Coach holding a grudge against a player for for retaliation against parent.

Is this the HS Soccer coach or club team?

It happens every day.  Did you do something to his sons?  Have you apologized or ever discussed the situation that happened that he is retaliating for?  Some times parents need to stay out of the situation and some times they are the reason for the situation.  We say it here all the time that parents keep kids from getting playing time, scholarships, and other things.  If you are the reason and have never discussed it, then you need to talk it through.  You are wanting to take up for your kid and it sounds like he is taking up for his kids in his own way.  Right or wrong.

It may not apply to this situation, but the first step is to really look and make sure that your son deserves to be there.  Don't rely on what other parents or kids are saying.  If they are friends or yours or your son, chances are, they won't be completely honest.  They will not want to hurt your feelings or your sons.  

If you and your son really feel strongly that he deserves more time, have HIM schedule a time to meet with the coach and or any assistant coaches and plead his case on a performance basis.  You will never win the battle if you go at it from a personal standpoint.  I have had some disagreements on a personal level with a HS coach, and I Know its difficult.  Unless your kid is substantially better than any other options, he will be punished if you make it personal.

Venting someplace reasonably safe can help.  Done.  

Now, get to work and continue to be the parent he needs to see.   

"I've instructed my son to keep working hard and communicate and ask what to do and if he's doing it right."

That is the right type of advice.  There will always be hurdles to overcome.  Things will never be completely fair.  People are human.  Your son should strive to be the best he can be and work toward being so good as a player and a teammate that he leaves no doubt... that his skill set, work ethic AND attitude toward the coaches leave no doubt that he is needed on the field when the whistle blows.  That should be the sole focus.  It sounds like he is already aware of the situation with you and the coach's sons.  You and mom must make it a point to erase that from any and all discussion and any of the thought process.  Set the example.  Be the good parents.  Have him focus positively on leaving not doubt.   The rest will work itself out.  

Whether your initial incident with his sons had any merit or not, you and your wife are the last ones who should be vocalizing any claims of unfairness or retaliation.  If your son ultimately "leaves no doubt", it will be addressed by others.  As Wareagle said, your son may or may not be the exceptional player that other players and parents are saying... probably somewhere in between.  It is human nature that they are going to say the polite thing.  It can be difficult, particularly as parents, to decipher how much is factual and how much is common courtesy that comes with normal dialog at sporting events or about our children athletes.  

If, at some point, it becomes blatantly obvious that the coach is, in fact, going to continue to act on a grudge, then your son can find his soccer fix through rec or club, particularly since it is his second sport.  It can be hard to see in the heat of the moment, but making the right parent choices here and setting the right example is the bigger picture and much more important than the knee-jerk reaction of protecting the kid against perceived preferential wrongdoing by stirring things up. 

No excuses.  Get better, son.  Leave no doubt that you should be on that field.  Have you done everything you can to be that player?  ..that teammate?  Good.  Keep it up.  It will pay off.

My son attended a large classification high school. Outside football and track, swimming and water polo and multiple track seasons there were a lot of one sport athletes. Coaches believed their sport was THE sport. Baseball was his primary sport. He started varsity soph year. He made varsity soccer before the end of freshman year. Soccer was his best sport. Freshman year he was the starting point guard on the freshman basketball team. 

Soph year basketball parents were asking me if I thought he would make varsity. The team needed an unselfish point guard. They had too many shooters and not enough unselfish passers. My son had always been in search of the perfect pass. Plus the top D1 prospect on the team said my son was the toughest defender he had ever faced (in practice).

I came home from work and found my son slumped on the couch. He had been cut despite his talent due to not playing on a summer team (played travel baseball and attended soccer goalie day camp) and not attending any fall off season “optional” workouts (played soccer and travel fall ball). He did a lot of basketball work on his own in the driveway.

All season long a former NBA player with a son on the team told the coach he made a huge mistake. The team lacked a quality point guard. Parents and kids told my son and me constantly he got screwed. We took the high road. We attended games and cheered. He sat in the students section. Refs would ask him why he wasn’t on the team. He only said he was focusing on two sports. 

