The importance of grades in high school.

FSU is always a possibility

There are several kids from our area that could be playing D1 but their gpa and/or ACT score was low. For D3 schools, it is especially important to have a good gpa as they cannot give out athletic scholarships and many of them are quite expensive so they try to give the player academic money to entice them if their grades allow.

In most cases, talent gets you noticed, GPA is just another part of the equation.
That 17 year old may have a pretty good arm, but not good enough to overlook his GPA (if that is the case).
JMO

Not making the grade in HS will catch up one way or another to a potential athlete. It's usually one of the first hard lessons they learn as a young adult.

rain delay, the stories are true. Here is my son's story that I'm not proud of telling but gives a first hand account of the importance of grades. His GPA is 2.2 and SAT of 960. Don't tell him I told this story.

My son did all the things you read about on this site regarding exposure. Good travel program, WWBA tournaments in Marietta, Fort Myers and Jupiter. A couple of showcases and camps. Usually did well and people noticed. During his junior year he received many letters and emails and we made one visit to a college. On July 1 after junior year he received 9 phone calls from D1 schools he would have loved to play for. He is not a PG top 100 player but he has a tool coaches like.

During this past summer player after player on his team received offers and verballed to colleges. In November they proudly signed their NLI while my son had nothing. What we heard from his coaches was that many school know of him and would like to have him but his GPA is too risky. Today we are looking to JUCOs and he will likely go that route. Not a bad thing at all, but not what we planned.

Yes exceptions are made, one of the signees on his team had worse SAT with similar grades but throws low 90's and got an offer. They still might for my knucklehead, I mean son, but things would have been a lot less frustrating for him and less stressful for us if he had just put a little more effort into school. It really isn't that hard to get B's in high school. It just takes a few hours per week of studying and caring.

SO YES HIGH SCHOOL GRADES DO MATTER!!!

The only good thing to come out of this experience is that since I painted this exact scenerio during his sophomore year I gained some credibilty with him and he kind of listens some of the things I tell him now.

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
The only good thing to come out of this experience is that since I painted this exact scenerio during his sophomore year I gained some credibilty with him and he kind of listens some of the things I tell him now.

I've found that to be temporary and elusive in my house.

Seriously fillsfan,
Thanks. That post is going to help a great many people as they come through this site looking for help.

In my house, my two boys are at opposite ends of the spectrum academically. Much of that has to do with natural ability, some of that with effort. The one lacking natural academics is more easily frustrated and that just compounds the issue. He would like to go to college ROTC, but as much as the Army needs officers, it's still a stretch. I'd prefer my boys to be officers, but he may have to chew dirt as an enlisted, just like his old man did.

As he gets older, he has more understanding that he needs to put his frustration aside and grind it out and get through, but as a Junior now, his die is greatly cast. My greatest fear as a parent in this situation is that he doesn't think Mom and I think any less of him because he's not as academically capable as his older brother. We are not shy about being proud (internally with our son) of our older sons achievements, but temper our enthusiasm some to maintain balance.

It's not always all about effort, but to varying degrees it is usually a component. And you are right, B's in HS, with the exception of a specific subject, are usually attainable for most...the climb may just be a bit steeper.

What Fillsfan said is ditto for Pop Up, as most of you know already. I tried to impress in son that good grades gives one options, without them you have very little to work with. According to son, after some initial learning the hard way, he is one of JC coach's top players, and is doing well in school. Other than pot smoking roommates, he is having a good time. JC is a bit easier on these kids, because they take fewer number of classes, may go to class one day at 10, may have off days too. It allows them more time to study, and the mandatory study hall helps.

I know of one local NW player who did not have good grades, but he was already on MLB watch list and went third round. A large NW college had him signed, but it was for show only, they knew he would never attend their school. If the MLB people like you enough the D1s will recruit you too. Trust me, if you are high on their list, you would know it by now.

As important as GPAs are to getting into college and reducing the amount of athletic money a coach has to use up, success in life is not always directly related to GPAs. There are lots of successful people who had low GPAs and dropped out of school. What the coaches want is to see marks that limit the risk of a player becoming ineligible.

