quote:Originally posted by RJM:
People should not be fired until they are found guilty...
JoePa was not fired for a legal matter. His immoral decision(s) did not meet the standards of the University. There is a likelihood that JoePa will never be found "guilty" but I think we can all agree that his inactions were severely lacking in morality.
Additionally, once you consider JoePa's preaching of "honor" and "doing it the right way", you can see how his presence adds gasoline to this inferno. He had to go.
Watching these kids being interviewed on ESPN that support JoePa make me hope and wish I wasn't that naieve when I was their age. Hopefully they will calm down in the morning and put some thought into what has happened and realize it was the right thing to do.
By definition of the law JoePa is innocent because he complied with the letter of the law by notifying his superiors. All states have a law similar to this law. But the morality of the situation demands that he should have went further or picked it back up after a period of time when he saw nothing happening. If someone defends JoePa just ask them if they would want ANYONE to do more if it was their kid being abused by a predator like Sandusky.
By definition of the law JoePa is innocent because he complied with the letter of the law by notifying his superiors. All states have a law similar to this law. But the morality of the situation demands that he should have went further or picked it back up after a period of time when he saw nothing happening. If someone defends JoePa just ask them if they would want ANYONE to do more if it was their kid being abused by a predator like Sandusky.
Having worked ***-abuse cases, being a father, being a college football fan...
I feel so much sadness, on so many levels.
I would love to comment on various points here, but in the big picture, it does not matter.
I feel so much sadness, on so many levels.
I would love to comment on various points here, but in the big picture, it does not matter.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
Watching these kids being interviewed on ESPN that support JoePa make me hope and wish I wasn't that naieve when I was their age. Hopefully they will calm down in the morning and put some thought into what has happened and realize it was the right thing to do...
If you support JoePa in this, you fall into 1 of 2 categories:
1) You haven't read the report
or
2) You don't have children.
He has to be held to a higher standard. Even though we can argue if he should be or not all day long. IMO he has to be. He put his head in the sand. He ignored it and allowed Sandusky to hang around. To continue to do what he was doing by not acting in a manner that would for sure cause an investigation. Once he took it up the chain and he still saw this guy hanging around and running this foundation what did he think? Why didn't he himself do the right thing? You know do the right thing and protect those kids and any other kid that might fall victim. By doing nothing he did something. He allowed this animal to continue to do what he was doing.
If it was his son that was in the shower with Sandusky would he have acted the same way? Would he have just taken up the chain and left it in their hands? NO. No way. Then what does that say? He should have been fired. And everyone that had any knowledge and did not act should be fired. I wonder if these students will riot if Sandusky is given a light sentence or somehow beats this rap? The outrage should be that because they put their head in the sand and tried to cover this up someone's child was abused. These students are pathetic imo. PSU is not coming out of this anytime soon. This is going to haunt the Univ and football program for a long time.
And to be honest I am not worried about the football game Saturday. The football players were not sexually abused and it was not a family member of theirs. They will be fine. And after all that is just a game. There are other things more important. At least to me.
If it was his son that was in the shower with Sandusky would he have acted the same way? Would he have just taken up the chain and left it in their hands? NO. No way. Then what does that say? He should have been fired. And everyone that had any knowledge and did not act should be fired. I wonder if these students will riot if Sandusky is given a light sentence or somehow beats this rap? The outrage should be that because they put their head in the sand and tried to cover this up someone's child was abused. These students are pathetic imo. PSU is not coming out of this anytime soon. This is going to haunt the Univ and football program for a long time.
And to be honest I am not worried about the football game Saturday. The football players were not sexually abused and it was not a family member of theirs. They will be fine. And after all that is just a game. There are other things more important. At least to me.
I can't imagine Penn State playing football on Saturday.
Edmund Burke:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Great quote hokieone!
The bottom line is that all involved and knew did not report the incident beyond university authorities, that makes them all guilty in a cover up of what happened, and morally responsible.
They gave him the opportunity to step down, instead he defied them and announced he would retire after the season. And he's sorry that he wished he had done more to help the victims.
How sad is that statement.
The bottom line is that all involved and knew did not report the incident beyond university authorities, that makes them all guilty in a cover up of what happened, and morally responsible.
They gave him the opportunity to step down, instead he defied them and announced he would retire after the season. And he's sorry that he wished he had done more to help the victims.
How sad is that statement.
