All Hype-Where is the performance?

How is Cole not getting the job done? I beleive that he has more upside than Bauer, where they are drafted will mean more in their bonus demands and what a team prefers more than the differences in their stats.

If my team, the Indians, take Gerrit Cole, I am not upset.

If I were doing the drafting however, I take Bauer. I believe he is the better player even if Cole potentially has more upside.

.
Big picture...

Stats are a objective measurement(generally)...

The draft is a subjective measurement...

It's all in the eyes of the beholder/bonus payer/pundit...

44
.

At 100mph, he should remain the #1 choice for the first pick Pirates, unless they cannot afford him.

One more thing, Will Bauer's differences translate into ML success, the college game is much different than the pro game.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
How is Cole not getting the job done? I beleive that he has more upside than Bauer, where they are drafted will mean more in their bonus demands and what a team prefers more than the differences in their stats.

How is not getting the job done? He has a 6-8 record and lost to the #4 seed last night. Ever since he blew off the Yankess 3 years ago as their #1 pick we have heard about his upside. When does upside and hype translate to wins? Bauer's numbers crush his. Double the win's, 1/3 of his era, 50% more k's. Plus Bauer is younger as he graduating from high school a year early.

I am with my fellow Buckeye on this and easily would take Bauer for the Tribe as well over Cole.

**** Moderator note: HSBBW policy is not to post amateur players names if the thread could be harmful to them. ****

quote:

Originally posted by Mark B:
Why wouldn't Bauer be a slam dunk to get chosen before Cole?

The scouts probably see a higher ceiling in Cole.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark B:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
How is Cole not getting the job done? I beleive that he has more upside than Bauer, where they are drafted will mean more in their bonus demands and what a team prefers more than the differences in their stats.

How is not getting the job done? He has a 6-8 record and lost to the #4 seed last night. Ever since he blew off the Yankess 3 years ago as their #1 pick we have heard about his upside. When does upside and hype translate to wins? Bauer's numbers crush his. Double the win's, 1/3 of his era, 50% more k's. Plus Bauer is younger as he graduating from high school a year early.

I am with my fellow Buckeye on this and easily would take Bauer for the Tribe as well over Cole.

Because his team didn't hit yesterday, he lacks performance?

With the number of hits he has vs Bauer only indicates he pitches differently. I haven't seen either pitch but I am going to go out on a limb that one relies more on his FB and the other with off speed, etc. That makes them different. Does Cole induce more ground balls that turn into runs rather than more strike outs?

He also went from a 30 something pick to most likely #1 and needed a lot of maturing.

Again, wins/losses as a college pitcher is not an indicator that someone is better than another.

I agree that college stats don't necessarily translate to pro performance. That said, I've seen them both pitch about three times each which is obviously a small sample size. I like Bauer because he seems to get more movement on his pitches. His fastball does not seem quite as flat as Cole. I think Bauer is a better pitcher.

PG - what's your take?

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I agree that college stats don't necessarily translate to pro performance. That said, I've seen them both pitch about three times each which is obviously a small sample size. I like Bauer because he seems to get more movement on his pitches. His fastball does not seem quite as flat as Cole. I think Bauer is a better pitcher.

PG - what's your take?

Things like movement can be worked on. Bauer may be a bit tougher mentally, which is a plus.

I would be interested in PG's take too!

"Getting the job done." Interesting topic to me. Fans and parents definitions and use of that phrase to "project" are often very different than reality.

My younger son just finished his HS career. 24-4 lifetime record in HS in one of the best HS leagues on the West Coast. All kinds of championships including #1 ranking in several national polls last year. ERA this year of 1.06 w/ 106 Ks and only 17 walks. Three pitches for strikes. An opposing area HS coach was quoted in the paper last week as saying, "he's one of the best pitchers I've ever seen."

He freakin' "gets the job done!"

Most of the area scouts know him...seem to even like him and think he'll do well in college. But he won't be drafted. Barely 6 ft., RHP in the high 80's...maybe touched 90 a few times. At this time, he 'gets the job done,' but doesn't 'project' to an MLB level. He might in 3 or 4 years, but not now.

