If you thought the do-over for Spring athletes was bad, just wait until it is instituted for football players. NCAA has a precedent now.
I don’t think players feel pressure to play, they want to play.
@Pedaldad posted:If you thought the do-over for Spring athletes was bad, just wait until it is instituted for football players. NCAA has a precedent now.
One big difference from spring is that the NFL likely will not reduce the # of rounds of their 2021 draft by over 87%.
NJCAA planning to move football to spring
@baseballhs posted:I don’t think players feel pressure to play, they want to play.
Most want to play and are willing to assume the risk. Some have asthma of varying degrees and could feel pressured to play despite the risk.
The full impact of COVID is still evolving.
Short of death, impacts are with pulmonary residuals, cardiac and clotting (especially clotting issues leading to strokes and heart impacts) and now brain, neurological and cognitive residuals, amongst others. One doctor told me he wears an N95 and plastic shield with full PPE at all times with patients because of these multi-focal concerns.
These are a main focus currently. This summary is from doctors treating and involved with COVID.
A friend who completed the Ironman 2 years ago was just released after spending 4 months in ICU. His pulse got as low as 30 and his family was told to plan for his death. He is now not a death statistic. His survival is an illustration that those using “death” as the stand alone factor are completely wrong.
So many are going to be left with longer term debilitating conditions.
This economy won’t start in a viable way until political rhetoric is removed and this is recognized as a medical issue impacting every aspect of life in the US.
For those referencing “life, liberty and the pursuit “ please think about the fact the person you may be exposing or creating a risk of exposing possesses the exact same right. Rights do do not live in a tube in a highly complex society. Rights are always moderated by the rights of others.
Laws control cigarettes and exposure to second hand smoke and they are plentiful. That is because second hand smoke creates risks of deleterious exposure.
COVID is a significantly more acute/pandemic element than second hand smoke! Science is evolving to say those doing Monday morning umpiring of assessments made in February are hollow second guessers.
The US passport is not welcome most anywhere in the world. That is because of the atrocious political mismanagement of this virus. Infection vs death should be only one consideration and while the US stats are brutal, those offering them are partially hiding the much more complex and evolving medical aspects
Infection with brain, cognitive, neurological, cardiac, clotting, stroke,etc must be included. Not sure any of those are appreciated by 99.9% of athlete students. Luckily I think they are by a growing number of college presidents, ADs and conference commissioners!
@infielddad posted:The full impact of COVID is still evolving.
Short of death, impacts are with pulmonary residuals, cardiac and clotting (especially clotting issues leading to strokes and heart impacts) and now brain, neurological and cognitive residuals, amongst others. One doctor told me he wears an N95 and plastic shield with full PPE at all times with patients because of these multi-focal concerns.
These are a main focus currently. This summary is from doctors treating and involved with COVID.A friend who completed the Ironman 2 years ago was just released after spending 4 months in ICU. His pulse got as low as 30 and his family was told to plan for his death. He is now not a death statistic. His survival is an illustration that those using “death” as the stand alone factor are completely wrong.
So many are going to be left with longer term debilitating conditions.
This economy won’t start in a viable way until political rhetoric is removed and this is recognized as a medical issue impacting every aspect of life in the US.
For those referencing “life, liberty and the pursuit “ please think about the fact the person you may be exposing or creating a risk of exposing possesses the exact same right. Rights do do not live in a tube in a highly complex society. Rights are always moderated by the rights of others.
Laws control cigarettes and exposure to second hand smoke and they are plentiful. That is because second hand smoke creates risks of deleterious exposure.
COVID is a significantly more acute/pandemic element than second hand smoke! Science is evolving to say those doing Monday morning umpiring of assessments made in February are hollow second guessers.
The US passport is not welcome most anywhere in the world. That is because of the atrocious political mismanagement of this virus. Infection vs death should be only one consideration and while the US stats are brutal, those offering them are partially hiding the much more complex and evolving medical aspects
Infection with brain, cognitive, neurological, cardiac, clotting, stroke,etc must be included. Not sure any of those are appreciated by 99.9% of athlete students. Luckily I think they are by a growing number of college presidents, ADs and conference commissioners!
