Frustration setting in

Hey Meads,

Not enough background for anyone to do much but speculate but I'll throw out a few things to consider...

  You have mostly referred to your son as a RHP.  He is leading the team in IP, so it can't be all that bad.  Those coaches are the ones that make the decision who throws.

Also, plenty of coaches for this age group and up are not necessarily rah-rah, at-a-boy praise types.  Sometimes, if a coach knows a kid can take it, he may throw out more critical feedback in effort to try to get the most out of a player.  Don't know if that applies here.  The only thing you said (or implied) that might be of particular concern is if the coach is not engaged in giving son direction with regard to his pursuit of playing at the next level.  Usually, a travel team is formed at least in part to advance that pursuit.  Again, we don't know enough background.  Also don't know what discussions have taken place or how close your son is to being ready.  Is he already being recruited? 

As far as the coaches talking about the other pitcher, if he is going to be the #1 pitcher in the state, OF COURSE they are going to be talking about him a lot.  If that speculation is true, it really doesn't matter if his numbers over a short 9+ innings sample aren't great.  They are still gonna be excited to have him and they're gonna talk.  You should be happy he's on the team... it could mean there will be more RC's hanging around that will happen to see your kid throw.

As far as finding a new team, gather advice, do research on other options and make a level-headed decision.  Do keep in mind that you said his teammates are great.

The rest of the stuff, you really need to let go.  The player will succeed, earn playing time, advance to the next level, etc., based on his skill set, work ethic and character... but mostly skill set.   The fact that another player's dad twisted a few stats against him along the way is going to be a complete nothingburger in the long run.  Seriously.  LET IT GO.  You are robbing yourself of really enjoying the ride and you only get one go-around.  In fact, if that's how you are going to use your scorekeeping info, you may want to give serious consideration to retiring your pencil  

Re: twisted a few stats against him  

Maybe the player hit a single and went to second on a throw to another base.

Maybe the second “single” bounced right over a fielder’s glove.

Maybe a couple of the “stolen bases” were wild pitches or passed balls. 

Sometimes a player has better stats than another player because they don’t draw the tough assignments. 

@cabbagedad posted:

Hey Meads,

Not enough background for anyone to do much but speculate but I'll throw out a few things to consider...

  You have mostly referred to your son as a RHP.  He is leading the team in IP, so it can't be all that bad.  Those coaches are the ones that make the decision who throws.

Also, plenty of coaches for this age group and up are not necessarily rah-rah, at-a-boy praise types.  Sometimes, if a coach knows a kid can take it, he may throw out more critical feedback in effort to try to get the most out of a player.  Don't know if that applies here.  The only thing you said (or implied) that might be of particular concern is if the coach is not engaged in giving son direction with regard to his pursuit of playing at the next level.  Usually, a travel team is formed at least in part to advance that pursuit.  Again, we don't know enough background.  Also don't know what discussions have taken place or how close your son is to being ready.  Is he already being recruited? 

As far as the coaches talking about the other pitcher, if he is going to be the #1 pitcher in the state, OF COURSE they are going to be talking about him a lot.  If that speculation is true, it really doesn't matter if his numbers over a short 9+ innings sample aren't great.  They are still gonna be excited to have him and they're gonna talk.  You should be happy he's on the team... it could mean there will be more RC's hanging around that will happen to see your kid throw.

As far as finding a new team, gather advice, do research on other options and make a level-headed decision.  Do keep in mind that you said his teammates are great.

The rest of the stuff, you really need to let go.  The player will succeed, earn playing time, advance to the next level, etc., based on his skill set, work ethic and character... but mostly skill set.   The fact that another player's dad twisted a few stats against him along the way is going to be a complete nothingburger in the long run.  Seriously.  LET IT GO.  You are robbing yourself of really enjoying the ride and you only get one go-around.  In fact, if that's how you are going to use your scorekeeping info, you may want to give serious consideration to retiring your pencil  

Thank you, I can let it go.

