quote:I can not make solid contact when trying to generate batspeed. Why?
"You cannot time a pitching machine" said Mike Epstein
"You cannot time a pitching machine" said Mike Epstein
"You cannot time a pitching machine" said Mike Epstein
What do you consider closed?
He rarely hit the ball the other way. In fact, it was his stubbornness that led to his poor postseason performance. The Cardinals were the first to shift three infielders to the right side of the infield and he steadfastly refused to go the other way, leading to a .200 post-season batting average. Dead pull and the best ever at it!
Definition of closed: front foot parallel with front of home. It can open slightly as long as the hands stay back and the hips are closed (in line with the pitcher).
Definition of closed: front foot parallel with front of home. It can open slightly as long as the hands stay back and the hips are closed (in line with the pitcher).
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
Ted Williams stated in his book that he closed his stance at the plate to hit opposite field......He felt this promoted an inside out swing, more like a push.....Jeter does the same thing......
Bluedog,
Thank you as well.
quote:Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
He rarely hit the ball the other way. In fact, it was his stubbornness that led to his poor postseason performance. The Cardinals were the first to shift three infielders to the right side of the infield and he steadfastly refused to go the other way, leading to a .200 post-season batting average. Dead pull and the best ever at it!
And what does this have to do with a hitting absolute?
Williams and Brett were mentioned. That's all.
quote:Originally posted by swingbuster:quote:I can not make solid contact when trying to generate batspeed. Why?
"You cannot time a pitching machine" said Mike Epstein
Do you have any other band aids?
Unlike you and your ideas, I still play and put the things I learn to test. And, it's against live pitching. Fast pitch softball. Easily the equivalent of 90+. With change ups, drops, rises......the works.
quote:Do you have any other band aids?
No just didn't want you to feel bad. Nobody can hit a ball well coming out of a tube going 90 with no notice. Not very natural
See my edited post.
Linear, you posted:
"I can stand in the batters box against 90+ and take a pepper like swing and make solid contact often. I can not make solid contact when trying to generate batspeed. Why? Reason is my mechanics don't let me be quick enough to catch up. What it takes me to generate batspeed is diametrically opposed to what it takes to get the barrel to the ball.
I've been trying to figure out what you mean for the past 10 minutes. Could you further explain? Thanks.
"I can stand in the batters box against 90+ and take a pepper like swing and make solid contact often. I can not make solid contact when trying to generate batspeed. Why? Reason is my mechanics don't let me be quick enough to catch up. What it takes me to generate batspeed is diametrically opposed to what it takes to get the barrel to the ball.
I've been trying to figure out what you mean for the past 10 minutes. Could you further explain? Thanks.
There is a huge difference between bat quickness and bat speed. Bat speed is just what it says....how fast the barrel is moving.
Bat quickness is your ability to get the barrel to the ball. Commonly called "long swing" and "short swing". A long swinger can generate good speed but it takes him to long to get the barrel up to that speed. One with a shorter swing is quicker to the ball but is likely to generate less bat speed.
Of course, you have the greats who have found how to do both.
The mechanics of each swing is very noticable when studying video.
Maybe the best example would be to put the slow pitch HR derby champion in the batters box against Nolan Ryan. The slow pitch player can generate tremendous bat speed. But, he can't do it quick enough to hit Nolan.
Bat quickness is your ability to get the barrel to the ball. Commonly called "long swing" and "short swing". A long swinger can generate good speed but it takes him to long to get the barrel up to that speed. One with a shorter swing is quicker to the ball but is likely to generate less bat speed.
Of course, you have the greats who have found how to do both.
The mechanics of each swing is very noticable when studying video.
Maybe the best example would be to put the slow pitch HR derby champion in the batters box against Nolan Ryan. The slow pitch player can generate tremendous bat speed. But, he can't do it quick enough to hit Nolan.
quote:Fast pitch softball
I guessed where all this was coming from..
Old men and girls
quote:Originally posted by swingbuster:quote:Fast pitch softball
I guessed where all this was coming from..
Old men and girls
90+ is 90+. (reaction time) Don't care who's throwing it.
I'm old. That's true. The guys I have to hit off aren't. I'm guessing mid 30's. Some from New Zealand. There are no girls in our league.
Linear, now I understand what you meant. Thanks.
Ah, but 90 ate me up when I was 22, 23 and 24 in the minors... Now, at 44, I just fear it from the stands!
quote:Originally posted by bbscout:
BBDad1228, He is an old dude like me and 90 would eat him up even if he had mechanics like Barry Bonds.
The pitching machine saga.
Quote "you cannot time a pitching machine" is incorrect. It depends what type of pitching machine you use. If you have the Master Machine with an arm on it, the machine is very easy to time.......