My older son is in double-A ball. Over the past two years he has won more minor league games than any other pitcher. 30-9 over those two years. Led his organization both years in wins, 2nd last year in strikeouts.

He too, freakin' "gets the job done!"

He gets promoted about a level a year (low-A to high-A to double-A). He's not on any fast track to the big leagues. 88-91 (more 88 than 91) with 3 pitches for strikes including a nasty change. He 'gets the job done,' but there remains doubt about what his role would be at the big league level (5th starter or long reliever?) and whether or not 88-91 can even survive there?

I believe these two sons can 'get the job done' at their next steps, but I also 'get it' as to why the scouts/experts are more cautious. Yes, they really "get the job done" as well or better than any of their peers, but they will have to prove it at each next step.

The thin line between Cole and Bauer is really, REALLY thin. And scouting is never quite right...sometimes even bad (13th round pick for older son indicates that most didn't think he would even made it to double-A). But scouting is still better, on average, than us fans and so I have no issue with scouts not focusing on "getting it done" but instead on how these two project (body type, velocity, maturity (an issue for both of these), projectability of their arsenal of pitches, etc...).

BTW, Bauer wouldn't have won last night's game either. Might have tied it, 0-0, but he wouldn't have won it.

Time will tell who was right and wrong on these two. But its really not about wins and losses and ERA at this particular time. In fact, that might not even matter a whole lot for either of them until the voting for the Cy Young when they're BOTH in the big leagues.

justbb - fabulous post. You are the GM. Who do you take - Bauer or Cole?

I like Bauer better...but I'm just a fan!

Great post JBB!

I just don't think that criticism is fair of any non professional player that has had tons of pressure placed upon him and not performing to anyone's (in this case the OP) expectations.

I happen to like Bauer too, I think he's tougher (mentally) that's needed at the next level, but not necessarily better "stuff".

JMO.

There both studs. Just because Bauer is on the same staff and has better numbers should not diminish the ability of Cole. Who is better? Right now the numbers suggest Bauer. Who will be the better pro? That has yet to be decided and I do not think the numbers in college are a slam dunk indicator at all.

I don't get to see them very often on TV. Only a couple of times for both. But you can bet if they are pitching I make sure I watch them. Electric stuff that is simply fun to watch.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I agree that college stats don't necessarily translate to pro performance. That said, I've seen them both pitch about three times each which is obviously a small sample size. I like Bauer because he seems to get more movement on his pitches. His fastball does not seem quite as flat as Cole. I think Bauer is a better pitcher.

PG - what's your take?


Things like movement can be worked on. Bauer may be a bit tougher mentally, which is a plus.

I would be interested in PG's take too!

OK, here are my opinions, FWIW

If I had a game tomorrow I would pick Bauer right now. However, earlier in the year Cole was considered the number one pitching prospecxt for this year's draft and for very good reason.

I actually haven't seen much of Gerritt this year, but before this year he had the best "stuff" I've ever seen in an amateur pitcher. His fastball had exceptional life and was far from straight. His breaking ball was devestating and I still think his changeup might end up being his best pitch at the ML level. Three ++ pitches and upper 90s velocity with life. I actually thought Cole was the top pitcher in the draft coming out of high school. I'm sure he would have went much earlier in the first round had he been more signable. In fact, he turned down millions from the Yankees to attend UCLA.

Command will dictate his future. Like many power pitchers, hitters tend to take more pitches. This causes problems in two ways. Lots of hitters counts (too many 2-0, 3-1 counts) and it drives up the pitch counts. Great stuff out of the zone is worthless unless the hitter swings. That most often happens when the pitcher is ahead in the count.

I'm surprised by his season this year. I'm sure it has been a concern to some scouting departments. Maybe it's a case of "draftitis" and once the draft is over we will see the domination we expect.