Probably no flow to these thoughts, but here goes...

In this day and age, good options are paramount.
Good grades give you good options.

You be the coach...two players...all other things being very close to equal...you gonna' take the 2.6 guy or the 3.2 guy?

Looking around, I see a tough reality. Many kids realize that good grades give good options...here's the problem...the vast majority usually don't realize it at 15-16, it's at 19-20 when they've been overlooked, or they are tired of the jc route and decide pizza delivery will get 'em by until the "right thing comes along".

I was blessed...my kid realized the importance...had the discipline and focus in his mid-teens...listened to his coaches and parents...realized that good grades would probably get him further, especially him being a MIF of smaller stature.

His grades got him active help from the coaches with the academic departments, even at a nice SEC school he was being recruited by. I'm pretty sure his ultimate landing school would not have happened without good grades.

I am a firm believer that actively seeking good grades is important.

IMO having good grades just gives you many more options with many different schools. Poor grades limits the number of schools.

quote:

DaddyBo quote:
the vast majority usually don't realize it at 15-16, it's at 19-20 when they've been overlooked, or they are tired of the jc route and decide pizza delivery will get 'em by until the "right thing comes along".

Good point D-Bo

While I understand some kids don't have the "tools" to succeed at a high level in regard to HS acadeemics, some parents should pull out the full size mirror when HS grades become an issue. Parents with athletes will go out of their way to fork out money for camps, clinics, and private lessons, and also make sure Jr gets to practice, games, and workouts. In the end they look back and see that those efforts paid off as the kid is now a sought after player.

But....

Did they put the same effort maximizing, investing, and following up on the academic side of the HS career?

I plead guilty, as I probably put more effort into HS athletics than academics. I think I really lucked out as my kid's teammates and coaches set a high academic bar. In the end was it their resonsibility that he exceed the avarage student? NO, it's the parents responsibility to bring out the most in their kids athletically and academically.

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
JC is a bit easier on these kids, because they take fewer number of classes, may go to class one day at 10, may have off days too. It allows them more time to study, and the mandatory study hall helps.

Just be sure that the player accumulates 12 transferrable credit hours per term, and gets a 2.0.

It is possible to accomplish this by taking the minimum 12 hours per term, but that doesn't allow for any kind of problem. Players do end up being shut out of D1 schools because they had to drop a class, and then couldn't catch up the hours.

Note that a course like Baseball Studies 101 probably won't be transferrable. That could mean that a player has taken 12 hours (or more) per term, but still not meet the NCAA rule of 12 transferrable hours.

How do colleges look at GPA? What is Acceptable / Good / Great? 2.5 / 3.0 / 3.5?

check the websites of the schools you have interest in---they have the admission requirements on the sites--- the better the GPA the better you are with the baseball so they do not have worry about the player staying eligible

Sure GPA is important. And a high GPA will offset lower test scores. Many have gamed the system by taking a soft course load in HS only to become a "1 and done" statistic in college.

At almost every level in club baseball the kids are playing up, and taking their lumps. They also need to play up academically.

Be sure that athletic talent trumps GPAs. Guy with great talent and low GPA gets the nod over modest talent and high GPA. I have seen poor GPA guys sign with big time BB programs.

BHD

Think about the message you are sending!!!!!

I have and the message is that coaches value talent more than grades. I believe I said grades are very important but don't think that high grades will trump talent. You had better do both well.

Fillsfan said it best. What a wonderfully honest, real-life post. Grades do matter a lot. For my son, baseball money was hard to come by, but his GPA/SAT allowed him to pull down a nice piece of academic money.

I agree .Fillsfan has laid it out well.
The offers my son had the academic money was greater than the BB money. At least $3000 more and it was important. However I know several poor students who signed big D1 deals as he mentioned.

quote:

Did they put the same effort maximizing, investing, and following up on the academic side of the HS career?

Very good point. Our son told us young that he wanted to play college baseball.We sat him down before HS started and told him we would support this dream, on the condition that he had good grades.He is a smart kid, so we set the bar high at a 3.5.

