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How will you teach hitting?

S swingbuster1,000+ posts
quote:
someone like Tom or even at times swingbuster decides to post things that make me feel like I don’t have the intelligence to keep up. Tom Guerry is the hitting version of Tom House


PG ... high level discussions and lo tech drills for now

Practice today consisted of hitting line drives up the middle off of a standard batting tee. Some tips and advice occassionally

When they can all do 8 of 10 we will move on.

All the info in the world is no good until they can practice and get some personal feedback from ball flight.
L Linear500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bbscout:
...Hubbell and Sauer were with the Giants minor league system for about 30 years apeice.Bobby Bonds, Mays, McCovey, Jim Ray Hart, Mathews, Foster Maddox, Kingman, J. Clark, C. Davis, W. Clark. All these guys were coached by Hank Sauer over a 30 year period. You don't see that going on now except in a very few cases.


Amen to that too.

It's good to agree with everything bbscout says..... Smile
L Linear500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bbscout:
...Pro ball.......they don't pay the minor league hitting coaches enough to get quality coaches. The good ex big league hitters don't want to coach because they made enough money to retire and play golf. They end up with many guys who just need a job and are good guys, so they are now hitting coaches. A $25,000 per year coach is trying to help the $2,000,000 bonus baby....


Yes, I agree with this too.

I can't imagine anything harder than a $25,000 coach getting a $2,000,000 ball player to listen.
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
Arguing about the stride and grip is entertaining to say the least.......

Itsinthegame, these questions you keep asking are entertaining, also.....You keep meaningless arguments going......It's some of your best work...........You may want to consider giving Bbscout a break, though......He's been quite busy teaching as of late........And, teaching stride and grip is hard work...... Wink
Last edited by BlueDog
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
I've said it before and I'm moved to say it again.....

Most have no idea where/how MLB hitters power their swing.......Some talk about the front foot striding open or closed but have no understanding of why some hitters can stride with an open front foot and hit well and some can't.......

Vision is very misunderstood, also.......Holding the head still is not the way to go......The head needs to be free to move........
S swingbuster1,000+ posts
Linear writes: On page one. A fair and accurate statement IMO

quote:
But, as they advance, they will have to learn something completely different to be successful. They will have to learn to load their center, create momentum by carrying the load into foot touch and launch with good connected rotation. Otherwise they will never develop the swing quickness to "catch up" to the pitching speeds they have to face.


You mentioned knowing how to load and unload properly. Would like some clarification...what you think as above ; not the what is wrong with what I think

Above where you say "load your center"...what energy can you create in the center besides

Hands back / foot open torque? TURN TORQUE

Or bend at the waist / unbend LEVER

Any other energy sources ? Bat knob TORQUE

What defines connection besides the spatial relation ship of the hips and the shoulders?

What visual markers( body part relationships) do you look at on clips to define connection ?

Where do you see slop if the torso is primed when the ball is half way home ?

B25...have you hit some tee work LD up the middle yet?
Last edited by swingbuster
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Doug,

If it were physically possible without affecting the swing itself, the best vision would result from a negative movement until launch and very little during the swing. This may be impossible, but there is no question it allows the hitter the very best vision and tracking.

One only needs to go to a race track, set in the first row, and watch the cars speed by to prove this. If you move your eyes towards the car they are a blur. If you fix your eyes on the car you see very well for a very short period of time. If you move your eyes in the direction the car is moving you can see it very well for a longer period of time. In a way, your eyes are making the car slow down! A person can do the same thing standing by the side of a highway or standing in the batters box just watching the ball. Oddly enough it’s called TRACKING.

I understand most of the technical aspects that are brought up here and I do think this stuff is vitally important. There are a few real serious hitting people who post here.

However, I think the visual and mental aspects of hitting are at least equally important. The first thing we used to do when a hitter was struggling is put him in the bullpen and have him track pitches, without swinging of course. In many cases this helped a lot. Most slumps are not caused from mechanical breakdowns. The swing doesn’t always change during the slump. Almost always it’s a vision or mental problem. To understand this, you need experience! That’s why I speak so highly about the importance of experience. Also agree that many with tons of experience, don’t understand what they did and certainly can’t teach it. It’s those who have both the experience and ability to learn and teach that have the biggest advantage.
S sonisclass0810+ posts
PG - Very interesting thoughts. This may be old hat for many of of you, but while I was reading your last post, a light bulb went off.

You said that when you had a hitter who was struggling you put him in the bullpen and have him track pitches. You go on to indicate the importance of experience.

So there would be benefit for hitters (including those not slumping) to spend some time in the bullpen tracking pitches. This would be in addition to normal BP and hitting drills. Could be beneficial in cold weather areas where there is some pitching indoors, but can't hit due to lack of space.