You're right scout. But I can pepper some hits when I want to swing like a sissy.
bbdad,
I cant even see 90+ from the stands anymore- or the batters box for that matter. LOL
I cant even see 90+ from the stands anymore- or the batters box for that matter. LOL
Thanks BBscout!
Kean University is in Union, New Jersey. The Cougars play in the New Jersey Athletic Conference, one of the best D-3 conferences in the country.
Oh my God, I think i was Googled!!!
Kean University is in Union, New Jersey. The Cougars play in the New Jersey Athletic Conference, one of the best D-3 conferences in the country.
Oh my God, I think i was Googled!!!
quote:I guessed where all this was coming from..
What I meant was the rewriting of the hitting text style from the original Ny-man work and the all new belief system about quickness and stuff. It sounded grounded in fastpitch hitting clinics that Steve puts on. And it was.......It is clear now. And Linears interest in that game too.... Why didn't you guys just say that in the first place. This site is HSBASEBALLWEB. We do allow golf commentary because I play that.
I just won a game of CLUE with my daughter too..COL Mustard , dining room , knife.
OK, I'll write it in long hand.
Swingbuster criticizes N Y M A N and Englishbey (accuses him/them of rewriting their hitting philosophy even though it is not true) because of some girls softball clinics.
Yet, Swingbuster conducts a workout today with two girls.
Amazing the things people bring up to discredit an overwhelming opponent.
He incinuates that hitting in baseball and softball are different. Even tries to include me because I play softball.
Please, would you sell out on those things so you can get your credibility back.
PS Buster, do you realize your partner in crime is heavy into softball. I can't wait to see a softball player hitting with an "arm action is king" swing
Swingbuster criticizes N Y M A N and Englishbey (accuses him/them of rewriting their hitting philosophy even though it is not true) because of some girls softball clinics.
Yet, Swingbuster conducts a workout today with two girls.
Amazing the things people bring up to discredit an overwhelming opponent.
He incinuates that hitting in baseball and softball are different. Even tries to include me because I play softball.
Please, would you sell out on those things so you can get your credibility back.
PS Buster, do you realize your partner in crime is heavy into softball. I can't wait to see a softball player hitting with an "arm action is king" swing
Well,
twiddle-dee, if you would answer questions instead of circling around them maybe just maybe we could see where you are coming from. I am still looking for the answer to where are clips from players you have coached but none can be found.
Scooter
twiddle-dee, if you would answer questions instead of circling around them maybe just maybe we could see where you are coming from. I am still looking for the answer to where are clips from players you have coached but none can be found.
Scooter
Linear,
As a coach I am willing to look at any ideas and see if they will help my players gain better success. So, I'll place a deal with you and I'll be honest with you if you go for this idea. You tell me about the hitting system you believe in from A to Z with explanations and give me drills or ways to do it and I will do it. I will do it today after I get home from school. You can e-mail me the information at scooter1234_39208@yahoo.com. After I try your approach, I will come on here and tell you honestly if it made a difference or not. However, I want step by step details before I try it and I'll even try it with my two sons.
Scooter
As a coach I am willing to look at any ideas and see if they will help my players gain better success. So, I'll place a deal with you and I'll be honest with you if you go for this idea. You tell me about the hitting system you believe in from A to Z with explanations and give me drills or ways to do it and I will do it. I will do it today after I get home from school. You can e-mail me the information at scooter1234_39208@yahoo.com. After I try your approach, I will come on here and tell you honestly if it made a difference or not. However, I want step by step details before I try it and I'll even try it with my two sons.
Scooter
No Thanks.
quote:Jack Mankin
I know you read this site....You've copied the batspeed/bat quickness information from here to start the thread at your site.
Oh brother.
Haven't you realized by now that they're siamese twins? When Blue Dog says something, Linear agrees with it almost right away, and vice versa.quote:You and linear need to get your own life-- speak for yourself--
You're on the Olympic team??? Well why didn't ya say so!quote:Easily the equivalent of 90+. With change ups, drops, rises......the works.
[quote]Yet, Swingbuster conducts a workout today with two girls.
Linear ask if I compared her to the best 10th graders in the world after I stated she hit well.
Now how was I going to do that?
I do hear a shift from Mark H saying 100,000 times "compare everything you hear to the clips of the best hitters in the world" . I am not being a jerk; I honestly hear a shift to a specific quickness theme.
Again, thats fine but don't hold your breath and turn blue if we all don't care to do that.
Secondly, if it is their training drill it is original and has a purpose. If it someone elses drill it is damaging. The reason: they said so...the burden of proof lies elsewhere always
Don't blurr the line between video reality and opinions about training. That is all they are for any of us
I understand dogmatic statements based in video reality but you should not use the same "pound the table" do this or that when certain things are merely your opinion or a new drill you are using.