I do a scorekeeping book to keep myself out of trouble   yelling, cheering and chit chatting with the other parents. Plus son and I go over things together.

His STATS are important to him- it tells him what he needs to work on, keep doing or change it up. For the most part, my stats and game changer line up most of the time. Sometimes he needs to compare himself to the others to gage where he is at.

As far as this other pitcher is concerned, we are glad that he is on the team, but to overhear the coaches talk about him rather than my son or the other great pitcher we have; I must say it kind of ticked me off. 2 weekends ago we played a 17U/18U team and beat them (my son pitched the whole game and struck out 5, allowed 3 hits and gave up only 1 run) EVERYONE including the other team and umpires congratulated him on his pitching except his coach- my son doesn't need the accolades but he does need to hear something good from the head coach, even a high 5 would have been sufficient, but when nothing is said, my son feels unappreciated and even more so when they praise this other one.

@RJM posted:

Re: twisted a few stats against him  

Maybe the player hit a single and went to second on a throw to another base.

Maybe the second “single” bounced right over a fielder’s glove.

Maybe a couple of the “stolen bases” were wild pitches or passed balls. 

Sometimes a player has better stats than another player because they don’t draw the tough assignments. 

Nope, just a straight shot to the Centerfield fence.

On the stolen bases, yes one was a passed ball but I thought those still counted as stolen bases...

I get the better stats/ not tough assignments- luckily my son, has always pitched against worthy opponents. He likes having the harder challenge.

On recruiting, have your son get in front of college HC/RC and get some feedback from them.  Your son should choose some college baseball camps with schools he wants to attend and that are a good fit academically and for baseball.   He will get an idea of where and if playing college is an option. 

Step back.   Put the Daddy stats to the side.   Look at the big picture.   Is this working or not working for your son.   If so, why?  If not, why?  Take a logical view of where your son is,and where he needs to be in 1.5 years.   Is this the program that can give him the opportunity to get there if he continues to work hard?

Understand you and your son's frustration.   At 16U your roles should be mostly established on a high school, Legion, or travel team.   If you are going to look at this through the frustration lens you'll probably get more frustrated.   I think you have to look at the bigger picture as if it were a job.   I think you have to have these three things to really make it work:

1) Am I happy?  Do I really like playing for this team? 

2) Is he being developed?   Am I learning something that is going to take me to the next level.   Is my coach helping my skills and giving me the opportunity to grow?

3) Valued.  Is he better off somewhere else?   Am I getting value for my money?  If you are paying to play on this team and you aren't satisfied with their effort/approach to developing your son then I think you need to meet with the travel coach to talk this through in a positive way.   I had a very frank conversation with my son's travel coach when he was 14 years old.   Best baseball conversation I ever had with that coach, and he became a HUGE advocate for my son 3 years later when we were making college decisions.

Good luck!

What is your son's fastball velo?  If it isn't in the high 80s right now, then he most likely won't be recruited until next summer.  Maybe the other kid is at 90 already?

When my son was 16U, there were parents who were upset that the coach wasn't doing more about recruiting.  Their kids were throwing in the low 80s, having success, or were hitting really well.  Our coach didn't ever explain to anyone that recruiting is not just about performance, it is about measurables first and then performance against strong competition, because college coaches have to know that you can play at the next level, not just the level you're at.  The kid who committed to a P5 after that summer couldn't find the strike zone to save his life, and lost us several games, but he was a hard-throwing LHP. 

I was clueless about recruiting, so I wasn't upset.  The next summer (rising senior), the head of our organization at some point said to me, "Parent expectations are out of whack, I've got 20 rhp throwing 85 who want to play somewhere." I wish he had told everyone that the previous year.

Not offering praise:  I agree that some do and some don't.  Also agree that the coach is showing what he thinks of your son by the playing time.  We had coaches (on travel teams) who didn't play some players much at all, without explanation - now those were what I call bad coaches. 