Freshmen year and sophmore year he had mandatory study 2 hours a night Sunday through Thursday.Friday and Saturday were his, unless he had a huge project, and he knew what he had to do. Sunday after 5 pm Play station was off for the week, until Friday night.He balked at first, his friends didnt have these rules.

We did not budge, I am a big supporter of structured time.They need it.Why do you think college baseball teams have study hall? Structured time to study.

This worked well for us.Junior year son did not feel he need structured time, husband agreed with him.I did not but let him try to do it his own way. 3.8 freshmen and soph. year.It did drop, junior year.So when it came time to drive, I told him again 3.5 or no keys.He graduated with a 3.5 and good SAT scores.

Now my son has no learning difficulties, and he only took one AP class so a 3.5 was not that difficult, it just required time.

When he went to camps, he took his books.He studied in the car, in the hotel room etc.

Yes colleges make some exceptions, but you better be really good.My son went to a JC last year, 3.4 GPA. College that recruited him told him that when he looked at sons JC grades he noticed that he dropped during baseball season, and he almost didnt want to recruit him, but then he looked at his HS grades and saw that he was consistent in the classroom.They have a 35 man roster limit they cant have 10 guys barely hanging on.

If they cant maintain good grades in HS and learn study habits, it will be very difficult to maintain them at college with baseball.

Great post FOG.

IMO the one area that can be affected the most for post high school opportunity is academics. I know you have to have baseball talent and you have to put the time in practice to be sought after for a baseball scholarship. But no one can take away your grades and SAT's, regardless of athletics.

I tell kids that are freshmen in high school that the one single thing that they should put the most focus on is their academic efforts. FOG sat hers down prior to freshman year and made it a priority. That priority, if baseball did not work out, would still have tremendous value for his future.

Does it matter how hard you throw if you do not meet the NCAA Sliding Scale for DI? The minimum for DI is 2.0 in 16 Core Courses and SAT 0f 1010. As the GPA increased the SAT may decrease. My son makes it after the first qtr Senior year but is doing his best to challenge these minumums. DII becomes an option but so does Prep School.

To provide a perspective on how important grades are I took two dimensions, grades and baseball ability and that show how important grades are. If you assume the % of available schools are based primarily on an athletes ability and grades then a 10 in both categories would mean that 100% of the schools would be available to an athlete. I assume that there is a floor where no matter what your grades are you will not play and no matter how good an athlete are you will not play unless you make the minimum 2.0 which are arbitrarily assigned as a mid point of 5 on my scale.

So if you have great grades and are a meet the lowest criteria of a college baseball player you still would have the opportunity to play at 50% of the available schools. If you are baseball god and you just barely make the grade you have the same available pool of schools. It is important to point out that for the “average” kid seeking to play in college is a 7, if he has barely passing grades (5) only 35% of the potential schools would be available for him to play. If he was a 10 then he could have 70% of the schools available, a huge difference.

I caveat this analysis with the fact that it assumes linearity in all areas, which is not the case, but it should get the point across.


GPA BB Ability Opportunity (%)

10 10 100
10 9 90
10 8 80
10 7 70
10 6 60
10 5 50
10 X Don’t bother

10 10 100
9 10 90
8 10 80
7 10 70
6 10 60
5 10 50
x 10 Don’t bother

9 9 81
8 8 64
7 7 49
6 6 36
5 5 25

10 7 70
7 10 70
10 6 60

Interesting analysis BOF!

One small point that I would like to make to the youngsters out there is that there may be some coaches out there who equate classroom performance with the liklihood a player will be willing to work at baseball. I have no proof for this suspicion, but I could see a coach in the back of his mind thinking "Slacker in the classroom, slacker on the baseball field."

Don't be a slacker like Marty McFly - bust your humps so no doors are ever closed to you

There recently was a topic here regarding a player that signed an NLI and he didn't have the grades for D1 and question asked was that possible. I asked a HC if this was common as he had a player that was signed to go to attend his program and had all summer up until classes began to become eligible, he indicated this happens often. The bigger the program the more talent becomes more important than your GPA, borderline can get you in. Bobbleheaddad is not off the mark with his statement.