Anyway, both pitchers (Cole and Bauer)are likely top 5-10 picks IMO. Bauer is outstanding, no question about it. However, if it were my money being spent, I'd pick Gerritt Cole provided he is healthy. I invision him as a dominating #1 in the rotation guy. Some might see Bauer in the same light. That curve ball is a doozy.

In the end, you have to try to guess how well their ability translates to the Major Leagues. In that regard I would take Cole over any other pitcher in this draft. Then probably Danny Hultzen or Dylan Bundy. After that, based on ability alone, it would be Bauer near the top of a group of several. Archie Bradley, Jose Fernandez, Sonny Gray, Taylor Jungmann, Daniel Norris,Alex Meyer,Jed Bradley, Taylor Guerrieri, Robert Stephenson, Dillon Howard, and there are others, not in any specific order.

This is a great draft year for pitchers. Guys who would normally be easy first round picks are likely to be dissapointed.

Also I would pick Matt Purke in a heartbeat right near the top if I had a complete medical on him. If healthy he is as good as anyone.

Mentioning these names, I'm sure I've missed someone. And never take anything I might say as the Gospel.

.

"And never take anything I might say as the Gospel."

I hear ya' Brother Jerry!



Now how 'bout asking the big guy upstairs for some help with this pitchin' mound?




.

I hate to chime in after PG...I can't compete with him, however, here is my two cents. We all know that Cole and Bauer have generally been 1A and 1B on the mound for the Bruins the past couple of years. You have to remember that Cole has been the Friday Night starter, and therefore, has been facing the opponents Friday starter as well. Yes, he lost to the #4 seeded USF Dons (West Coast Conference Champs) 3-0 last night. Gerrit Cole battled for 7.1 innings striking out 11 batters, while scattering eleven hits. Not the best line score for a potential number one guy...but let's not forget, Cole isn't receiving any offensive support from his team. The Dons #1 pitcher (Zimmer) dominated the Bruins lineup. The UCLA opponents Friday starter(s) have been shutting their offense down all year long, and that's the biggest reason for Cole's Sub .500 record on the bump.

I like Bauer, he may end up being another Lincecum in a couple years? But it's tough to argue with a 6'4" Power arm that has touched triple digits a few times this year! They are both amazing pitchers, but I'm rooting for another team to come out of the Los Angeles Regional this weekend...Rip Em Eaters!!!

It's almost like saying who do you like better - John Smoltz or Greg Maddux. Both hall of famers but different styles. I doubt anyone would ever say that Greg Maddux has the type of fastball that Gerrit Cole does but that in no way reduced his effectiveness. Sometimes the scouts get caught up in the eye-popping tools and lose sight of who the better player is. Sometimes the better player is the luckier one - the one more likely to stay healthy. Tim Lincecum (in hindsight) should have been the first player taken in his draft class but he wasn't. There's more to it than merely figuring out who has the best tools.

Many times in a choice between two studs like this, it just comes down to flat out LUCK in who makes the right choice. I've never attempted to do it, but if a person went down every year of the draft's existance, I would be surprised if the number one draft choice became the top player of that crop career wise even twenty percent of the time.

bsbl247,
I think that you brought up some really great points, good job!

Thanks TPM. You know it's easier to pitch with a lead, as the pitcher can be much more aggressive in the zone. I'm pretty sure that the Bruin offense didn't give Cole too many opportunities to be aggressive this season, as their offense sputtered...especially on Friday nights.

Hey, what do you think about the job AC is doing for the Cards right now? His versatility is paying off and he's taking advantage of some of the injuries, and doing a great job! I find myself watching a few more Cardinals games than usual. It's fun to watch local kids do well.

Craig is doing really, really well, as are most of the young guys they have called up. Most of them (position guys)are pretty versatile players and play multiple positions.
The other night everyone in the lineup except Theriot was homegrown. That's amazing.

I understand what you are saying about pitching with a lead, I appreciate that, for most pitchers it sure makes them more relaxed as well. Anyone who really understands would notice that friday nights have not been great ones for UCLA hitters.