In Texas, failure to report this offense to LEO is a CRIMINAL offense. The simple fact they went thru the University's system speaks volumes....quote:The bottom line is that all involved and knew did not report the incident beyond university authorities, that makes them all guilty in a cover up of what happened, and morally responsible.
GED10DaD
While we all would like to believe we would have taken the proper steps... put yourself in JoePa's position. His 30 plus year friend & fellow coaching legend did things that are simply beyond belief. Sandusky is the worst kind of monster. Bright, articulate, seemingly a stand up guy. Not excusing anyone in this shameful mess, just the worst way to end what otherwise would have been a career anyone would envy. I'm sad for Penn State and sure wish Paterno had handled things differently. History will not be kind to him, nor should it be. He will be remembered as the face of this scandal, not the perp.
quote:Edmund Burke:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
wiser words may never have been spoken! It takes great courage to admirably lead men..
Sickening in so many ways.
My heart aches for these children who were raped by someone they trusted.
I am saddened by the belief that the story will get worse as more men step forward to tell of their experiences.
How can anyone who had any inkling of what was going on and didn't do what they could to stop it sleep at night?
My heart aches for these children who were raped by someone they trusted.
I am saddened by the belief that the story will get worse as more men step forward to tell of their experiences.
How can anyone who had any inkling of what was going on and didn't do what they could to stop it sleep at night?
quote:Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
While we all would like to believe we would have taken the proper steps... put yourself in JoePa's position. His 30 plus year friend & fellow coaching legend did things that are simply beyond belief. Sandusky is the worst kind of monster. Bright, articulate, seemingly a stand up guy. Not excusing anyone in this shameful mess, just the worst way to end what otherwise would have been a career anyone would envy. I'm sad for Penn State and sure wish Paterno had handled things differently. History will not be kind to him, nor should it be. He will be remembered as the face of this scandal, not the perp.
Yankee what do you think he would have done if it was his grandchild?
Summary in LA Times this morning.
"Even at the end, Paterno didn't understand, as evidenced by his final pathetic call as a head coach. Early Wednesday, he announced he was retiring at the end of the season, noting in his statement that he didn't want the school's board of trustees to worry further about him.
Yeah, right. He was just trying to squeeze two or three more moments of glory as his castle was collapsing around him.
And of course he thought it would work. This is the same Paterno who basically threw university president Graham Spanier and athletic director Tim Curley out of his home several years ago when they tepidly approached him with the idea of resigning.
But this time, finally, thankfully, the power sweep didn't work. The trustees didn't fall for it. On Wednesday evening Paterno was gone, and how fitting that both Spanier and Curley have also been kicked to the curb.
In a final show of misguided loyalty Wednesday night, some Penn State students surrounded Paterno's home and cried for him.
Save your tears for the victims while working up a cheer for the fall of one of the most oppressive college sports dictatorships in America.
Paterno State University is gone. May it rest in pieces."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/...umn?page=2&track=rss
"Even at the end, Paterno didn't understand, as evidenced by his final pathetic call as a head coach. Early Wednesday, he announced he was retiring at the end of the season, noting in his statement that he didn't want the school's board of trustees to worry further about him.
Yeah, right. He was just trying to squeeze two or three more moments of glory as his castle was collapsing around him.
And of course he thought it would work. This is the same Paterno who basically threw university president Graham Spanier and athletic director Tim Curley out of his home several years ago when they tepidly approached him with the idea of resigning.
But this time, finally, thankfully, the power sweep didn't work. The trustees didn't fall for it. On Wednesday evening Paterno was gone, and how fitting that both Spanier and Curley have also been kicked to the curb.
In a final show of misguided loyalty Wednesday night, some Penn State students surrounded Paterno's home and cried for him.
Save your tears for the victims while working up a cheer for the fall of one of the most oppressive college sports dictatorships in America.
Paterno State University is gone. May it rest in pieces."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/...umn?page=2&track=rss
quote:While we all would like to believe we would have taken the proper steps... put yourself in JoePa's position. His 30 plus year friend & fellow coaching legend did things that are simply beyond belief. Sandusky is the worst kind of monster. Bright, articulate, seemingly a stand up guy. Not excusing anyone in this shameful mess, just the worst way to end what otherwise would have been a career anyone would envy. I'm sad for Penn State and sure wish Paterno had handled things differently. History will not be kind to him, nor should it be. He will be remembered as the face of this scandal, not the perp.
