should be.

quote:

I'll probably get a PM from Julie (MN-MOM) over this post. Maybe this will be the time she kicks me off the board.

Someone...anyone, please shut this thread.
How many more bandwidth charges need to accrue to Julie to go over, and over, and over how and why RJM is offended?

quote:

Originally posted by dw8man:

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
ESPN talked about Elway calling Tebow into his office and challenging him this week. Supposedly they "took the handcuffs off Tebow" and "asked him to throw the ball down field". I would say young Mr. Tebow responded!

I find it very ironic he threw for 316........

John should be very proud!

That is just too ironic for me!

And I am with infielddad, this has got to end.