He played in the local youth rec league. The basketball coach allowed varsity end of the bench and JV players to play. My son ate them all alive. By junior year getting cut wasn’t something we ever thought about again. Having the winter free to work on physical development and his swing made him a better baseball player.

The soccer coach was ticked off my son was the only player on the team not playing elite summer soccer and looking for a college soccer opportunity. Whenever he got on my son he smiled and said, “Coach it’s no problem. (he was a goalie) Outside the 18 is like playing short (he was a shortstop). Inside the 18 is like playing third.”

My son was benched the first two games junior year. The coach tried to hand the goalie job to the senior son of the head of the local travel program. The kid played three years of JV. He had never played goal until that summer. After starting 0-2 with poor goal play my son was given the job back. The previous year they were 22-4 including playoffs. Most of the team was back.

So yes, this stuff happens. Blowing up on a coach doesn’t help. You deal with it or walk away. Actually, the kid deals with it with the coach.

Someday your son is going to get screwed and you’re not going to be there to help. It could be a college grade or getting passed over for a job promotion. High school isn’t too young for young men to start handling their own problems. Parents should only coach how to deal with the problem. 

Life isn’t always fair. Unless you’re A Ford you will never be Chairman of the Board of The Ford Motor Company.

When you get screwed do you wilt, toss blame and make excuses or find an alternate route to success?

Yes HS. Yes I know I don't want to make it personal. Nor do I even want to talk to the coach, I see very little benefit in that other than personal satisfaction which is not really of any value to me.

What I did to his sons was not give in to their selfishness, un-coachablility and parental attacks on playing time and positioning of them. Youngest never played on the big field had lots to learn and oldest made many costly errors on infield and flourished defensively in outfield didn't like being there. Never got a hit that year and refused to bunt despite probably being the fastest guy in the league. This guy attacked my coaching after just 1 game of play and quoted seniority as a basis of playing time and positioning for which I did not subscribe to. 'Tis ironic he doesn't either as a coach. There is a ton of other history but that's the basis of it

As far as believing what others are telling us.... We are not asking for input on our son. This is unsolicited input. There are a lot of people are just fed up with this guy as a soccer coach for many different reasons unrelated to my situation and related is some ways and there is a lot of upset parents, which there always is, but even the parents of the players that get whole games of playing time are complaining...its really a bizarre situation to me that I can't fully comprehend. Some of those parents are asking me what can be done to change things and I have no answers for them unfortunately. I'm just trying to fly under the radar so to speak and help my son work through his frustrations without making it worse for him and potentially help the team. My son knows the reason why he's getting mistreated and is trying to work through it without bringing up the elephant in the room. But it seems like this coach maybe wants that elephant to be seen...like maybe he'll get some satisfaction if I come at him, but I see that as pointless and not changing anything.

This article seems to sum up the mindset of this guy, Its quite scary how accurate it seems....https://www.competitivedge.com...ir-coaches-revisited

You haven't erased it yet...  

Don't leave that door open any more... when parents hold a door open, kids feel obligated to walk in and join.  Close the door.  Move on.  Have him focus on being the best he can be.

And, remember...  Sometimes, parents will mostly let go of these things and say all the right things.  But, there is still residue in the back of their minds.  So, the right words come out but the tone says something different.  It's not that hard to pick up on.  Our kids are very good at this.

Unfortunately kids figure out stuff we don't talk about through their own inquiries among their peers and ask questions. I'm honest with them so they are prepared for the unfairness they will endure and are not left wondering to figure out much later in life that people can be very mean and unfair even if they are "grown up"...and coach them to just keep putting in work because it will make them better than the others that are given opportunities and and don't know what its like to really truly want something and try for it.

My son is not that star athlete. He is biologically behind his peers, didn't hit puberty till 1 year ago when many kids his age hit it 2-4 years ago. It has always taken a lot of work for him to keep up with his age group. He works harder than many kids have to and we are just now starting to see that its paying off, this soccer situation seems like an unnecessary setback but looking far enough down the road it will likely help him. I would objectively (as if a parent could actually objectively judge anything relating to there sons and daughters) place him at probably number 7 or 8 overall on our 11 person soccer team. Meaning factoring all the qualities a soccer player might possess. Some kids are faster, taller, kick farther, etc. His speed is dramatically changed this year but is still seen as good but not great. He is next to last one off the bench for his positions on a 17 person varisty squad. Only 2-3 positions ever get subbed. Mostly 2.

