Nice work 2019. And I will add as I have in the past that I have personally gunned D2, D3 & NAIA kids in game and it is not rare to see cruising velocities in the upper 70's and low 80's.  With PG and others starting to focus more on spin rate and spin axis the entire face of recruiting will change. Kids in the 90's will always be in demand. But instead of the kid throwing 86 with average spin you may see more kids throwing 82 with very low or high spin (more likely low).  Technology is changing the way we look at baseball. Now if only the dinosaur coaches who still resist it would step aside!  Disclaimer: not a knock on age - I am an old guy but smart enough to know these physics guys and tech guys are smarter than me!

Great research 2019DAD, very valuable.  My son had the opportunity to play with & against many of these guys in HS and with Trosky Baseball.   Many of these guys are >6'4" and have unique mechanics which lead to incredibly smooth deliveries & ball movement from out of nowhere.  This is just from my limited observation & i am not an expert on delivery or mechanics. But what I do know from experience....(Son was actively recruited by 10 of above schools)  Velocity gets you noticed and on a College Roster for Fall Ball freshman year.  But, that is only the beginning my friends.   The ability to transition to the college level in the classroom and  daily time management (with am weight training, class, practice & studying & eating if you want to gain weight) and MOVEMENT OF THE BALL & ability to paint the corners of the Zone gets you on the Spring College Roster ~ when it really matters. Once there, having the ability to keep up with class when you are traveling & off campus the first 20 of 25 days of the season AND staying healthy keeps you on the mound!

Of the 22 Freshman on son's Roster from Fall of 2014, only 12 remain in 2016

Velocity will still be an easy disqualifier.  I think you will see the same guys with high velocity recruited the way they have always been recruited with spin rate as something that is teachable.  Why waste time teaching spin to someone with low velocity when you can teach it to someone with high velocity.  Velocity is going up not down. Spin rate is nothing new, it's just getting some recognition.

2019DAD, Wow, that is a lot of information and must have taken a fair amount of time and effort. 

Taking one pitcher on your list, Nelson from Trinity U, he was in his junior year when I saw him pitch in late February and talked with the coaches about him.

I saw him in  one inning relief appearances. He was 91-92 with a dominant breaking ball, which he also threw very hard. At points during the season, I understand he touched 93.

infielddad posted:

2019DAD, Wow, that is a lot of information and must have taken a fair amount of time and effort. 

Taking one pitcher on your list, Nelson from Trinity U, he was in his junior year when I saw him pitch in late February and talked with the coaches about him.

I saw him in  one inning relief appearances. He was 91-92 with a dominant breaking ball, which he also threw very hard. At points during the season, I understand he touched 93.

Thanks, infielddad. Yes, it took some time. My son is just at the point where he's gathering a list -- a long list -- of possible schools. This is just part of the information base. The hard part is knowing where a 15-year-old sophomore is going to end up!  

2forU posted:

Velocity will still be an easy disqualifier.  I think you will see the same guys with high velocity recruited the way they have always been recruited with spin rate as something that is teachable.  Why waste time teaching spin to someone with low velocity when you can teach it to someone with high velocity.  Velocity is going up not down. Spin rate is nothing new, it's just getting some recognition.

With all due respect I am not sure where you get your info. Even Kyle boddy on here has recently said we are still struggling to find ways to teach spin rate. If it is so easy why don't pitchers just do it??  And spin rate is pretty new actually. Not sure what you consider new but it's certainly come into its own over last few years. That's pretty new to me. And there have always been 'sneaky fast' guys. We just know why now. And so now they can be identified and recruited. I agree big velocity will always be in demand. But if you read my post I don't compare the 95 guy to the 82 guy.  I compare the 86 guy to the 82 guy. Big difference. There are tons of mid 80's guys in D1 ball. Some even cruising lower 80's. Certainly not a stretch to say they will start considering low 80's guys with unusual spin rate/axis

"My son is just at the point where he's gathering a list -- a long list -- of possible schools. This is just part of the information base. The hard part is knowing where a 15-year-old sophomore is going to end up!  "

Where he ends up is sort of the beginning, even though I fully agree with you that, at his age, it seems like an "end."

My impression is you are getting a pretty good grasp of things. Because I assumed you put in plenty of time and effort, I felt it important to post (I have pretty much stopped posting.)

What I hoped to communicate with the velocity comparison for the Trinity pitcher was how much change there can be (and usually needs to be) with many  players from a point in time in HS into mid-point of a college career.

