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There is no shortage of people out there who point to Covid still being around/Covid deaths as proof that we didn't do enough to between March and now.  And that we haven't done enough to "deserve" college football/sports or whatever.  The finger pointing towards all our transgressions and failures is abundant.

But for some reason, I don't feel guilty.  I am not drowning in shame.  I sleep well at night.  Those that feel I haven't earned a return to normalcy would likely say I don't feel any guilt because I don't care for others.  Because I am self-centered.  Because I was selfish in helping my son get out to play some ball this summer.  That I blew everyone's chances out of greed and impatience.

For anyone who feels that way, I'm drawing a line right here, right now.  I'm pushing back on your ignorant narrative.  I absolutely HAVE done my part.  I am far from perfect, but I have done a ton to help us all weather this storm.  I've sacrificed so many things to help make this thing end sooner than later.  Things are that incredibly important to me and my family and make my life worth living.  I've lost income.  I've stayed at home.  I've had to cash in my 401k to keep food on the table.  I've sold things that were important to me.  Further, I've taken extra precautions like washing my hands way more, constantly sanitizing, social distancing from my loved ones, and wearing a mask that I loathe 95% of the time I walk into a public place.  I've kept my public appearances to a minimum.  Not taken a single day of vacation.  I could go on and on, but I want to pass the torch on now.  Join me in educating those that feel you haven't done enough to deserve a return to the things that make you happy and add value and meaning to your life.

Reply to this post and let us know what you've done in the name of beating this thing.  Let us know the sacrifices you've made.  It's way passed time that our story is heard.

Original Post

I have done a lot more to accommodate those I love.  I didn't go visit my parents until my dad went in the hospital and was in the center of it.  Tested negative and now I go visit when I can (6 hours away).  I have done a tremendous amount of extra work at my job (pastor) to accommodate all ages.  I'm doing 2 extra Bible studies a week online for those who can't get out.  I preach an extra service outside in 90 degree heat for those who only feel they can come to a drive-in service rather than in sanctuary.  I abided by governor's stupid rules with the league I ran this summer even though I did not agree.  I wear a mask when I go to a restaurant my wife wants to go to who requires a mask.  Other than that I don't wear a mask or go to a business or restaurant that requires one.  Last but not least I've listened to some people that I would never listen to before who have crazy arguments on the fact that sports teams can't play and people can't go to church and restaurants and businesses have to wear masks but thousands of people can gather together and riot and burn stuff but they don't have to wear a mask.  When a person can be arrested for going to church without a mask or when they are told not to but thousands can riot and protest without being arrested our world has lost it's mind.

I’m a germaphobe and always wanted to avoid getting sick/the flu, so I’ve been social distancing, over washing my hands and avoid touching my face long before it was fashionable 

Had to console my daughter as she could not celebrate her college graduation.  Instead we created  video message collage that will last a lifetime.

I try my best to take the high road when trying to explain to my 2 college aged kids why they need to spend another semester at home, rather than enjoying their college experience.

I’ve seen my father once since March.  No Easter brunch, Fathers Day or birthday celebration with him.

My uncle and godfather passed away 3 weeks ago in Florida of a sudden heart attack, but none of us could gather to celebrate his life, or console my 94 year old grandfather who just lost his only son.

I wear my dreaded mask

I have never tipped takeout cashiers and servers as much as I do now

I got tested when I travelled to be sure I didn’t impact anyone 

I keep quiet when I see/hear hypocrisy from those whose actions don’t match their words.

 

I have really struggled with some of these recent threads.  Notions like, "we don't deserve ..." seem like a lot of entitlement.  When  I was born, we were the poorest family in the school.  My mom and dad were sharecroppers and we lived in a one room sharecropping shack that few could believe.  In fact, 7 of us lived there.  I watch my parents and grandparents battle every day to put food on the table.  I've seen my dad torn apart from an accident with a 8 inch cut across his face and head go to work the next day.  So what, we don't have sports now.  Do you have your health?  If so, that is a blessing.  Are your loved ones healthy?  If so, that is a blessing.  Sports are games.  Sure they serve an important part of our society.  However, in the larger game of life, there are so many more important things.  I look forward to being able to watch sports but until then, I'll count my Blessings and give thanks each night for another day.  

I’ve followed the rules and no more. I don’t like wearing a mask. But I don’t fight it. I hold it over my face when I enter the store. I hold it in my hand if I’m not near anyone. Once, a women ran down the aisle I was in and started screaming at me. She’s the only person I’ve been resistant towards.