Mead, if he is hoping to get recruited, at 17 he will want a travel coach who will help him with that.  I would start now looking for a team with a focus on playing college ball.  The college coaches looking at your son will talk to his coaches.  Some will talk to your son because his coaches recommend him.  You want to find a travel coach who believes your son is a college prospect. 

You might also look for a trusted third party to objectively evaluate your son's potential as a college prospect.  Perhaps an area pitching instructor or work-out facility?  You don't want someone who will blow smoke.  You need an honest assessment of where he is.  We did this for my son just before his junior year of high school to make sure college ball wasn't just a pipe dream and he was targeting colleges that were a good fit.

Meanwhile, at 16, your son is a 2022, right?  I agree with JABMK.  Unless he is not ready, it is time for your son to start looking for opportunities to get in front of some college coaches and on their follow lists.  Not at local tournaments, but at a showcase or a few camps, perhaps in late summer or fall.  If you can get to one and can afford it, he should consider going to an event that will verify and put up his measurables, such as PBR, PG, Showball, HeadFirst, etc.  There may be other, more affordable options, but you want something college coaches have access to and can trust. 

Just my .02. 

Also, I agree with cabbagedad that you need to flush your concerns about game stats.  By all means, keep your own stats so you and your son can see how he's doing.  I would not compare him to other players on the team, though.  Focus on his performance and what he can work on.  Focus on what you can control, not what you can't.  I know it's hard.  I've felt many of the same things you're describing at various times, too.  We probably all have.  But those are not things worth stewing about.

ETA: My son is a position player, not a pitcher, so take this with a grain of salt, but I would not get overly obsessed with how fast his fastball is.  From what I'm seeing, there are plenty of D3 schools who recruit pitchers throwing in the low to mid 80s if they can locate and there are D1s who recruit kids throwing in the high 80s, especially if the college coaches think he projects to throw harder later.

My kid is in a similar situation with his coach where he feels undervalued.  However, he still gets his ABs in, he still gets his time in the field, and he still mostly enjoys his teammates.  So, I ask him what his problem is, and he just seems to want everybody to like him (just the way he is).  Frankly, I tell him that he needs to grow a pair and get over it. 

Another thing to note is that my kid is a little bit OCD.  That aspect helps him in baseball and academics as he will work on things tirelessly to improve them. However, in these situations, he needs to learn to control what he can control. 

Get objective feedback for sanity check on your sons skills.  Never wait for someone else to do your marketing.  Any coach willing to pick up the phone on behalf of your son is value added to the recruiting process.  I've seen plenty of avg kids which marketed themselves well land at a D3.  Clearly there has to be some skill for the appropriate level of college play. 

Also, think about the next 40 years...package him as a student athlete...stay focused on the grades and ACT prep...and keep up with the strength and speed programs...he's young...lots of time.

Getting caught up with another scorekeeper can be very frustrating... go stand along the fence, get away from behind the plate.  You'll have a better experience.

@LuckyCat posted:

ETA: My son is a position player, not a pitcher, so take this with a grain of salt, but I would not get overly obsessed with how fast his fastball is.  From what I'm seeing, there are plenty of D3 schools who recruit pitchers throwing in the low to mid 80s if they can locate and there are D1s who recruit kids throwing in the high 80s, especially if the college coaches think he projects to throw harder later.

I agree with this.  However, D3 schools recruit the summer after junior year.  So do low D1s.  So, if that's where he's headed, no need to worry about recruiting right now, other than doing the best he can do against the best possible competition, and learning everything he can.  That was my point about velo, and about my son's team's experience.  All those kids ended up committing to D2 and D3 schools, in fall of senior year.

Agree, if the other kid throws hard, which is my assumption if he is going to be #1in the state, and yours doesn’t but gets outs...the cold hard truth is that the other kid will be recruited.  Getting outs and throwing 82 is great for wins, but college coaches don’t care.