Having talked with a number of college coaches, and being the Father of one who coached in college, that, to me, it a major difference in how situations are viewed from the player/parents perspective as contrasted with college coaches (other than that top 3-5%)

No matter how hard we try as parents, it is problematic for us to understand how much better our son's need to be to compete once they get beyond HS. (again, leaving out that top tier of players who have challenges but perhaps different ones in many ways at top tier programs.)

Because they succeed or fail on the ability to project a player they see at age 16-17, some college coaches truly have skills in seeing that HS junior or senior and projecting where they can get with good coaching and a ton of hard work by the player. It is that gap, and all the hard work needed, which  makes me cringe when a parent of a recruit posts and indicates their son will be getting playing time as a freshman in college.

Good luck to you and your son along the pathway.  I know the end/beginning seems like a long way off.  It isn't.

IF Dad  "No matter how hard we try as parents, it is problematic for us to understand how much better our son's need to be to compete once they get beyond HS. (again, leaving out that top tier of players who have challenges but perhaps different ones in many ways at top tier programs.)"

Ain't that the truth!  With my only baseball player now a HS senior, I am following former teammates and opponents who are in freshman through junior years of college.  Especially among the pitchers it's astounding how many kids who were really, really tough at-bats in HS have struggled mightily in college. There are a few who go the the other way, but not many.

Also, 2019, I'd count on those numbers climbing.  For example the top incoming freshman RHP at Cal was throwing mid-upper 90's last spring, yet if you looked him up on PG you'd see him at 93 before senior year of HS.

JCG posted:

IF Dad  "No matter how hard we try as parents, it is problematic for us to understand how much better our son's need to be to compete once they get beyond HS. (again, leaving out that top tier of players who have challenges but perhaps different ones in many ways at top tier programs.)"

Ain't that the truth!  With my only baseball player now a HS senior, I am following former teammates and opponents who are in freshman through junior years of college.  Especially among the pitchers it's astounding how many kids who were really, really tough at-bats in HS have struggled mightily in college. There are a few who go the the other way, but not many.

Also, 2019, I'd count on those numbers climbing.  For example the top incoming freshman RHP at Cal was throwing mid-upper 90's last spring, yet if you looked him up on PG you'd see him at 93 before senior year of HS.

Yes, of course. Many, many of these kids threw harder their HS senior springs, and/or the summer after senior year of high school. And then when they got to college, too.

The perspective was a little different -- essentially, how hard do you have to throw to get recruited at X university? Since NLIs are largely signed in Nov. of senior year, I focused on the velo when they were rising seniors and senior fall (though I know that some of these kids may be walk-ons who didn't sign an NLI . . . ). 

Realistically, I would throw out the bottom one or two -- who knows what special circumstances may have led to an individual being on the roster? -- and then focus on the mid-point. Just by way of example, if your goal is Virginia, you probably need to be touching 91-92 senior fall . . . if your goal is William and Mary, more like 87-88 . . . But folks can use the information however they'd like (obviously). I just thought it might be useful to others.

Gotcha.

2019Dad posted:

JCG posted:

IF Dad  "No matter how hard we try as parents, it is problematic for us to understand how much better our son's need to be to compete once they get beyond HS. (again, leaving out that top tier of players who have challenges but perhaps different ones in many ways at top tier programs.)"

Ain't that the truth!  With my only baseball player now a HS senior, I am following former teammates and opponents who are in freshman through junior years of college.  Especially among the pitchers it's astounding how many kids who were really, really tough at-bats in HS have struggled mightily in college. There are a few who go the the other way, but not many.

Also, 2019, I'd count on those numbers climbing.  For example the top incoming freshman RHP at Cal was throwing mid-upper 90's last spring, yet if you looked him up on PG you'd see him at 93 before senior year of HS.

Yes, of course. Many, many of these kids threw harder their HS senior springs, and/or the summer after senior year of high school. And then when they got to college, too.

The perspective was a little different -- essentially, how hard do you have to throw to get recruited at X university? Since NLIs are largely signed in Nov. of senior year, I focused on the velo when they were rising seniors and senior fall (though I know that some of these kids may be walk-ons who didn't sign an NLI . . . ). 

Realistically, I would throw out the bottom one or two -- who knows what special circumstances may have led to an individual being on the roster? -- and then focus on the mid-point. Just by way of example, if your goal is Virginia, you probably need to be touching 91-92 senior fall . . . if your goal is William and Mary, more like 87-88 . . . But folks can use the information however they'd like (obviously). I just thought it might be useful to others.

