What to do when coach starts playing "Daddy Ball"

Change teams?

Happens alot at the early years. Usually don't see too much of it by age 11 or 12.

To me changing teams at any time signifies a quitter

If you believe in your talent you stay and WIN the war!

If you run this early you will run the rest of your life

BB ~

Looks to me like more information is needed in order to give proper advice.

Sometimes change is mandated. i.e. safety/health issues....

Sometimes change is a sign of weakness. i.e. not getting one's way/difference of philosophy

Too many intangibles to be able to answer sagely.

I agree with TR. We wouldn't quit as we made a commitment to this team. What kind of parents would we be if we just quit to find greener pastures (and as we all know they may not be greener)? Fortunatley my son's hard work and dedication is making it very difficult to justify keeping him out of the line up. But, there are several players on the team whose fathers happen to be the coaches. One of them is several years younger and although a good player for his age, not able to play with this age group. It was made clear to our boys that LL would be difficult to do as the travel team should always be first priority. So while every player on the team gave up their final year of LL (12's) coaches son decided to play and dad decided to take his team! His brother is clearly not the strongest at his position but is the only player to not sub this year. Many other situations but mostly the fact that the coaches are starting to get on to other players for often times the actions of their sons. Team morale is starting to go down and for the first time ever, I heard my son say that he didn't have a good time playing (it was a practice but generally anything to do with BB is great to him). Anyhow, I know we should pretty much butt out but it is difficult to watch and things are getting worse and not better. This fall things were good and all was positive, but this year, something's changed and coaches are having difficulty doing what's best for the team and not best for their sons. Sorry for the rant but I know you will understand.

I used to co-coach a travel team (6 years) and we saw this problem a lot. I definitely agree with DadOfPlayer and respectfully disagree with TRHit. (Wondering if TR's experience is above the youth travel level, where these problems are generally not present.)

As with the case of the overbearing or screaming coach, it is absolutely your responsibility as parent to remove your child from a team that is not led by an adult who is setting a good example of what an adult leader should be. This is not "quitting". A lot is asked of the kids and the families on these teams and the "loyalty to the team" thing has got to work both ways or it doesn't work at all.

At ages 12-13, there are probably 3 travel players for every 1 high school varsity slot those kids will compete for in 4-5 years -- at least in our area. The better players start to leave their local teams and gravitate to more elite teams where they all play together. The teams left behind struggle to survive and eventually, they don't. One of the big signs that you're on the wrong kind of team is when you have a coach who makes it the mission of the team to serve his one son. This guy is not really going to help your son make the cut down the road, and he is (irrespective of what any one family does) going to run off other families to the point that you are destined not to be one of the better teams out there. One day you won't have enough kids to field a team and that will be the end of that.

Being a player in this situation is kind of like being an employee. If you become a "team hopper" (like a "job hopper"), you'll get a reputation for being someone who just is never satisfied. But leaving a team once, or just once every few years, to find a better situation is common and will not hurt your son. In fact, most of the other teams out there probably know all too well what's going on on your team, if only from playing against you over the years. If you handle this with class, people will respect what you're doing.

You probably also know who the class acts are among coaches, from watching those other teams you've played over the years. Call those teams first, and you'll avoid having to jump teams more than once.

BTW, one way we used to try to avoid this problem was by keeping our team roster at 11 players. Lots of playing time for everybody! A coach with a son on the team can probably never completely escape negative thoughts from other team parents, but if you're genuinely fair, you can keep the carping in the stands to a minimum.

midlo

MY experience is varied--- I have run youth leagues for towns ( Baseball, Basketball and S O C C E R)--I have coached teams from 8 yrs of age to pre college-- I thought I had seen it all but every day the scenario changes and it gets scary---but kids are flexible and can adapt-- at least in my thinking--they wont be scarred for life by a coach screaming at them--trust me