There is no way to positively spin a serial pedophile's cover-up. I don't understand why otherwise seemingly bright folks even try. There is quite obviously zero sympathy for Sandusky's enablers, some of which are going to jail. Hopefully, this ends the era of elderly football coaches. Penn State will be in court for years paying claims from victims.
They will be lucky to get a football game with Slippery Rock because when team's fans see them on their schedule they will universally react with a loud "EEWWWW!!!" Recruiting has probably already dried up. They are done. Stick a fork.
I am inclined to lean towards Sulatan's suggestion of the Death Penalty. RJM disagrees and states this has nothing to do with football. I disagree. With these guys it is all about football and nothing else. Why would the President, AD, Univ Police and Paterno cover it up. It would hurt the school, hurt recruiting and produce less competitive teams bringing less money. IMO it is naive that this has nothing to do with football.
I personally would be fine with the death penalty, but at a minimum there should definitely be some NCAA sanctions coming down the road.
McQueary should be fired immediately.
I personally would be fine with the death penalty, but at a minimum there should definitely be some NCAA sanctions coming down the road.
McQueary should be fired immediately.
I don't know about all of you, but I read the Grand Jury report. I'm still waiting to hear EXACTLY how much McQueary told Joe. Seems like he has been awfully quiet and missing during all of this.
Plus, wasn't Schulz head of the University Police at the time? At Penn State, this would be a police force that carries guns, not your "campus security" like other schools.
I still want the facts, not what the conjecture of the media. I'll be interested in what comes out over the next few days, weeks, and months. But I'm not ready to pass judgement based on hearsay and 20-20 hindsight.
My heart and prayers go out to the young victims of Sandusky's heinous crime.
Plus, wasn't Schulz head of the University Police at the time? At Penn State, this would be a police force that carries guns, not your "campus security" like other schools.
I still want the facts, not what the conjecture of the media. I'll be interested in what comes out over the next few days, weeks, and months. But I'm not ready to pass judgement based on hearsay and 20-20 hindsight.
My heart and prayers go out to the young victims of Sandusky's heinous crime.
How about the riots? Joe could have prevented this stuff. He could have stepped down. He could have stepped up and done the right thing this time. He simply could have said "In light of the situation we are dealing with at Penn State I believe its in the best interest of the Univ that I step down today. I will have no other comments at this time." Instead he forced them to fire him and caused this outburst of violence and riots. Enough of this guy. I dont think he has a clue.
Iam with you mom---there is still more to come on this matter
ihe ncaa has no jurisdiction here in thus matter
I don't think this will hurt PSU football all that much overall. They are going to open up the pocketbooks and hire a big name to replace JoePa. I can see them luring a guy like Urban Meyer out of the TV booth for a lot of money. A guy like this brings instant credibility and will ensure that recruiting won't be hurt.
If they go for a no name or someone who is up and coming but doesn't pan out then this could really destroy PSU football. I'm willing to bet that they open the pocketbook.
I agree with RJM that this doesn't merit the NCAA "death penalty". First after seeing how bad it really hurt SMU I doubt they will ever use it again. As bad as the NCAA is now the SMU situation has caused them to step up their investigation and enforcement. They will never allow another SMU to be created. Second this has nothing to do with NCAA rules or bylaws and it has everything to do with societal laws and morals. You really don't want the NCAA to start getting into the legal issues of schools / universities.
The legal system is slow but that's a good thing because you want the whole story to come out. I'm the first one to say let the facts come out before passing judgment because I hate it when people get vilified in the public only to find out it wasn't true. In this case that's how I started out but after reading the grand jury indictment I feel confident enough that the right things are taking place.
If they go for a no name or someone who is up and coming but doesn't pan out then this could really destroy PSU football. I'm willing to bet that they open the pocketbook.
I agree with RJM that this doesn't merit the NCAA "death penalty". First after seeing how bad it really hurt SMU I doubt they will ever use it again. As bad as the NCAA is now the SMU situation has caused them to step up their investigation and enforcement. They will never allow another SMU to be created. Second this has nothing to do with NCAA rules or bylaws and it has everything to do with societal laws and morals. You really don't want the NCAA to start getting into the legal issues of schools / universities.
