Most importantly, it's vital for everyone to remember their own health is their own responsibility- it does not in any way fall in the hands of someone else to protect your health.
CLANG!!!!! Give that many a teddy bear. He rang the bell.
@TPM posted:Kudos to your Governor for doing what he did to help stop the spread, legal or not.
Don't believe everything you hear on the news! DeSantis didn't do anything to stop the spring breakers, close down beach bars, close beaches, or stop planes from flying in. It was a zoo. People from NY, NJ came down to stay with the grandparents. It was the individuals communities that kicked them out. Any one from out of town had to stay indoors. That forced everyone to leave. Temperatures were to be taken as people got off the plan, didn't happen. People came here sick.
He didn't protect the elderly right away. And he did not protect the health care workers who cared for them either. The man doesn't even know how to put on a mask! Just in the last week because of the numbers, he finally suggested wearing a mask may help. He made an ass of himself.
The seriousness of this is that there is or never was a national plan. States had to figure it out on their own to protect their citizens and people got pissed. Too bad. This weekend Miami Dade has a curfew and a mask in place order.
So where are we now. Governor of South Carolina threatens no football, Pac 12 out west wondering what to do. NCAA thinking lets try this next spring. Universities and colleges wondering how are we going to get these Kids back on campus without them getting sick. MLB trying to keep guys healthy, another Miami Heat player is sick, haven't heard much about the NFL except changing the anthem, and race car driver Jimmie Johnson test positive.
And people actually still arguing about wearing a mask!
Ah, I think I am beginning to understand now! If we all wear masks the following will occur:
1. Football will be played in SC
2. PAC 12 will know what to do and NCAA will know things are good for the fall season
3. Universities and colleges will welcome all kids back without worrying they will get sick
4. MLB players will all be healthy
5. Miami Heat player would not be sick
6. NFL would let everyone know what they are doing and would announce their new anthem
7. Jimmie Johnson would not test positive
Thanks! That really clears everything up! I guess that means the virus would be gone! Awesome! I'm going to go buy another box of masks my local Home Depot has stacked on pallets at the store entrance!
I asked my physician 2 months ago about the shutdown. My specific question was this - Will it keep anyone from getting sick and dying?
Her response was not surprising to me....it was: No. Only a true vaccine or staying in lock down until we have one will stop this from running its course. Of course limiting exposure whenever and however you can is prudent.
Seems fairly obvious to me that this is exactly what is unfolding.
To the extent people mingled and swapped air too closely then you get more cases. Is it worth the risk to reopen? I think it is but I am open to the idea that limiting tight indoor crowds still has merit.
More testing revels a truer picture of exposure to the virus. That is all it does. Those people were there before but we weren't testing as broadly. More information does not change the underlying situation in actuality.
As for he political slant of the shutdown Abraham Lincoln in his infinite wisdom provides a compass:
“Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power
My old Italian grandma had the corollary: Actions speak loader than words.....show'em who you really are and never be shy about it.
Might be a good idea to do that, especially when your son goes to school. Probably will be mandatory.
Here's my point. All this is happening but we are arguing about masks. Maybe if more people wore them, we wouldn't be where we are right now.
You can argue the point that masks don't stop transmission, but I believe they do. Proof is when it was mandatory, the case rate went down. As soon as things opened up and no more masks, cases are up. Of course we must open up, but can we be smart about it.
Social distancing works, but when you find that's not an option, where a mask.
@James G posted:
DeSantis has done a phenomenal job. He protected the elderly right away compared to other states and the FL death count per population is wildly better than comparable states.
Agreed DeSantis has done a great job! Especially when compared to the disastrous Gov's in the NY, NJ and CT. However, since this is a baseball board lets talk about DeSantis and Baseball. His Wiki bio states that he was a member of the Dunedin little league team that went to the LLWS in 1991 and he played baseball at Yale, where he ended up as captain. Great Gov with a true love of the game.
IMO, in FL it's bars, beaches, and indifference that is one cause of the rise.The push to have money flowing again has proved to be greater than the caution of imposed lock downs. The profit level of alcohol is too great a siren for businesses greatly affected.