I’m Joe Biden and I approve this message.
@baseballhs posted:God forbid we have a choice. Everything you do has risks and it’s up to us to decide the level of risks we are willing to take. I’d be at a football game tomorrow. I’d venture to say you wouldn’t be out and traveling like I have either but I’m perfectly healthy as is everyone I know with the same thought process. And if I get it, I get it. Not willing to stop living.
If you were only risking your own health with no impact possible on anyone else, leaving the decision to individuals would be acceptable (never mind that human beings are incredibly bad at gauging risk appropriately). Heck, we could just let natural selection solve things.
But the if I get I get it decision resigns everyone you expose to it if/when you get it to the consequences of your bad decision. And the nature of exponential growth (which humans also are cognitively ill equipped to understand) means that the bad decisions compound.
If drunk drivers only ever killed themselves and destroyed their own property, people would care a lot less about stopping them. At least drunk drivers can't make the people they side swipe drunk, too.
@jacjacatk posted:If you were only risking your own health with no impact possible on anyone else, leaving the decision to individuals would be acceptable (never mind that human beings are incredibly bad at gauging risk appropriately). Heck, we could just let natural selection solve things.
But the if I get I get it decision resigns everyone you expose to it if/when you get it to the consequences of your bad decision. And the nature of exponential growth (which humans also are cognitively ill equipped to understand) means that the bad decisions compound.
If drunk drivers only ever killed themselves and destroyed their own property, people would care a lot less about stopping them. At least drunk drivers can't make the people they side swipe drunk, too.
Wouldn’t everyone he is exposing it to also be making the choice to be in whatever situation they are in to come in contact with him?
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Wouldn’t everyone he is exposing it to also be making the choice to be in whatever situation they are in to come in contact with him?
Exactly. And you would have on a mask. In a public place, I would be required to have a mask too. Outside of that, I doubt we ever would cross paths. People with your thinking are at home ( or at a minimum only at safe places ) and I’m at restaurants and traveling, working out, and living. We wouldn’t run in the same circles. And since masks are so good at containing the virus, what's the concern with a stadium 50% full of masked up fans?
@baseballhs posted:Exactly. And you would have on a mask. In a public place, I would be required to have a mask too. Outside of that, I doubt we ever would cross paths. People with your thinking are at home ( or at a minimum only at safe places ) and I’m at restaurants and traveling, working out, and living. We wouldn’t run in the same circles. And since masks are so good at containing the virus, what's the concern with a stadium 50% full of masked up fans?
Sorry, you must be misinterpreting my position/post. My point was that he is saying by living life you are putting others at risk, but aren't the "others" putting themselves at risk for doing things where they come in contact with him? The politicizing of which activities are a risk and which aren't have become comical.
I too am living life and enjoying every minute of this summer that I can. My wife and I are trying to squeeze as much in for our son as we can as you never know when people will try to shut us down again.
No, we are on the same page. I was referring to jacjacatk, who was talking down to anyone who is living life as though they don't have the cognitive skills to understand their risks and the risk they are putting on everyone else. Truth is, the people who want life to stop, aren't out there anyway, so they should be fine with their masks when they venture out to the safe places where masks are required. Let the rest of us live and we will let you know when it's safe to come out.
This is an article from France. I chose France in an effort to eliminate the “orange man factor”. It’s a calculated risk. You decide. I know how I feel, and what I’ll do based on the information that is available to us.
https://www.france24.com/en/20...can-damage-the-brain
To all the fear mongers out there:
live life and stop being a Puss...
PLAY BALL!
thank you
@jacjacatk posted:If drunk drivers only ever killed themselves and destroyed their own property, people would care a lot less about stopping them. At least drunk drivers can't make the people they side swipe drunk, too.
So I have to ask, do you take the risk of getting in a car and going somewhere? Or do you just stay home? Do laws PREVENT people from acting in certain ways? Btw, I am not advocating driving drunk.
@fishnsail posted:To all the fear mongers out there:
live life and stop being a Pussy...
PLAY BALL!
thank you
Not very helpful. Try not being a dick and see if that works better for you.