Thanks for sharing RJM. Its encouraging we are somewhat on the right path. They aren't allowed to cut in our programs, So that would have been an interesting message sent if he would have been cut from both varsity and JV as he looked out of place on JV last year and ran circles around most kids they played against. We didn't say a word as he was getting some much needed time on the field to develop. He does very well this year on Varsity but is not that standout guy with mad speed and ball skill. He makes up for a lot in his decision making and the coach even told him he was the smartest soccer player on the team. If he was cut we would most definitely have sought other options for him to play or just did travel fall ball and likely would not have returned.

Perception is reality. Unfortunately, it's rare that people on different sides of an issue share the same perception.

Your perception is that you didn't let his kids get away with their "selfishness, un-coachablility and parental attacks on playing time and positioning of them." His may be that you unfairly benched them.

Your perception is that this coach has "selfish motivations and emotional decisions." His may be that your son isn't doing everything he wants or that he is standing up against parental attacks of some kind.

The best advice I ever got (and the hardest to follow) was that you should never assume you know what is in someone else's heart or mind. Don't assume you understand their motivations. Assume that if someone says "I want what's best for the team." they truly want that.

If someone asks why your son isn't playing I would go with -- I don't know, it's the coach's decision and I'm sure he has his reasons. That's really between my son and his coach.

And then let it be there. And vent here before, after and during games if it helps.

My advice to anyone with a conflict like this is, don’t play soccer. In fact that is my advice to anyone about soccer. 

RJM posted:

My son attended a large classification high school. Outside football and track, swimming and water polo and multiple track seasons there were a lot of one sport athletes. Coaches believed their sport was THE sport. Baseball was his primary sport. He started varsity soph year. He made varsity soccer before the end of freshman year. Soccer was his best sport. Freshman year he was the starting point guard on the freshman basketball team. 

Soph year basketball parents were asking me if I thought he would make varsity. The team needed an unselfish point guard. They had too many shooters and not enough unselfish passers. My son had always been in search of the perfect pass. Plus the top D1 prospect on the team said my son was the toughest defender he had ever faced (in practice).

I came home from work and found my son slumped on the couch. He had been cut despite his talent due to not playing on a summer team (played travel baseball and attended soccer goalie day camp) and not attending any fall off season “optional” workouts (played soccer and travel fall ball). He did a lot of basketball work on his own in the driveway.

All season long a former NBA player with a son on the team told the coach he made a huge mistake. The team lacked a quality point guard. Parents and kids told my son and me constantly he got screwed. We took the high road. We attended games and cheered. He sat in the students section. Refs would ask him why he wasn’t on the team. He only said he was focusing on two sports. 

He played in the local youth rec league. The basketball coach allowed varsity end of the bench and JV players to play. My son ate them all alive. By junior year getting cut wasn’t something we ever thought about again. Having the winter free to work on physical development and his swing made him a better baseball player.

The soccer coach was ticked off my son was the only player on the team not playing elite summer soccer and looking for a college soccer opportunity. Whenever he got on my son he smiled and said, “Coach it’s no problem. (he was a goalie) Outside the 18 is like playing short (he was a shortstop). Inside the 18 is like playing third.”

My son was benched the first two games junior year. The coach tried to hand the goalie job to the senior son of the head of the local travel program. The kid played three years of JV. He had never played goal until that summer. After starting 0-2 with poor goal play my son was given the job back. The previous year they were 22-4 including playoffs. Most of the team was back.

So yes, this stuff happens. Blowing up on a coach doesn’t help. You deal with it or walk away. Actually, the kid deals with it with the coach.

Someday your son is going to get screwed and you’re not going to be there to help. It could be a college grade or getting passed over for a job promotion. High school isn’t too young for young men to start handling their own problems. Parents should only coach how to deal with the problem. 

Life isn’t always fair. Unless you’re A Ford you will never be Chairman of the Board of The Ford Motor Company.

When you get screwed do you wilt, toss blame and make excuses or find an alternate route to success?

 

Great story.