Why does Coach David Perno at Georgia use the stop and go tee drill and the walk up drill daily? Two distictly different feels.
Please answer that.
Put it in writing that he is clueless and ruining his team for this board to see. These are drills you would not likely use but he has been to Omaha I believe.
It would be better to say, we suggest you try this as it seems to help many kids. That would be believable and never offensive to people that have been around the block too.
My statement is simple and remains the same based on my "testing" and it is based on MY OPINION and my limited understanding of course.
Bat barrel action accelerating the bat barrel back toward the catcher trumps turn flail in getting the angular displacement for me.
The device...will be around after we are both gone. Why? ...kids like it and many coaches like having it.
Why would some MLB players, NAIA national champion coaches buy it and Mike Epstein use it in coaching certification program?
Yes, you will have the answer to that to but again it will be opinion masked as fact.
Good luck to all as we explore better ways to coach the game.
Happy New Year...even you Linear...you keep the rating high at HSBBWEB
Linear ask if I compared her to the best 10th graders in the world after I stated she hit well.
Now how was I going to do that?
I do hear a shift from Mark H saying 100,000 times "compare everything you hear to the clips of the best hitters in the world" . I am not being a jerk; I honestly hear a shift to a specific quickness theme.
Again, thats fine but don't hold your breath and turn blue if we all don't care to do that.
Secondly, if it is their training drill it is original and has a purpose. If it someone elses drill it is damaging. The reason: they said so...the burden of proof lies elsewhere always
Don't blurr the line between video reality and opinions about training. That is all they are for any of us
I understand dogmatic statements based in video reality but you should not use the same "pound the table" do this or that when certain things are merely your opinion or a new drill you are using.
Why does Coach David Perno at Georgia use the stop and go tee drill and the walk up drill daily? Two distictly different feels.
Please answer that.
Put it in writing that he is clueless and ruining his team for this board to see. These are drills you would not likely use but he has been to Omaha I believe.
It would be better to say, we suggest you try this as it seems to help many kids. That would be believable and never offensive to people that have been around the block too.
My statement is simple and remains the same based on my "testing" and it is based on MY OPINION and my limited understanding of course.
Bat barrel action accelerating the bat barrel back toward the catcher trumps turn flail in getting the angular displacement for me.
The device...will be around after we are both gone. Why? ...kids like it and many coaches like having it.
Why would some MLB players, NAIA national champion coaches buy it and Mike Epstein use it in coaching certification program?
Yes, you will have the answer to that to but again it will be opinion masked as fact.
Good luck to all as we explore better ways to coach the game.
Happy New Year...even you Linear...you keep the rating high at HSBBWEB
Bluedog,
As a coach I am willing to look at any ideas and see if they will help my players gain better success. So, I'll place a deal with you and I'll be honest with you if you go for this idea. You tell me about the hitting system you believe in from A to Z with explanations and give me drills or ways to do it and I will do it. I will do it today after I get home from school. You can e-mail me the information at scooter1234_39208@yahoo.com. After I try your approach, I will come on here and tell you honestly if it made a difference or not. However, I want step by step details before I try it and I'll even try it with my two sons. Will you accept the deal or will you back step like Linear.
Scooter
As a coach I am willing to look at any ideas and see if they will help my players gain better success. So, I'll place a deal with you and I'll be honest with you if you go for this idea. You tell me about the hitting system you believe in from A to Z with explanations and give me drills or ways to do it and I will do it. I will do it today after I get home from school. You can e-mail me the information at scooter1234_39208@yahoo.com. After I try your approach, I will come on here and tell you honestly if it made a difference or not. However, I want step by step details before I try it and I'll even try it with my two sons. Will you accept the deal or will you back step like Linear.
Scooter
I'll offer a simple way to teach hitting, how I learned it from coaches in my past.
1 - always be comfortable in the box
2 - be balanced, with weight on balls of feet in the athletic position, weight 60-40 on back side
3 - stance slightly wider than shoulders
4 - knock knuckles lined up, back elbow down
5 - load hands 2-3 inches behind ear
6 - short, closed stride (just a timing devise)
HEAD DOWN
7 - back hip trigger, hands first then barrel to the ball. Hands through hitting zone will facilitate weight transfer and hips popping
8 - hit through the ball and finish high.
Just basic stuff.
1 - always be comfortable in the box
2 - be balanced, with weight on balls of feet in the athletic position, weight 60-40 on back side
3 - stance slightly wider than shoulders
4 - knock knuckles lined up, back elbow down
5 - load hands 2-3 inches behind ear
6 - short, closed stride (just a timing devise)
HEAD DOWN
7 - back hip trigger, hands first then barrel to the ball. Hands through hitting zone will facilitate weight transfer and hips popping
8 - hit through the ball and finish high.