When I’m working in the morning I’m home alone. I haven’t seen my better half  for five months now. She’s with her 92yo mother in Florida. I can’t travel down and walk in the house. She has to be careful about walking out.

I prefer dining outdoors as soon as it’s warm enough. I’ve dined out every week in either Maine or Massachusetts. My friends aren’t taking day to day risks as I’m not. A mask is only needed at the hostess station. If Dunkin was open inside I would be in  with my regular acquaintances. I’ve always sat a table away. They’re long time buddies. I read news and join the conversation at times. We sit at the picnic tables outside. I stay away from the one person who is proving to the world he’s not wearing a mask anywhere. On rainy days I’m sitting in Panera. It’s never busy. 

I’ve been notified five times I’m in a COVID trace line. Every time it’s been the 20 something adult kid (or one of their friends) of my friends who tested positive. None of my friends (my contacts) have tested positive.

As always I’ve done a lot of biking. I started earlier this year and I’m biking further and faster. It’s driving me nuts I have to take off two weeks. I was in an accident last week when a car decided the bike lane could be used as a passing lane. Fortunately, I know how to fall. I only broke two fingers and tore finger ligaments enough I’m in a soft, taped cast. Maine had an order people had to wear masks off their property. After a week of hassling cyclists they stopped. 

As I’ve gone back and forth between Maine and Massachusetts I’ve told my Maine friends I’ve been in Massachusetts. No one has objected to seeing me. I’ve told them not to be afraid to tell me not to get together. I haven’t gone into the city or been on public transportation. The three town area I’m in on the North Shore of Boston  (Nahant, Swampscott, Marblehead) is less populated than the area I’m cruising in Maine (Falmouth, North Windham, Portland, South Portland, Cape Elizabeth). But, while Maine has only had 120 deaths Essex County alone has had 1,200.

One thing having MLB to watch has reminded me is how boring MLB baseball can be if your team isn’t a contender to win it all. I won’t watch the NBA since it’s a social justice rally with basketball as a side show. Fortunately the Stanley Cup playoffs start tomorrow. 

Other than not seeing my significant other or traveling to see my kids every two or three months life is mostly back to normal. I had to cancel a trip to Israel and Jordan. But, we’ll go next year.

Last edited by RJM

I am with Coachb25 here.

We are still only half way to the number of people ding that are killed by medical professionals each year.  That's right estimates are medical mistakes kill about 275,000 people each year.  Yet here we are thinking the plague has arrived among us and we must "show" we are doing something to defeat it.

This thing is awful - but far from the end of the world.  Darwin might even observe this is a necessary thing to cull the heard - because it can be argued we have too many lumpy excuses for people - I am one of them.  

Our great-great grandparents from the 1800's had 50-60 year life expectancies died in huge numbers from TB and dysentery.  They dug holes to crap in lived in the dark when the sun went down.  I am sure they are laughing at us wishing they had our problems.  I would if I were them. 

Suck it up and press forward.  Hopefully our great-great grandchildren will be as grateful to us as I am of mine.  Do what you think you must but if you have stopped living and gone to ground - I think that is not really living at all.  The entire history of human beings is to face the hazard and overcome.  At some point a generation will come along and fail - I hope we are not it.

My wife and I have lost a number of relatives, friends and acquaintances to this virus.   Most of the relatives were older and didn't know what was going on.   The sad part is they are sitting in a morgue somewhere, and there has been no celebration of their lives or opportunity for the family to grieve together.  My mother in law is in a senior home by herself and essentially not allowed to leave her place.   Her husband was gathered up by his sons and daughters and taken away from her to live with them two hundred miles away because they thought he was on deaths door.   He was never asked if he wanted to go live with them .  Now, they can't return him without a 14-day quarantine.

We've done everything to protect ourselves during this pandemic.  Mostly, we've had to "lay it on thick" to my oldest son and daughter in law who moved to New Jersey during the height of the pandemic in the NYC area.  When they left Virginia, my son kept telling me this thing will pass quickly and they'll be okay.   A couple weeks later he called me to tell me how serious this is in NJ/NY/CT and he is taking every precaution.   So, at the least I'm glad I opened his eyes.   My middle son's wedding is still scheduled for late October, but not sure how that is going to work out.   He may end up going to the justice of the peace, and throwing a small party (with masks) in his backyard instead.    My youngest is in the military and they have an interesting process of testing, protecting their soldiers.   