I live in a beach town and without a doubt the number of "foreigners" increases dramatically on the weekend. Many come from areas where things are much worse. Our numbers were similar to another community about 45 minutes north of us until beaches started reopening. Our numbers went up as we moved to phase 2, but the other community did not (too far to drive I suppose). Once the bars reopened, especially the outdoor ones - the numbers went up faster. We had one bar manager tell my wife it's OK to not force social distancing here because we're an open air bar (we didn't stay). It's simple math and cause/effect. Since I prefer to not chance it, I avoid certain areas and wear a mask. No one has to "force" that upon me. Walking on the beach is funny - avoiding people at one time was considered somewhat rude, but now it's rude not to try and walk "around" or at least 6 feet apart.
The reporting of numbers by the media has changed - back in March/April it was the totality cases, deaths, test ratios, etc. Now it seems only cases are reported. Back in March/April if you called into a doctor's office with symptoms they wouldn't ask you to rush into the office to take a test - so you weren't counted. At the drive up test sites not everyone could be tested "back then" only those exhibiting symptoms; however, now anyone can go to a drive up test. So you're changing one variable and polluting the statistics. Yes there will be more positive tests the more people you test - that's simple logic. How many of those are unique tests? We'll probably never know - it doesn't fit the narrative. There is a need to be fearful, but does it really need to be to the detriment of all? Why is it some people just cannot be trusted to be smart, aware, careful, and respectful.
@JohnF posted:IMO, in FL it's bars, beaches, and indifference that is one cause of the rise.The push to have money flowing again has proved to be greater than the caution of imposed lock downs. The profit level of alcohol is too great a siren for businesses greatly affected.
I live in a beach town and without a doubt the number of "foreigners" increases dramatically on the weekend. Many come from areas where things are much worse. Our numbers were similar to another community about 45 minutes north of us until beaches started reopening. Our numbers went up as we moved to phase 2, but the other community did not (too far to drive I suppose). Once the bars reopened, especially the outdoor ones - the numbers went up faster. We had one bar manager tell my wife it's OK to not force social distancing here because we're an open air bar (we didn't stay). It's simple math and cause/effect. Since I prefer to not chance it, I avoid certain areas and wear a mask. No one has to "force" that upon me. Walking on the beach is funny - avoiding people at one time was considered somewhat rude, but now it's rude not to try and walk "around" or at least 6 feet apart.
The reporting of numbers by the media has changed - back in March/April it was the totality cases, deaths, test ratios, etc. Now it seems only cases are reported. Back in March/April if you called into a doctor's office with symptoms they wouldn't ask you to rush into the office to take a test - so you weren't counted. At the drive up test sites not everyone could be tested "back then" only those exhibiting symptoms; however, now anyone can go to a drive up test. So you're changing one variable and polluting the statistics. Yes there will be more positive tests the more people you test - that's simple logic. How many of those are unique tests? We'll probably never know - it doesn't fit the narrative. There is a need to be fearful, but does it really need to be to the detriment of all? Why is it some people just cannot be trusted to be smart, aware, careful, and respectful.
Have you seen any reports that can directly link beaches to outbreaks. I’m not trying to be a smartass. I’m really curious. I haven’t seen any. Now the beach bars, that’s a different story.
The question about opening up or not comes down to economics. Is there enough consumer confidence to produce enough return to normality to justify the risk? They keep showing people fighting about masks on full planes, but in fact there are 60% fewer flights than last year. That industry is in free-fall. They keep showing bars full of people, but what is the national story about restaurants? If colleges don't come back, that will have a serious impact on many towns. Unemployment means fewer people spending money. Are those who are employed spending their money on different things? Many are not.
Those leaders who refused to model and require safety measures that are reasonable and unintrusive (such as mask-wearing in indoor public places), bear a lot of blame. More infections means more deaths period. More to the point, the rising numbers have reduced consumer confidence again.
I think that some young people know enough to distinguish between what they do when with their friends, and whether or not they should wear a mask in the presence of people who are more vulnerable. And then some young people are idiots. The problem is not about people who have the resources to shelter away from the idiots, it's about the people who are required because of jobs, living conditions, etc. to be exposed to them.