The legal system is slow but that's a good thing because you want the whole story to come out. I'm the first one to say let the facts come out before passing judgment because I hate it when people get vilified in the public only to find out it wasn't true. In this case that's how I started out but after reading the grand jury indictment I feel confident enough that the right things are taking place.
I agree with Coach May wholeheartedly. He could have made a statement after being fired that would have calmed the hot heads and allowed for some dignity and greater understanding about the situation. Instead he said something like, "right now I'm not the coach and I have to deal with that." What is that?
The whole side story about the disapperance of the local DA years ago is just incredible too.
Problems with big time athletics at the collegiate level inevitably come down to the President not having control over his school. Bob Dylan once wrote that "you have to serve somebody" and when university Presidents choose to serve big dollars over values and proper monitoring and controls, this tragedy is one example of what can go wrong.
The whole side story about the disapperance of the local DA years ago is just incredible too.
Problems with big time athletics at the collegiate level inevitably come down to the President not having control over his school. Bob Dylan once wrote that "you have to serve somebody" and when university Presidents choose to serve big dollars over values and proper monitoring and controls, this tragedy is one example of what can go wrong.
quote:Originally posted by VaRHPmom:
I still want the facts, not what the conjecture of the media. I'll be interested in what comes out over the next few days, weeks, and months. But I'm not ready to pass judgement based on hearsay and 20-20 hindsight.
My heart and prayers go out to the young victims of Sandusky's heinous crime.
I totally understand what you are trying to say here, but do you see any contradiction in paragraphs one and two? I am of the opinion, if you believe two (before trial), then casting that net is not a stretch.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
ihe ncaa has no jurisdiction here in thus matter
understanding that ncaa involvement is distantly secondary, "knowingly allowing the use of institution facilities for a pattern of illegal activities" wouldn't merit consideration for action?
quote:Originally posted by BOF:quote:Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
While we all would like to believe we would have taken the proper steps... put yourself in JoePa's position. His 30 plus year friend & fellow coaching legend did things that are simply beyond belief. Sandusky is the worst kind of monster. Bright, articulate, seemingly a stand up guy. Not excusing anyone in this shameful mess, just the worst way to end what otherwise would have been a career anyone would envy. I'm sad for Penn State and sure wish Paterno had handled things differently. History will not be kind to him, nor should it be. He will be remembered as the face of this scandal, not the perp.
Yankee what do you think he would have done if it was his grandchild?
Just read the 23 page indictment...hope everyone with knowledge that didn't act all burn in Hell !
http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
I don't think this will hurt PSU football all that much overall. They are going to open up the pocketbooks and hire a big name to replace JoePa. I can see them luring a guy like Urban Meyer out of the TV booth for a lot of money. A guy like this brings instant credibility and will ensure that recruiting won't be hurt.
Ok, I'm laughing. Penn State is radioactive. We'll agree to disagree. I don't think PSU will recover for a generation. I don't think anyone decent or notable will coach Penn State until all the dust has settled, years from now.
Do you honestly think Urban Meyer would actually return phone calls from Penn State? he has more money than his grand children can spend. He got a $1 million bonus AFTER he resigned the Gators. Recruiting will dry up almost immediately, if not already. There will be mass class of 2012 de-committs in the days and weeks to come. The NCAA will probably allow players to transfer without sitting out a year.
Penn State is headed for football Siberia. I'm laughing some more.
I didn't say it had nothing to do with football. I said in relation to the death penalty it had nothing to do with football. There is nothing about cheating for a competitive edge. SMU received the death penalty for cheating. If USC didn't get the death penalty for the Carrol era no program will ever again get the death penalty.quote:Originally posted by 2013 Dad:
I am inclined to lean towards Sulatan's suggestion of the Death Penalty. RJM disagrees and states this has nothing to do with football. I disagree. With these guys it is all about football and nothing else. Why would the President, AD, Univ Police and Paterno cover it up. It would hurt the school, hurt recruiting and produce less competitive teams bringing less money. IMO it is naive that this has nothing to do with football.
I personally would be fine with the death penalty, but at a minimum there should definitely be some NCAA sanctions coming down the road.
McQueary should be fired immediately.
Like VaRhpMom I prefer to see what happens in the courtroom rather than trial by media given 1) most writers can't construct a paragraph that would pass a 4th grade English class and 2) for the most part sportswriters are not the brightest bulbs in the room.