My parents live in a very nice retirement community an hour away.   I haven't seen them since Christmas.  My wife had to cancel a trip to the Galapagos with her sister in March, we've cancelled our trip to Ireland in September.  I was really pissed about that, but we've made other domestic trip plans.    The Europeans have wisely chosen not to let Americans in, and made controlling the spread job #1 across multiple independent countries.   Well done Europe, and I would have done the same thing if I were you.

Bottom line is this has to be a country wide effort.   Many parts of our society are doing the right things, and not allowing it to spread in certain areas.   However, the bottom line is it has to be everyone (young & old, north & south, east and west) doing there part or it doesn't get done.  Everybody has to make this job #1, and stick with it.

Last edited by fenwaysouth

Everything my family has done is pretty much the same as what most of you have posted. I will say, the saddest moment of this whole thing for me was my annual guy's trip to the Boston area with my son. We've been doing it for 8 years now and have created some neat traditions. Couldn't do any of the things we normally do in Boston, including a trip to Fenway. That was disappointing, but nowhere near as bad as the visit to see my grandmother. She's 92 and healthy but has asthma. She lives with my aunt and uncle. My aunt had us sit on one side of the porch with masks and my grandmother on the other. Grandmother kept asking us to sit closer and to give her a hug. She went on about she didn't care about the virus and she wouldn't want to die in a few months and not being able to hug us one last time. I've always been very close with her and it killed me to not break the rules my aunt made. 

I spoke with her the other day and she seems very depressed. My aunt and uncle have basically separated the parts of the house so they don't really interact other than talking through a door. or window. 

TerribleBPThrower, this is the part that is sad.  I have kids of our Senior Adults that have put so many restraints on them that they have said this is not living.  The kids are so afraid of the virus that they won't let their parents do anything.  One couple has not left their house or seen anyone other than by technology which they can't use very good in going on 6 months.  The man told me over the phone that he is sick of this.  The daughter is such a germophobic that her father in law has it even though he has shown no symptoms but was tested positive.  She has quarantined herself and her husband for 3 weeks now even though both tested negative.  How do people get this afraid of something?  I don't want to die but I also love to live.  I choose not to go places that restrict my ability to live. I understand if others choose to live this way but I refuse to completely change how I live and yet am adamant I protect those who are vulnerable most of the time by staying away unless they want me to come see them.  I have several senior adults who say give me a hug or shake my hand. 

I appreciate this topic, DanJ thank you. 

Fenway, excellent post.   To everyone who has lost friends and family, I am sorry. As many are aware, I live in one of those 3 hot bed counties in South Florida.  I also live in a retirement community, which has been very strict regarding masks and social distancing. Of the thousands that live here, only a few have passed away, only about 30 have become ill.  I am fortunate enough to have not lost any family member or friend from the virus. I have had 2 COVID tests as well as serum for antibodies. It's offered and encouraged in my community to control the spread of the virus and paid for by my Medicare part B. Yes, I am one of those people often talked about, how we should stay inside and let the young live their lives!

My husband almost died from kidney failure in early February. He had double pnuemonia, hospitalized three times, the last because his kidneys were failing due to all the prednisone he was on.  He is a severe asthmatic. So because of that, he stays close to the house, I have had to be very careful where I go and who I see. My husband is a Medicare representative, some very elderly now, so we make sure that we speak to them regularly and in some cases my husband speaks to  their family members who are far away from their parents. He has not lost 1 client.  He also is a Life Coach and speaks to homeless vets he has found homes for, and makes sure they take advantage of their benefits.  I spend part of my days making sure my elderly neighbors, who are alone are ok. I was suppose to work the polls this year, but that can't happen.  We do our part to help the greatest generation have something to look forward to daily. Even a phone call is appreciated.

I have worn a mask, since day 1.  We see our kids regularly, we sit on our catwalk outside and have dinner, drinks, laughs.  But we stay apart and wear masks, as mandated by our community. We often go to my daughter's who has a beautiful home and a beautiful patio so social distancing is easy, but we still wear masks. They have 2 teens so we don't go inside. They both have their circle of friends they are close with so they are careful where they go and who they see as well. Son is back to work, and preparing for the team to come back in a few weeks. We don't go to the gym but we find ways to exercise outdoors but it is extremely hot these days.  No vacations this summer and my daughter and I canceled our annual birthday trip. 

I don't sleep well at night, I feel like I am in a nightmare and can't wake up.  My last memory before this began, arriving at the stadium for a game against Penn State, seeing everyone, their players and parents crying because there season was over and they could not play the game. I felt terrible, little did I know that the next day all sports would be canceled. I am very disappointed in how poorly our government  has handled this nightmare.