The reality is that the more time that goes on, the more treatments and knowledge about how to deal with this illness there are. The later anyone gets sick, the more likely there will be a better outcome. That may already be happening, but it's not there yet.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Have you seen any reports that can directly link beaches to outbreaks. I’m not trying to be a smartass. I’m really curious. I haven’t seen any. Now the beach bars, that’s a different story.
No, but then again I don't go looking for them either. The sign says, no groups larger than 10 and stay 6 feet apart, but the reality is very much so different. I can certainly draw my own personal conclusions especially when the number of positive cases goes up. Bars weren't open initially - I believe they only exacerbated the problem. There are those that draw sand squares, but there are those that ignore your personal space too. The closer you get to the water, the denser (multiple meanings ;-)) the crowd. Not everyone is infected, but it only takes one...
During the first couple of weeks large groups were asked to disperse, but after a while doing that would have been a full time job for multiple employees over our 5 mile stretch of beach. In other countries I've been told at beaches there's been restrictions put in place which have been adhered to. Of course those countries also had greater restrictions on the freedom of movement and large fines (500 euros) for those who failed to comply. My day job gives me the opportunity to talk with and hear from people in multiple countries (Spain, Germany, France, Israel, Czech Republic, England, Ireland, Belgium, Italy) - it's very different for them.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Have you seen any reports that can directly link beaches to outbreaks. I’m not trying to be a smartass. I’m really curious. I haven’t seen any. Now the beach bars, that’s a different story.
No, but my daughter and family are in Marco Island and leaving today because beach is too crowded as well as the pool area. Social distancing went out the window.
@RJM posted:Greater Portland, Maine (five county area) is 650,000. Despite tripling testing positives results are down in the state. There hasn’t been a death in over a week. There were only 105 deaths in a 1,344,000 population state.
Wait, a few months ago you were complaining that the governor had locked down the state too much, and it was unnecessary. Now you are complaining that there are not many cases? Do you not see the inconsistency in that? Maybe, just maybe, the governor of Maine has done everything right.
@anotherparent posted:Wait, a few months ago you were complaining that the governor had locked down the state too much, and it was unnecessary. Now you are complaining that there are not many cases? Do you not see the inconsistency in that? Maybe, just maybe, the governor of Maine has done everything right.
My position all along has been the over the top lockdown in the state versus the low number of cases.
The point of the post you are referencing is the panic Fauci created (along with heavy reinforcement of the Governor and a Alert leaning, one newspaper state ) with his 100,000 per day prediction.
The governor and the newspaper have done a great job of convincing Democrat followers in Maine we have a NYC sized epidemic on our hands. Today the governor announced due to the 106 and 107 deaths in the state (two more people over 80 who have likely been in the hospital a couple of months) she needs to do a reversal and clamp down on people and businesses again.
It’s getting scary here. .00007% of the state has died. Everyone has been elderly and/or had preexisting conditions. I’d be shaking in my boots, but I don’t need to wear them while cowering in fear under my bed. Actually I’m about to go on a twenty-mile bike ride, then attend a BBQ of about twenty friends at the lake.
I'll be polite here because that's what this site is about.
I know a few people who have died of covid. One was 68 years old and in generally good health. He lasted two weeks on a ventilator before being declared brain dead. One was a 45 year old in very good health whose heart could not handle the strain of very low oxygen. The third was a 55 year old who despite being slightly overweight was otherwise in good health with no other co-morbidities.
I've known lots more folks who have died of cancer including my father and their deaths were no less horrible. However, I cannot catch cancer from another person, nor stroke nor heart attack. I can catch this. I had a full lung collapse that puts me in a high risk category despite good health otherwise. My wife is a very fit woman who was born with diabetes.
I would urge folks to use a bit more empathy when thinking about this issue. I would also urge you to consider that economies in Asia and Europe are back to business because they took swift, dramatic action to contain the virus - actions that Americans appear unwilling to accept. Perhaps that's why a country with 4% of the world's population has 25% of its cases.
Thanks and happy 4th to all.
@LuckyCat posted:This is evidence that doctors can be pretty dumb, just like the rest of us.
@adbono posted:Pretty telling that you didn’t get an answer to this question.