@old_school posted:noise blah blah blah - you hate Trump, orange man bad...I get it we can move on now.
Wow. Such a nuanced response to a well thought out, fact infused post. See people, THIS is the kind of BS we have to deal with.
@roothog66 posted:Not very helpful. Try not being a dick and see if that works better for you.
LOL
stop living in fear. People are sheep.. I have never seen anything so sad as I have seen in the past 4 months. People are followers....
“I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead. ”
―
I haven't posted on this thread in a while because the level of ignorance is stunning. Thinking of leaving this site permanently because I think I lose 5 IQ points every time I read a post on this thread.
@roothog66 posted:I haven't posted on this thread in a while because the level of ignorance is stunning. Thinking of leaving this site permanently because I think I lose 5 IQ points every time I read a post on this thread.
Its ok Man... Just shelter in place..
@roothog66 posted:I haven't posted on this thread in a while because the level of ignorance is stunning. Thinking of leaving this site permanently because I think I lose 5 IQ points every time I read a post on this thread.
I don’t know if it’s ignorance or selfishness. I keep thinking I’ll just stop looking at this thread but it’s kind of like a train wreck—fascinating and horrifying all at once.
At the same time I don’t want to see it shut down. Hopefully it offers an outlet and as baseball (hopefully) returns we can get back to business on other threads.
@Iowamom23 posted:I don’t know if it’s ignorance or selfishness. I keep thinking I’ll just stop looking at this thread but it’s kind of like a train wreck—fascinating and horrifying all at once.
At the same time I don’t want to see it shut down. Hopefully it offers an outlet and as baseball (hopefully) returns we can get back to business on other threads.
I keep hearing the word selfishness thrown around? What are some of the selfish activities you're speaking of?
@Iowamom23 posted:I don’t know if it’s ignorance or selfishness. I keep thinking I’ll just stop looking at this thread but it’s kind of like a train wreck—fascinating and horrifying all at once.
At the same time I don’t want to see it shut down. Hopefully it offers an outlet and as baseball (hopefully) returns we can get back to business on other threads.
I wish everyone here the best. I hope their families are well , I hope their son's get to the MLB and attain all of their goals.
We all have Baseball in Common..we have kids who play or have played a sport we all love.
This Virus thing is also a sport. A sport of human psychology..a sport in what really matters to you and your family?.. a sport of politics..
Has anyone here ever looked at many of the FB profiles of the people who always talk about:
"stay home/save lives" ,BLM, the mask police, "its about Science"...
what do most have in common?
and that ,my baseball friends ,is the answer
@Iowamom23 posted:I don’t know if it’s ignorance or selfishness. I keep thinking I’ll just stop looking at this thread but it’s kind of like a train wreck—fascinating and horrifying all at once.
At the same time I don’t want to see it shut down. Hopefully it offers an outlet and as baseball (hopefully) returns we can get back to business on other threads.
This is an interesting posts, it kind of assumes the knife doesn't cut both ways...but I guess that is typical.
@fishnsail posted:I wish everyone here the best. I hope their families are well , I hope their son's get to the MLB and attain all of their goals.
We all have Baseball in Common..we have kids who play or have played a sport we all love.
This Virus thing is also a sport. A sport of human psychology..a sport in what really matters to you and your family?.. a sport of politics..
Has anyone here ever looked at many of the FB profiles of the people who always talk about:
"stay home/save lives" ,BLM, the mask police, "its about Science"...
what do most have in common?
and that ,my baseball friends ,is the answer
What do most have in common?
Bat : L Throw : L Think : L
@TerribleBPthrower posted:I keep hearing the word selfishness thrown around? What are some of the selfish activities you're speaking of?
I almost didn't answer this, but then realized there are plenty of comments in this thread that express what I mean — I'll summarize for you. I define selfishness as the people who seem to see no responsibility for each of us to do our best to take care of our community by wearing masks, staying home when possible, and curtailing our activities so the gal at Casey's who HAS to go to work isn't being forced to encounter people who are willing to risk their own health without realizing the trickle down affect on the rest of us.