I am in agreement with Fenway, we are in this together  and we all need to do our part. Everywhere. I am amazed how simply wearing a mask makes some people fill with anger and rage.

To those who comply, thank you.

 

 

 

We are lucky (?) Our lives haven't changed much — mostly because my husband and I worked from home before the pandemic. My business hasn't suffered because I provide information about our town of 15,000 and people are hungry for it, including the daily COVID counts I provide.

I have a small group of friends, including my 80-year-old father. After weeks of drinking together over Zoom, we now gather in a backyard once or twice a week. It's BYOE (bring your own everything), from chair to beverage to snacks.

I wear a mask everywhere I go outside of the house, and honestly, now find it comforting. I feel safer behind it. After a few weeks of high case counts, my community hasn't had a case since Friday. Our county had just two yesterday. Our county fair held livestock shows two weeks ago. My husband and I live streamed all the shows to help keep attendance down. So far, no outbreaks from it.

Our year-round school started last week and reported one case at the end of he week. Our college has athletes showing up this week. They have laid good plans, now we'll see how they work out.

Despite all of the things that are the same, it all feels so different. I feel safe behind my mask and in my car. The world seems like a lonelier place.

We are still only half way to the number of people ding that are killed by medical professionals each year.  That's right estimates are medical mistakes kill about 275,000 people each year.  Yet here we are thinking the plague has arrived among us and we must "show" we are doing something to defeat it.

 

I don’t like posting on these threads, but I feel like it’s necessary when information is inaccurately presented as “facts”. One legitimate study by a surgeon at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine used insurance claims related to medical mistakes from 2000-2008 to estimate 250,000 deaths annually from medical mistakes. No other study supports that number, or even comes close. Medical mistakes are real, but most other studies put the number at less than 10% of that. Using real data from CDC, COVID-19 will be the 3rd leading cause of death in the U.S. in 2020 after Heart Disease and Cancer.

Interesting topic.

As to what we have done to beat the virus, nothing really changed much for us.  I had already been working from home for two years.  Wife and daughter's jobs were classified as "essential" so they still had to go to work.  At one point the offices were the wife works were closed to the public and everything had to be done via email or online.   She is employed by a storage company.  A month ago when the state entered into phase 3, the offices have been reopened to the public and she has to wear a mask whenever a customer enters the office.

Daughter works at the local McDonald's.   They closed the lobby to eat-in dining and are drive thru only.   She has to have her temperature checked prior to starting her shift and must wear a mask.

The only real change for me was not going to church early in the shutdown.  Our services have since resumed, but are abbreviated with very little singing or verbal responses.   Sunday school is still suspended.   I still go to the store as needed and ferry my daughter to work.  And go to the dump every 3-4 weeks as needed.  I do wear a mask when entering an establishment.   At first many dine in restaurants had their lobby's closed, but have reopened them under the phase 3 guidelines (50% capacity).  We have resumed going out once or twice a week, but not all restaurants have reopened their lobby's.

Fortunately we live in a rural county = population ~25,000.   To date only 124 confirmed cases and only 4 deaths.

The schools restart on August 17th, but will be virtual only.  The school district has been reaching out to see who has high speed internet and who may need computers/laptops to get online.  If all goes well, the children will be allowed to attend school sometime in October.

VHSL (Virginia High School League) has postponed all fall sports until December.  IF I have remembered correctly, fall sports will be from December - January, winter sports from February to March and spring sports from April to June.  Subject to change.  Probably no playoffs and doubtful a normal full schedule.  I imagine, but I don't know for sure, but public attendance to games (namely football and basketball) may be limited.

 

We've done a lot but accomplished very little. Americans were told they needed to flatten the curve, and so we shutdown like other countries. Problem is this - shutdowns are designed to do two things: 1) slow the spread and 2) give society time to organize widespread testing AND a robust contact tracing program that determines the contacts of an infected person. After shutdown lifts, the state can quarantine folks who have tested positive and the rest of us can get back to it.  

If you don't do the second bit, all you've done is slow the curve and delay the next spike in numbers.

Dozens of countries managed to do this in a reasonable way. We didn't.