If I may take a stab at this. Ask most people what the three leading causes of death are in the US and most people can guess two of them. Heart issues and Cancer. The 3rd is elusive and shocking to most people. It is errors by medical care. 250k every year. That is a Johns Hopkins number.
As far as I can tell no one cares. There has never been a group of people with more trust and less scrutiny than medical. We trust them more than anyone else in our society. It is arguable that this a one of the worst mistakes in our society. Over my lifetime tens of millions have lost their lives. So when anyone questions Doctors it is completely legit.
The real question is why everyone isn't questioning them more closely all the time.
@LuckyCat posted:I'm going to listen to the infectious disease experts when it comes to whether it is a good idea for me, as an ordinary person just walking around at my grocery store or whatever, to be wearing a mask.
I think any medical doctor suggesting to his patients that they do not need to wear a mask when they are in public, especially when they are either indoors with other people or are in a situation where they cannot easily socially distance, is irresponsible and doing harm.
Hope you had a great fourth.
If you want to listen to a an expert on disease, assessing data, and analysis why not pick one of the most active, and respected individuals in this country, who by the way has pretty much nailed-it since early March. He hasn't had a political agenda, hasn't been trying to cover up any prior dire predictions by making new ones. Dr. John Ioannidis has been taking ridiculous criticism from media and fellow physicians alike for his disenting opinion, but he has been nailing-it on this virus and associated risks since March.
@Pedaldad posted:Hope you had a great fourth.
If you want to listen to a an expert on disease, assessing data, and analysis why not pick one of the most active, and respected individuals in this country, who by the way has pretty much nailed-it since early March. He hasn't had a political agenda, hasn't been trying to cover up any prior dire predictions by making new ones. Dr. John Ioannidis has been taking ridiculous criticism from media and fellow physicians alike for his disenting opinion, but he has been nailing-it on this virus and associated risks since March.
Well at least you admit you're listening to a dissenting opinion. That's progress. I'm not talking about modelers, actually. That would be another discussion. For whether face masks are a good idea, or at least a better-safe-than-sorry idea, with the current state of the science, I'll stick with this:
https://www.thelancet.com/jour...(20)31142-9/fulltext
Your views about masks as a healthcare practitioner are in the very small minority. And you should not be touting your medical credentials on a public board and then insinuating to others that they need not wear masks in indoor public settings.
Happy belated Fourth to you, to!
@Pedaldad posted:Hope you had a great fourth.
If you want to listen to a an expert on disease, assessing data, and analysis why not pick one of the most active, and respected individuals in this country, who by the way has pretty much nailed-it since early March. He hasn't had a political agenda, hasn't been trying to cover up any prior dire predictions by making new ones. Dr. John Ioannidis has been taking ridiculous criticism from media and fellow physicians alike for his disenting opinion, but he has been nailing-it on this virus and associated risks since March.
Good read. I pulled out his bigger points so people don't have to go digging. To the post that the US has 4% of the world's population but 25% of the cases (your full post was great by the way) I would point out that your analysis might be accurate or close to accurate based on the data available but it's likely way off to the reality of the situation as pointed out below;
“There are already more than 50 studies that have presented results on how many people in different countries and locations have developed antibodies to the virus,” Ioannidis, a Greek-American physician, told Greek Reporter. “Of course none of these studies are perfect, but cumulatively they provide useful composite evidence. A very crude estimate might suggest that about 150-300 million or more people have already been infected around the world, far more than the 10 million documented cases.”
Ioannidis said medical data suggest the fatality risk is far lower than earlier estimates had led policymakers to believe and “is almost 0%” for individuals under 45 years old. The median fatality rate is roughly 0.25 percent, however, because the risk “escalates substantially” for individuals over 85 and can be as high as 25 percent for debilitated people in nursing homes.
“The death rate in a given country depends a lot on the age-structure, who are the people infected, and how they are managed,” Ioannidis said. “For people younger than 45, the infection fatality rate is almost 0%. For 45 to 70, it is probably about 0.05-0.3%. For those above 70, it escalates substantially…”
Interesting as well as frightening. Frightening because for being the greatest country in the world, we seemed to have sucked at this whole thing. Being unprepared at handling a pandemic that is. I have never felt more unsafe living in the free world. Unsafe as to who do you believe. Definetly time for a change.