I've seen kids walking on eggshells, so afraid of making a mistake because the coach is going to scream if they screw up. Kids play better and are more aggressive when they're relaxed and loose, the coach needs to be able to make the kids believe that they can make the great play, the great hit, the good pitch. It's not going to happen if the kid is a nervous wreck and terrified of the coach. If this happens to my son I won't think twice about taking him out of that situation, he loves baseball and I won't make him suffer through a whole season just so he can say he's not a quitter. I have a 22 yr old and a 12 yr old and haven't had to do this yet but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't if I saw the need. I think there are situations where you need to do what's best for your kid, and that might be going to another team. I believe some parents jump too quickly while others might be too stubborn and the kid might finish the year but never play again, but atleast he wasn't a quitter...
I've heard so many kids say that they're not playing anymore because the coach is a jerk, and sometimes knowing the coach I know that it's simply not true, and sometimes it is. We need to be honest about our kids abilities and coaches need to treat kids with respect if they want the kids respect. The kids know if a coach is blowing smoke up you know where and we as coaches need to remember that we can have a lasting impact on a young persons life, positive or negative. Coaches are human and they're going to make mistakes, parents make mistakes. We all need to be a little more forgiving, a little more patient, and a lot more loving.

Good Post IB. I've seen it happen with a few very talented baseball players, and we just went through the very situation you talked about with my son and basketball. While son's true passion is baseball, he also enjoyed basketball. Granted he's only a middle of the pack basketball player, but he's very quick and went into this past season with a ton of enthusiasm. You'd think a coach that knew what he was doing could take a kid like that and help him be a better player. Well, in my son's case, after sitting through a dozen or so of the coach's screaming sessions and precious little actual instruction all of the enthusiasm turned into fear of making a mistake that would cause more yelling. So much for any desire to ever play organized basketball again. On the positive side my son told me his eyes were opened to how much he enjoys baseball, and wants to spend the time next year when he'd otherwisw be playing basketball working out getting ready for baseball season.

As for BBfam's original question, in my opinion it wouldn't do much good to talk to the coach about the situation as he probably won't see a problem. Take a little time to think about the situation, talk to other parents to see if they have the same perceptions (sometimes we all tend to get a bit defensive when our own child is involved, but on the other hand there are plenty of coaches out there who are guilty of the daddy-ball syndrome), and if you decide a change is in order I'd spend time interviewing the coaches of prospective teams for next season.

Thanks all for the input. We will continue to see the season through. Like I said, my son is making it near impossible to be kept out of the line-up so his playing time is good. He does seem to take some heat just for being him (better than the coaches sons). He's tough skinned and let's it roll off usually. He is feeling bad for some of the other kids. Last week, coach called time after a pitch out that the C didn't throw down and yelled at the pitcher (in huddle) that he needs to throw harder and that he threw better when he was nine??? What's up with that? Again,thanks for input. Hoping there was a magic solution but I guess you just chalk this up to a learning experience.

Great post. This is such a tricky situation, because we are all taught to not be "quitters", but I totally agree with what Midlo Dad said about team loyalty going both ways. If a dad/coach is more interested in what is best for his son instead of the team, he gets nor deserves any loyalty from me.

My boy switched teams in the middle of last year. He had played every inning, so it wasn't a lack of playing time, but he was very uncomfortable with the fact that several groups of parents were feuding to the point that there was at least one liquor fueled altercation. The coaches had also cancelled 2 of every 3 practices. So obviously I lost Zero sleep when Tanner decided that he wanted to play for a team that better fit his personality and goals. I guess some people would disagree with our decision, but I would humbly have to ask why?

Whatever happened to loyalty?

I have seen kids leave teams with the quickness as soon as a team hits a bump in the road. I have seen kids leave when times are rough , leave their current team, join another team, only to return to the same team because he made the " wrong decision". Perfect example is this past weekend. We played in a Tourney and lost our first game, mind you our team had three returning players who previously left last year only to return this year. Guess what these three players had to face their former teams to get to the championship. Call it ironic if you will but we made it to the championship and took 2nd place. This was a huge accomplishment for this team and it gave me a sense of satisfaction because the kids that stayed and fought hard through the good and bad times faced adversity and didn't panic or leave. As for the the other three kids who left and came back, let's just say they are happy to be back with this team.

My son wanted to leave last year because when the three players left the team was losing many games and many kids were placed in different roles. He stuck with it and the sense of satisfaction was written all over his face. I am glad to say that my 13 year old has been dedicated and faithful to one travel club who gave him an opportunity to play. The dividends have been huge and he now is playing AAU Frosh HighSchool Baseball as an eight grader.