Of course if a player has talent and very good grades and test scores, the more programs you have your choice of and coaches know they have a recruit they most likely don't have to worry about as much as one that struggled in HS.
Now the player was drafted very high, but chose to attend JUCO. Did his talent get him signed over another player less talented with better grades? Most likely yes.
New rules makes bb money limited, one must have the rewuired GPA for academic money, that goes into the recruiting process why do you think coaches ask for grades and test scores before they offer?
Good points made by rz1, I have seen many folks spend lots of money getting their kids better and too be seen, but less on what they do in the classroom, that is so important.

I am not sure I agree 100% with you CD, but I do agree, some kids just don't have it in the classroom but bulldogs on the field.
There is a player from my town that was a sensation end of his HS year, didn't do well academically in school, most colleges shied away from him, he had the talent but not the grades.
He got drafted but not as high as he or his parents wanted for $$, and became a draft and follow, signed end of one JUCO year.
He probably isn't the brightest bulb in the pack but he has made the ML team.

To second a lot of what has already been posted, GRADES ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

My daughter works very hard at her grades but needs help. So, we send her to a "learning center" to get her assistance for her homework etc. She is also enrolled in an ACT Prep course. She is taking 3 honors courses (Calculus, Science, Spanish) but at our school, our grading scale is incrediably hard. 94% is an A 86% is a B, 78% is a C and 70% is a bottom D. So, you see, she knows that if she gets a 93%, she will have a B where all of her other friends on her summer softball team will have an A and many of them are battling for the same scholarship opportunities. Oh, our Honor's Courses are not weighted and so, you get the same result as if you took normal classes. That has always angered me.

So, GPA is important. Class Rank is also important for many scholarships out there. At one institution that is interested in my dd, if you have a 26 ACT you can qualify for about $7,000 extra. However, if you have a 26 and are top 10% of your class then you can qualify for $10,000.

Finally, ACT Prep or SAT Prep is becoming essential for monies. My dd has been preparing for the ACT for 3 months now. She will take the Feb. 6th test. Then, she will take the April test and then the June test. This is a strategy we've worked out with our counselors. She pre tested for a 22-24. Research shows that if they can take the test 3 times in a relatively close time span then they can increase their scores as much as 6 points. Should my child do that, then she would be in the $10,000 range. Well, I got a little carried away. I hope I haven't hijacked the thread.

CoachB25

What you say about the SAT/ACT is so very true---even a 100 point increase in the SAT can equate to a huge dollar increase in academic money

quote:

Originally posted by NP13:
How do colleges look at GPA? What is Acceptable / Good / Great? 2.5 / 3.0 / 3.5?

An unweighted 3.5 will open up a lot of options. I know kids playing at Ivies who had 3.5's in high school.

There are a couple of top end D3 academic schools in our area. They're both off the Blue Route. You can guess who they are. A HeadFirst contact told me one provides academic exceptions for athletes. At the other the player has to get accepted as a student.

If one was asked to choose between a top academic summa cum laude type vs a top baseball player I go with the later.

A $6.5M signing bonus 1st round dollars in the MLB amateur player draft versue a Rhodes Scholar or Nobel Peace Price is my choice.

Who recognizes Alain Locke (since it is not a known household name.) How about Stephen Strasburg?

Grades are more important to parents than coaches , case in point , 2 pitchers , 1 lefty , 1 righty , both throw in the 90's both above average pitchers . One has a gpa of 2.0 , one a 3.2 and good SAT's . Both are attending same D1 school here in Tampa . Righty graduated by a hair , lefty with a 3.2 . Only difference is lefty got a bit more help on academic side of scholarship . Coach looked at ability more so than grades .

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Dorminy:
Grades are more important to parents than coaches , case in point , 2 pitchers , 1 lefty , 1 righty , both throw in the 90's both above average pitchers . One has a gpa of 2.0 , one a 3.2 and good SAT's . Both are attending same D1 school here in Tampa . Righty graduated by a hair , lefty with a 3.2 . Only difference is lefty got a bit more help on academic side of scholarship . Coach looked at ability more so than grades .

