@Ster posted:So, to go back to the OP's question about attending the camp, I would say that it really doesn't matter if your son runs a sub 7.0 or not. If you aren't already getting phone calls from the assistant coaches from that school, there is probably nothing that your son can do at the camp to really put him on their radar.
^^^ this
My son just attended his first camp, a mid major D1. This was in a cold weather state, and the entire full-day camp was outside. Temps were in the 20s when they started, never got higher than mid 30s. Nobody was told that it would be outside, but son brought a coldgear shirt & leggings just in case. There were a bunch of guys who didn't and were out there in just a t-shirt for 6 hours. The coaches all had winter coats on.
They ran the 60 first thing & the turf was coated with ice crystals. Just about everybody slipped at the start, and times were predictably worse than expected. It was impossible to stay loose, my son tweaked his arm during throwing drills because he couldn't stay warm while waiting around. BP was fine, guys dealt with the cold pretty well. They didn't do live ABs until the last hour & everyone's teeth were chattering. Only a few balls left the infield from the entire group. I'm not sure the coaching staff can get much evaluation in those conditions, and I'm surprised there weren't more injuries.
But there was money made. That is the bottom line. I was invited to help run one and the paid school coaches sat in the office that overlooked the field. They watched college football most of the day. I looked up there several times and none of them were looking at the field. But there were over 150 kids on the field who paid $200 each. Figure that up. $30,000 goes a long way toward getting a volunteer assistant to come. They ran one almost every weekend in the late summer and fall. And there were over 100 kids there every weekend.
Fall camps are tough due to poor weather. Don't attend unless they have a facility to move indoors.
Do your homework before you attend. Ask who will be running the camp.
Camps either belong to the HC or are run separately from the university.
In the larger programs, camps usually do not include the assistant coaches, prospect camps maybe.
Again, it all depends on the program and how it's set up to do business.
@947 posted:My son just attended his first camp, a mid major D1. This was in a cold weather state, and the entire full-day camp was outside. Temps were in the 20s when they started, never got higher than mid 30s. Nobody was told that it would be outside, but son brought a coldgear shirt & leggings just in case. There were a bunch of guys who didn't and were out there in just a t-shirt for 6 hours. The coaches all had winter coats on.
They ran the 60 first thing & the turf was coated with ice crystals. Just about everybody slipped at the start, and times were predictably worse than expected. It was impossible to stay loose, my son tweaked his arm during throwing drills because he couldn't stay warm while waiting around. BP was fine, guys dealt with the cold pretty well. They didn't do live ABs until the last hour & everyone's teeth were chattering. Only a few balls left the infield from the entire group. I'm not sure the coaching staff can get much evaluation in those conditions, and I'm surprised there weren't more injuries.
Please name the school.
Folks need to be aware of these things.
@SpeedDemon posted:Please name the school.
Folks need to be aware of these things.
We really don't do things like that here. Folks should use suggestions given as to what to look for and ask questions.
JMO
@TPM posted:We really don't do things like that here. Folks should use suggestions given as to what to look for and ask questions.
JMO
?
Did the coaches tell the parents and players not to tell anyone they held an outdoor camp in 20- and 30-degree weather? If not, then why would naming this school be a problem?
"We went to a daylong baseball camp at Higher Ed U that was held outdoors in freezing weather. Some of the athletes only had T-shirts on but the coaches wore parkas" is not controversial; it is a statement of fact.
My comment was not asking to "name and shame". It does not violate community standards.
What a twisted, harsh interpretation. So much hubris. Such a negative, unempathetic worldview.
@SpeedDemon posted:?
Did the coaches tell the parents and players not to tell anyone they held an outdoor camp in 20- and 30-degree weather? If not, then why would naming this school be a problem?
"We went to a daylong baseball camp at Higher Ed U that was held outdoors in freezing weather. Some of the athletes only had T-shirts on but the coaches wore parkas" is not controversial; it is a statement of fact.
My comment was not asking to "name and shame". It does not violate community standards.