I think we all have a responsibility to do our best to take care of our friends and neighbors. If we do that, maybe we will be able to reduce the disease the way other countries have and all of us return to a more normal life.
So here's a few of the greatest hits from this thread — all copied and pasted.
"In the past week the stores stopped limiting entry to a customer to square footage ratio. The grocery store isn’t offering wipes for the cart handles. The checkout lines aren’t regulated. Same for Home Depot. There’s been outdoor dining for a month. I haven’t worn a mask except where it’s required passing the restaurant hostess station."
"it's vital for everyone to remember their own health is their own responsibility- it does not in any way fall in the hands of someone else to protect your health."
"Actually I’m about to go on a twenty-mile bike ride, then attend a BBQ of about twenty friends at the lake. "
"People die, that is what they do. it isn't going to stop...doesn't matter how you feel about it. The country is past stopping, they are done with it, again your feelings are not relevant because we need to live. "
"Just live how you want to and make decisions based on your own health"
I'm finding it interesting that son is playing in the Northwoods league — so far we've heard of one case in a team not in his pod. The games we've been to seem to be pretty socially distanced, lots of people wearing masks. Similar to a group of college kids pulled together and playing at our minor league stadium. They've been going about three weeks and I don't think any cases.
However, saw an article today that 57 of our high school baseball and softball teams have been shut down due to cases. Not sure if high schools are being more careful to shut down on a dime, or if the numbers reflect the fact that few people at those games are maintaining any social distance or wearing masks.
What if I think it’s selfish for you to expect people to be willing to lose their business, home, livelihood, mental health so that you aren’t exposed to a virus that has a decreasing death rate down to be not far from the flu? And if you are staying home and wearing a mask, aren’t you safe from these people? Many businesses are begging for people to be out so they don’t shutter forever. Or what if I decide that it’s selfish for you to go out during flu season because it can be very dangerous? Where does selfishness end and become just living? I have a feeling it is all in the lens you look through.
@adbono posted:What do most have in common?
Bat : L Throw : L Think : L
When you sit on the far right, everything is going to appear left. Too bad for sure that folks put a "political" label to try and stay away from facts.
All of this "me, me" "my rights" and "left" stuff would never be tolerated in a well run baseball team at the HS or college level. Every player gives up me for I. I wonder how many of those expressing "distaste" by classifying those facts and opinions they do not like as left also wear a shirt saying there is no "I' in "team?"
Our son-in-law is a doctor who works in a hospital. He has to be incredibly careful and aware to protect our daughter and grandchildren. Of course he also needs to protect himself, his mother and friends. His family is unable to plan anything beyond a few days any time there is a spike, like there is now. So those who cavalierly talk about "me" and "my" and living "my life" seem to be completely unaware or uncaring that every spike has a medical consequence which causes a large population of medical providers, among others (employers too) to need to reassess and readjust.
Apple, among other businesses, had to re-close a number of stores. The "my life" attitude contributed to the impact on every employee who worked in those stores.
I try to stay informed on what the other side says in a political debate, which is what all things Covid have become, though TBH it's difficult for me to understand how something so simple like wearing a mask has become political. Maybe now that even the White House is advocating it that will change. Or maybe people will still freak out at the grocery store and go viral.
Anyway, I do appreciate those who bring value to the discussion from the other side. Posts on infection rates and the link to the article about the health danger to students from not being in school come to mind. But the personal attack on TPM and the whole "stop being a pussy type of post" would not have been tolerated here previously. Not sure why it is now. I've tried blocking a couple folks but that doesn't work too well.
Anyway, as long as we're (mostly) arguing about masks and staying in vs going out and not baseball here, how about a new topic.
Who's a Bull and who's a Bear?
I don't think this will break down left and right like Covid policy does, but we'll see.
That is one experience. Our friend who works in our local hospital Er has had his hours cut in half and he is one of the lucky ones who wasn't furloughed to make room for the all Covid patients that aren't there. And this is in Texas where the sky is literally falling based on everything you read.