Tom,
I think you are looking at one isolated case in the past. The recruiting landscape has changed drastically with the advent of the APR and Roster and Scholarship limits in just the past two years. This year, the NCAA has instituted another provision where coaches who cut players with a GPA over 2.6 are not dinged on their APR. That means that if the coach is going to take a risk on baseball potential, he'll give the nod to the player with the better grades so that if he cuts the kid in the future it won't impact his APR negatively.

Coaches always look at ability first. However, in todays world, that righty might never have been offered by that coach.

CPLZ

You would be surprised how many times a college coach has sat down with me or one of our coaches before a showcase or a trourament and go thru the grades with me on the kids---if the academics do not fit what he needs they are crossed off sight unseen and he moves on to the acadeically fit players

TR do you get clearance to reveal these grades ? You know with all the privacy rules today and the importance of the info.
Marks are important assuming you have the talent. I have saids this before that one of they first questions from coaches who were interested in my son was what was his GPA. That doesn't infer that it is as important as talent because it isn't. Coaches want to know you can stay eligible and that you can get some academic money taking the load off his BB money.
I also have seen 2.0 guys sign with big programs. One signed a MiLB contract instead of going to Oklahoma State and made it to MLB. He was a terrible student and barely made it out of HS. Another played D11. He was a bad student and had a terrible attitude. He was banned from HS sports in his SR year after knocking out a referee in HS hockey. He was drafted even though he had issues all through college. He hardly played because of his attitude. He was a bad actor all around but he could crush a ball.

"The importance of grades in high school..."

Cannot be over-stated!

A lot of the young men I've coached in summer ball have gone on to play college baseball, somewhere around 70 student-athletes. The one thing they had in commmon as much as their baseball ability was the ability to meet a certain standard in the classroom. Just being a "qualifier" isn't good enough, you have to strive to acheive at least a 3.0 and 1000 math and verbal. Can you get in with less, sure you can. Can you get into a lot more schools with those scores, darn right!

I'd encourage everyone to take SAT and/or ACT prep courses during their junior year. We're in the 4th year of running a private PSAT/SAT tutoring class through Kaplan, and it has been very successful in helping our junior students acheive higher scores. In the case of a few boys, it has meant the difference between being admitted or not. Just as importantly in a few cases, it has meant the difference between more scholarship money or less. In some cases it has meant getting into a better university than they'd have gotten into without those higher scores.

Academic aid, at least for the schools out in this part of the country, generally starts to flow around 3.6 GPA. Below that, figure that you might get athletic aid, but you're not going to get academic aid in most cases.

If a young man is serious about playing college baseball, he'll take his academics every bit as serious as his baseball endeavors. This should begin his freshman year, not later.

Bobblehead, I wanted to comment on your question to TR seperately from my other post. I have no problem discussing academics with any college coach, and I think most lower level coaches are the same. They boys who play summer ball in our program understand why they are there, and a big part of that is to further their opportunities toward playing in college. If they want that help, then their academics are on the table, if they don't they can go somewhere else.

One of the worst days I ever had in summer ball was responding to Matt Hobbs, then the recruiting coordinator for UC San Diego (one of the top academic universities in the country). Coach Hobss pointed out 3 of our players and told me he was interested in all three potentially becoming Tritons, and asked me what I could tell him about the three boys. My reply was to the point, I said "I can tell you everything you need to know about all three of them. None are academically eligible to get into your university. One has a 3.1 and the other two are 2.9-3.0 guys."

It takes at least a 3.6 to get into UCSD, so they were out of luck. Now, it worked out OK, as one of them is now playing in the Big West, another in the WAC and the 3rd in jr. college, but they all missed out on a chance to be recruited to attend one of the top universities around.

Grades matter, and coaches who care discuss academics as freely as they discuss baseball ability.

No coach my son played for had access to my son's transcripts.
Those 3 guys might have got in on an athletic admit just like many do in the Ivies. A ticked off parent who found out you played a role in their sons not getting a shot just might hire a sharp attorney.
I would suggest you get permission from your players.

I would also add that none of our coaches had any contact with the colleges we talked to. We didn't leave my son's fate in the hands of coaches.