What a twisted, harsh interpretation. So much hubris. Such a negative, unemphatic worldview.
Anyone who needs to know send a pm.
@SpeedDemon, I would assume that all D1 winter camps are money grabs unless you have a personal invitation to the camp and ongoing conversation with the coaching staff. However, I think you asked a fair question and if you get the answer I would like to know as well.
@SpeedDemon, not naming schools is just how things are generally done here; you are way over-reacting. There is, in fact, no need to name the school, the post by itself is a warning, that anyone should check on this kind of information before attending any winter camp.
It also emphatically illustrates that coaches are not taking camps seriously for evaluation.
@anotherparent posted:@SpeedDemon, not naming schools is just how things are generally done here; you are way over-reacting. There is, in fact, no need to name the school, the post by itself is a warning, that anyone should check on this kind of information before attending any winter camp.
It also emphatically illustrates that coaches are not taking camps seriously for evaluation.
I understand wanting to maintain a site that offers insights and keeps the discussion civil. Certainly, no one wants their site to be known as a place where people go to rage and bash others.
But there's a flipside that most posters here likely don't consider, esp if you're over 30 - nearly every group event these days is filmed and posted on social media. For events like a D1 baseball camp there are no doubt multiple videos and multiple posts.
Which means HSBBW posters in this case aren't giving up anything by naming the school - the information is already out there.
By attaching a name to a public action HSBBW can offer itself up as a more trusted, authoritative source of information vs say TikTok or YouTube. The audience for hyper-focused information that extends beyond a 10-second or 60-second video is huge. ref: Reddit.
Also, attaching proper names will improve the relevancy of this site to search engines, which will improve monetization. Google ranks websites based on the number of mentions of a specific search term combined with how many other sites containing that term link to the first site. HSBBW does itself no favors by taking itself out of the running for search results of "XXX University baseball camp".
@anotherparent posted:@SpeedDemon, not naming schools is just how things are generally done here; you are way over-reacting. There is, in fact, no need to name the school, the post by itself is a warning, that anyone should check on this kind of information before attending any winter camp.
It also emphatically illustrates that coaches are not taking camps seriously for evaluation.
Yet there is an entire topic that's called, "Ask about Colleges".
I agree with Speedemon. Name the school. If they did it, then it should be known. You don't have to bash them in naming them. You are just stating facts. We do it all the time. We talk about schools that give pay to play NIL deals. We name Deion Sanders and Colorado as bad guys for their perceived behavior and I could go on and on with the threads over the past few months. Why would this be any different? If it is your opinion, then that is one thing but if it is truth then that is another. Almost every one of us has been a part of calling out a coach or school that has done something wrong. So why not this school that did not tell their participants that the camp was outdoors in the freezing weather. But I will also say I blame parents because who lets their kid go to a camp in a cold weather state in the winter without cold gear if you are not sure. I would have asked and I'm not the asking type normally.
@SpeedDemon posted:?
Did the coaches tell the parents and players not to tell anyone they held an outdoor camp in 20- and 30-degree weather? If not, then why would naming this school be a problem?
"We went to a daylong baseball camp at Higher Ed U that was held outdoors in freezing weather. Some of the athletes only had T-shirts on but the coaches wore parkas" is not controversial; it is a statement of fact.
My comment was not asking to "name and shame". It does not violate community standards.
What a twisted, harsh interpretation. So much hubris. Such a negative, unempathetic worldview.
Hey Speed,
I understand your POV on the topic. There have been times when I felt it would be appropriate to name names here as to warn others when necessary. There are pro's and con's. I think, ultimately, the site has it right by taking the high road on this. The admins have done an great job of maintaining the generally civil, insightful, helpful nature of the site and this is part of those efforts. To PF's point, a lot of us are guilty of stretching the bounds at times but still...
You say your comment was not asking to "name and shame" but in effect, it would. You started an interesting thread back in March about parents saying abusive things to your kid. Unfortunately, there are more of those parents in this world than should be and they tend to be the ones that would abuse an open policy here and turn this site into a b*tch session and make it very uncivil (call that a negative worldview on my part if you wish).