@baseballhs posted:What if I think it’s selfish for you to expect people to be willing to lose their business, home, livelihood, mental health so that you aren’t exposed to a virus that has a decreasing death rate down to be not far from the flu? And if you are staying home and wearing a mask, aren’t you safe from these people? Many businesses are begging for people to be out so they don’t shutter forever. Or what if I decide that it’s selfish for you to go out during flu season because it can be very dangerous? Where does selfishness end and become just living? I have a feeling it is all in the lens you look through.
Businesses here are open, including my favorite restaurants. We get carry out from them at least twice a week, and ate in once. They don't require servers to wear masks, so we won't eat in again (which the real loss there is the alcohol sales).
I've said it before and I'll say it again — businesses can beg all they want. People will only go where and when they feel safe.
I agree it is all the lens you look through. My lens says doing whatever you want today risks hurting all of us down the road in terms of new lockdowns, colleges that can't go back, schools that can't reopen, kids who can't play baseball.
@infielddad posted:When you sit on the far right, everything is going to appear left. Too bad for sure that folks put a "political" label to try and stay away from facts.
All of this "me, me" "my rights" and "left" stuff would never be tolerated in a well run baseball team at the HS or college level. Every player gives up me for I. I wonder how many of those expressing "distaste" by classifying those facts and opinions they do not like as left also wear a shirt saying there is no "I' in "team?"
Our son-in-law is a doctor who works in a hospital. He has to be incredibly careful and aware to protect our daughter and grandchildren. Of course he also needs to protect himself, his mother and friends. His family is unable to plan anything beyond a few days any time there is a spike, like there is now. So those who cavalierly talk about "me" and "my" and living "my life" seem to be completely unaware or uncaring that every spike has a medical consequence which causes a large population of medical providers, among others (employers too) to need to reassess and readjust.
Apple, among other businesses, had to re-close a number of stores. The "my life" attitude contributed to the impact on every employee who worked in those stores.
I don’t sit on the far right so you are off base on that presumption.
@JCG posted:I try to stay informed on what the other side says in a political debate, which is what all things Covid have become, though TBH it's difficult for me to understand how something so simple like wearing a mask has become political. Maybe now that even the White House is advocating it that will change. Or maybe people will still freak out at the grocery store and go viral.
I'll remind you - when 1200 doctors sign an open letter saying that protesting BLM is important and necessary but any other type of protesting should be stopped, it became political. They medical community threw itself on to the trash heap of politics, and now people don't believe/trust them.
@JCG posted:I try to stay informed on what the other side says in a political debate, which is what all things Covid have become, though TBH it's difficult for me to understand how something so simple like wearing a mask has become political. Maybe now that even the White House is advocating it that will change. Or maybe people will still freak out at the grocery store and go viral.
Anyway, I do appreciate those who bring value to the discussion from the other side. Posts on infection rates and the link to the article about the health danger to students from not being in school come to mind. But the personal attack on TPM and the whole "stop being a pussy type of post" would not have been tolerated here previously. Not sure why it is now. I've tried blocking a couple folks but that doesn't work too well.
Anyway, as long as we're (mostly) arguing about masks and staying in vs going out and not baseball here, how about a new topic.Who's a Bull and who's a Bear?
I don't think this will break down left and right like Covid policy does, but we'll see.
I agree that when it goes personal attacks (which go both ways) it goes to far. Short of that, I am fine with all of the viewpoints.
The mask thing, I also agree, is silly. If the government can shut down businesses, which they can, then they can mandate wearing masks, which I think is far better than shutting them down. On the other hand, I don't think it is selfish to want kids to go back to school and/or to do what we can to keep businesses open (which is why I support mask mandates, where appropriate).
I think there are many who want others to make sacrifices for them (on both sides). For instance, many teachers/College faculty are doing what they can to not do any face to face unless covid is completely done (one teacher's union states that there needs to be 14 days without a single new case). What none of them are willing to do, though, is take a pay cut to go to fully online. Personally, I'd like to give them a choice, as if College kids do not get face to face instruction, they should not be required to pay full tuition. Same for teachers pay, as we have an online public school that doesn't pay as well as face to face teachers. They should get that online fee.