That's a great snapshot of information.  And, yes, I think that is a good take-away.  In fact, i looked up the lowest velo pitcher listed and, sure enough, he is a low angle, knuckleballer.   Take guys like that away and you have HS kids throwing mostly from mid 80's to low 90's.  Those kids will most likely be throwing high 80's to mid 90's in college.  

Or, they will fail to continue gaining velo and will have to resort to other means to succeed.  Which is fine, but it sure as heck isn't something I would suggest a HS player try to do.  You can have all the movement in the world but the magic equation that is most effective at keeping hitters off balance is the combination of velo that is hard to catch up to along with secondary stuff that is considerably lower velo than the FB.   I don't see that changing any time soon.

"You can have all the movement in the world but the magic equation that is most effective at keeping hitters off balance is the combination of velo that is hard to catch up to along with secondary stuff that is considerably lower velo than the FB."

Cabbagedad,

As usual, very thoughtful and accurate reflection on how things can be so much different at the next level. If I could add  to your thought, it would be that, at the next level, those pitchers who succeed will command each of those pitches in most counts and then be able to adjust for the 2nd and 3rd time through the batting order. Without knowing more, I would have a  suspicion that some of those JCG sees struggling may not have command of their pitches, especially when college hitters make their adjustments.

Nice compilation.

I'd say any pitcher touching 88 with an ACT of 30 should call an Ivy coach.

Goosegg posted:

Nice compilation.

I'd say any pitcher touching 88 with an ACT of 30 should call an Ivy coach.

Eh, not so much anymore in our experience.

While most of the Ivy commitments this year can be seen on PG site (and there are some low SAT and ACT scores as low as 26), most scores much higher, and that's almost the low point of velocity now too.

Just been through the whole process and seen the Ivy coaches drool over RHP guys over 90, and ignore guys at 85-88.  We've seen effective guys who know how to pitch and sit high 80's passed over for guys who can't throw well, but throw a lot faster.  Having said that, Penn has 4 guys committed (they have way more than 4 commits this year) who are on PG as 88, but one is actually over 90 and has been for some time.  

Yale RC has said average ACT is 31.  So there are guys lower than that, but you'd have to be much much more of a stud then.

Just sayin' 

Twoboys posted:

Goosegg posted:

Nice compilation.

I'd say any pitcher touching 88 with an ACT of 30 should call an Ivy coach.

Eh, not so much anymore in our experience.

While most of the Ivy commitments this year can be seen on PG site (and there are some low SAT and ACT scores as low as 26), most scores much higher, and that's almost the low point of velocity now too.

Just been through the whole process and seen the Ivy coaches drool over RHP guys over 90, and ignore guys at 85-88.  We've seen effective guys who know how to pitch and sit high 80's passed over for guys who can't throw well, but throw a lot faster.  Having said that, Penn has 4 guys committed (they have way more than 4 commits this year) who are on PG as 88, but one is actually over 90 and has been for some time.  

Yale RC has said average ACT is 31.  So there are guys lower than that, but you'd have to be much much more of a stud then.

Just sayin'  

Twoboys, I just looked at PG for Penn and they only have two 2017 RHPs listed as committed (perhaps there are others not listed on PG?), both of whom have pitched at one or more PG events this summer -- one of the RHPs (Bollu) topped out at 85 in July (though last year touched 87), and the other RHP (Cerulle) topped out at 88 in one PG tournament this summer and 85 at the other PG tournament this summer. There's also a kid listed as a catcher who pitched in a PG tournament this summer (Sichley) and topped out at 88, so maybe he's been recruited as a pitcher?

I don't doubt that the Ivy coaches drool over RHPs who are over 90 (or that the Yale baseball team has an average ACT of 31) . . . That said, the data indicates that Goosegg is correct that the middle of the fairway is probably touching 88 as a rising senior/senior fall.

I think good D1 you generally Need to be at least Close to 90 or above but it also depends on the Organisation.

some organisations might value command, secondary stuff and not Walking guys more and others might value velocity and worry about refining the command later (often doesn't work but if it does there is a high reward).

Ideally you want both in a pitcher of course but those are rare.