Here is a quote I found interesting:

"I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs, But how high he bounces when he hits bottom"

General George S. Patton

Your son needs to go up to the coach after practice and blindside him. He has to pull him and another coach to the side after practice and say coach what do I have to do to get more playing time? Let him answer and then ask why he's been getting pulled 10 minutes in if he's a starter. I assume that would be the equivalent of a SS getting pulled in the third inning. I don't like soccer and I have no idea how personnel or matchups work so I'm going to assume he's getting pulled for no reason. He should answer honestly and if he gets an answer that he doesn't like then he needs to ask what he should be working on. Then work on it. And when he does work on it and gets better you go to the other coach and ask why nothing has changed. If nothing changes then he doesn't like your son or the other guy is flat out better. 

Iowamom23 - Thanks for reminding me that everyone has a perception and they are all different. Sometimes hard to remember that. Especially when you have others confirming what you think you are seeing without asking about it. But yes our perceptions are different because our expectations are different. Having both the coaching and parent perspective should make something like this easier, but it doesn't really seem to help and might even make it more difficult. This coach knows why I benched his sons. It was communicated. They just didn't want to accept it. And I got many texts that season regarding the situation...and was directed to hand out more playing time at one point. That of course didn't go over too well with the rest of the team when I benched my own son to make room for more playing time of less talented older players.

The problem I have with assuming that someone says and wants whats best for the team is that when their actions and decisions clearly show something different, it sends a very different message to the team. Actions always outweigh what someone says to alter someone else's perception. I've never seen anyone say so many right things and then take actions to contradict what they say. I'm just not equipped to know how to work with (or rather just understand) someone like that....YET.

Venting helps, don't know why, but I might be able to make it through the season now.

adbono, why just soccer? Its a great sport that can really help kids stay active that don't have the patience or timing and coordination for a sport like baseball. But it has skills that transfers to baseball as well with timing and foot speed and coordination. The only thing I don't like about it is that the rules of the game are left WAY too much to judgement and interpretation of what is allowed for aggression. So every game is a new adventure on whether it will be physical based or skill based or somewhere in between. I prefer the skill based game but might be biased toward baseball.

pabaseball, We've already done that twice and the last time the excuse was he didn't want to get him hurt for baseball which was lame. How do you get better at not getting hurt? Just found out another coach overheard that conversation and was flabbergasted about it too.

He started again last night, made it 17 minutes. started 2nd half made it 7 minutes and got a few minutes at end again. Asked my son how he felt and if he felt he was getting what he deserved. His response was it was better but it still didn't seem right yet.  Told him then you didn't do good enough then to separate yourself from the other subs then yet. Keep at it. He's had 2 coaches now (HC and HC father-in-law) tell him he's doing really good but then in the same breath point out a single bad touch giving the impression they are expecting perfection from him while overlooking the lack of perfection on the players that never come out of the game. Its a difficult situation for him to navigate and figure out what the HC is actually expecting to see. Sounds like working at a job to me and trying to navigate what your boss really wants to see vs what he's telling you that he wants. ha. life lessons through sports they say.

My question would be, since you described this as payback for something you did to his kid, what the hell did you do to his kid that he feels tanking his own team is okay? It looks like you already said you didn’t play him, and if this is a “tit for tat” situation you either need to suck it up, transfer if soccer is that important, or quit soccer. That is how I see your options.

I will take this opportunity to say I think it is tougher for us as coaches/parents.  I was an assistant coach for varsity baseball and football and head middle school coach when my kids were younger.  I think it has somewhat changed my perspective as a parent for the good and the bad.  At times, I relate to the choices that my sons' coaches had to make.  But I also see the bad choices they make in relationship with my son.  I have had coaches that didn't play to win like I do.  They played everybody to some extent, even on varsity, and gave in to requests from supporters and administration.  They played kids that had no business playing but were good for the program or school.  They played seniors who shouldn't have been on the team much less play varsity.  I have been encouraged to do so by administration but have never given in to that because for one my livlihood was not dependent on that job.  I did it for the love of the game and to win. 

I have never completely felt like someone held a grudge against my kids but I have experienced the coaches who, because of our relationship and my sons good nature, felt like they could bench them for others who were not as good and "needed playing time."  They were right.  I never said anything but really had to bite my tongue a few times. 