I am overseas for work and did not come home for my younger daughter's Big 10 Championship game, my father's death or funeral, to move my older daughter into her first apartment for her senior year, or to see all of the fun things happening for my son this summer like the Ultimate Baseball Championship and East Coast Pro. My son and husband returned from GA this morning and will test and quarantine per the requirements of our governor since they were in states with an incident rate of more than 10%. Here in Mozambique, we primarily work from home, wear masks and wash our hands before entering office, stores or any public places. I am praying that things will have stabilized enough by September for me to be able to see my family and to go to the PGAA Classic in OK if it happens. Having said that, my kids and my husband and my Mom are all healthy and well. Technology allows us to stay in touch much better than would have been possible even 5 years ago and my three kids got to spend months of quality time together which hasn't happened in years because of their normally busy schedules. It has been hard for us and harder for others but there have been COVID rainbows and I am grateful. 

@OskiSD posted:

We've done a lot but accomplished very little. Americans were told they needed to flatten the curve, and so we shutdown like other countries. Problem is this - shutdowns are designed to do two things: 1) slow the spread and 2) give society time to organize widespread testing AND a robust contact tracing program that determines the contacts of an infected person. After shutdown lifts, the state can quarantine folks who have tested positive and the rest of us can get back to it.  

If you don't do the second bit, all you've done is slow the curve and delay the next spike in numbers.

Dozens of countries managed to do this in a reasonable way. We didn't.

Thank you for a very succinct and accurate explanation of the situation. I've been trying to get this simple idea through to so many people and had given up hope of anyone's comprehension. Seems everyone only heard part 1 - part 2 is just as critical, but no one remembers that. 

Okay, well, I've failed.  Maybe it's more appropriate to say WE here in the HSBW have failed.  The purpose of this thread was to help bring to light all the good we've done to combat this thing.  All we've sacrificed for the greater good.  Some of you did just that and I sincerely thank you.  But many simply couldn't resist hijacking this.  Many simple couldn't pass up another chance to take even a subtle shot.  Couldn't pass up the opportunity to blame or argue.  To further divide.  HSBW people, I see your names/user names dropping shots and blame on other threads.  I've seen your feelings, your opinions and "facts" on countless other threads.  Believe me when I say that your messages were received.  This thread was supposed to be something different, but you were incapable of self restraint. 

So here's the deal.  Everybody jam this thread full of whatever fills your bucket.  Sling mud, point your fingers, stand on your soapbox, belittle the efforts and sacrifices of others.  I'll give you the rest of the day and tonight, but tomorrow morning I am going to delete the thread.

To everyone who has done a ton and sacrificed a ton to combat this thing, but are continually told you haven't done near enough, thank you.  Thank you for your efforts.  Thank you for your help and sacrifice.  All you've done and continue to do is not worthless.  It matters.

@OskiSD posted:

We've done a lot but accomplished very little. Americans were told they needed to flatten the curve, and so we shutdown like other countries. Problem is this - shutdowns are designed to do two things: 1) slow the spread and 2) give society time to organize widespread testing AND a robust contact tracing program that determines the contacts of an infected person. After shutdown lifts, the state can quarantine folks who have tested positive and the rest of us can get back to it.  

If you don't do the second bit, all you've done is slow the curve and delay the next spike in numbers.

Dozens of countries managed to do this in a reasonable way. We didn't.

They put a ton of effort into item 2 in Louisiana and it didn't do anything except increase the number of cases with respect to other states.  Notice we have the highest per capita number of tests AND active cases in the US (or at least we did a couple of weeks ago).  Contact tracing didn't work because a majority of people didn't answer the phone.   Also, 70% of people refused to give out the phone numbers of people they were in contact with.  I guess, they could have compelled them to do so, but I don't think that would work so well in the US. 

@DanJ posted:

Okay, well, I've failed.  Maybe it's more appropriate to say WE here in the HSBW have failed.  The purpose of this thread was to help bring to light all the good we've done to combat this thing.  All we've sacrificed for the greater good.  Some of you did just that and I sincerely thank you.  But many simply couldn't resist hijacking this.  Many simple couldn't pass up another chance to take even a subtle shot.  Couldn't pass up the opportunity to blame or argue.  To further divide.  HSBW people, I see your names/user names dropping shots and blame on other threads.  I've seen your feelings, your opinions and "facts" on countless other threads.  Believe me when I say that your messages were received.  This thread was supposed to be something different, but you were incapable of self restraint. 

So here's the deal.  Everybody jam this thread full of whatever fills your bucket.  Sling mud, point your fingers, stand on your soapbox, belittle the efforts and sacrifices of others.  I'll give you the rest of the day and tonight, but tomorrow morning I am going to delete the thread.

To everyone who has done a ton and sacrificed a ton to combat this thing, but are continually told you haven't done near enough, thank you.  Thank you for your efforts.  Thank you for your help and sacrifice.  All you've done and continue to do is not worthless.  It matters.

