I heard a funny today....
Not since OJ Simpson has a white Bronco drawn so much attention.
That is what I would consider to be in poor taste.
Comparing a vicious murderer with a devout Christian has no place in decent polite discussions.
Comparing a vicious murderer with a devout Christian has no place in decent polite discussions.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
I heard a funny today....
Not since OJ Simpson has a white Bronco drawn so much attention.
Hee-hee...
Florida - lighten up; I think its very funny in terms of being about the ridiculous amount of media attention rather than attacking anyone's faith.
All I know is this:
quote:Originally posted by Eyeontheball:
Florida - lighten up; I think its very funny in terms of being about the ridiculous amount of media attention rather than attacking anyone's faith.
Plus, if one wanted to be literal, Elway got a lot of attention when he was going for Denver's (and his) redemption in the late '90s, making HIM the last white Bronco getting media attention.
I hate Gabe Wilkens.
quote:the last white Bronco getting media attention
Unless you count OJ's getaway car. I seem to recall that getting a lot of media attention at the time.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:quote:the last white Bronco getting media attention
Unless you count OJ's getaway car. I seem to recall that getting a lot of media attention at the time.
Don't worry, guys, I got this one...
That was the joke.
quote:I heard a funny today....
Not since OJ Simpson has a white Bronco drawn so much attention.
HA ha hilarious. That is one I will tell at work on Tuesday.
Well played RJM.
After the way Tebow has played the last few weeks, his HS option style of football won't cut it in the NFL. He can't pass the football and has a lousy arm. Finally, this Tebow stuff can finally die down now.
Even if the Broncos back in to playoffs, they'll never get past the first round.
Even if the Broncos back in to playoffs, they'll never get past the first round.
Zombie , I pray you are right , I have had enough of the tebow garbage . The guy can't throw to save his life and if a team stops the run , he is done .
There were replays showing open receivers. They were open by feet not yards. That's how it is in the NFL. A quarterback has to be able to snap and zip the ball. Tebow winds up. And he throws floaters.
Tebow also holds on to the ball too long. His sack to pass attempts sack ratio is the worst in the NFL by a significant amount. When he scambles out of the pocket he has no plan now that defenses play contain on the outside.
All it takes to play Tebow is man to man defense and contain on the outside with the pass rush. I'm concerned with what the Steelers could do to Tom Brady. They'll kill Tebow. Ever since the Bronoos got to first place and the visibility and pressure on Tebow increased .... all he did was lose.
Tebow also holds on to the ball too long. His sack to pass attempts sack ratio is the worst in the NFL by a significant amount. When he scambles out of the pocket he has no plan now that defenses play contain on the outside.
All it takes to play Tebow is man to man defense and contain on the outside with the pass rush. I'm concerned with what the Steelers could do to Tom Brady. They'll kill Tebow. Ever since the Bronoos got to first place and the visibility and pressure on Tebow increased .... all he did was lose.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
All it takes to play Tebow is man to man defense
That, right there, is the death knell for an NFL QB.
I think your analysis is correct RJM. It was an ugly game to watch, I would have liked to see more pass attempts, even if they resulted in turnovers.
Tebow needs to make some dramatic changes to survive to play another season.
Tebow needs to make some dramatic changes to survive to play another season.
I'm a Tebow fan but I have to agree with the prognostications for the Steelers game. It promises to be an ugly day for the Broncos, on offense at least. If they don't get a pick 6 or something they may not score at all.
I think if you're a Broncos fan you have to be content for now with the fact that what started out as a 1-4 team went on a 7-4 run, generated some excitement and made the playoffs. And then you have to see how Tebow looks when he comes to preseason in August. He'll have to improve to hold his job long term.
But then, the same could be said for Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez, Christian Ponder, or a half dozen other struggling young QB's. All of them get less attention overall but seem more highly regarded by the experts. And yet all of them are pretty much where Tebow is -- needing to get better to hold his job long term.
If it were like baseball, they'd all be in AA or AAA ball trying to prove they were ready for the big time. Instead, they have to learn on the job at the highest level in the sport.
The one thing that's promising for Tebow is, he doesn't figure to get gun shy from a few sacks or hits here and there. In the case of, e.g., Bradford, you wonder if he'll ever get comfortable in the pocket after these years of feeling like he has to dodge oncoming trains on every snap.
I think if you're a Broncos fan you have to be content for now with the fact that what started out as a 1-4 team went on a 7-4 run, generated some excitement and made the playoffs. And then you have to see how Tebow looks when he comes to preseason in August. He'll have to improve to hold his job long term.