This situation does sound familiar though in lots of areas of life.  I think there is a lot more of this in school ball than we would think.  But let me clarify one thing that has stood out to me.  The OP says his son is not the best.  I'm willing to bet that the coach would do otherwise if the OP's son was the stud.  Because he is a middle level player it is more acceptable.  He stated that he was 7 or 8 out of 11 so that position would be substituted a lot.  Even in baseball, I substituted my 6-8 batters and never my 1-5 no matter how they were hitting that day, unless it was just horrible.  I also can guarantee i would never bench my son if he was the stud to give a disgruntled parent the benefit of their kid getting playing time.   I would say this is a very prevalent thing in sports today.  Adults/parents not getting along.  I have a kid I do lessons for that went to another league because the dad and the other coach/dad did not get along.  The kids were the ones punished. 

So I thought I give this thread some closure. As it turns out the coach ended up getting fired...err I mean the position was re-opened. And now we have a new coach for next year. There were many issues and complaints from parents that shouldn't need to complain and don't normally complain. Plus a number of other issues the just compounded the problem. Administration felt it was best to try another path.

It was recommended by some that my wife and I also voice our observations/feelings (since the AD requested anyone that had an issue to voice it) but I didn't feel that was the right move at the time and did not want to add to what looked like someone digging their own hole so to speak. Instead we kept plugging along and encouraged our son to keep working hard at practice and games with the time he did get. Us his emotions as fuel to up his level of play. My specific instruction went something like this. "Make the coach look "stupid" for not playing you." He really didn't have any other options after the coach stopped giving him things to improve on and started making excuses for not playing him like "I don't want to get you hurt for baseball." For most of all the regular season He continued to start on the bench and was usually 1st or 2nd to be subbed into games after about 15-20 min of mind numbing soccer play from the positions he was to be subbed into. Never got more than half a game worth of time on the field until we made it to post season play (The bar is set pretty low for that) he started every game and played more time on the field than any other regular season game. Was still the first one subbed off. Never got credit for things he did on the field. Nor were his or any other players stats ever remotely correct. I know stats are subjective (baseball has some of the most subjective), but there is subjective and then there is just grossly wrong. At the time we didn't realize none of that really mattered as it only added to the negativity that was building around the coach. What really mattered was seeing my son play in the first round of state playoff game be ultra aggressive near the goal on an attempt to score and being taken out by the opponent that was clearly not in a position to stop him....to draw a penalty kick (not scored by him) that ended up either tying the game or was the first score of the game in a very back and forth match up that was previously a blow out twice in regular season. Final score after 2 overtimes was 1-1. The game was decided in then end by penalty kicks to which we came out victors. There were many things he did in that game that went way above and beyond the norm, It was like he was finally released from a leash that was on him the whole season. I think it all stemmed from the fear of making the coach mad and losing the little bit of playing time he was getting. After many conversations of trying to help him understand coaching perspectives balanced with motivations and the end of the season near, The gloves finally came off and he seemed to go all out disregarding some ultra conservative (possibly biased) instruction he and some teammates were getting. After the state game I waited for him to come out wrapped my arm around him and told him, "While I was super proud of how well he played, He should be proud most proud of himself for how much he worked to prove that he belonged on the field and could help his team win if given the chance" I will remember that game forever probably. We lost the next round to a private school and were done for the season. The next school day the coach was released.

Thank you all that offered comments of support and checks on reality. It was very helpful. and this process will help me as a coach moving forward as well. For now we are looking forward to baseball season (He is now above that 80mph cutoff that so many colleges seem to look for, Still has height working against him though). This should help him have a very successful year on the mound in our league. Unsure what the future holds in the batters box yet. We are also looking forward to finishing up high school soccer with a new coach. Hopefully things will go a bit smoother this time.

My advice for any parent or player in any sport that might find this thread. Just focus on making the coach look stupid for not playing you by your performance at practice/games on the field/court/pitch. It solves a lot of issues quickly. The challenge in this task is being able to objectively see your performance against those that you are competing against and maybe hearing some things you don't want to hear. But they are necessary for you to hear if they will help you get better. You can't assume your working on the right things, you must ask what it is the coach is looking for to set you apart. Speed covers up a lot of deficiencies. If you have it be thankful but look for other areas of improvement. If you don't have speed, make it a top priority in your development, but don't neglect other areas.