There was a poster here in the past whose son was all conference in a challenging California high school conference. The kid was a low 80’s puss thrower with great command and off speed stuff. The guy had his shorts in a bunch for years his kid wasn’t scouted by MLB or recruited by D1’s. 

Aside from a low 80’s fastball the kid had bad grades. There were character traits that could only be overcome with a 90+ fastball. The kid walked on at a JuCo and got three innings. Then he was tossed off the team and out of school for dealing. 

“Honest coach. I was holding it (a pound of pot) for a teammate. I didn’t know what it was.”

@anotherparent posted:

I agree with this.  However, D3 schools recruit the summer after junior year.  So do low D1s.  So, if that's where he's headed, no need to worry about recruiting right now, other than doing the best he can do against the best possible competition, and learning everything he can.  That was my point about velo, and about my son's team's experience.  All those kids ended up committing to D2 and D3 schools, in fall of senior year.

I agree, but have also noticed that with D3 and low D1, pitchers and catchers start getting attention earlier than position players, so not a bad idea to get on their radar by this fall if he is ready.  Pick a couple of camps at schools he likes and that are an academic fit and see what happens.  Or, if he has some video, send a few emails to those schools and include a link to the video.  D1s can respond to email and look at video during the dead period and, quite frankly, I don't think they have much else to do right now.  If your son has recruitable measurables, it cannot hurt to start reaching out or, if it is in your budget, to attend a showcase this fall. 

Fenwaysouth- my son loves his teammates but no he is not being developed and this season he doesn’t feel valued from the coaches- teammates and parents-yes. But we have to look at the big picture.

anotherparent- FB is mid to low 80’s however my son can throw FB, Curves, and Sliders. The other kid (#1 🙄) FB only and mostly low 80s plus he can’t go more than 3 innings or 40 pitches because his arm gives out.

LuckyCat- we are looking at other teams that are interested in developing players and interested in helping them find the right schools. My son has done PBR and a couple of D1 camps. He will be doing a showcase later this summer for D1-D3 and NAIA schools. He is contacting colleges. He feels he is more suited for a D3 (right now). He does have an NCSA account as well.

GOV- he has had some great feedback from other coaches and  umpires at games. At the showcases the feedback is so so. His pitching coach is a minor leaguer and also a player development coach for a D1 school and he gives my son honest feedback from time to time plus he is a really good mentor.

baseballhs-“ the other kid” is no where near a #1 in the state. Honestly I have seen way better. Plus he has yet to perform on the mound. Is he good?  yes. But he doesn’t put in the work or the arm care. I wouldn’t even say he is top 100 in the State. Now, for our area and schools he would definitely be a starter for JV, like my son would be. But I think (and my son has proven it already) that he could/would have been a back up for Varsity if the HS season had taken place. Next year will tell us more.

Overall, our team is doing tournaments on the weekends where college coaches “potentially could be there”. My son did get an email from a D3 coach who caught a video and wanted more info and more footage. So that was encouraging. 
My son looks at his pitching like a job he wants to succeed and do well. He works on the mental aspect and the physical. He takes his arm care seriously and he has goals. So we are looking down the road towards the future. Will he be happy playing for a team where he isn’t the starter? Yes, because he would see that as a challenge and work even harder to earn that position. This current team, we have 3 starters and 6 back up throwers but he is treated like he is nothing. And that’s where the frustration comes in at. When the other team coach comes to shake my sons hand after a job well done and his coach can’t even say nice job or thanks for doing your job, well, that says a lot too.

thank you all for the advice and wise words. The advice has been heard and will be applied. Wishing your kids success also.

Let me begin with the fact that these four guys who PBR has ranked as top pitchers for 2022 class in Kentucky are definitely better than what you are describing and I'm assuming the kid you are talking about is one of these. 