Regarding your point about everything being video'd these days... you're right but that doesn't mean there aren't still proper etiquette guidelines - times and places where it is not appropriate to share or make public. I'm not saying that particular event should be exempt, just saying this is probably not the forum for it, depending on how it is presented.
As others have mentioned, PM can be used if someone has concerns that the school/coach/program/etc in question is one they might be dealing with.
Side note - I see you are from the Central Coast. I don't remember whether I ever asked you but we lived there for many years until recently. I'd be curious as to where. You can PM me if preferred 
Fair point made by @cabbagedad, but I seem to recall a recent thread about over recruiting (which is blatant & widespread at the D1 level) where anecdotal examples were dismissed by certain posters as not relevant unless schools were named. So which is it?
If you look at the threads in "Ask about colleges," there is very little negative that is posted there. I'm assuming that negative stuff, if any, gets sent in PMs.
When we discuss Sanders and other issues where schools are named, those are because they are in the national news. Or sometimes because someone has looked at a roster, or because CBI has posted a bunch of data. Not based on personal experiences, for the most part.
When someone has a negative personal experience, the school is usually not named. As people often remind us, the baseball world is small. Calling out an individual school by name, even anonymously, is not a great idea, especially if you are in the middle of recruiting.
@adbono posted:Fair point made by @cabbagedad, but I seem to recall a recent thread about over recruiting (which is blatant & widespread at the D1 level) where anecdotal examples were dismissed by certain posters as not relevant unless schools were named. So which is it?
Agree... sometimes the lines are grey. I'm glad I'm not one of the ones that have to make those decisions 
. I do have a pretty strong suspicion, though, of what the site would evolve into if it were a total free-for-all. JMO, not good at all. Hell, in my early days here, I was involved in more than a few ugly back-and-forths. Wiser folks here helped me chill out.
I started and stopped a message a couple of times this morning, and I'm glad I stopped, because Cabbage made the point I was going for better than I would have. I'll just say that RE Google, this site already ranks well, and as there is no effort here toward monetization, that is plenty. In fact, I think that's where much of the danger in a free-for-all is. Many users here have shared their names and/or their sons' names. Many others have left enough clues that it would be easy to figure out who they are. Once you have users freely trashing coaches and their programs by name, everyone who posts here, whether they are involved or not, will become guilty by association with a website that will soon be known for this and become highly unpopular amongst folks who hold power over young men's futures. Not a good idea, IMO.
I can tell you we went to one Fall camp that was fantastic. Vanderbilt. It was 30 degrees and Corbin addressed that saying games can rain out, but they can’t cold out. He was on the field the entire camp and it was run on schedule to the minute. My son was scheduled to throw during a 5 minute time frame and that is when he threw.
I agree that you can’t name names (negatively) while your son is still playing, sometimes I wish you could.
If 947 wants or doesn't want to name the program, that's their business. Send them a pm.
I mean if you go to a camp within cold weather states don't you prepare (as the player did). When you go to a tournie in the summer, don't you prepare for the weather? Isn't this all about common sense?
Isn't naming programs that over recruit different than a negative camp report because of the weather? Come on people. I don't know about anyone else but if you want to know who recruits more than they should, go to twitter, D1 baseball or Google. It's all there. No secrets
For the past few days folks have been losing their lives, homes, businesses due to devastating storms and some of you need to know which program this was? Not one person here has asked if everyone is ok? But you need to know which camp program that was described?! I don't get it!
I think there are a few here that need to get their priorities in order.
A suggestion, if SpeedDemon wants some clarification, she can take it up with the owner of the site.
JMO
@SpeedDemon posted:?
Did the coaches tell the parents and players not to tell anyone they held an outdoor camp in 20- and 30-degree weather? If not, then why would naming this school be a problem?