Be careful in your decision and usually the talented players who work hard in practice and in games rise to the top. My son has faced daddyball, politics, and booster clubs all in the face and rose to the top. Work hard, hustle, and things will work out. Trust me.......it will.

bum,
sticking thru competitive adversity & sticking thru emotional abuse are quite different animals

there will come a time when a player has NO choice who his coach is, and .. tho there are MANY great Dad coaches in youth leagues, there are psycho guys whom it would be wise to avoid .. but, the way youth teams are put together, the psychos may not be obvious in pre-season meetings or fundraisers

Hey Chairman,

Yes you are right. I personally haven't faced this situation but I know plenty who have. Those pyscho coaches usually have a kid on the team and he plays no matter what. I totally agree with you and if I was placed in that situation I'd probably move as well.

Daddy Ball is Daddy Ball no matter where you go.

In most Little Leagues, the coaches are volunteer fathers who coach so that their kid not only plays, but makes the All Star team from that park.

The coach's kid usually plays shortstop, pitches and bats either first or clean up.

If you see that there is Daddy Ball happening, get away from that coach at the first opportunity. They have no care for winning, only making sure their child is playing all the time and if you let them tell it, leading the team in every category.

Leaving for a better program is not quitting. It is choosing to play where the competition is fair.

Seen it way too many times where a kid shows up the coach's kid and is benched.

Kid's do not want to wear a uniform to watch a ball game when they could be playing.

Usually when a team complains about Loyalty or quitters, that team usually chases the kids away.

Most often once the kids join another team, they come back to beat the team they left.

quote:

but he was very uncomfortable with the fact that several groups of parents were feuding to the point that there was at least one liquor fueled altercation

Did not have to worry about that as a kid as we played all day on a sandlot field. Made our own rules said who was out and safe but so unorganized. No uniforms no umpires. Idea lets have parents organize us and we will have all that. Great?

I admit it. I'm a "Daddyball" coach. My son plays 1st base and pitches. He bats 3rd in the line-up and plays most, if not all, of each game.

I'm currently evaluating this season's "watch list" that each coach submitted to the league of the players they felt were worthy of consideration for All Stars. What is interesting is that every other head coach has their son on the watch list. And you know what? Every one of those son's deserves to be there.

I think that if parents were honest they would realize that it's usually the dad's with the best players that coach, not the other way around. JMO.

R.

I think everyone should make the All Stars, It's about having fun and making people happy!! Hey if you have a kid going O-fer all season so what. Make him an All Star, expecially the Coaches kid.

Callaway--I agree with you. I am not opposed to a coach's kid getting to start or batting clean up or wherever---as long as he earns it. In this instance there are 4 (yes 4) of 11 players belonging to a coach. One, has earned his spot. The others, well, some don't even belong there (see initial post) and the others are not having to even try to win his spot. This is a problem as not only is it costing games, but more importantly bringing morale down as the others know that it doesn't matter how hard you try, extra hours, good attitude, etc...you will still be subbing and "Johnny" will do whatever he wants. Heck, he was batting clean up for quite a while with a .092 batting average. I don't have a problem with players sitting, even my own. But, when you start subbing your better ball players I think the pine time should be shared, including coach's kids, especially if they are underperforming enough for other teams to comment on it. At 12, move em around, let them play many positions, get lots of at bats, and have fun.

Callaway, you obviously have an exceptional group of coaches kids in your area. Where I'm from a little over half should be on that list, quite a few kids play out of position and hit in the coveted spots only because dad is the coach. They get to pitch over better players because dad is willing to coach the team. Most coaches put in a lot of time with practices, lineups, complaining parents, etc.., I don't know if this is really right or wrong when they favor their kids a little. I feel like maybe I'm being selfish because I choose to assist (if I'm pushed) instead of manage because it gives me more time to work with my own kid. I don't want to have to deal with parents who don't want to coach but want their boy to play short and pitch every game even if you have 3 guys who are better suited for those positions. So often it's hard for us as parents (and coaches) to be completely honest about our sons abilities.
I feel like the most important thing at this age is to help your kids enjoy the game and continue to develop the skills they need to play where they're best suited.