Paducah Tilghman LHP Justin West, another early Louisville commit, occupies the No. 2 spot. The 6-foot-3, 160 pound lefty is just scratching the surface of how good he will be as he fills in his frame. West can really pitch, showing pinpoint command of his fastball/curveball mix. The hand speed on his curveball that produces 2300-2400 RPM spin rates is an indicator that additional velocity is just around the corner for the top lefty in the class.

Lawrence County LHP Bryce Blevins, who committed to Kentucky early last summer, is in the No. 3 spot. Blevins has run his fastball up to 86 mph and possesses a swing-and-miss 72-74 mph breaking ball to go along with feel for a mid-70’s changeup.

Danville RHP Jack Simpson checks in at No. 4 after a strong showing at the Preseason All-State Showcase that saw him make a big jump in velocity. At 6-foot-3, 175 pounds, Simpson has an ideal pitcher’s frame and routinely sat 87-88 mph T89 in his bullpen. Add to that a solid 70-73 mph curveball and 75-77 changeup and Simpson has vaulted himself into the top-ranked right-hander in the class. Simpson is currently uncommitted.

Franklin County RHP Bennett Myers rounds out the top five. The 6-foot-3, 194 pound righty pounds the strike zone with an effective three-pitch mix. His fastball has topped at 86, and the curveball, which has always displayed good depth and spin, has gotten harder at 67-69. Myers also shows good feel for his 73-75 mph changeup. Myers is currently uncommitted.

Don't see how a Louisville and a Kentucky commit can be seen as not good pitchers.

BTW, coaches or scouts don't care how long a kid can pitch.  If you and your son are as unhappy as you sound, you definitely need to find a new team.  Why would you pay big money to be miserable?  But you need to be honest and when you are looking for a college, you need to find one that the coach is approachable and tells his players good job, which many do not.  Good luck. 

@PitchingFan posted:

Let me begin with the fact that these four guys who PBR has ranked as top pitchers for 2022 class in Kentucky are definitely better than what you are describing and I'm assuming the kid you are talking about is one of these. 

Paducah Tilghman LHP Justin West, another early Louisville commit, occupies the No. 2 spot. The 6-foot-3, 160 pound lefty is just scratching the surface of how good he will be as he fills in his frame. West can really pitch, showing pinpoint command of his fastball/curveball mix. The hand speed on his curveball that produces 2300-2400 RPM spin rates is an indicator that additional velocity is just around the corner for the top lefty in the class.

Lawrence County LHP Bryce Blevins, who committed to Kentucky early last summer, is in the No. 3 spot. Blevins has run his fastball up to 86 mph and possesses a swing-and-miss 72-74 mph breaking ball to go along with feel for a mid-70’s changeup.

Danville RHP Jack Simpson checks in at No. 4 after a strong showing at the Preseason All-State Showcase that saw him make a big jump in velocity. At 6-foot-3, 175 pounds, Simpson has an ideal pitcher’s frame and routinely sat 87-88 mph T89 in his bullpen. Add to that a solid 70-73 mph curveball and 75-77 changeup and Simpson has vaulted himself into the top-ranked right-hander in the class. Simpson is currently uncommitted.

Franklin County RHP Bennett Myers rounds out the top five. The 6-foot-3, 194 pound righty pounds the strike zone with an effective three-pitch mix. His fastball has topped at 86, and the curveball, which has always displayed good depth and spin, has gotten harder at 67-69. Myers also shows good feel for his 73-75 mph changeup. Myers is currently uncommitted.

Don't see how a Louisville and a Kentucky commit can be seen as not good pitchers.

BTW, coaches or scouts don't care how long a kid can pitch.  If you and your son are as unhappy as you sound, you definitely need to find a new team.  Why would you pay big money to be miserable?  But you need to be honest and when you are looking for a college, you need to find one that the coach is approachable and tells his players good job, which many do not.  Good luck. 

I believe the OP stated her son was top 2 on his team and over the course of this topic it morphed into #2 in the state...