How many times have we heard the parent story? I know some on this site do not want to hear this but I never really had any problem with parents. If they could they came to the game and went home.  there was a line .Now it is so much different.  the reason?  whatever the reason coaching is not the same. 

I guess I'm going to say something that I hope is obvious to most of us. "Making someone look stupid for not playing you" is a bad goal that will probably not get you anywhere.

Being so good that they can't avoid playing you, being such a team player that they can't resist what you bring to the team, so coachable that they can't wait to work with you — those seem like a road to success.

Just as Will says he never had problems with parents, we've never had trouble with coaches. While I'm sure my kid's skill had something to do with it, I'm sure that his respect for coaches (both good ones and bad ones) and his work ethic earned him a lot of opportunities. Many more than trying to make anyone look bad for any reason.

Last post, right mental approach. Post before it, wrong mental approach. Negative energy can be exhausting. Plus it doesn’t show leadership. It maintains a negative attitude that is visible to teammates and coaches. Coaches call it a cancer. 

we've never had trouble with coaches.......and what is a problem . Seems many times a parent sees a problem if their  son or daughter did not play or was taken out of a game or is not playing the position the parent thinks is best or not batting in a certain spot. Just an observation on some of the posts I have read. 

Will posted:

we've never had trouble with coaches.......and what is a problem . Seems many times a parent sees a problem if their  son or daughter did not play or was taken out of a game or is not playing the position the parent thinks is best or not batting in a certain spot. Just an observation on some of the posts I have read. 

It’s typically parents of marginal players who have problems with coaches. They see their kids as better than the other marginal kids. They can’t grasp why the coach would see another player as a better fit. You want to stay away from whiny parents at games. They tend to group together and fuel each other. 

The real problem is these type's of answers to these topics can't cover every situation. While I do agree that negative outlooks are cancerous in nature, maintaining a positive attitude can be just as exhausting in the face of TRULY bad coaching. I have seen quite a few kids quit the game because of this. I encourage you to re-read the BB's post and put yourself in his and/or his kids shoes.

Not to get hammered on this thread, as I do believe the vast majority of the time the problem lies with the parents/players, but in the real world TRULY bad coaches do exist. Just not that often thankfully.

ReluctantO'sFan posted:

The real problem is these type's of answers to these topics can't cover every situation. While I do agree that negative outlooks are cancerous in nature, maintaining a positive attitude can be just as exhausting in the face of TRULY bad coaching. I have seen quite a few kids quit the game because of this. I encourage you to re-read the BB's post and put yourself in his and/or his kids shoes.

Not to get hammered on this thread, as I do believe the vast majority of the time the problem lies with the parents/players, but in the real world TRULY bad coaches do exist. Just not that often thankfully.

JMO - BB has a lot right.  But there is a distinct difference between sending the message of "make the coach look stupid" and "prove to the coach that he was wrong" with his earlier assessment of you.  The first basically implies that you are the enemy of the coach (and probably always will be).  There is no way to be a part of building a good team culture this way, regardless of how good or bad the coach is.  The second is saying you will do what it takes to earn the respect of the coach and earn playing time which, in turn, most often has a positive effect on the whole dynamics of the team.

I think that is sorta what Iowamom and RJM are alluding to. 

Is it hard for a HS kid to be part of building a team culture when there is a bad coach making bad decisions?  Sure, sometimes maybe even impossible at times, but that should still be the objective as far as the message from the parent to the son/player.  Instructing a kid to make a coach look stupid is never a good direction and misdirected motivation. 

Yes, maintaining a positive attitude in a difficult situation is exhausting.  Learning the important hard lessons are never a walk in the park.

Again, JMO.

Sometimes how kids are treated is part of where they fit age/classwise in the program. Soph year my son was afraid of the coach. When the season opened he started and hit ninth. Over the season he moved up to second and made all conference. But the coach barely talked to him. He yanked him without discussing it once for looking cross eyed at an ump on a brutal called third. I thought the coach had severe communication issues. 