I do remember when Cole first came onto the scene, and PG stating he was one of the better pitchers he has seen in a long time. And I do think that although many scouts are convincing their organizations to think outside of the box, it is what is is and 3 digit velo with 3 plus pitches is what it is.
Regardless, should be an interesting draft to watch!

Cole is good.he has the body and the big time fast ball the scouts like.He has huge PROJECTION as they say.Trevor has more mental maturity than Cole.Cole can get rattled. UCLA offense has faltered many times this year, and hasnt always provided runs to support the pitching staff.In the reg season Cole only beat that USF pitcher I believe 1-0.

As someone else mentioned Cole is up against all the Friday night starters and they are all good.Every starting Friday night guy in the PAC 10 is probably getting drafted in the top five rounds.

Cole's hits allowed surprises me considering the combination of velocity and movement. I like Bauer better but I'm a little more concerned how well his stuff is going to translate to pro ball. He works up in the zone a lot intentionally and that may not be as effective in pro ball.

I'd say Bauer is more likely to be a successful starter and Cole could be either a successful starter or a closer with his stuff.

I saw Bauer throw today and he really has a great curve to go along with everything else.

The Friday night analysis doesn't make much sense to me. That might affect wins and losses but it doesn't have that big of an effect on ERA imho. UCLA doesn't score a whole lot of runs to begin with. So the fact Cole may of had a few less runs to work with doesn't make a whole lot of difference in this case. They both faced essentially the same hitters with essentially the same run support and one guy did better than the other in those circumstances.

Bauer throws his 9th consecutive complete game and sets all-time Pac 10 single season record for k's on Saturday night now with 203 on the year, remarkable.

Friday night starter is harder, their first time seeing the hitters while the saturday night and sunday guys get to watch. The first game of a series is always harder for the first starters (all positions).
Friday usually goes to the ace. If Bauer is considered the better pitcher, why was he NOT in that friday night start? At anytime, if the coach felt that Cole couldn't handle it, he could have switched them up.
Does a few less runs to work with make pitchers more comfortable, yes and those that don't have pitchers may never understand that concept. It just may be that the coach did place Cole in that position because he needed to get a little tougher. It's obvious Bauer has a bulldog mentality.

This is an interesting CONTRAST between pitchers. Kind of reminds me of a pitcher who was the friday night bulldog ace for 3 years for his college team with a stellar record, yet unable to get drafted (finally did in a later round) and released a year later. The OTHER pitcher, not as successful but with an unbeleviable arm in the mid 90's now is pitching in MLB.

My example shows that once you get past the college game, things change, for most pitchers. I could give you a bunch of guys who were drafted high out of college my sons year and not even in the game, made it up for a few innings and never returned to the ML field.
Because there is a difference in ERA doesn't mean, that one guy will be more successful at the next level than the other. Doesn't even mean who will make it to the show first as all teams are different in promoting players. Regardless, making comparisons because of w/l or ERA is really irrevalant at this point.
Both will be chosen very early in the draft, it doesn't matter which team as long as it is the right team for each of them, and having 2 first rounders out of the same staff is amazing.

TPM - you've got to watch the condescending stuff, our sons do not have to be pitchers for us to understand how pitching works.

Just because Savage pitches Cole on Friday does not mean he is the better player. PG and other distinguished people think he is but there are other scouting professionals who think Bauer is better. More important to me is that when I watch them both play, I think Bauer is better regardless of who pitches on Friday or Saturday or what Baseball America has to say about it. Andrew Miller was your Friday guy and Daniel Bard was your Saturday guy at UNC. Which one is the better player?

Joe Paterno had two running backs at Penn State in the early seventies. One guy named Lydell Mitchell was all everything and definitely the apple of the coach's eye. The other guy was more of a grinder and yet was surprisingly drafted before Mitchell. The grinder went on to be a hall of famer in Pittsburgh and his name was Franco Harris.

If you think Cole is better because he has better tools, then great. I think Bauer is the better pitcher and that is more important than tools imho or any excuses we might make up to explain the differences between their numbers.