This is my first year coaching.

I have 0 parent support. I have 0 parents attend practices. I am a 2 hour baby-sitter. I don't even have an assistant coach. I have the occasional Dad who can be dragged over to coach at 1st base. But all he does is stand with his hands in his pockets the entire time.

I spent the same $150 that everyone else did to enroll their son. I spent another $150 on baseballs and other equipment that the league only supplied meager quantities of.

None of my parents even attempted to garner sponsorship for the team, so I sponsored the team myself (another $300). and no, I do not make much money, I am an enlisted Navy sailor.

My kid will play whatever position he wants, and he will bat in any spot in the line-up he wants.

Fortunately, his stats back him up, as he is batting over .600, and has an opponents BA of less then .150 when pitching.

I might coach next year, but I will draft parents, not players.

Irish:

You sound like one of the good guys. Keep up the great work.

quote:

Originally posted by IrishDad:
This is my first year coaching.

I have 0 parent support. I have 0 parents attend practices. I am a 2 hour baby-sitter. I don't even have an assistant coach. I have the occasional Dad who can be dragged over to coach at 1st base. But all he does is stand with his hands in his pockets the entire time.

I spent the same $150 that everyone else did to enroll their son. I spent another $150 on baseballs and other equipment that the league only supplied meager quantities of.

None of my parents even attempted to garner sponsorship for the team, so I sponsored the team myself (another $300). and no, I do not make much money, I am an enlisted Navy sailor.

My kid will play whatever position he wants, and he will bat in any spot in the line-up he wants.

Fortunately, his stats back him up, as he is batting over .600, and has an opponents BA of less then .150 when pitching.

I might coach next year, but I will draft parents, not players.

Wow, I am so sorry to read this post. As a single mom whose kids grew up playing rec ball I can only say that for the kids sake I hope you get out of coaching. It does not take much to put some money into a team but to state that because of that your son will bat "any position he wants", will "play any position he wants" is nuts. You do not seem to be in this for the kids; you seem to be "the coach" many of us have dealt with and wish would simply go away. You seem to want way to much in return for your really meager financial investments and the reason you would give money to begin with seems simply a justification for your being somehow in control and justifying not playing players as kids but as bought and paid for kids. In rec league I have seen just one Dad like you; though have seen several mostly concerned for their kids. Being mostly concerned for your kids is natural; thinking you can buy your kid his spot; justify your kids spot; just thinking how you think is wrong! It is no wonder you have 0% parental support; you are weird, to say the least. In rec it is hard to get your child switched to another team, but, I assure you, you will not coach again. Noone should be as negative and feel so entitled as you and still be allowed to coach youth sports.

You seem to have missed my point, and that is no parents have a right to complain about how a team is run if they do not contribute in any way, shape or form. I do not feel the need to justify any of my decisions to parents who use me as a babysitter.

The players are fantastic. They hustle, they listen, they play where I tell them, and they are excellent sportsmen. I remind them of that on a weekly basis, and how proud I am of them.

I did not initially volunteer to manage a team. I simply let the league know that I was willing to be an assistant to someone. The league call before the season started and asked me to be a manager, as they did not have enough. If somebody did not volunteer, 14 kids would not play spring ball.

I am not trying to make excuses, or apologize for the way I run my team. Nor am I looking for pity.

My point is simply this: if you do not volunteer to help (coach, shag balls, team mom, prep the fields before the game (yes, I do this too while the boys warm themselves up in the outfield when we are home team)), then you have forfeited your right to complain about your son playing right field and batting last.

I was gonna put a little snippet in here about you, but I changed my mind, as I don't know you personally, nor am I able to make a judgement about you from reading one paragraph, and that would just not be civil.

Well said Irish.

Even without the outlay, there is a certain expectation that parents would involve themselves in their child's activities.

It isn't a baby sitting service.

When parents are involved in the team and Daddy ball is the order of the day, that coach is in it only for his child.

In a few parks, the All Star team and coaches are chosen by a vote of the players. Better teams and better coaches it seems.

quote:

I might coach next year, but I will draft parents, not players.

quote:

I might coach next year, but I will draft parents, not players.