In the meantime, I will continue to wear a mask.
JMO
Happy Sunday.
First, OskiSD, thank you for your post, and I'm very sorry for your losses. Only one or two other people on here have posted about even knowing someone with COVID. That makes it harder to empathize.
Have you noticed that in the first month, there were several famous or semi-famous people who died of COVID-19? But since then, not? I assume that after the initial shock, people who were able to shelter and stay isolated, especially if they had risk factors, did so. The result, though, is that people who advocate society getting herd immunity (which Ioannidis does) do a certain amount of implicit victim-blaming. "Of course," they say, people with risk factors like diabetes and COPD and heart disease and obesity should shelter themselves, and if they don't do so, then oh well. Like the diabetic guy who went to a birthday party and then died. They ignore the fact that (a) almost 50% of the adult population has at least one of these risk factors, and (b) a large percentage of those people do jobs that cannot be done from home. Thus, the politicization of shutdowns has to do with people who are (or think they are) at low risk saying that they don't want to stay shut down because of the people with high risk. That is ugly. But that's why young people are going to bars.
Maybe what would make more people happy would be a coordinated central response that said, "if you have a co-morbidity, then we will pay the extra unemployment, or pay your employer so that you can stay home." I wonder how many people that would be? But then some people would say that is an intrusion into people's private health affairs. But, what else are we to do?
BTW, Ioannidis' actual interview can be found here: https://usa.greekreporter.com/...john-ioannidis-says/
He may be a good epidemiologist, but without taking into account the existing political situation in the US and around the world, I'm not sure that his "predictions" about the effect on society have much value. The impact of any natural event (like disease) is going to depend on what the situation was like before it hit.
Today the NY Times has an article about the range of data on infection fatality rates: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...&pgtype=Article, where it says that one recent study, based on 267 other studies, estimates the infection fatality rate at 0.64%. That is 2 million Americans, if everyone got infected.
Again... your area of expertise that makes you qualified to judge which experts have it right?
@baseballhs posted:Again... your area of expertise that makes you qualified to judge which experts have it right?
I’m with you on this. Nobody knows right now who is wrong and who is right. People seem to latch onto whichever “expert” fits their own predetermined narrative. Getting all worked up and arguing about who is wrong and right, based on subjective interpretations of different sets of reports and data seems to me to be a huge waste of time and energy.
On the epidemiology? None specifically.
On the question of believing experts? I am an expert at what I do; when someone proposes something that runs against the accepted wisdom, I am capable of assessing it and the evidence on which it is based, and making an expert conclusion. So, I assume that the same is true in other fields, from plumbing to astrophysics. If a large majority of people in a field support one idea, and a few people support another, I am more suspicious about the outlier than I am about the majority; I assume that once evidence is produced, experts will assess it appropriately.
Adbono, I don't argue with you about baseball, although there are those who do, and that is appropriate on this site, but is it a waste of time to argue with an expert?
I entirely accept that individuals have agendas that influence their interpretation of data. It's obvious that that has been done in this crisis. In some people there is a contrarian agenda, they want to say outrageous things because it gets them publicity. There are political agendas, which can mean anything from national politics to local workplace politics. I do not accept that an overwhelming majority of people in any field have the same agenda to crush "the truth," maybe that makes me an optimist. In this case, I believe that the majority of doctors and epidemiologists are trying their best to mitigate the effects of this disease, using the knowledge at their disposal. Why would they not?
I think what makes someone an expert in any field is a combination of training and experience. In the case of the Covid19 world pandemic a lot of people have had the requisite training but nobody has the experience. Therefore while many people are experts in the field of infectious diseases, nobody (at this point) is an expert on how to manage Covid19. So latching onto any particular source as the most credible is still a crapshoot. That’s my point.
@anotherparent posted:Today the NY Times has an article about the range of data on infection fatality rates: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...&pgtype=Article, where it says that one recent study, based on 267 other studies, estimates the infection fatality rate at 0.64%. That is 2 million Americans, if everyone got infected.