I've seen both of them pitch several time each of the past three years. Cole obviously has great tools and is very projectable. I think Bauer is ready for the Major Leagues today and has a chance to be better than Lincecum, as outrageous as that might sound. Cole will go higher, but if I had the pick, I would take Bauer in a heartbeat. I believe John Savage, the UCLA coach, would make the same choice (regardless of who pitches on Friday nights). Heck, Savage had Charles Brewer pitching on Sundays two years ago and he will be in the Big Leagues later this year with the Diamondbacks.

Barring injury, Bauer probably will win 200 Major League games or more. He throws hard, has three pitches and understands the art of pitching. Cole throws hard. When that fades even a little, questions arise.

How someone who has not actually seen these guys can make a judgement is beyond me.

All that said, I sort of feel sorry for the guy who goes first. He will be sentenced to Pittsburgh and that cannot be a good thing by any definition.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
TPM - you've got to watch the condescending stuff, our sons do not have to be pitchers for us to understand how pitching works.

Just because Savage pitches Cole on Friday does not mean he is the better player. PG and other distinguished people think he is but there are other scouting professionals who think Bauer is better. More important to me is that when I watch them both play, I think Bauer is better regardless of who pitches on Friday or Saturday or what Baseball America has to say about it. Andrew Miller was your Friday guy and Daniel Bard was your Saturday guy at UNC. Which one is the better player?

Joe Paterno had two running backs at Penn State in the early seventies. One guy named Lydell Mitchell was all everything and definitely the apple of the coach's eye. The other guy was more of a grinder and yet was surprisingly drafted before Mitchell. The grinder went on to be a hall of famer in Pittsburgh and his name was Franco Harris.

If you think Cole is better because he has better tools, then great. I think Bauer is the better pitcher and that is more important than tools imho or any excuses we might make up to explain the differences between their numbers.

Have I stated anywhere that Cole was a better pitcher than Bauer, or vice versa. What I commented was on tools. I was just wondering where Cole lacked performance (as stated by the OP). Because he didn't win every game? There are many reasons why the BEST pitchers don't always win games and it's not always because they put on a poor performance. I think that people tend to forget that a hitter can go 4 for 4 and have a great night, a pitcher can be dominate and still lose, errors, lack of run support. They will mention that he had a good game, but he still gets hit with the L. That's on him, not the stud in the lineup who is supposed to rake in HR? Does that make him not as good as the guy who has a better W-L record?

The title, "All Hype-Where is the performance" indicates to me that the OP doesn't understand that regardless of which position, stats have little to do with who may or may not be the better pitcher, at the next level. I don't know where I said one was better than the other, can you point that out? I did say that, as others, that he had better "stuff" for the next level.I did say that Bauer had better "mental" stuff.

You need to chill out.

FWIW, if you want to talk Miller/Bard, Miller was more dominate coming out of college, drafted for being a LHP hitting near 100, yet Bard, who was experiencing shoulder issues at the time (also hitting high 90's), has faired better.

Going back to my original point being better w/l or ERA doesn't always mean, once you get to the next level, success.

I WILL stand by the fact that runs do make a pitcher much more confidant, any pitcher.

If friday night isn't the best night for the better pitcher why does the ace usually pitch friday nights? Why does the best pitcher in spring training get the first start of the season?

My opinion, Cole, being the biggest first round condideration for pick one, got put where people wanted him to be placed, I have seen it before, the best pitcher is not always where he should be.

I would vote for Bauer as Pitcher of the Year. He's been unbelievable.

I still think Cole will go first and I would pick him first. It very well could be that Bauer will end up with a better career.

I base it on this... If both pitchers are at their very best, Gerritt Cole as as good as anyone who has ever lived. I have seen that and so have many others. I've also seen him not so good and have seen hitters hit him that shouldn't have a prayer.

To me it's all about who has the highest ceiling. It's not about what is happening now against college hitters. IMO, nobody has a higher ceiling than Gerritt Cole.