After the last game the coach walked up to my son, put his arm on his shoulder and said, “We’re going further next year. I expect you to star and lead.” 

Junior year their relationship was completely different. They joked and kidded (with respect) with each other. My son advised sophs to relax, do their job and earn respect from the coach. 

The 'problem'? that everyone keeps dancing around.............

This is what baseball has become. Very simple. It is believed you are entitled to play at high school and heck beyond for the very same reason you are entitled to play at showcase or academy xyz.... a big $ check. This is the mindset and environment most all these players have been bred in. And its being reinforced with each dollar spent, and with each check cashed, and with each multiplying World championship weekend Podunk tournament with 5 trophy divisions, and with each 120 player college jv roster.

Its like a disease. The first organ affected is the 'compete' organ. When that's gone they try to keep you alive with the velo and metric drugs and cash infusions. But eventually those fail as well and the disease progresses to the 'win' organ. And its terminal beyond that point.

Sure the patient lives, and baseball goes on..........but the game has died.

Showball$ posted:

The 'problem'? that everyone keeps dancing around.............

This is what baseball has become. Very simple. It is believed you are entitled to play at high school and heck beyond for the very same reason you are entitled to play at showcase or academy xyz.... a big $ check. This is the mindset and environment most all these players have been bred in. And its being reinforced with each dollar spent, and with each check cashed, and with each multiplying World championship weekend Podunk tournament with 5 trophy divisions, and with each 120 player college jv roster.

Its like a disease. The first organ affected is the 'compete' organ. When that's gone they try to keep you alive with the velo and metric drugs and cash infusions. But eventually those fail as well and the disease progresses to the 'win' organ. And its terminal beyond that point.

Sure the patient lives, and baseball goes on..........but the game has died.

 

Well said 

I will agree with some.  We have never had a problem with a coach, even the bad ones.  I cannot imagine even a bad coach sitting his best player.  The ones who complain, and I have heard enough of them as a parent and a coach, is the middle to bottom ones.  I've never heard of a coach sitting or treating his best players bad.  Even the bad ones can see who are the best players.   BUT.  I have seen very good coaches sit a good player because of bad parents.  I've done it.  I've sent one home for a week because of his parents.  You don't get paid enough to deal with bad parents.  I've also seen some very good players not get scholarships or offers because of bad parents.  You can think that is wrong but who wants to deal with an obnoxious parent  for four years.  I don't consider that a bad coach.  And yes I think it is okay for a coach to hold a grudge against a player because of how his parents act.  I've banned parents from games and didn't pick players because of their parents.  I've even broken up a team because I got tired of the parents.  Loved the kids but hated the drama. 

You don't get paid enough to deal with bad parents. ...that is true.   If "some" of the parents would realize the baggabe they bring.  the problem is that the  "some" have become more and more over the years. 

TerribleBPthrower posted:

RJM posted:

Will posted:

we've never had trouble with coaches.......and what is a problem . Seems many times a parent sees a problem if their  son or daughter did not play or was taken out of a game or is not playing the position the parent thinks is best or not batting in a certain spot. Just an observation on some of the posts I have read. 

It’s typically parents of marginal players who have problems with coaches. They see their kids as better than the other marginal kids. They can’t grasp why the coach would see another player as a better fit. You want to stay away from whiny parents at games. They tend to group together and fuel each other. 

I almost started a topic on this earlier today. My son is a freshman and they have played 2 games... 2. I was amazed at the fact parents are already complaining about playing time. A couple of parents are already going to the school AD because their kid only pitched in one of the games. Keep in mind, these were preseason games and the coach was trying to mix in as many kids as possible to see what they could do in a live game. 

It really takes the fun out of watching the games when the parents are walking around complaining to anyone who would listen. Apparently last year they thought their freshman son should be starting over a top 10 player in the state and a Vandy commit. Deeeeeelusional

Our AD would have laughed those parents out of his office.  Unless it is a complaint where the coach is physically accosting the players or there is a health issue, he's not going to get into the discussion of playing time.

A couple of parents are already going to the school AD because their kid only pitched in one of the games. ...........Here is the really sad part they actually think that is the thing to do. 