I tried to find data for last year at Jupiter but failed. I liked the analysis of spin rates, both high and low with velocity and their correlation to college and pro ball. Lots of factors as mentioned by Journey above affect ability to actually PLAY in college and i've personally seen the mid to low 80's guys carve instead of the mid to high 90's guys.

http://www.baseballamerica.com...#8cMvZmHZYgIhEfBU.97

BTW wouldn't spin rate not help more on 4 seamers than two seamers?

backspin creates "rise" (actually it is just less drop) and for a two seamer you want drop. so spin rate might be more helpfull for a 4 seam pitcher who likes to pitch up in the Zone but not so helpful for a sinkerball pitcher who throws two seamers down in the Zone.

on curves and sliders of course the spin helps too because it increases the downward and lateral break.

Thank you for this. As the parent of a 2019 RHP, this is very interesting information to me as he starts his recruiting journey. One thing I'd love to know is- (and I'm not sure there would be any data to show this)  is there really some type of inverse relationship between velo and ACT/GPA for admittance at a given school, and what that spread might be for a more selective school.

Kilroy: when you use the term "selective," what type of school are you referring? For example, the University of San Diego has an average for admitted students which baseball players do not need to meet. There is way more latitude to admit a player to USD, then say, MIT.

USD is a fine school; but is not MIT.  

Coaches are not shy about laying out the required scores and grades; the player being recruited will be told whether he makes the academic cut or, if not, what he needs to do (e.g., retake SAT).

disclaimer here, my son is not a pitcher, and I know nothing about pitching.  One thing I have noticed in the last three years of watching kids he has played with is velo wasn't the whole story.   He plays with a RHP, 6-2, 190 that sits 86-88- I've seen the college recruiters guns.  Kid has had some interest, but not one offer.    This is a mystery to me.    Kid is a good athlete, two way player and swings the bat pretty good.  I do know that he was telling the other kids that it was D-1 or nothing- so I'm guessing he would have had an opportunity to play somewhere.  

Had another RHP that graduated last year- was 84-86, ended up going to a good D-3, he was 5-9, 155-160.   I have to believe in this case he just didn't project well.     he did end up being the number 1 starter for the d-3 he went to as a freshman, so it worked out well for him so far. 

My son is at a mid-major.  They have brought in 6 pitchers the past 2 seasons.  Their numbers would match up almost exactly with the mid-major numbers shown above if they were taken before their senior year.  5 of the 6 were throwing 90 by the summer after their senior year in HS.

IMO - if you expect to be in high demand (sophomore recruit type kid) as a pitcher you better be 90 plus or have a frame that projects it easily.

if you are comfortable as a stand by guy  (JR year recruit or SR summer) waiting for the higher velo's to shake out and then see what spots fall between the cracks - you can get by at the 88 range, slightly lower as a lefty but not much.

below 88 you aren't going to get the time of day from any D1 - I have watched many many pitchers in the 84-86 range just get people out repeatedly and there is little to none D1 interest for them.

KilroyJ posted:

Thank you for this. As the parent of a 2019 RHP, this is very interesting information to me as he starts his recruiting journey. One thing I'd love to know is- (and I'm not sure there would be any data to show this)  is there really some type of inverse relationship between velo and ACT/GPA for admittance at a given school, and what that spread might be for a more selective school.

There is a definite inverse relationship for 90% of D1 schools, however the "range" of that relationship at any given school depends on various factors.  I don't think there is a direct correlation (1 ACT point for each MPH above 90) as there are some basic minimums to be eligible  Let's say you are throwing 95 mph with command - a large Power 5 school might admit you assuming you are NCAA eligible (pretty low standards).  I think in football the relationship is greater - sort of like 1 GPA for each recruiting star.  Once you get that 5 star, folks don't seem to really care.

As you move up the academic scale, I would say there is still an inverse relationship however it does not move the needle as much - maybe move a kid from wait list (throwing 83 mph) to acceptance (throwing 89) but you still have to have some decent grades to begin with.

2019Dad posted:

 

Twoboys, I just looked at PG for Penn and they only have two 2017 RHPs listed as committed (perhaps there are others not listed on PG?), both of whom have pitched at one or more PG events this summer -- one of the RHPs (Bollu) topped out at 85 in July (though last year touched 87), and the other RHP (Cerulle) topped out at 88 in one PG tournament this summer and 85 at the other PG tournament this summer. There's also a kid listed as a catcher who pitched in a PG tournament this summer (Sichley) and topped out at 88, so maybe he's been recruited as a pitcher?