I can also see why some might pick Bauer first. He is amazing!

How often does the first pitcher selected become the best pitcher? Then again, how often does the best college pitcher become the best MLB pitcher? Who is to say that Bundy or Bradley or any of the other pitchers in this draft might end up being the best.

These kind of discussions are interesting with lots of good opinions. There are many things to consider when it comes to the draft. Money and other things often affect decisions.

Usually I wouldn't put much weight on this, but Cole was a first rounder out of high school. He should have been picked much higher, but everyone knew he was a tough sign. He went to college turning down millions. This automatically creates hype. People don't get this kind of hype for no reason. Along with that hype comes tremendous pressure. Everything comes a bit easier for those who aren't the top dog.

Truth is... Both are going to go early in all likelyhood. Maybe they both become two of the best pitchers in the Big leagues. Maybe neither one reaches that level.

History is the only thing that shows us the best decisions. Anything before that is just a guessing game by all.

To summerize, IMO... At this time, I actually think Bauer might be the safer bet. I could see him getting there early and doing well. I think Cole has the higher ceiling! Right or wrong... I always like the highest ceiling guys more because the safest bets don't always turn out that way. I think Cole has two chances. #1 starter or top closer.

Heck, maybe Bundy is the best! Someday we will find out who was the best pick. Maybe someone gets Purke to sign and he ends up being the best. Maybe it will be Gray, Jungmann, Fernandez, Norris, Bradley, Hultzen, Chafin, etc. Or maybe the best will be someone unexpected. Nobody knows for sure! Fun to talk about though.

PG - totally respect your opinion and it is what makes this site the greatest.

I can see where Cole has the most tools and "potentially" the biggest upside. I was never quite sure Matt Harvey dominated in college like the hype surrounding him said he ought to but he is unhittable right now in the pros. The very same thing may be true of Cole after he becomes a multimillionaire in a few weeks.

I get where guys get paid for tools and then we see out of that pool who the best players are. Sometimes we get blinded by tools and the right answer is right in front of us.

If someone believes that Bauer is the next Greg Maddux, then that is who they ought to take imho even if another player has better "tools." There is some subjectivity in that but that is what scouts and GM's get paid very well to figure out. The missing element in the tools equation is who is the better player imho and I realize that means who is going to be better five or ten years from now. One projects to be the better player but one actually is the better player and just to add a little icing on the cake, his tools ain't that bad either.

I love these discussions as well. Thanks for taking the time to share your valued opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
The Friday night analysis doesn't make much sense to me. That might affect wins and losses but it doesn't have that big of an effect on ERA imho. UCLA doesn't score a whole lot of runs to begin with. So the fact Cole may of had a few less runs to work with doesn't make a whole lot of difference in this case. They both faced essentially the same hitters with essentially the same run support and one guy did better than the other in those circumstances.

Well, since the Friday night analysis was mine, I'll attempt to respond. I like both kids; they have electric stuff, and they'll be pitching in the Show in the very near future. Who is the better pitcher on the 2011 Bruins staff? Hands down, Trevor Bauer. But we all know that the executives in the professional ranks are projecting who is going to help them in the next two, five, ten years? I still stand by my original "Friday" statement...especially as it pertains to weaker offenses. The Bruins offense doesn't put a ton of runs on the board, especially when facing the opponents Friday starter. I'm not going to spend the time to compare run support between Bauer and Cole, but I'd bet that Bauer receives more between the two. IMHO, run support makes a big difference when it comes to pitching statistics. If I am pitching to a lineup with a lead, my mentality on the bump will be more apt to be aggressive. Here's another "Football Analysis" to chew on....I'll use my Chargers! If Phillip Rivers lights up the Raiders D in the first half and gives the team a decent lead, this will generally free up the defense to be more aggressive and take chances with different blitz packages, etc...something the coaching staff may not do in a close football game? Pitching is Defense! If the Offense does their job, the Defense (pitcher) can relax and be more aggressive...JMO.