"We went to a daylong baseball camp at Higher Ed U that was held outdoors in freezing weather. Some of the athletes only had T-shirts on but the coaches wore parkas" is not controversial; it is a statement of fact.
My comment was not asking to "name and shame". It does not violate community standards.
What a twisted, harsh interpretation. So much hubris. Such a negative, unempathetic worldview.
Maybe the coach used the camp, in part, to see who would show up prepared and who wouldn't.
@Smitty28 posted:Maybe the coach used the camp, in part, to see who would show up prepared and who wouldn't.
Yes, but he did so in a dangerous way.
@cabbagedad posted:Hey Speed,
I understand your POV on the topic. There have been times when I felt it would be appropriate to name names here as to warn others when necessary. There are pro's and con's. I think, ultimately, the site has it right by taking the high road on this. The admins have done an great job of maintaining the generally civil, insightful, helpful nature of the site and this is part of those efforts. To PF's point, a lot of us are guilty of stretching the bounds at times but still...
You say your comment was not asking to "name and shame" but in effect, it would. You started an interesting thread back in March about parents saying abusive things to your kid. Unfortunately, there are more of those parents in this world than should be and they tend to be the ones that would abuse an open policy here and turn this site into a b*tch session and make it very uncivil (call that a negative worldview on my part if you wish).
Regarding your point about everything being video'd these days... you're right but that doesn't mean there aren't still proper etiquette guidelines - times and places where it is not appropriate to share or make public. I'm not saying that particular event should be exempt, just saying this is probably not the forum for it, depending on how it is presented.
As others have mentioned, PM can be used if someone has concerns that the school/coach/program/etc in question is one they might be dealing with.
Side note - I see you are from the Central Coast. I don't remember whether I ever asked you but we lived there for many years until recently. I'd be curious as to where. You can PM me if preferred
Great response. Thanks.
We can agree to disagree. I don't have any problems with stating facts. Naming names due to opinions or behavior or because we feel wronged is not OK.
********************
Separately but interestingly, last night while I was writing my response a relative stopped by. We got to talking and I explained this discussion to him. His immediate response: "that is abusive and dangerous".
Now, his opinion is relevant because he's an ER physician, at a Level 1 ER, at a large university. I was taken aback at how outraged he became because he's a super mild-mannered guy.
I hadn't really thought about the medical aspects of exposing young people to sub-freezing weather for 6-7 hours. But he did and he was angry.
@SpeedDemon posted:Great response. Thanks.
We can agree to disagree. I don't have any problems with stating facts. Naming names due to opinions or behavior or because we feel wronged is not OK.
********************
Separately but interestingly, last night while I was writing my response a relative stopped by. We got to talking and I explained this discussion to him. His immediate response: "that is abusive and dangerous".
Now, his opinion is relevant because he's an ER physician, at a Level 1 ER, at a large university. I was taken aback at how outraged he became because he's a super mild-mannered guy.
I hadn't really thought about the medical aspects of exposing young people to sub-freezing weather for 6-7 hours. But he did and he was angry.
OK but... Baseball is an outside sport. If you are going to a baseball camp and the weather forecast is 20's and 30's, it is absolutely your common sense responsibility (as you/your son did) to first check if cancelled, then come prepared with proper attire and maybe confirm that the event is to be moved indoors. Even if indoors, if the weather is that bad outside it's very likely to still be quite cold in an athletic indoor facility. Who the heck comes with just a tee shirt?? I know, that may be giving teens too much credit
Seriously, though, you can read plenty of stories on this site of college games being played in snow and/or freezing temps. Your ER doc can call that abusive all he wants but if you play in the NE, MINK states, Midwest or even Mid Atlantic (TONS of college programs in these areas), it's gonna happen. College season is roughly Feb thru May. Heck, one of my son's coaching gigs was in Tennessee and they had multiple snow games there. Also, those players are outside at the ballpark for 4-5 hours, much longer for doubleheaders (quite common). It is up to them to show up prepared to stay warm enough and loose enough to play when their time is called.