Dad04 I agree. Its over for PSU football. There is no way anyone is going there to play football. The players they will be getting will be the ones no one else is recruiting. Because if a quality program is recruiting them they will choose that program over PSU for obvious reasons. No one is going to want to be associated with PSU if they dont have to be.
They might not get the Death Penalty from the NCAA. But they gave the Death Penalty to themselves with this fiasco. They are done. The best team they will field in the next 30 years is there now. Its going to get real bad for a long time before it ever gets better. The first thought any player any parent is going to have when PSU is mentioned is "Child abuse." They will run like a rabbit with his tail on fire.
They might not get the Death Penalty from the NCAA. But they gave the Death Penalty to themselves with this fiasco. They are done. The best team they will field in the next 30 years is there now. Its going to get real bad for a long time before it ever gets better. The first thought any player any parent is going to have when PSU is mentioned is "Child abuse." They will run like a rabbit with his tail on fire.
There's been some question of Paterno's mental capacity for the past ten years. During this time there has been a Joe Must Go campaign. Obviously it relates to football and recruiting. It's quieted a bit with recent success of the team. But given his age and the questions I wonder how much control he's had over the program the past ten years outside of X's and O's. In the past ten years there have been several off the field incidents. This stuff never used to happen at Penn State. I'm not giving Paterno a pass. I'm questioning the handling of the overall program from the president on down over the past ten years.quote:I agree with Coach May wholeheartedly. He could have made a statement after being fired that would have calmed the hot heads and allowed for some dignity and greater understanding about the situation. Instead he said something like, "right now I'm not the coach and I have to deal with that." What is that?
Football coaches at this level can be very removed from real life. I remember Joe Gibbs not knowing who was running for president while coaching in Washington. As for Paterno not asking for calm on campus either he wanted to go out a martyr or he just doesn't get it due to his age and being so locked into his little football. You have to understand this guy has been told repeatedly he's God.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
Dad04 I agree. Its over for PSU football. There is no way anyone is going there to play football. The players they will be getting will be the ones no one else is recruiting. Because if a quality program is recruiting them they will choose that program over PSU for obvious reasons. No one is going to want to be associated with PSU if they dont have to be.
They might not get the Death Penalty from the NCAA. But they gave the Death Penalty to themselves with this fiasco. They are done. The best team they will field in the next 30 years is there now. Its going to get real bad for a long time before it ever gets better. The first thought any player any parent is going to have when PSU is mentioned is "Child abuse." They will run like a rabbit with his tail on fire.
quote:Call this insanity because that's what it is. But don't think Penn State football is going to skate because the NCAA has no rule that covers harboring alleged child molesters.
This case has already started taking care of itself.
"The NCAA is not going to have to do anything," said a BCS official speaking anonymously because of the sensitive nature of the situation. "They can sit back and watch the house burn down."
Penn State's Board of Trustees tossed the first match Wednesday night, firing its iconic head coach along with the university's president.
Penn State football as we know it is officially over.
It might survive as primordial ooze. The program is more toxic than radiation and its troubles will have nothing to do with losing 30 scholarships over the next three years.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/...0-8,0,2314350.column
One of their top recruits tweeted, "Ewww I'm not going there." The recruit to watch would be Skyler Mornhinweg. You would have to think his dad as an NFL assistant coach would be able to get the inside picture as to how desparate the future looks. I see the only prevention of a 3-5 year competitive drought is to hire someone like Urban Meyer within a week. It's panic mode. It would be expensive. There's also the possibility the Board of Trustees sees football taking a back seat for a few years as a positive.quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
Dad04 I agree. Its over for PSU football. There is no way anyone is going there to play football. The players they will be getting will be the ones no one else is recruiting. Because if a quality program is recruiting them they will choose that program over PSU for obvious reasons. No one is going to want to be associated with PSU if they dont have to be.
They might not get the Death Penalty from the NCAA. But they gave the Death Penalty to themselves with this fiasco. They are done. The best team they will field in the next 30 years is there now. Its going to get real bad for a long time before it ever gets better. The first thought any player any parent is going to have when PSU is mentioned is "Child abuse." They will run like a rabbit with his tail on fire.
NCAA jurisdiction is a moot point. PSU shot themselves in the head. It is so over. You couldn't pay me to shower in that locker room. It's just a little bit creepy.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
I don't think this will hurt PSU football all that much overall. They are going to open up the pocketbooks and hire a big name to replace JoePa. I can see them luring a guy like Urban Meyer out of the TV booth for a lot of money. A guy like this brings instant credibility and will ensure that recruiting won't be hurt.