But then, the same could be said for Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez, Christian Ponder, or a half dozen other struggling young QB's. All of them get less attention overall but seem more highly regarded by the experts. And yet all of them are pretty much where Tebow is -- needing to get better to hold his job long term.
If it were like baseball, they'd all be in AA or AAA ball trying to prove they were ready for the big time. Instead, they have to learn on the job at the highest level in the sport.
The one thing that's promising for Tebow is, he doesn't figure to get gun shy from a few sacks or hits here and there. In the case of, e.g., Bradford, you wonder if he'll ever get comfortable in the pocket after these years of feeling like he has to dodge oncoming trains on every snap.
After watching the Broncos for the past month only I can see is that they aren't a very good team period no matter who is quarterbacking. I think they had success with Tebow because they were able to catch teams off guard with the more spread offense. Once teams were able to see them play 4 or 5 games in that offense they were able to plan for them. You can guarantee the NFL is one place where they will be prepared for anything because the coordinators don't like to change. So even if a team gets a new OC all you have to do is go back to who they coached before (or what coaching tree) and you will have a great headstart in preparing to defend them.
Tebow does have flaws but he is working to fix them. The biggest flaw is the windup motion and that might be the biggest thing which keeps him from being an NFL QB. Tebow is smart so he will learn how to read coverages and the other cereberal parts of the game but he has to fix his flaws.
Like Midlo pointed out - Tebow isn't the only one suffering but he is the one in the spotlight the most. I think Bradford and Sanchez are going to be huge busts. Bradford because of PTSD and Sanchez should have stayed at USC one more year.
I guess the two main questions are if Tebow is not going to pan out as an NFL QB 1) when does he start working at another position and 2) what position does he try to learn?
Overall the Broncos just aren't a very good team.
Tebow does have flaws but he is working to fix them. The biggest flaw is the windup motion and that might be the biggest thing which keeps him from being an NFL QB. Tebow is smart so he will learn how to read coverages and the other cereberal parts of the game but he has to fix his flaws.
Like Midlo pointed out - Tebow isn't the only one suffering but he is the one in the spotlight the most. I think Bradford and Sanchez are going to be huge busts. Bradford because of PTSD and Sanchez should have stayed at USC one more year.
I guess the two main questions are if Tebow is not going to pan out as an NFL QB 1) when does he start working at another position and 2) what position does he try to learn?
Overall the Broncos just aren't a very good team.
Troy Aikman was 0-11 his first year, the next year he got help from some guy named Emmitt.
quote:Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:
Troy Aikman was 0-11 his first year, the next year he got help from some guy named Emmitt.
And a dominating offensive line.
quote:I guess the two main questions are if Tebow is not going to pan out as an NFL QB 1) when does he start working at another position and 2) what position does he try to learn?
He would be a great coach...if he wants to work 18 hour days.
Dick Lebow (Steelers Def Coordinator) will show us all of Denver's offensive warts this Saturday. Lebow is arguably the best defensive coordinator in the League. Lebow has the talent, and he very rarely gets beat. I don't see Tebow matching up well with this scenario. Tebow simply doesn't have the experience or skills at this point in his career. The only way Denver wins is if they play conservative with the ball, don't make mistakes, and get very, very lucky.
quote:Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
The only way Denver wins is if they play conservative with the ball, don't make mistakes, and get very, very lucky.
And yet the hapless Browns were in the game until the very last second.
And yet a QB described as incompetent on a bad team is in the playoffs...same place 20 other teams wish they were. <= that's Tebow smiling 
<= that's Tebow smiling 
It won't take too many games like Sunday's passing game for his teammates as well as his coaches to lose confidence in him, no matter what kind of leader he is. You can't win for long in the NFL like that.
When Tebow played at Florida the program recruited the best of the best players available. He doesn't have that luxury in the NFL. In college receivers get open by yards. Any quarterback with time to throw can hit a receiver open by yards. Even Tebow proved he could do it in the NFL when teams went deep cover two prevent zone at the end of games.
Phil Simms showed some replays that nets out Tebow's biggest flaw. This flaw is exacerbated by his mechanics. Tebow can't hit receivers on the break. He has no sense of timing in his passing. The reason he can't is his footwork and windup release. His lack of a snap release eliminates the slant pass. The short slant takes the blitz away from the defense. The deep slant is a "break one tackle and you're gone for six" play.
Then there's reading defenses. The word is Tebow can't get past one read before taking off. He has zero pocket presense. He has no sense of how long he's been in the pocket. He has no sense of side stepping the rush. He just takes off. With the controlled, contain rush on the outside he has nowhere to go. Teams aren't allowing Tebow to roll out left anymore and get the corner stuck in no man's land between him and the receiver.