BTW, still curious where on the Central Coast you are if you don't mind sharing.
@SpeedDemon posted:I hadn't really thought about the medical aspects of exposing young people to sub-freezing weather for 6-7 hours. But he did and he was angry.
Teens snowboard and ski, they'll be fine. If nobody looked up the weather beforehand to dress appropriately they aren't bright enough to play at this program anyway.
Cold weather schools cannot afford to travel to NC, FL and Tx every week until May. If there is a scheduled game in March and it is 32 degrees out, they are playing. Can't cancel games and end up with a 31 game season.
We play in TX and I’ve sat through a lot of games in the 30s…..
Freezing, incapacitated, injured teenagers - it's their fault.
But don't name the school because it might make someone might look bad.
....
This HSBBW discussion has been enlightening but at the same time, quiet sad.
@SpeedDemon posted:Freezing, incapacitated, injured teenagers - it's their fault.
But don't name the school because it might make someone might look bad.
....
This HSBBW discussion has been enlightening but at the same time, quiet sad.
Sometimes I think we get a little carried away and literal with our interpretations of a message. If I were to take the same liberties, I would make the full-on assumption that you would have your son tell his college coach that he would not be playing in or attending any games when temps drop below 35 degrees. And, then, you would report the coach and program to the local media for playing those games under abusive conditions.
I know, that's silly huh.
The poster spelled out that the camp was in a cold weather state and it was cold. Others (including myself) pointed out that playing in those same temps for that same period of time is not uncommon in college baseball so prepare accordingly. Pretty simple. Shouting serious reportable abuse is IMO a huge stretch.
Also, the baseball world is a small one. If you can't grasp that it might be a bad idea to trash a program for such an occurrence in a prominent public forum in that community while your son is in the midst of his recruiting process, I don't know what else to say except, as you said, agree to disagree.
@SpeedDemon posted:Freezing, incapacitated, injured teenagers - it's their fault.
But don't name the school because it might make someone might look bad.
....
This HSBBW discussion has been enlightening but at the same time, quiet sad.
Camps should never be conducted outdoors in bad weather conditions IMO. There should always be an indoor option as a back up plan. The one and only PG showcase that any of my kids ever attended was the South National Showcase in Houston, TX in 2016. It was cold and raining sideways. And the showcase went on outside as planned. Kids ran 60 times into a headwind and driving rain. OF throws went into the same gale force wind. BP was hit into the same storm - which lasted all day. Field conditions were not safe and no player could perform. I sat with the “scouts” and listened as the made up comments and reports on the fly w/o having a grasp of what they were watching. They were just kids that had been rented to fill out forms. Every player and parent was furious. It was ridiculous and in that moment I knew what PG was all about. Cold, but dry, is a different situation however. Most of those will go as scheduled because, as many have pointed out, many teams play in cold weather in February and March. So it’s not crazy for cold weather schools to schedule a winter camp and have it outdoors if possible. They will be playing in those same conditions in 60-90 days. As far as naming schools goes, a PM is always the best way. Especially if you are active in the recruiting process. Coaches comb social media and comments by parents can have an impact on a kid’s recruiting. But usually only in one way - negatively. A parent’s comments can hurt a lot but rarely help even a little. I think that’s the best argument for not publicly naming schools. Although I see nothing wrong with it in this case. We are only talking about a camp. And that is a lesser subject than recruiting policies in general. So to say that naming schools that over recruit is okay (and oh btw furnish proof or your claim is unsubstantiated), and on the other hand say that a school that puts on a bad camp should not be named is …. certainly not consistent. So it’s pretty understandable that you feel enlightened.
If you want to blame anyone, not sure why, blame the parents sending their kid to a camp in December. If not playing another sport, you should be training to peak in the spring, not December. Granted, it’s less of an issue for hitters, but an absolute IMO for pitchers.
BTW, the coldah da bettah here in the NE 😀
Add to adbono regarding stating negative situations and naming the school publicly …
You may be outing school A but school B may see you as “that parent” and cut off recruiting.