No, it was that the other kid was overhead as people saying he was/would be #1 in the state.  Who can say whether it's true?  Main thing is, don't worry about the other kid, it's irrelevant. 

Meads, what is your relationship with the coach?  It's true that the boys should do the talking with their coaches about game stuff, but in our experience, the travel coach wanted to talk to parents about college recruiting.  After all, you are the one who will be paying for it.  Then the boy did all his own talking with colleges.  Have you asked the coach?  You can frame it as you are new to it all, and want basic information. 

I say this as a mom who was always very shy about talking to coaches; there are a couple of times I wish I had asked more questions.

I don't think many realize that meads is a mom.

@anotherparent posted:

Main thing is, don't worry about the other kid, it's irrelevant. 

 

Definitely this.

There wasn't a positive thing in this post. Why not just save yourself the headache and find a new team? If your son is as good as you say I'm sure someone else would be glad to have him. 

@meads posted:

 

LuckyCat- we are looking at other teams that are interested in developing players and interested in helping them find the right schools. My son has done PBR and a couple of D1 camps. He will be doing a showcase later this summer for D1-D3 and NAIA schools. He is contacting colleges. He feels he is more suited for a D3 (right now). He does have an NCSA account as well.

. . . .

 

My son did get an email from a D3 coach who caught a video and wanted more info and more footage. So that was encouraging.  

Sounds like you guys are doing the right things.  The fact that a D3 coach has already come a-calling says something.  Every time he feels like his travel coach doesn't appreciate him, he should remember that email.  And, just keep working at getting bigger, stronger, faster, better.  

@anotherparent posted:

No, it was that the other kid was overhead as people saying he was/would be #1 in the state.  Who can say whether it's true?  Main thing is, don't worry about the other kid, it's irrelevant. 

Meads, what is your relationship with the coach?  It's true that the boys should do the talking with their coaches about game stuff, but in our experience, the travel coach wanted to talk to parents about college recruiting.  After all, you are the one who will be paying for it.  Then the boy did all his own talking with colleges.  Have you asked the coach?  You can frame it as you are new to it all, and want basic information. 

I say this as a mom who was always very shy about talking to coaches; there are a couple of times I wish I had asked more questions.

Yes I am a mom.

The  “other kid” is not a ranked by PBR or PG or any other platform I know of. Neither is my boy. But as I stated in the original post, my son’s coach passes over my son and has been overheard talking about this “other kid”. 
Yeah, nothing positive is coming up from this team he is currently with except what I do for my son and what my son does for himself. 
I would never talk to the coach, I put that responsibility on my son. I told him he needs to talk to the coach, not my place to intervene. I would back him 100% except he would not be allowed to quit (if it came to that). We finish out the season. 👍

Of course I didn't mean talk to the coach about playing, attitude, etc.  That is entirely up to your son.

I meant talk to the coach about college recruiting.  Eventually, you (as well as your son) need to be able to talk to a travel coach about recruiting.  A coach should expect that not all parents will have all the answers.  If you can't talk to this one, all the more reason to find a different one. 

What other players are doing or how they are treated is irrelevant. Box scores are irrelevant. Is this a 16u or 17u team?

If 16u is the team positioning the player to get on the right 17u team? If 16u is the coach willing to help promote the player to the right 17u team? 

If 17u is the team playing in the right places to gain the right exposure to college coaches? If 17u do coaches have college contacts and are willing to use them on behalf of the player? 

As a player you don’t want to hope to be found. A player needs to be proactive along with his coach selling the player to the best possible academic, baseball, financial, social and cultural fit. 

meads,

pack it up and move on...it will be better in the long run for both you and your son.  Believe me...

If your son is running in the mid to low 80's at 16 he will most likely find a spot at the next level...not sure if you mentioned his height/weight, but if this is projectable then that will also help him as well.  Enjoy the baseball years and don't sweat the stuff you can't control.  Support your son and if he is willing to work hard and keep his head up then it will all pay off in the end.