Sorry, I didn't mean to engage in the back and forth, but hopefully you will see that it was respectful.  I will say that I am making sure that anybody who doesn't want to do my class in face to face mode will get good material.  It takes a certain amount of rethinking how to teach a class.  My wife is teaching in class students and remote students at the same time.  It is much more difficult for her than me.

@2019&21 Dad posted:

Thank you for a very succinct and accurate explanation of the situation. I've been trying to get this simple idea through to so many people and had given up hope of anyone's comprehension. Seems everyone only heard part 1 - part 2 is just as critical, but no one remembers that. 

You're welcome. I have friends in Korea who tell me their children (ten and twelve) know the process because the media, gov't and civil society (everything from business to unions to social organizations) communicate the same general thing - get tested, give us access to your location data, create a web of contacts, test those folks quickly, quarantine those who are positive. We've not done very well in that regard. 

@Viking0 posted:

They put a ton of effort into item 2 in Louisiana and it didn't do anything except increase the number of cases with respect to other states.  Notice we have the highest per capita number of tests AND active cases in the US (or at least we did a couple of weeks ago).  Contact tracing didn't work because a majority of people didn't answer the phone.   Also, 70% of people refused to give out the phone numbers of people they were in contact with.  I guess, they could have compelled them to do so, but I don't think that would work so well in the US. 

That's a very valid point. These efforts don't work unless people buy in to the process (i.e., answer their phone, divulge contacts, etc). It's fascinating how resistant we are to those sorts of interventions when compared with, well, pretty much every other country that exists. There are some really interesting articles about the invasive nature of the responses in Taiwan and Korea.

 

@DanJ posted:

Okay, well, I've failed.  Maybe it's more appropriate to say WE here in the HSBW have failed.  The purpose of this thread was to help bring to light all the good we've done to combat this thing.  All we've sacrificed for the greater good.  Some of you did just that and I sincerely thank you.  But many simply couldn't resist hijacking this.  Many simple couldn't pass up another chance to take even a subtle shot.  Couldn't pass up the opportunity to blame or argue.  To further divide.  HSBW people, I see your names/user names dropping shots and blame on other threads.  I've seen your feelings, your opinions and "facts" on countless other threads.  Believe me when I say that your messages were received.  This thread was supposed to be something different, but you were incapable of self restraint. 

So here's the deal.  Everybody jam this thread full of whatever fills your bucket.  Sling mud, point your fingers, stand on your soapbox, belittle the efforts and sacrifices of others.  I'll give you the rest of the day and tonight, but tomorrow morning I am going to delete the thread.

To everyone who has done a ton and sacrificed a ton to combat this thing, but are continually told you haven't done near enough, thank you.  Thank you for your efforts.  Thank you for your help and sacrifice.  All you've done and continue to do is not worthless.  It matters.

It's possible for everyone on this forum and all of their friends and families to have done a 'great' job and for our society to fail. It's a collective action problem. No intention of suggesting that anyone here is to blame for anything related to COVID. 

Even though I've posted on these threads, I'd support an indefinite moratorium on them. It's too divisive an issue for this particular sandbox, IMO. 

@OskiSD posted:

You're welcome. I have friends in Korea who tell me their children (ten and twelve) know the process because the media, gov't and civil society (everything from business to unions to social organizations) communicate the same general thing - get tested, give us access to your location data, create a web of contacts, test those folks quickly, quarantine those who are positive. We've not done very well in that regard. 

Feel free to move to Korea.  This is America. 

@OskiSD posted:

That's a very valid point. These efforts don't work unless people buy in to the process (i.e., answer their phone, divulge contacts, etc). It's fascinating how resistant we are to those sorts of interventions when compared with, well, pretty much every other country that exists. There are some really interesting articles about the invasive nature of the responses in Taiwan and Korea.

 

Yeah, freedom is funny that way.  A few 100 years of resisting being told what to do makes folks a tad independent. 

I always find It odd when people try to compare actions and outcomes in the US with relatively small homogeneous countries.  Diversity is celebrated until something doesn't work like Korea then damn it, why can't we all think and act the same......