Just basic stuff.
baseballdad1228,
uh oh!
Good stuff, but get ready! 
uh oh!
Good stuff, but get ready!
quote:Originally posted by swingbuster:
I do hear a shift from Mark H saying 100,000 times "compare everything you hear to the clips of the best hitters in the world" . I am not being a jerk; I honestly hear a shift to a specific quickness theme.
Compared to most of the posters at the "other" sites, you've spent less than 10% as much time.
Yet, you feel qualified to suggest a "shift".
You are really bitter. Invested a lot of money in it and it doesn't help.......Proven. Yet, you've got to get even...........It happens. And you'll take others down with you.
PG, there are icons for smiles and applause, you can even wish someone a happy birthday. I'm looking for the "Get in the foxhole" icon. 
quote:Don't blurr the line between video reality and opinions about training
I have been to the ABCA and many clinics where D-1 Coaches and MLB coaches speak and I have never seen any one of them as positive about every aspect of what they believe as you guys. Yet, they hold the top coaching jobs in the country.
Don't tell other people how much time they spend because that is something you really have no idea about.
Passion for a subject creates a positive energy applied to something you love to help others people you care about . It is highly inclusive, and open minded.
Obsession is a negative emotion rooted in fear and greed while holding on to something you think others want and refusing to fully share it. It is designed to be exclusive and closed minded
Even before I started this thread have you been promoting your thoughts in a positive or negative way?
The reason for teaching knock knuckles lined up and back elbow down is to prevent a loop in the swing. I was taught this "trick" while in the minors with the White Sox, whe Charley Lau ruled the world of baseball hitters. The elbow will raise as you load your hands. It works pretty well with Little League kids and shortens their swing, getting them to the baseball faster.
George Brett's picture notwithstanding...
George Brett's picture notwithstanding...
I'll make a deal with you. You stop knocking the truth and I'll stop pointing it out.
Lau...but the kids I teach aren't George Brett...
quote:I'll stop pointing it out.
Let differentiate openly what is fact and what is opinion.
Both can be valuable but only one is certain.
Peace!
Try picking up a bat and holding it like Brett does in your photos. Don't let your hands move and try and take the barrel from launch position to the hitting zone without looping the barrel behind you. You won't be able to do it. Boxed knuckles are best utilized when chopping wood. This technique is not incorrect instruction, just a teaching tool to get kids to hold the bat in their fingers and prevent a loop. My experience is that this works well with young hitters.
BBScout, you can dig up Babe Ruth and show me a clip of a bat in his dead hands if you would like. The theory of teaching hitting with the bat in your fingers and the knock knuckles lined up is sound. If players get older and find it more comfortable to rotate the top hand and can still get to the ball, that's great for them. I coach Little League and was taught this philosophy by professional hitting instructors that I trusted as a player. I found it works with the players I've coached. Incorrect? Who is to judge? Lots of different ways to hit, don't you think? And wasn't this a thread on how we each teach hitting? Kind of arrogant for you to pass judgement, IMO.
bbdad1228,
Just an observation/comment:
I dont think it is arrogant at all. I think it is bbscouts opinion. And I dont think your opinion is arrogant either.
He doesnt agree with you - and vice versa.
Typically - on this site - we throw stuff out there - people disagree - sometimes vehemently LOL - and the readers decide who they think is right.
Personally - I dont like any absolute rule for "lining up knuckles". That doesnt make me arrogant. Its just my opinion.
In this forum in particular (tends to get hot in here sometimes LOL) - we should strive to debate the opinions - and leave the personal stuff out of it - for the benefit of all of our members IMO.
Just an observation/comment:
I dont think it is arrogant at all. I think it is bbscouts opinion. And I dont think your opinion is arrogant either.
He doesnt agree with you - and vice versa.
Typically - on this site - we throw stuff out there - people disagree - sometimes vehemently LOL - and the readers decide who they think is right.
Personally - I dont like any absolute rule for "lining up knuckles". That doesnt make me arrogant. Its just my opinion.
In this forum in particular (tends to get hot in here sometimes LOL) - we should strive to debate the opinions - and leave the personal stuff out of it - for the benefit of all of our members IMO.
I used the knocking knucles for little guys once.
It beats some grips but it will not work in a good rotational swing at all.
The bottom hand middle knuckles are into the plane of the pitch. The top hand knuckles are not at contact
It beats some grips but it will not work in a good rotational swing at all.
The bottom hand middle knuckles are into the plane of the pitch. The top hand knuckles are not at contact
Teach wrong first and fix later.
Everybody that has done that clap their hands
Everybody that has done that clap their hands