*************************

A friend I used to coach Little League with had thoughts on this: "In every draft, there are about 10% of the players that everybody wants and about 20% that nobody really wants. In between, you're just drafting parents."

Irish,

Thanks for being part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. Isn't it funny how many parents have very high expectations of coaches but are unwilling to give even the slightest assistance ? Great example; T-Ball practice a few years back. Parents set up lawn chairs to watch, 3/4 of the way thru BP after about 200 pitches a foul rolls to a parent in a chair. Think they may reach down and toss it back ? Naa, just kick it away so I get to bend 201 times. If looks could kill I'd be a mass murderer...

quote:

Isn't it funny how many parents have very high expectations of coaches but are unwilling to give even the slightest assistance ?

Looking at it from another perspective, have the parents been ASKED to lend a hand, or even made aware of the fact that they're welcome to help at practices etc. Especially at the T-Ball age I don't think the parents have any idea what to expect, much less realize that they can actually get out there and help. I've found that if parents are asked to come out and catch throws from the outfield, shag fly balls, help line fields, or whatever, that at least two or three are more than willing. But if you don't ask they'll go on in blissful ignorance, thinking you've got everything under control and that their place is outside the fence.

Good point Style,

Our league registration requests parental involvement and I always ask for any help at the first team meeting/practice. I've got to hear some classic excuses over the years as well...

I used to get as many parents as were there to help with drills. BUT THEN, the county imposed a rule that anyone using county fields or facilities had to pre-screen all volunteers and the volunteers had to pass a criminal records background test before they could work with any kids. Result: Only the manager and assistants (of which we weren't allowed more than 2), all of whom had to have pre-clearance, could work with the kids. And if one or more of them couldn't be there that day, you were just going to have to make do.

Now all those who don't want to help have a ready excuse. And heaven help you if they report you for asking them to work practice without a volunteer clearance card.

I have one better than Daddy Ball. How about the player who gets chosen to be in the Allstar team just because Daddy made a sponsorship donation the day before the team was picked.

Now that left a really awesome player out and left the team with a catcher who can't catch a fast ball. Now don't you think that, that donation should have been used towards catching lessons.


What did Daddy teach his son. You don't have to be a good player to make the Allstar, just have enough money to buy a spot. There are 3 coaches and 3 son's, only one thinks his son is top notch, the other 2 just want to be a part of a good team. Now can you guess which one picked the player? But Money talks and a good player walks, just because no one had the guts to say no thank you.

As with most things in life, there are those who actually do what needs to be done and then there is everyone else. My husband coached for 5 years in the local youth baseball team. Our son was one of the two best players on the team. Hubby kept meticulous records to insure that every kid had the same number of innings played as well as time spent on the bench. At the end of the season everyone was equal. Talent levels ran the gamut from really good to not knowing which end of the bat to hold. But it was fun and the kids always came back for more. Speaking of those who go overboard - One year, our team had won the "National League", the championship against the AL winner, and the end of season tournament. My kid was the #1 pitcher. He made the All-Star team and the guy who coached that team sat my son on the bench and put his kid on the mound - game after game. The poor kid couldn't pitch his way out of a wet paper bag. The All Star team went winless. 8 years later we are on the same HS team - I have finally forgiven him. It just took a while.

quote:

Originally posted by Callaway:
I admit it. I'm a "Daddyball" coach. My son plays 1st base and pitches. He bats 3rd in the line-up and plays most, if not all, of each game.

I'm currently evaluating this season's "watch list" that each coach submitted to the league of the players they felt were worthy of consideration for All Stars. What is interesting is that every other head coach has their son on the watch list. And you know what? Every one of those son's deserves to be there.

I think that if parents were honest they would realize that it's usually the dad's with the best players that coach, not the other way around. JMO.

R.

Calloway. The more that I think about this the more I see that you are correct. 90% of daddyball coaches that I have met havea son that deserved to be an all-star.