Ok, I'm laughing. Penn State is radioactive. We'll agree to disagree. I don't think PSU will recover for a generation. I don't think anyone decent or notable will coach Penn State until all the dust has settled, years from now.
Do you honestly think Urban Meyer would actually return phone calls from Penn State? he has more money than his grand children can spend. He got a $1 million bonus AFTER he resigned the Gators. Recruiting will dry up almost immediately, if not already. There will be mass class of 2012 de-committs in the days and weeks to come. The NCAA will probably allow players to transfer without sitting out a year.
Penn State is headed for football Siberia. I'm laughing some more.
Laugh all you want to because you may be right. I didn't say it was going to happen. I said this would be the only way to keep this from destroying the school. If they open their wallet and hire a guy like Urban Meyer (key word is like - I didn't say will) they will not suffer that much.
You think he has enough money that's fine but if he has a chance to be the highest paid coach in the NCAA do you really think he won't take it? He and others like him would gobble it up in a heartbeat. Maybe it's not Urban Meyer but there are other coaches out there with names just as big as him. I can see them dropping the school they're at to take a Penn State job. Only place you have to go is up.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
I don't think this will hurt PSU football all that much overall. They are going to open up the pocketbooks and hire a big name to replace JoePa. I can see them luring a guy like Urban Meyer out of the TV booth for a lot of money. A guy like this brings instant credibility and will ensure that recruiting won't be hurt.
Ok, I'm laughing. Penn State is radioactive. We'll agree to disagree. I don't think PSU will recover for a generation. I don't think anyone decent or notable will coach Penn State until all the dust has settled, years from now.
Do you honestly think Urban Meyer would actually return phone calls from Penn State? he has more money than his grand children can spend. He got a $1 million bonus AFTER he resigned the Gators. Recruiting will dry up almost immediately, if not already. There will be mass class of 2012 de-committs in the days and weeks to come. The NCAA will probably allow players to transfer without sitting out a year.
Penn State is headed for football Siberia. I'm laughing some more.
Laugh all you want to because you may be right. I didn't say it was going to happen. I said this would be the only way to keep this from destroying the school. If they open their wallet and hire a guy like Urban Meyer (key word is like - I didn't say will) they will not suffer that much.
You think he has enough money that's fine but if he has a chance to be the highest paid coach in the NCAA do you really think he won't take it? He and others like him would gobble it up in a heartbeat. Maybe it's not Urban Meyer but there are other coaches out there with names just as big as him. I can see them dropping the school they're at to take a Penn State job. Only place you have to go is up.
Ummm...you said "I don't think this will hurt PSU football all that much overall. They are going to open up the pocketbooks and hire a big name to replace JoePa."
Perhaps you meant to say "This might not hurt PSU, if they get Urban Meyer." I said we'll agree to disagree.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
The recruit to watch would be Slyler Mornhinweg.
I thought he verbaled to Stanford two years ago.
Yes, it was rumored that Urban Meyer was real estate shopping in Happy Valley. Was it really him, or someone that looked like him? Who knows?
Right, or wrong, it's alumni dollars that drive Penn State. There is no way the alumni were going to stand for anything less than immediate action, as their beloved school was trampled under foot by the national media. Heads have rolled and more will follow. I expect the entire football staff to go, along with several trustees.
It was a majority of trustees, the ones "out of the loop"- the ones that felt lied to, deceived and kept in the dark- that forced the university's hand, yesterday. So, I feel that there are still many good people, in high positions, left at Penn State. PSU will weather the storm. It won't be pretty. It won't be easy. It won't be over, any time soon, but Penn State will be back.
They will take a hit, no doubt, but I don't think it will be as bad as you think. Frankly, I think you're giving football players and parents too much credit. I don't they'll be nearly as concerned about the morality as you think. Nor will they carry the memories as long as you think.
Dreams of the NFL trump all that. If they can hire an Urban Myer type, sign a fat Nike/UA contract, update the uniforms and turn it into an SEC type Thug U they'll be back on track pretty quick.
They've certainly got the money to do it. There are big name, ego-driven coaches out there who would love to be The GUy Who Saved Penn State Football. The only question is whether the board is more concerned about rebuilding the football program or the school.