During the Broncos run they beat some mediocre teams. By the time the season was over they couldn't beat the mediocre teams. Here's the Broncos schedule for next year outside their division: Steelers, Ravens, Bengals, Browns, Saints, Falcons, Panthers, Buccaneers, Patriots and Texans. I figure Tebow is benched by midseason.
The Broncos need look at free agent Matt Flynn of the Packers. He's started two games in his career and played very well against the Lions and Patriots. If Jake Locker is the future of the Titans Hasselbeck might be available. What about Vince Young. He's erratic in his talent and mental state. But he's Tebow with an arm.
I believe when the Broncos went with Tebow it was to join the $uck for Luck competition. They screwed up.
Phil Simms showed some replays that nets out Tebow's biggest flaw. This flaw is exacerbated by his mechanics. Tebow can't hit receivers on the break. He has no sense of timing in his passing. The reason he can't is his footwork and windup release. His lack of a snap release eliminates the slant pass. The short slant takes the blitz away from the defense. The deep slant is a "break one tackle and you're gone for six" play.
Then there's reading defenses. The word is Tebow can't get past one read before taking off. He has zero pocket presense. He has no sense of how long he's been in the pocket. He has no sense of side stepping the rush. He just takes off. With the controlled, contain rush on the outside he has nowhere to go. Teams aren't allowing Tebow to roll out left anymore and get the corner stuck in no man's land between him and the receiver.
During the Broncos run they beat some mediocre teams. By the time the season was over they couldn't beat the mediocre teams. Here's the Broncos schedule for next year outside their division: Steelers, Ravens, Bengals, Browns, Saints, Falcons, Panthers, Buccaneers, Patriots and Texans. I figure Tebow is benched by midseason.
The Broncos need look at free agent Matt Flynn of the Packers. He's started two games in his career and played very well against the Lions and Patriots. If Jake Locker is the future of the Titans Hasselbeck might be available. What about Vince Young. He's erratic in his talent and mental state. But he's Tebow with an arm.
I believe when the Broncos went with Tebow it was to join the $uck for Luck competition. They screwed up.
What a great young man, the naysayers rip him every chance they get but he doesn't seem to have a bad thing to say about anyone, just goes out and plays his guts out. He has a winning record in 2011 in the NFL, not bad for a kid some said would NEVER play a game at qb in the NFL
Did they win because of him or despite him? Hard to say.
quote:Originally posted by Three Bagger:
Did they win because of him or despite him? Hard to say.
You can say that about every QB....many of whom are also in the playoffs. Innocent Bystander said it best...."the naysayers rip him every chance they get but he doesn't seem to have a bad thing to say about anyone, just goes out and plays his guts out". We need more people like that.
Without a defense holding the opposition to low scores none of the miracle against mediocre teams would have been possible. Whatever Tebow lent to winning is over due to adjustments made by opponents. Not being able to beat the Bills and Chiefs is a major statement on the State of the Tebow.quote:Originally posted by Three Bagger:
Did they win because of him or despite him? Hard to say.
Three weeks ago a Denver sportswriter stated Tebow is the fifth best quarterback in the NFL. He said after Tebow beats Brady he will have proven he's better than Brady. LOL! There was way to much hype for a few weeks. I believe I posted a few weeks ago the fall will be hard.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
Not being able to beat the Bills and Chiefs is a major statement on the State of the Tebow.
.
This strikes me as blatant bigotry...
Let's see how he does against Palomalu and Harrison before we put him in the HOF . He is not an NFL QB . Sorry
quote:Originally posted by Tom Dorminy:
Let's see how he does against Palomalu and Harrison before we put him in the HOF . He is not an NFL QB . Sorry
I really doubt that your son or mine will end up in the Hall of Fame either, but if they even were to make it to the pro level I would certainly hope they wouldn't be trashed and bad mouthed for doing the best they could. Tebow isn't doing what he does for attention, he does it because he believes it's the RIGHT thing. If your son or mine is so reviled for doing the best they know how, I certainly hope there are a few Americans that will stand for Freedom and respect others beliefs.
At this point and time he IS an NFL QB, I don't know if he will be next year, I'm just taking the wait and see approach. I respect what he has done this year and in college as well. I wasn't really a fan of his but it really bothers me to see some of the hate that is out there towards what I believe is a great kid who does so much for his fellow humans outside of sports.
His short life to this point puts mine to shame, and I'm a grandfather of 4.
The thread was started with positive things to say about a young man, I was taught that if you don't have something good to say about somebody, then keep your mouth shut.
Who really is the better person here, the people who continue to say negative things about a young man doing the best he knows how, or the young man in question who doesn't seem to have anything bad to say about anyone else.