@PTWood posted:

I am overseas for work and did not come home for my younger daughter's Big 10 Championship game, my father's death or funeral, to move my older daughter into her first apartment for her senior year, or to see all of the fun things happening for my son this summer like the Ultimate Baseball Championship and East Coast Pro. My son and husband returned from GA this morning and will test and quarantine per the requirements of our governor since they were in states with an incident rate of more than 10%. Here in Mozambique, we primarily work from home, wear masks and wash our hands before entering office, stores or any public places. I am praying that things will have stabilized enough by September for me to be able to see my family and to go to the PGAA Classic in OK if it happens. Having said that, my kids and my husband and my Mom are all healthy and well. Technology allows us to stay in touch much better than would have been possible even 5 years ago and my three kids got to spend months of quality time together which hasn't happened in years because of their normally busy schedules. It has been hard for us and harder for others but there have been COVID rainbows and I am grateful. 

What an interesting story. Sounds like a wonderful family that you have.  I would love to know what you do in Mozambique!

And kudos to your husband and son for taking the time to quarantine.

Here in Florida, that was supposed to happen but it hasn't. One of the reasons we became a hot spot.

I don’t like posting on these threads, but I feel like it’s necessary when information is inaccurately presented as “facts”. One legitimate study by a surgeon at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine used insurance claims related to medical mistakes from 2000-2008 to estimate 250,000 deaths annually from medical mistakes. No other study supports that number, or even comes close. Medical mistakes are real, but most other studies put the number at less than 10% of that. Using real data from CDC, COVID-19 will be the 3rd leading cause of death in the U.S. in 2020 after Heart Disease and Cancer.

In May 2016, the British Medical Journal (BMJ) published an article with the headline: Medical error—the third leading cause of death in the U.S. The article estimated that as many as 250,000 deaths per year in the United States were caused by medical error. This was a sharp increase from the first major report on error-related deaths.

So it is not just Johns Hopkins that has studied and published on this specific issue.  These are not fly by night people making these claims even though there is dispute on the numbers and counting.  Does that sound familiar?

It is an really just a side comment to the real point which is we have completely overreacted to Covid.  IMO there is a widespread  sense that somehow this is the worst thing in history when it isn't even the worst thing this year.  Malaria will kill 1 Million and starvation will kill 9million this year alone.  In the US we don't know anything about this because malaria was eradicated decades ago and no one in he US starves because it happens so infrequently the CDC doesn't even track it as a cause of death. Seriously folks there is no number available for people in the US that starve, 

The problem with food in the US is we eat too much and diabetes and heart problems are leading causes of death.  In what qualifies for ghettos in the US are a bunch of fat slobs eating themselves to death making the US the only country in history where the poor people have too much to the point it is killing them.  If you wanted to say something truly controversial we should defund welfare and not the police if you are worried about what kills minorities in America.

How can any of this be?  Because we have the greatest economy in the history of the world.  Americans bitching about anything is a damn embarrassment.  We are a bunch of whiney selfish uninformed babies that really need to buy a clue about what is happening in the world.  Count your blessings you could live in Africa or Central America where things really do suck.  

Perspective folks....perspective.  We need more all around.  End of my old guy rant - please do not be offended but do think about it.

Luv, Since I am currently living in Mozambique and have spent the past 7 years actively fighting malaria throughout Africa, arboviruses in Latin American/the Caribbean and now HIV in Mozambique I can tell you that it is OK for us to worry about COVID in the US. IMHO human beings should have the capacity to work on more than one disease/issue at a time. I agree that most Americans do not pay enough attention to food insecurity because it does not affect them and it's not "contagious" but  my response would be that the existence of malaria or the fact that starvation kills  should not be our excuse to not take reasonable precautions against COVID. We should be working on food insecurity AND malaria AND COVID. In fact, COVID is compromising malaria control programs (net distribution, IRS campaigns), contributing to possible increases in deaths from malaria (and HIV and TB, etc...) in the future. Also, one minor clarification, human actions have cut malaria deaths by more than half from the 1 million you cited down to 405k in the most recent reported year. That means that, even if you assume over-reporting and you reduce the COVID deaths in the Hopkins tracker by 30%, there have still been more deaths from COVID in the first 8 months of 2020 than in all of 2018 from malaria. 

Finally, you can hide behind "don't be offended I'm just an old guy" but there were plenty of offensive comments and stereotypes in your post. From what I've seen, there are very few whiney or ill-informed people on this page. We might not always disagree but everyone seems to be intelligent and articulate. FWIW, I am a minority and I have never been on welfare/lived in a ghetto/been overweight but my husband's family periodically relied on food stamps because the job his mother had cleaning at hotels and the two jobs his father had working at a fish farm and maintaining lawns was not always enough to put food on the table.  And the reason those were their jobs was not because they were fat and lazy. It was because they grew up in a very segregated south in the early 1900s when higher education and upward mobility was nearly impossible for black people.  

As you said, please don't be offended, but do think about it. 