Dreams of the NFL trump all that. If they can hire an Urban Myer type, sign a fat Nike/UA contract, update the uniforms and turn it into an SEC type Thug U they'll be back on track pretty quick.
They've certainly got the money to do it. There are big name, ego-driven coaches out there who would love to be The GUy Who Saved Penn State Football. The only question is whether the board is more concerned about rebuilding the football program or the school.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
Dad04 I agree. Its over for PSU football. There is no way anyone is going there to play football. The players they will be getting will be the ones no one else is recruiting. Because if a quality program is recruiting them they will choose that program over PSU for obvious reasons. No one is going to want to be associated with PSU if they dont have to be.
They might not get the Death Penalty from the NCAA. But they gave the Death Penalty to themselves with this fiasco. They are done. The best team they will field in the next 30 years is there now. Its going to get real bad for a long time before it ever gets better. The first thought any player any parent is going to have when PSU is mentioned is "Child abuse." They will run like a rabbit with his tail on fire.
MTH, you don't give players and parents enough credit, imo. True, there may be some who couldn't care less, but good football teams are made up of mostly ordinary players from ordinary families, bound together to do exceptional things for exceptional coaches. You can't just dial that up, at will. It isn't as easy as Les Miles or Saban make it look.
The whole house will be cleaned. It's a rebuilding situation that will take years and years. They won't get a decent player forever. I think the PSU Board is a lot less concerned with football than other things. The house has just burned down. They are just starting to sift the ashes.
It must be difficult for some to assess, since it is so recent, but this is an epic, all-time institutional fail. It is uncharted scandelous territory. It is not something recoverable with a shiny new coach, imo. When did the Catholic Church recover? Has it recovered?
BCS football is as competitive as it ever gets. By definition, college football gets no more competitive. You get a leak in a tire and you fall behind, way behind. PSU's car just blew up and disintergrated.
They won't see the top 25 for a decade or more. Part of me wants that to be true, because they deserve it. The rest of me understands the "ewww" factor as a parent. I've made my point.
The whole house will be cleaned. It's a rebuilding situation that will take years and years. They won't get a decent player forever. I think the PSU Board is a lot less concerned with football than other things. The house has just burned down. They are just starting to sift the ashes.
It must be difficult for some to assess, since it is so recent, but this is an epic, all-time institutional fail. It is uncharted scandelous territory. It is not something recoverable with a shiny new coach, imo. When did the Catholic Church recover? Has it recovered?
BCS football is as competitive as it ever gets. By definition, college football gets no more competitive. You get a leak in a tire and you fall behind, way behind. PSU's car just blew up and disintergrated.
They won't see the top 25 for a decade or more. Part of me wants that to be true, because they deserve it. The rest of me understands the "ewww" factor as a parent. I've made my point.
Dad04,
Clearly, I'm more cynical about human nature than you are, especially when it comes to college football. And I'd really like to believe that kids and parents will shy away from the place. I just don't think that will be the case for more than a year or two. But, you and CoachMay may be right. The problem is we have no real frame of reference in sports for anything like this. The Catholic church analogy is fine for comparing the cover ups, but I don't think it is appropriate for comparing recovery. These days, it's easier to sell football than religion. There goes that cynicism again.
In my mind the key is going to be "What is Penn State without football?" Is it a serious academic institution that can survive on its own merits? Or is it nothing more than a football school. I am curious to see how the Board of Trustees, by their actions, will try to answer this question. I suspect they're wondering about this themselves.
Clearly, I'm more cynical about human nature than you are, especially when it comes to college football. And I'd really like to believe that kids and parents will shy away from the place. I just don't think that will be the case for more than a year or two. But, you and CoachMay may be right. The problem is we have no real frame of reference in sports for anything like this. The Catholic church analogy is fine for comparing the cover ups, but I don't think it is appropriate for comparing recovery. These days, it's easier to sell football than religion. There goes that cynicism again.
In my mind the key is going to be "What is Penn State without football?" Is it a serious academic institution that can survive on its own merits? Or is it nothing more than a football school. I am curious to see how the Board of Trustees, by their actions, will try to answer this question. I suspect they're wondering about this themselves.
No doubt, football will suffer, immensely. How will Penn State be received at The Horseshoe next week? Remember, OSU is on probation for tattoos and jerseys. I don't think Buckeye fans will be very sympathetic to the Lions. It will be nasty.