I don't doubt that the Ivy coaches drool over RHPs who are over 90 (or that the Yale baseball team has an average ACT of 31) . . . That said, the data indicates that Goosegg is correct that the middle of the fairway is probably touching 88 as a rising senior/senior fall.

Bollu was hurt last spring didn't pitch entire school season and had limited in the summer. anyone who has seen him knows he is a 90 guy waiting to happen. the 87 mph he has listed was summer of 2015.

This gets frustrating for me i must admit.   No matter how many kids i have gunned personally or how much data 2019 or anyone else presents it keeps getting back to the myth that you have to be a 90's guy or very close.  Its simply not true.  We cant play loose and ignore the facts.  As my disclaimer my son is not any kind of prospect at this point.  2019's kid is for sure.  But it has nothing to do with whether my kid or anyone else's is good enough for 'the next level'.  Its just an undeniable fact that most these kids were NOT 90's guys during their rising senior summer.  Yes many may become 90's guys in college but that is not the debate here.  The debate is what does it take to GET to the next level.  Not be a star there, not even play four years or anything else.  Just GET there.  once there you have your chance to compete.  No guarantees, just your shot.  And the other thing I think we have to differentiate is what does it take to get heavily recruited vs. what will just GET YOU THERE!  Agreed that kid topping at 84 isnt going to have stalkers on him constantly.  Won't see scouts beating down his door and will most likely be a late commit.  But when the smoke clears and the big boys are all committed lots of D1's find themselves scrambling for guys like this to round out their staff.  Why one and not the other?  Last thing they want is a problem in their 35th roster spot so they look for the quality of kid at that point.  Or lets be honest could be a friend of the program, booster kid or relative etc.  When you get to that point your best chance is to be a great kid, teammate and student.  Thats how you throw 84 and make a D1 team.

2020DAD, I think the key you are missing is this. Many people tell kids to go "go where you are wanted, or in some conversations loved" if you aren't in that category you are an after thought...if you add that thought to the process your frustrations are incorrect.

There is a big difference between somebody that, after all the perceived better options have gone, they are now being willing to give you a look see and actually being recruited like a guy they love....

very very big difference.

I don't doubt that there are individual kids who threw harder the week after a PG tournament, or month after, or whatever -- or kids who are secretly hitting 90 in their backyard or something -- but the intent was to gather verified data from lots and lots of pitchers. My off-the-cuff view of the data was sort of 83-85 for D3, 87-88 for mid-major, and 91-92 for top D1 -- those numbers wouldn't be the highest of recruited kids, but would not be the lowest either -- more middle of the pack (again, those are max velos as a rising senior or senior fall -- certainly the numbers could be higher later).

But that's just my view. I suppose the data could be interpreted differently, or discounted entirely, too.

Also, if we're talking only about the top recruits at a particular school -- the ones who are "loved" -- then of course the numbers will be higher on average.

Nice guidelines and data. 

Locally, we have 4 - 2018's that are currently 90+ guys. None, are committed and one has been in front of PG. After the PG event was invited to two UOV's.

Do I believe the others are D1 prospects? Should be, but you never know.  Likely, the only schools that know of them is with in a 2-3 hour radius. So if they desire to play D1, they might get recruited but from my perspective 90 means very little and these local schools have their private fishing pond, unless they go on a national level to pressure recruiting.

Many kids in my area choose JuCo for many reasons, playing time, more games and ability to be drafted sooner.

At the same time D1 rosters tend to turn over about 50% of the previous years incoming class. 

2019Dad posted:

Also, if we're talking only about the top recruits at a particular school -- the ones who are "loved" -- then of course the numbers will be higher on average.

JMO but yes that is the only thing I consider. again IMO if you aren't that kid at whatever school you are looking at you probably should keep moving.

If you think it's frustrating to read posts from everyone who says that you need to throw 90s to be recruited - wait until you have a RHP who throws 84-85, try to help him get recruited D1 and see how frustrating it becomes!

The problem with the scenario you describe above is the sheer number of RHPs who throw in this range - it describes virtually every starting pitcher we saw the summer between my 2016's Jr and Sr year and most of the RHPs on his summer team.  So there are a lot of RHPs waiting for the spots to be filled and dust to settle, smoke to clear, etc - and then you're talking about waiting until Nov (or so) of Sr. year to find a spot with most likely a preferred walk-on spot at best to a D1.  And that assumes that out of the colleges you have been in contact with, have seen you, etc there is one or two who didn't fill the spots they had for RHPs and there is a match and you get to them first instead of any of the 100+ other RHPs they have seen the last 2 summers.  