Opinions are fine, mockery and hatred cross the line in my opinion.
Have you seen next year's schedule. Outside the division: Ravens, Steelers, Bengals, Browns, Saints, Falcons, Panthers, Buccaneers, Patriots and Texans.quote:Originally posted by Tom Dorminy:
Let's see how he does against Palomalu and Harrison before we put him in the HOF . He is not an NFL QB . Sorry
I say he's not the starter by midseason. That is if the Broncos don't go after Matt Flynn (he's a free agent) or Matt Hasselback (if Locker is going to start in TN) to start until a young quarterback is developed.
So innocent , if I am rooting for the Steelers I can't trash talk ? The kid is a good role model , of that I have no doubt , but he is just a person , like you or me . All i'm saying is - let's see how he does when Troy and James are chasing his butt this weekend . RJM , I agree , but don't talk bad of him . They are already questioning if he will be qb next year ,
The Broncos front office has to asking themselves what they do next year. But given today's roster it starts with Tebow. Brady Quinn would have to come a long way to start. They have a rookie quarterback Adam Weber who had a good camp. If the Broncos can't come up with a solution for next season they're better off playing Tebow and $ucking For Barkley.quote:Originally posted by Tom Dorminy:
So innocent , if I am rooting for the Steelers I can't trash talk ? The kid is a good role model , of that I have no doubt , but he is just a person , like you or me . All i'm saying is - let's see how he does when Troy and James are chasing his butt this weekend . RJM , I agree , but don't talk bad of him . They are already questioning if he will be qb next year ,
Innocent ... With excessive praise and credit for his football abilities comes citicism with the fall. I prefer to seperate the on the field player and the off the field player. I don't care what a player does in his life that doesn't relate to the game unless he's my neighbor. I've had an insufferable, inconsiderate pro athlete neighbor. I've had others who are very nice people (one was a woman). Being a good person as a pro athlete is a plus not a requirement. Besides, many pro athletes do great things in their communities.
I had issues with Tebow using the football field as a platform for pushing his religious views. He's toned it down either because Kurt Warner had a talk with him or he hasn't won since he toned it down. I wonder if Goodell had Warner call Tebow.
From a pro football standpoint I've never bought into Tebow. I laughed when he got so much credit for the Broncos winning. I knew adjustments would be made to neuter what the Broncos were doing. The first game I was talking to the television asking why the defense was allowing him to roll left. Now no one allows him to roll left. He won't the first college stud to fail at the pro level. Regarding stud Florida quarterbacks he'll have to get in line.
We spend a lot of time on this board, when discussing kid's high school and college baseball prospects telling them to put aside statistics and focus on mechanics, attitude and effort. Tebow has the attitude and effort. He lacks the mechanics. A bigger issue is he can't read defenses. That can only be learned by playing in games. It can't be learned in the offseason.
"Tebow isn't doing what he does for attention, he does it because he believes it's the RIGHT thing."
Tebow brought all this attention on himself with the scriptures on the eye black and his post game interviews. He drew attention to himself. There are people who disagree with his belief he should push his religion on others. It also doesn't help when people tell the football disbelievers they don't like Tebow because they are liberals and hate God.
I had issues with Tebow using the football field as a platform for pushing his religious views. He's toned it down either because Kurt Warner had a talk with him or he hasn't won since he toned it down. I wonder if Goodell had Warner call Tebow.
From a pro football standpoint I've never bought into Tebow. I laughed when he got so much credit for the Broncos winning. I knew adjustments would be made to neuter what the Broncos were doing. The first game I was talking to the television asking why the defense was allowing him to roll left. Now no one allows him to roll left. He won't the first college stud to fail at the pro level. Regarding stud Florida quarterbacks he'll have to get in line.
We spend a lot of time on this board, when discussing kid's high school and college baseball prospects telling them to put aside statistics and focus on mechanics, attitude and effort. Tebow has the attitude and effort. He lacks the mechanics. A bigger issue is he can't read defenses. That can only be learned by playing in games. It can't be learned in the offseason.
"Tebow isn't doing what he does for attention, he does it because he believes it's the RIGHT thing."
Tebow brought all this attention on himself with the scriptures on the eye black and his post game interviews. He drew attention to himself. There are people who disagree with his belief he should push his religion on others. It also doesn't help when people tell the football disbelievers they don't like Tebow because they are liberals and hate God.
"He is not an NFL QB . Sorry"
I would agree he has a long way to go to cement his role as a starter, much less as a star.
But look around the NFL. This past Sunday, teams started such bright lights as Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Tavaris Jackson, and many others of comparable caliber. Not to mention, some of the supposed stars aren't exactly living up to their billing (see Tony Romo).