.64% is still too high but much lower than I would expect from a study pushed in the NY Times. I wish I could access this study to read further. Any chance they weighted the fatality rate more towards the current fatality rates vs the earlier rates? There have been advancements in therapeutics and standard of care, there have been articles on the virus mutating to become less deadly and more infections, also would love to see if how the study handled assumed died of covid and how it accounted for asymptomatic cases. The rates of death seem much lower now, perhaps due to these reasons, so if not weighted somehow it's likely too high, love to see tho. Is there a link to that study vs a link to the NY Times? I stopped reading the NY Times because the delivery person, yes a long time ago, kept speeding through my neighborhood but now I find the paper to be a tad too activist for my taste.
unsure what to make of this.... weird that it's not widely reported - HCQ effective?
https://www.mlive.com/news/202...th-system-study.html
DETROIT, MI — A new study from the Henry Ford Health System may provide more legitimacy on the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19.
Henry Ford published the peer-reviewed study on July 1, using a large-scale retrospective analysis of patients from March 10 to May 2. The study looked over 2,500 hospitalized patients from the Henry Ford’s six hospitals, said Dr. Marcus Zervos, division head of infectious disease for Henry Ford Health System.
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:Is there a link to that study vs a link to the NY Times? I stopped reading the NY Times because the delivery person, yes a long time ago, kept speeding through my neighborhood but now I find the paper to be a tad too activist for my taste.
Believe me, if there had been a link to that study, I would have put it instead of the NYTimes article! I know what people think of the NYT. No, there is no link, it seems to have been a WHO report that is not (yet) published.
@adbono posted:Therefore while many people are experts in the field of infectious diseases, nobody (at this point) is an expert on how to manage Covid19. So latching onto any particular source as the most credible is still a crapshoot. That’s my point.
I agree with you; but, what are we to do? Just do nothing until there is enough data? Err on the side of preventing disease transmission? Err on the side of economic collapse? Those are precisely what the arguments are about.
Having said that, I repeat what I said about experts. On Ioannidis, see this: https://www.wired.com/story/pr...-a-covid-contrarian/
@baseballhs posted:Again... your area of expertise that makes you qualified to judge which experts have it right?
There is only one person posting here who seems to be claiming to have expertise, and it's not me. I'm just like you and everyone one else here. No expertise in virology or infectious disease. That's what we have virologists and infectious disease experts for, and that's who I'm listening to.
@anotherparent posted:Have you noticed that in the first month, there were several famous or semi-famous people who died of COVID-19? But since then, not? I assume that after the initial shock, people who were able to shelter and stay isolated, especially if they had risk factors, did so.
Interestingly, right here in my own backyard, Freddy Freeman has just announced he contracted Covid-19 and was hit pretty hard. He has joined the chorus of people asking everyone to please, just wear a mask, if not for your own sake for everyone else's.
@anotherparent posted:Believe me, if there had been a link to that study, I would have put it instead of the NYTimes article! I know what people think of the NYT. No, there is no link, it seems to have been a WHO report that is not (yet) published.
Also, keep in mind that the W.H.O has been roundly criticized for being too slow and cautious in assessing the situation and in not putting out a consistent message that is the consensus among medical experts. Now THAT is an organization that has to be mindful of politics, and so it is very, very conservative in making recommendations or taking stands. Most would say too conservative and slow.
@anotherparent posted:I agree with you; but, what are we to do? Just do nothing until there is enough data? Err on the side of preventing disease transmission? Err on the side of economic collapse? Those are precisely what the arguments are about.
This is a serious pandemic and they ARE literally building the plane while flying it. They are going to get some things wrong and they are going to refine their understanding of how this virus works as they go along. We should listen to them anyway. We should certainly err on the side of caution, especially when it comes to easy and affordable prevention measures like social distancing, washing hands, and masks. We should be doing all of these things as much as we can for now.
Re Outliers
Pythagoras determined Earth is round in 600 BC. It took 300 years for educated people to accept it. It took 2,000 years for his theory to be generally accepted by the public.
Its interesting how quickly some people lashed back at the article Pedal presented. It’s easier to lash out than be forced to research and think through the possibility of a conflicting theory. Face it, COVID isn’t medical. It’s political. And too many people are locked in.
The reason so many people misunderstand so many issues is not that these issues are so complex, but that people do not want a factual or analytical explanation that leaves them emotionally unsatisfied.