Our son would die if we intervened with a coach.  Then when we got home he would tell us to stand down.😂  The only way we ever hear about anything going on, is from other players parents because their boy comes home and complains.   I respect my son and his judgement.  We have to let them handle things on their own.

We have to let them handle things on their own.........Exactly . I remember many years ago my son complaining to me about something that happened. I told him if he had a complaint I was not the one to voice the complaint as I had nothing to do with whatever it was. I do rmember one time he told me how the coach yelled at him (yes the coach yelled). He got doubled off a base on a bunt. He was basically whining which I hate now as I did all those years ago . I just said to him the easy fix was do not get doubled off. 

Will posted:

We have to let them handle things on their own.........Exactly . I remember many years ago my son complaining to me about something that happened. I told him if he had a complaint I was not the one to voice the complaint as I had nothing to do with whatever it was. I do rmember one time he told me how the coach yelled at him (yes the coach yelled). He got doubled off a base on a bunt. He was basically whining which I hate now as I did all those years ago . I just said to him the easy fix was do not get doubled off. 

Or tell the coach to yell at the kid to get the d#$m bunt down 

Son had one coach that he didn't like. Nicest guy in the world, he said, but I never know if I screwed up because he talks to me instead of yelling at me.

His favorite coach was a female basketball coach who coached him in his travel basketball team. One day at a school game, she was "coaching" from the stands. The referee said (sympathetically) to my son "is that your mom? She's pretty loud." Son, "no it's my coach. She's just like that."

Lets be honest if you are going to play a game that has a lot of failure you have to be able to handle it. Is it too general of a statement to say the kids are just not as tough as years ago?  Yes I am one of those dinosaur ex coaches who yes raised my voice and got on a player when he did something wrong. The key to that was you picked your spots. If you yell all the time it has no meaning.  Do you want a coach that is demanding or just lets things go as to not upset the player? do you want a coach after a mistake to tell the player not to worry about it or one who demands a change in play? If the coach tells the player not to worry about it and he makes the same mistake again the player did exactly what the coach said he did not worry about it and he made the same mistake again.  And to be honest that is on the coach.  

Reminds me of an interview I heard several years back, don't quote me but I think it was Bob Knight (or someone similar in college basketball). During one of his epic rants he was asked what the difference was between this generation and previous ones. He said the kids are basically the same, its the parents that have changed.

https://theprovince.com/sports...itter-and-hoop-glory

Will posted:

Lets be honest if you are going to play a game that has a lot of failure you have to be able to handle it. Is it too general of a statement to say the kids are just not as tough as years ago?  Yes I am one of those dinosaur ex coaches who yes raised my voice and got on a player when he did something wrong. The key to that was you picked your spots. If you yell all the time it has no meaning.  Do you want a coach that is demanding or just lets things go as to not upset the player? do you want a coach after a mistake to tell the player not to worry about it or one who demands a change in play? If the coach tells the player not to worry about it and he makes the same mistake again the player did exactly what the coach said he did not worry about it and he made the same mistake again.  And to be honest that is on the coach.  

 

I don't really understand your logic here. You say you used to yell a lot, but also say the game has a lot of failure. So if there's a lot of failure, why would screaming at a kid after making a mistake be helpful? Don't worry though---if coaches are going soft, the helicopter parents screaming at their kid (and other parents' kids, always classy) from the stands make up for it. They're still getting their recommended daily allowance of being screamed at. 

Will posted:

We have to let them handle things on their own.........Exactly . I remember many years ago my son complaining to me about something that happened. I told him if he had a complaint I was not the one to voice the complaint as I had nothing to do with whatever it was. I do rmember one time he told me how the coach yelled at him (yes the coach yelled). He got doubled off a base on a bunt. He was basically whining which I hate now as I did all those years ago . I just said to him the easy fix was do not get doubled off. 

Amen.   As I was reading this thread and the various events and high school drama, I couldn't help to think how people think this lack of playing time or general unfairness is going to go over with a D1 college coach?  Hint...there will be no drama.  

Tip of the cap to the OP for letting his son handle it and not getting involved.

I’m reminded of what my WWII veteran father told me when I whined about a coach ...

You could be a pussy and quit. Or, you could man up and meet expectations.