 

@PTWood posted:

Luv, Since I am currently living in Mozambique and have spent the past 7 years actively fighting malaria throughout Africa, arboviruses in Latin American/the Caribbean and now HIV in Mozambique I can tell you that it is OK for us to worry about COVID in the US. IMHO human beings should have the capacity to work on more than one disease/issue at a time. I agree that most Americans do not pay enough attention to food insecurity because it does not affect them and it's not "contagious" but  my response would be that the existence of malaria or the fact that starvation kills  should not be our excuse to not take reasonable precautions against COVID. We should be working on food insecurity AND malaria AND COVID. In fact, COVID is compromising malaria control programs (net distribution, IRS campaigns), contributing to possible increases in deaths from malaria (and HIV and TB, etc...) in the future. Also, one minor clarification, human actions have cut malaria deaths by more than half from the 1 million you cited down to 405k in the most recent reported year. That means that, even if you assume over-reporting and you reduce the COVID deaths in the Hopkins tracker by 30%, there have still been more deaths from COVID in the first 8 months of 2020 than in all of 2018 from malaria. 

Finally, you can hide behind "don't be offended I'm just an old guy" but there were plenty of offensive comments and stereotypes in your post. From what I've seen, there are very few whiney or ill-informed people on this page. We might not always disagree but everyone seems to be intelligent and articulate. FWIW, I am a minority and I have never been on welfare/lived in a ghetto/been overweight but my husband's family periodically relied on food stamps because the job his mother had cleaning at hotels and the two jobs his father had working at a fish farm and maintaining lawns was not always enough to put food on the table.  And the reason those were their jobs was not because they were fat and lazy. It was because they grew up in a very segregated south in the early 1900s when higher education and upward mobility was nearly impossible for black people.  

As you said, please don't be offended, but do think about it. 

 

I wish I knew how to post a clapping GIF. Nice post

In May 2016, the British Medical Journal (BMJ) published an article with the headline: Medical error—the third leading cause of death in the U.S. The article estimated that as many as 250,000 deaths per year in the United States were caused by medical error. This was a sharp increase from the first major report on error-related deaths.

So it is not just Johns Hopkins that has studied and published on this specific issue.  These are not fly by night people making these claims even though there is dispute on the numbers and counting.  Does that sound familiar?

 

Yes, there are many studies on medical errors, but the BMJ article you linked above is the Hopkins study (Makary). The one that's so far off from all the others.

I am in NYC. Back in late March I got a low grade fever and immediately quarantined from my kids (I'm divorced, so was a little easier logistically). Never got real sick, but felt off for 2 weekends (better during the week). When testing became easier in late April I went and got an antibody test and tested positive. I wanted a T-shirt advertising this ;-). I tried volunteering at some local supermarkets but wasn't able to.

Anyway, I wear a mask when out. Sometimes I almost forget I'm wearing it, and it'll stay on in my car. My kids don't take it too seriously and I stay on them. 

I did meet my current girlfriend during this, so there's that ;-).

PTWood

I am Unclear what you are speaking of regarding calling anyone lazy.  Nothing stated nor even implied in my post in this regard.  Your family's efforts reflect a larger truth in the US that people will make the effort to improve their circumstance.  It is what makes us go and I could not agree more with that sentiment.   

My comment that the welfare state has contributed to create health issues due to overweight people is not really even debatable - it is a simple fact.  Any examination of health related problems for Americans shows that diabetes and high blood pressure due to obesity are top killers numbering in the 100's of thousands each year.  All of this means too much too eat is the leading cause of death in US.  Our so called ghettos (poorest among us) are populated with a bunch of overweight people and the US is the only country in history to have this problem. 

I am curious how many people in Mozambique living in the ghetto have BMI greater than 35.  Might be able to count them on your fingers and toes I'd guess.  It is that weight being carried around in the US that is more likely to kill than anything else.  

I did observe that if you wanted to make a controversial point - the magnitude of damage to lives for African Americans due to weight related issues dwarfs the deaths caused by police which are about 300.  Inferring that the welfare state could actually be damaging health in ways we do not normally consider is a novel idea when one stops to think about it.  The only reason it might be considered controversial is that is goes against the grain of the current zeitgeist.    

If the numbers on Malaria are dated and if my reference to various studies is disputable so be it.  Again all of this is only marginally related to my point which I will simplify:

Covid sucks.  It is not close to the worst problem humanity has faced and it isn't even this years worst problem.  Americans generally are uninformed self absorbed whiners...and it is embarrassing.  

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