I agree with that aspect of it when it comes to your son's recruiting but if a school does something wrong, I hate it that we don't out them. In my world it is like pastors who tear churches apart and no one will tell other churches. Or employers who won't give a bad reference to a horrible employee. To me we are lying, in a weird kind of way, when we do not out schools for doing bad things whether it is over recruiting, bad camps, lying during recruiting, or other things.
Nope, PF, I don't agree. Giving a reference to an employer, or telling another church about a bad pastor (presumably on a reference) is not public on the internet. In fact, aren't most references required to be kept private? Here, if you want to know, you can ask in a PM, which is private (as far as search engines go).
The same factors don't prevent us from outing schools on this site - of course anyone can do it. But all the arguments above - cabbagedad's, adbono's, JCG's, etc. - are why it's better for the individual and for the value of HSBBW not to.
Now if a pastor or employee does something criminal and it's in the news, that's different, then they are fair game for public discussion. Likewise, if the kids at this camp had gone to the hospital and there was a news report about it, we could definitely discuss it by name - and that often happens here.
It was still a great thing to report - anonymously - in a discussion about the value of college camps in recruiting, because it really shows how useless they can be for actually evaluating players.
Totally bugs the mess out of me too @CTbballDad. Winter showcases, tournaments and camps that are not part of the kid's progression back to season...and the pressure people feel to do all of these things. Some of them for really young kids!! In Dec through HS my son was playing basketball. Now, he is putting in the behind the scenes work. Lifting, conditioning...started swinging a little while ago but he goes early when no one else is there; he's working on what he needs to work on and not for others to see (or measure) what he is doing.
As for sharing names, I agree that its not a huge value add. The warning is enough without all the details--we all know what red flag to look out for now. It has been our experience that no matter how much information you share, names, specific experiences, examples other than just yours...folks sometimes still have to figure it out on their own. Sometimes it's because their circumstances are truly different (for example money was an issue for most our kids' youth careers so we had to make trade offs other parents might not need to make). Sometimes it's because the hype is too enticing. Sometimes it is because the landscape really has changed. And sometimes....well... some folks think that their kid is different and that what happened to your kid could never happen to theirs. And that's their prerogative.
I am not sure what the community standards are here anymore but the "no talk" rule here at hsbbweb was usually applied to members mentioning negative things about amateur ball players in public. Pro players are public figures so commentary on them is fair game. Parents deciding to mention their kids in public is of course ok. I don't really see the problem with mentioning this particular camp. Speed Demon has been a member here and has over 1000 posts so we can gauge his veracity. If a first time poster started bashing a school, I would be tempted to moderate that post because in that instance, it could be a rival school (or someone with an ax to grind) trying to denigrate the institution. That doesn't seem to be the case here. That said, and since the thread has gone in this direction, for members wanting to know the name, it seems a short PM to Speed Demon would be appropriate. 3/4 of the country is already ruled out by the information that was already posted.
I didn't say post the pastor's name publicly I do not understand ya'll's pm thing. If I am parent of 2025 and I'm reading on here. I have no clue if the school being talked about is one that I'm considering or not. I'm not PMing every person who talks about a camp but I would deeply appreciate wanting to know if the school my son is considering treats prospects that way.
But if the person is willing to post the name of the school they should be allowed to. I agree with ClevelandDad and I have been on here for years. I thought the only rule was don't call out players by name. I've never heard of don't call out schools, coaches, or such until this thread. It may not be good for the person if they have given info as to who they are or information that would allow someone to figure out who their kid is but if they want to name a school, they should be allowed to.
I also wonder if the school even had an indoor facility to do it in. If not, then I fully understand not having an option but who offers a December camp in Appalachia without having an indoor option available?
Just an update. My son felt confident that he had gotten faster with his speed training. He attended a camp recently and was indeed successful in breaking the 7.0 second mark! He has a new goal now to drop down to a sub 6.7. As for me, I'm just thrilled he met his sub 7.0 goal.