This does bring up an interesting point though. Can coaches ever "win". For every daddyball coach that is unfair, there is one that tries to be as fair as possible. I know a coach right now that has coached for 18 years, but he decided to quit after this season because of overzealous parents. He had a game last week, up 10-1, took out his best players, put in some of the boys that don't get as much playing time. They found a way to lose the game, and the coach was verbally abused by several parents for taking out his best players. (One of them even "physically" approached him) I think it truly frustrated him, becase he was ****ed if he did, and ****ed if he didn't

quote:

Originally posted by Johnnie_LeMaster:
I think everyone should make the All Stars, It's about having fun and making people happy!! Hey if you have a kid going O-fer all season so what. Make him an All Star, expecially the Coaches kid.

I think you underestimate kids' intelligence when you do this. The players know who the "all-stars" are. I think all-stars is something that should be earned, no matter the situation. Everyone in the world is an expert at something, everyone has a gift, but for some of them it may be sports, and they should be recognized for that.

Does everyone in school automatically get straight A's?

Just an update--apparently I wasn't the only parent with concerns. I didn't say a word but some did and we had to have a meeting to hash out some problems. Problem is some parents have the LL mentality--who cares if we win and everyone plays the same #of innings and some want competition and want to win so the stronger players play more. We may be having a split come august which is too bad but I think it will be best. Some coaches are so upset about what was said (coach mentioned before) that he tried to blame a game costly error on my son which is ironic since he wasn't even involved in the play. An overthrow to home on a single to the left fielder is hardly an error on the 1st baseman. I guess changes will be good for some but what a shame to put the entire team's feelings and chances behind letting your child play whatever position he wants when it hasn't been earned. For what it's worth-we used to coach and I understand about having a child on the team but sometimes (always) you have to look at the whole picture and do what's best for the team even if it means putting your child in a different position or even on the bench if necessary.

quote:

The ideal situation would be a team that has a coach or two with no sons on the team.

At the youth level it is not very common. Our league had one head coach that didn't have a son on the team. He has been coaching in this league for almost 20 years and is a very good coach. He did however begin coaching when his son's played.

Callaway,
I respectfully have to disagree with you about the politics. Yes, many of the coaches have kids who play very well and get to show their talent BUT sometimes - rare as it might be - a very talented kid walks on a team and is benched so as not to outshine the coaches sons.What else could it be if the benched boy is a strong player, has a good attitude and shows up on time? Rose colored glasses . . . no, just fact . . . there is a 13 yr. old middle school boy on my sons team with tremendous talent. He is benched 80% of the time. Will he make All-Stars? I doubt it because who has seen him play! Well, the high school coach has seen him play as he has arranged special practices with him so that he'll be ready for high school in another year. A well known MLB player has seen him play at these practices with the high school coach and from what I understand has recommended him for a special off-season camp. The boys parents are not coaches but they help out with the team at every game and volunteer in the snack shed. What a shame that the five dad coaches haven't made use of his talent. And, you should see this boys face sitting on the bench game after game dying to get in and play with everyone else - it breaks your heart. Once he asked the coach if he could play and was repremanded. Switching to another team is not an option for many kids. In some small towns, like ours, there is only one league to play in. Sorry, I had to vent a little. I hope all of the dad coaches out there will take a minute to do a little soul searching and realize that they are not only putting their kids at a disadvantage when they don't recognize talent outside their nest which might help their children become even better players ( "to get better you have to play with others that are better than you") BUT their actions have a serious impact on these kids sense of self worth. At 12, 13, 14, 15 yrs. old the kids don't understand adult ego and politics and instead see the lack of playing time as a reflection on themselves and their ability. The parents of this kid I mentioned told me that they and he were truely SHOCKED when their son was told by objective outside sources that he had unusual talent for his age and a future in baseball if he stuck it out.This particular child was ready to pack it in after this season and focus on his others sports - football, basketball and track, I think. What a shame. You have to wonder how many other boys have left the sport who found themselves in the same situation. I can't wait to see this young man play high school ball which, undoubtedly, he will aspire to.

In regards to Callaways post. Sure, I am a couple years late to post but it is a timeless issue. I coached my sons team for 3 years. I was aware of "Daddy Ball" and made sure he played no more or less than others. But the truth of the matter is parents can not see the weakness of thier own childrens play no matter how hard they try, and coaches stroke other coaches to justify why each of thier sons should play in the all-stars or just play more innings or get more at bats etc. that way they can feel good about it, human nature at it's finest.