- Thomas Sowell
@OskiSD posted:
I would urge folks to use a bit more empathy when thinking about this issue. I would also urge you to consider that economies in Asia and Europe are back to business because they took swift, dramatic action to contain the virus - actions that Americans appear unwilling to accept. Perhaps that's why a country with 4% of the world's population has 25% of its cases.
Thanks and happy 4th to all.
Thank you for your post with the above paragraph included. I have come to the conclusion, some folks lack the empathy and/or just don't care.
I too am very sorry that you have lost people close to you.
Considering the state that I live in, we do not, thank goodness know anyone who has passed away, or even has had the virus. I have one friend who was ill, but lives in North Carolina. Her husband who more than likely gave it to her and her kids, had health issues before he became ill and at 50 is not doing well.
@TPM posted:Thank you for your post with the above paragraph included. I have come to the conclusion, some folks lack the empathy and/or just don't care.
I too am very sorry that you have lost people close to you.
Considering the state that I live in, we do not, thank goodness know anyone who has passed away, or even has had the virus. I have one friend who was ill, but lives in North Carolina. Her husband who more than likely gave it to her and her kids, had health issues before he became ill and at 50 is not doing well.
Thanks - to be clear these weren't very close friends or immediate relatives. One was the father of my sister-in-law, another the brother of a close friend, and the third an old high school pal. It's definitely enough to make it real, though. Completely agree that it's a big, diverse country and the risk profile of a rural community is quite different from mine in San Diego (and New York and Los Angeles, where the deaths occurred). It's quite frustrating that we can't get a handle on this, but I'm still clinging to hope that things will change.
@OskiSD posted:Thanks - to be clear these weren't very close friends or immediate relatives. One was the father of my sister-in-law, another the brother of a close friend, and the third an old high school pal. It's definitely enough to make it real, though. Completely agree that it's a big, diverse country and the risk profile of a rural community is quite different from mine in San Diego (and New York and Los Angeles, where the deaths occurred). It's quite frustrating that we can't get a handle on this, but I'm still clinging to hope that things will change.
Either way, they were people you knew and the bottom line is that every life lost, young or old is a life lost due to COVID.
I understand about the geography, we are a suburb in Broward County, so we have to be careful.
It is frustrating that we can't get a handle on it. The US isn't looking good right now. Things HAVE to change.
A claim of 99 % of cases being totally harmless is totally ridiculous.
A claim of 99 % of cases being totally harmless is totally ridiculous.
Until you do the math and discover less than 1% are dying.
@TPM what the heck is going on in S FL? Are people there licking hand rails and shopping carts?
My wife’s uncle in Tampa tested positive yesterday. He’s 65 and pretty healthy. He’s smoked (not tobacco) since he was a teenager. He had the aches and a fever for about 24 hours and is feeling much better but not 100%.
@RJM posted:A claim of 99 % of cases being totally harmless is totally ridiculous.
Until you do the math and discover less than 1% are dying.
This "might" be true (I think its higher), however, I feel its not simply about the deaths. There are lingering after effects that we don't understand yet. Things like reduced lung capacity, liver issues and auto immune disorders that are materializing in teens and children. I'll take a hard pass on that stuff and really try to do whatever I can to not contract this virus. I have a close friend who did get the virus back in Feb. He travels quite a bit to Europe and believes he got it there. He's an avid soccer player and in great shape. After being sick for about a month he has sort of fully recovered. To this day he still has trouble running and breathing. His docs are not sure if he will ever be 100% again.
Flatten the curve for a few weeks to....eliminate the virus to....just wait 2 more weeks to....must wear a mask, and now that deaths aren't skyrocketing it's...now we don't know the lingering effects it may have...
The goal posts always shift
Another reason the strict lockdown and masks may not work? I believe close to 300 worldwide doctors have written to the WHO with evidence that this is much more airborne than originally revealed. If so it's useless to try and completely stop this as there is no way possible now. (Completely stop it is different than handle it as best we can).
We have never stopped the world for anything else before with a less than an average to below 1% fatality rate. Why have we done so now? Very curious.
Clock will be ticking before most of the public and parents realize the children's futures will be greatly altered for years to come, it's not just a temporary thing, and the tide will shift at that point.
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