Baseball Questions for - baseballhs - terrible BP thrower - Old School - fishnsail
1. Who is your favorite player? Why?
2. When you played College baseball were you a pitcher or hitter?
3. Did your son attend the Area Code tryouts? Where? Did we meet?
Bob
@baseballhs posted:What if I think it’s selfish for you to expect people to be willing to lose their business, home, livelihood, mental health so that you aren’t exposed to a virus that has a decreasing death rate down to be not far from the flu? And if you are staying home and wearing a mask, aren’t you safe from these people? Many businesses are begging for people to be out so they don’t shutter forever. Or what if I decide that it’s selfish for you to go out during flu season because it can be very dangerous? Where does selfishness end and become just living? I have a feeling it is all in the lens you look through.
“Staying home when possible”. As defined by who? I’m going to play devils advocate here for a minute. Your son (Iowa) is playing baseball now, right? (I think that’s wonderful by the way). But is that selfish? Is it selfish for you to gather, to watch? Maybe it should only be the parents of position players that get to watch? (I don’t think so).
Some of the remarks on this thread lead me to believe that the commenters think that it IS selfish.
Do we really want the gob’mint to decide what is selfish and what isn’t? Or do we as a people want unadulterated information, to use, to make informed choices? I think we all have quite a bit in common (on this website).
@JCG posted:I try to stay informed on what the other side says in a political debate, which is what all things Covid have become, though TBH it's difficult for me to understand how something so simple like wearing a mask has become political. Maybe now that even the White House is advocating it that will change. Or maybe people will still freak out at the grocery store and go viral.
Anyway, I do appreciate those who bring value to the discussion from the other side. Posts on infection rates and the link to the article about the health danger to students from not being in school come to mind. But the personal attack on TPM and the whole "stop being a pussy type of post" would not have been tolerated here previously. Not sure why it is now. I've tried blocking a couple folks but that doesn't work too well.
Anyway, as long as we're (mostly) arguing about masks and staying in vs going out and not baseball here, how about a new topic.Who's a Bull and who's a Bear?
I don't think this will break down left and right like Covid policy does, but we'll see.
Bull, but not for long. I think we’re due for another fall to around 20k. When/if that happens I’ll load up like I did at 18k. Used my play money day trade account to pay for my son’s private school tuition this year and then some.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Bull, but not for long. I think we’re due for another fall to around 20k. When/if that happens I’ll load up like I did at 18k. Used my play money day trade account to pay for my son’s private school tuition this year and then some.
Most people don't think about the market in the right way. If you're heavily invested, still funding and years out from retirement, you should LOVE it when the market collapses - every dollar you invest buys MORE shares. If you're planning on retiring in the next two years, though, it's an entirely different situation.
@RoadRunner posted:“Staying home when possible”. As defined by who? I’m going to play devils advocate here for a minute. Your son (Iowa) is playing baseball now, right? (I think that’s wonderful by the way). But is that selfish? Is it selfish for you to gather, to watch? Maybe it should only be the parents of position players that get to watch? (I don’t think so).
Some of the remarks on this thread lead me to believe that the commenters think that it IS selfish.
Do we really want the gob’mint to decide what is selfish and what isn’t? Or do we as a people want unadulterated information, to use, to make informed choices? I think we all have quite a bit in common (on this website).
I don't know if it's selfish to play. I think it's somewhat dangerous. And I think the few kids who have gone out to sample night life are being selfish by putting it all at risk rather than consider how lucky they are to be playing when so many others can't.
I probably am being selfish to some degree by going to games — they do a nice job with video broadcasts so we could watch from home. But the stadium is taking this seriously. Social distancing is maintained, A surprising number of fans are wearing masks. And I work from home so rarely get to see others anyway. So we go and financially support them to the extent we can. We are very grateful for what they have been able to do and regard every game we get to see as a gift, not a right.
In Iowa my friends and I made a drinking game of our governor's press conferences. Whenever she said "Iowans need to be safe and responsible" we'd make a note to have some wine at our next Zoom drinking fest. But I guess that's what it boils down to. If people are safe and responsible, wear masks, social distance, and really prioritize why and what they go out for, we don't need government to get involved. When people don't make those informed choices for themselves, then I think government has to get involved.