Never thought of that before. I think I'm going to float this by son's fall coaches to bring to H.S. coaching staff. Currently, team is in cages two days a week, with third day for pitchers.
T tom.guerry100+ posts
Hitting up the middle can be used to teach good coil/uncoil or load/unload sequencing that is the equivalent of learning to load and unload well in golf by hitting from inside/out to cure slice,slice usually being caused by club being swung "over the top" or outside-in ("hitting around ball") which is associated with "rushing" or interruption of coil/uncoil of trunk.

be careful in going to the wide stance that you don't end up suppressing the "positive move".

beware what bb calls the "dead hands no stride" where you stamp out the positive move and the upper body load.

evidence from golf suggests to me that the quick hitting swing requires arms loading in a different plane from the shoulders (Lau knob pull,Epstein work elbow up a little during drop and tilt).
in golf,there are 2 distinct succesful patterns, one where the arms load in a plane higher than the shoulders (2 plane load) and one where the arms load in the same plane as shoulders (1 plane load). The latter swing is fine for golf,but lacks quickness and does not fit with the adjustment mechanisms (up/down/in/out) necessary in hitting.1 plane golf is like dead hands/no-stride hitting.

also in golf,even though the VAST majority of players are N0-stride,there still needs to be a weight shift/carry/positive move, but less so in the one plane load pattern. Same applies to hitting - this is the same idea as the advice I mentioned from Lau which is that the weight must go forward right(carry/shift/hip cok)/enough to enable pulling the knob, both of which he considers absolutes to avoid the poisons of "back foot" and "2 piece" hitting.
C Coachric1,000+ posts
None of us coaching or teaching should minimize vision practice. PG made great points about tracking. On our high school teams, all bp includes track-4, tracking 4 pitches which coincides with bunting-4 and situational hitting in groups of 4. When a hitter is standing around waiting his turn in the cage, and pitchers are doing pen work, we have the hitter stand and in and track. They can all use more of this and it helps them relax in the box and really works with zone hitting.

Coachric
L Linear500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by hsballcoach:
Linear you will probably know this one the best. In an effort to learn a little more about *****'s ideas, can you tell me some of the major league players that he has taught or continues to work with. I would like to watch some of his work in action to see how it plays out. THanks.


Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, Manny Ramirez. Smile
Last edited by Linear
H hsballcoach100+ posts
Just to throw another log on the fire. Apparently those players thought so much, that none of them offered a testamonial? Bonds=cheater, Pujols, and Ramirez were studs since high school. Not saying I disagree with all of the teachings, just that I would like to see a little more evidence. I think it is one thing to observe and state what good hitters do. It is another to help each player reach their potential using an individualized aproach. I think that one of the most important points that has been brought up is that many of the things that are being stated are things that have been around for many many years with a few refinements. I do not believe in buzz-words but rather what the words are saying. Sometimes they can offer new ideas that refine older ones other times they take credit for reinventing the wheel. The key is to learn something from everything you come across but never fall so in love with something that you can't see other methods.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by hsballcoach:
I think that one of the most important points that has been brought up is that many of the things that are being stated are things that have been around for many many years with a few refinements. I do not believe in buzz-words but rather what the words are saying. Sometimes they can offer new ideas that refine older ones other times they take credit for reinventing the wheel.


Refreshing (and somewhat of a relief) to see that someone agrees with me - despite my lack of "pedigree". LOL

Wink
Last edited by itsinthegame
T tom.guerry100+ posts
xfactor exists in my opinion as much as THT (active as well as inertial/passive).

xfactor is perhaps easier to measure as with skilltechnologies skillcheck motionanalysis for example.

it is also important to distinguish between xfactor (presence/degree of separation which everyone knows occurs) vs "xfactor stretch" which denotes a dynamic additional stretch before reversal which among other things harnesses elastic tissue properties,etc for efficient reversal/quick unloading. The "N" word might be "cusp".

here is an old thread addressed to teacherman and "N" ("O'really")that gives examples of the measurements:

http://www.batspeed.com/messageboard/10685.html

and a definition of xfactor stretch which can be measured in hitting as well as golf:

http://www.advancedmotionmeasurement.com/XFactorStretch1.htm
Last edited by tom.guerry
L Linear500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by hsballcoach:
Just to throw another log on the fire. Apparently those players thought so much, that none of them offered a testamonial? Bonds=cheater, Pujols, and Ramirez were studs since high school. Not saying I disagree with all of the teachings, just that I would like to see a little more evidence. I think it is one thing to observe and state what good hitters do. It is another to help each player reach their potential using an individualized aproach. I think that one of the most important points that has been brought up is that many of the things that are being stated are things that have been around for many many years with a few refinements. I do not believe in buzz-words but rather what the words are saying. Sometimes they can offer new ideas that refine older ones other times they take credit for reinventing the wheel. The key is to learn something from everything you come across but never fall so in love with something that you can't see other methods.


Don't forget the religion factor.
Last edited by Linear
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
The guy who had the least movement...up,down, backward or forward was Bonds. His head never left the grid and had "almost no movement".

His head may be free to move, but it moves less than any of the other top hitters.



Bbscout, almost no movement????????.......You mean like a little bit pregnant?......

The head moves, plain and simple......Head movement is a good thing...... Wink
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
Bluedog,

Please tell us how you would teach a young hitter to utilize vision for the best results. Or do you believe vision is not that important?



PGStaff, vision is important.......But, greatly misunderstood by most Coaches.......

Focal vision, looking directly at the ball, is not what should be taught......However, most Coaches do teach this......I say, what a mistake..... noidea
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