Can it happen?  Sure.  Does it happen often?  Not from what I've seen here in the northeast the last three seasons.   Most of those players end up finding spots at another level before they get to that stage. 

old_school posted:

2019Dad posted:

Also, if we're talking only about the top recruits at a particular school -- the ones who are "loved" -- then of course the numbers will be higher on average.

JMO but yes that is the only thing I consider. again IMO if you aren't that kid at whatever school you are looking at you probably should keep moving.

That's a valid perspective. I'm (mostly) with you -- the exceptions I would make is for schools like the Ivies or military academies -- IMO just getting in is a tremendous accomplishment, even if it is as the last recruit!

What velocity is necessary to get onto a college roster at certain schools?

This is the title of this thread.  No where here does it mentioned being recruited let alone heavily recruited.  Get onto a college roster...  That's what we are talking about here.  And as for the being loved thing...  We can't all be loved at all levels.  If everyone followed this advice no team would ever fill out their roster.    Some kids simply have to go somewhere they are not loved and compete if that is what they want!  How many freshman pitchers do you think there are on a D1 staff on average?  7 or 8?  Probably a good guess.  Most teams about 15 pitchers some more.  usually almost half are freshmen as older kids get drafted, quit or transfer.  So lets say 7.5x300=2250.  Take out the kids who go in the draft after high school and those who for reasons of their own want to go to a lower level school or a Juco for grades or whatever.  Still think there are 2250 kids left who throw 90+??  Or even 88+?

2019Dad posted:

old_school posted:

2019Dad posted:

Also, if we're talking only about the top recruits at a particular school -- the ones who are "loved" -- then of course the numbers will be higher on average.

JMO but yes that is the only thing I consider. again IMO if you aren't that kid at whatever school you are looking at you probably should keep moving.

That's a valid perspective. I'm (mostly) with you -- the exceptions I would make is for schools like the Ivies or military academies -- IMO just getting in is a tremendous accomplishment, even if it is as the last recruit!

that is certainly a fair point.

To get on the roster you need to be recruited.  Even at the D3 level there aren't really try-outs.  There aren't 2250 RHPs out there who throw 88+ (at least I don't think so) but there are thousands of players who throw mid 80s.  Lots of them never go to a PG event and you'll never see a listing of their velo anywhere.  

2020dad posted:

What velocity is necessary to get onto a college roster at certain schools?

This is the title of this thread.  No where here does it mentioned being recruited let alone heavily recruited.  Get onto a college roster...  That's what we are talking about here.  And as for the being loved thing...  We can't all be loved at all levels.  If everyone followed this advice no team would ever fill out their roster.    Some kids simply have to go somewhere they are not loved and compete if that is what they want!  How many freshman pitchers do you think there are on a D1 staff on average?  7 or 8?  Probably a good guess.  Most teams about 15 pitchers some more.  usually almost half are freshmen as older kids get drafted, quit or transfer.  So lets say 7.5x300=2250.  Take out the kids who go in the draft after high school and those who for reasons of their own want to go to a lower level school or a Juco for grades or whatever.  Still think there are 2250 kids left who throw 90+??  Or even 88+?

this is all probably true, I certainly wouldn't argue with it. It also probably explains why the transfer never enrolled rate after the freshman season is about 60 percent or even higher. if that is the model you are looking for, well there ya go you go it. unfortunately way to many of them will be - See you at XYZ juco next year!!

One thing to consider in determining which 84-86 guys get a shot at D1 is what else they bring to the table.  One of my RHP guys from last year topped out at 84 at PG event fall of senior year.  Fantastic secondary pitches.  Wasn't getting the love from the more local D1's.  Went a little further north to a camp after we talked to head coach.  Not sure which one, but either bat speed or exit velocity was 104MPH top and averaged 99 MPH on all swings at the camp....light tower power.   So obviously if he can make some contact there is possibility of hitting if he can't get guys out on the mound.  Fast forward to fall of freshman year of college and he hit 92mph pitching a bullpen last week and as of Friday had given up 1 run all fall on the mound.  I guess they knew what they were looking for.

video video video, and get a rock solid list of schools that are in the target range and start sophomore year.  Coaches can see things on video that might be worth discussion.  Throwing 90 is one thing, throwing 87 with great command, knowing how to pitch, will also be enough for many programs.  One of the most important factors is a GPA higher than 3.5, so the money doesn't hit the athletic budget.