I think the Broncos are in a position where they can afford to give him a shot and see how it all comes out in the long term. But I also agree that, if Matt Flinn becomes available, Elway might just jump at the chance to get an instant upgrade. Just as KC did with Matt Cassell a few years back. (But then, Cassell hasn't started in quite a while, so even if the Broncos get someone else, Tebow would be just one nasty hit away from taking snaps. In the NFL that's almost a guarantee of playing time.)
I would agree he has a long way to go to cement his role as a starter, much less as a star.
But look around the NFL. This past Sunday, teams started such bright lights as Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Tavaris Jackson, and many others of comparable caliber. Not to mention, some of the supposed stars aren't exactly living up to their billing (see Tony Romo).
I think the Broncos are in a position where they can afford to give him a shot and see how it all comes out in the long term. But I also agree that, if Matt Flinn becomes available, Elway might just jump at the chance to get an instant upgrade. Just as KC did with Matt Cassell a few years back. (But then, Cassell hasn't started in quite a while, so even if the Broncos get someone else, Tebow would be just one nasty hit away from taking snaps. In the NFL that's almost a guarantee of playing time.)
None of these guys came out of college overrated. None of them have been overrated and nationally heralded as pros. Grossman, Dlehomme and Jackson are journey quarterbacks. Delhome was home watching football last month. The question with Romo isn't can he play the position. The question is can he win the big games. The quarterback I'm surprised you didn't mention is Mark Sanchez. The Jets have been carrying him for three years. Sanchez has the tools. He just tends to miss seeing important things downfield, like defenders.quote:But look around the NFL. This past Sunday, teams started such bright lights as Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Tavaris Jackson, and many others of comparable caliber. Not to mention, some of the supposed stars aren't exactly living up to their billing (see Tony Romo).
There are people who believe Tebow will succeed because of his mental toughness, his will and his faith. What they are overlooking is very few players got to the NFL on talent alone. Almost all have mental toughness and the will. Many have the faith. Check near the fifty yard line when the game ends.
I believe Tebow does have a future in the NFL but as a TE or Fullback , I would never question his effort but don't push your beliefs on me .
Tebow has had some stinkers the last couple weeks. He's not among the best passers in the game, never was. The Chiefs, if I remember correctly shut out the best QB in the league for the first half and then won the only game the Packers lost this year. Their defense was really good late in the year.
Still Tebow has played poorly the last couple games. Maybe he won't last long as an NFL QB, but then again, who would have bet that he would take over as a QB of a 1-4 team and win 6 out of the next 7 and make the playoffs? His impact on this football season is obvious, just look at the 18 pages in this thread on a HS baseball site.
If he never wins another game as a pro QB, he displays many characteristics that set a great example for our youth (even in defeat). I think sometimes it's just the religious thing that upsets some people, because everything else about his character seems outstanding.
People who think he will fail as a QB and that he lacks the mechanics or skills to be a good passer, might be correct. To be honest I also doubt his passing ability, but would never bet against this kid. I'm convinced that there's something special about Tim Tebow and it goes way beyond football. I will continue to pull for him because of the example he sets. I think he is good, make that great, for the game.
Still Tebow has played poorly the last couple games. Maybe he won't last long as an NFL QB, but then again, who would have bet that he would take over as a QB of a 1-4 team and win 6 out of the next 7 and make the playoffs? His impact on this football season is obvious, just look at the 18 pages in this thread on a HS baseball site.
If he never wins another game as a pro QB, he displays many characteristics that set a great example for our youth (even in defeat). I think sometimes it's just the religious thing that upsets some people, because everything else about his character seems outstanding.
People who think he will fail as a QB and that he lacks the mechanics or skills to be a good passer, might be correct. To be honest I also doubt his passing ability, but would never bet against this kid. I'm convinced that there's something special about Tim Tebow and it goes way beyond football. I will continue to pull for him because of the example he sets. I think he is good, make that great, for the game.
I believe Tebow could be a situational quarterback at best. But what NFL starter wants to be yanked so his backup can get the team in the end zone or the first down? It's a college strategy. It's what Tebow did freshman year at Florida.
I don't think anyone questions Tebow's work ethic and positive attitude. But I'd prefer a quarterback who closes down bars, can read defenses and throw a twenty-five yard laser on my team over Tebow's skills. I'll take Tebow as my neighbor.
I don't think anyone questions Tebow's work ethic and positive attitude. But I'd prefer a quarterback who closes down bars, can read defenses and throw a twenty-five yard laser on my team over Tebow's skills. I'll take Tebow as my neighbor.