CD...I like your Mitchell/Harris analysis. You're a few years older than I am , so I don't remember their college careers. But I do recall Mitchell having a few good years with the Colts as an all purpose RB, and of course Franco Harris is a HOF RB. Now if the Steelers had chosen Mitchell with that pick, he'd most likely be in our Immaculate Reception conversations. I'd also like to think that Mitchell would have put up bigger numbers if he had the opportunity to lineup behind Bradshaw and that impressive offensive line of the 70's.

I'm headed out the door on my way to the Los Angeles Regional to check out the Anteaters tonight. They'll be playing the winner of the UCLA/USF game this afternoon. I won't have the chance to see either one of the Bruin studs on the mound, but I'll be happy to report to you which of the two stand in the dugout with more Swagger! HaHaHa...Like I said before, they're both great players, we can all agree with that! BUT...my family is headed to LA to root for one team, Rip Em Eaters!

Very interesting topic and unlike some, I don't think it is out of bounds to bring it up. Both guys will be making a lot of money soon and this kind of discussion comes with the territory.

For me, no matter what position you take regarding this topic, there's a legit argument you could make to support it. That's what makes it interesting, particularly since some big decisions will be made tomorrow regarding these guys.

However what seems a bit odd to me is someone making a lot of very strong opinions (while at the same time dismissing other's who feel a different way) who by their own admission, has never seen either one of them pitch.

What's up with that ?

quote:

Originally posted by Mark B:

How is not getting the job done? He has a 6-8 record and lost to the #4 seed last night.

FWIW, I was questioning this statement, his performance not translating into a possibly first round pick. It's apparent that Bauer is RIGHT now the better college pitcher. I don't think that anyone is arguing that point.

PG statement that pro ball is NOT about what is happening now against college hitters is right on. So are the statements about added pressure. I thank him for explaining how that works, why the hype about Gerrit Cole. Remove the excuses here about why he hasn't gotten it done this year and he still is better than most every pitcher in the country.

Actually, as GM I would go with ACC lefty pitcher Hultzen, with a 1.57 ERA, 11-3 record, less ER and BB than the two others. If I am NL GM then I like it better, he can hit!

Actually, I would take the pitcher that most likely would be a better fit for my defensive strategy or perhaps be very valuable later in trade.

Personally, I doubt that any of the first round players are ready to play ML ball.

While the op made a strong but defensible post regarding performance vs hype between two very talented pitchers, another poster not only denigrated the op but made observations and comparisons between the two pitchers without, by her own admission, having seen either pitcher pitch. We learned one had maturity issues, the other was probably a soft tosser, etc. How is this skill learned?

When your son gets drafted do you get a sanctioned crystal ball set complete with life time pass to make judgements on all the players that you can conjure up? If so maybe this unique capability should be licensed to PG who could put it to use without all the costly expenses of travel and labor that go into their evaluations.

It's gotten to the point it seems that any outlier position that is posted will be slammed because it doesn't seem to fit some ones preconcieved notion.

quote:

Originally posted by igball:
While the op made a strong but defensible post regarding performance vs hype between two very talented pitchers, another poster not only denigrated the op but made observations and comparisons between the two pitchers without, by her own admission, having seen either pitcher pitch. We learned one had maturity issues, the other was probably a soft tosser, etc. How is this skill learned?

When your son gets drafted do you get a sanctioned crystal ball set complete with life time pass to make judgements on all the players that you can conjure up? If so maybe this unique capability should be licensed to PG who could put it to use without all the costly expenses of travel and labor that go into their evaluations.

It's gotten to the point it seems that any outlier position that is posted will be slammed because it doesn't seem to fit some ones preconcieved notion.

You want to discuss any issue you might have going on? Where did I make a judgement on a player?

Are you serious? "one is tougher mentally. One uses fb more the other off speed" etc. All these comments without by your own admission that you haven't seen either pitch and the op according to you was off base by his comments.

Seriously after 15000 + posts it sometimes is a marvel how cliches can be repackaged as original thought.