@meads posted:

Fenwaysouth- my son loves his teammates but no he is not being developed and this season he doesn’t feel valued from the coaches- teammates and parents-yes. But we have to look at the big picture.

……………………………………………………………..

thank you all for the advice and wise words. The advice has been heard and will be applied. Wishing your kids success also.

 

 

Probably a good time for parent and player to meet with the Coach to discuss next steps for college recruitment.    Also, this would not be a bad time to get your son evaluated by a third party in the baseball business.   If you have access to some local baseball academies or instructors this would be a good next step to determine if he has the skills and projectability at the next level.   Others in this thread have suggested a skills evaluation and I totally agree. 

At most, your son has 18 months to be recruited in a pandemic that has changed the landscape of college baseball.  The current team situation you've outlined doesn't look like it is helping in your son's desire to play college baseball.   Have your son ask (with you present) the Coach about college baseball recruitment and if the Coach will help in his recruitment.   Listen very carefully to the answer.  At that moment in time you will know exactly what needs to be done.

Recruited = Passion + Skill + Exposure + Persistence + Luck

JMO.   Good luck!

Another thing occurs to me in reading over this thread.  It seems to me that at 16 and 17 most summer teams unfortunately do not make development a big priority.  While they'll work on some things where they can, they seem primarily focused on showcasing and recruiting, and expect the players and their families to look outside the team if they want real help developing.  Am I wrong about that?

You aren’t wrong and with most travel schedules, there isn’t much time to practice.

@LuckyCat posted:

Another thing occurs to me in reading over this thread.  It seems to me that at 16 and 17 most summer teams unfortunately do not make development a big priority.  While they'll work on some things where they can, they seem primarily focused on showcasing and recruiting, and expect the players and their families to look outside the team if they want real help developing.  Am I wrong about that?

I agree. These days  many 16,17 year olds have been training since they were 12, 13 maybe even younger. 

Here in Florida there are training centers everywhere for athletes in all sports. 

The parent has gotten great advice, its time to make a plan, starting with an evaluation from a qualified individual.

JMO

Recruited = Passion + Skill + Exposure + Persistence + Luck

Fenwaysouth says it all!  One or two parts alone won't get it done, need as many as you can have and do it well.  The only other thing I would add is to understand and be a student of the game better than others.

@LuckyCat posted:

Another thing occurs to me in reading over this thread.  It seems to me that at 16 and 17 most summer teams unfortunately do not make development a big priority.  While they'll work on some things where they can, they seem primarily focused on showcasing and recruiting, and expect the players and their families to look outside the team if they want real help developing.  Am I wrong about that?

We had a different experience with Baseball U CT.   Last summer Baseball U CT had 4 hour daily practices during the week all focused on player development.   Then on the weekends, they played tournaments to showcase players. The coaches all worked hard to help kids find the right college fit, including calling college coaches with whom they do have good relationships.  A great travel program will develop and assist in placing kids.  That is my experience.  

Our challenge has been summer ball/development before college.  Tough to find high-end baseball to play but we were fortunate to find a local league where a bunch of D3 commits (and some D1) are playing an 18 game July schedule.  First practices yesterday, an intrasquad scrimmage Saturday which I am going to watch and can't wait and first game Tuesday.   Excited to start watching baseball - with my mask on and socially distanced.  

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

We had a different experience with Baseball U CT.   Last summer Baseball U CT had 4 hour daily practices during the week all focused on player development.   Then on the weekends, they played tournaments to showcase players. The coaches all worked hard to help kids find the right college fit, including calling college coaches with whom they do have good relationships.  A great travel program will develop and assist in placing kids.  That is my experience.  

This has not been our experience.  Our son's team plays most of the week.  There is usually only one or two days off before it's time to start the next tournament.  There just really isn't much time for 4-hour practices once the season starts, especially if you're doing any traveling.

@LuckyCat posted:

Another thing occurs to me in reading over this thread.  It seems to me that at 16 and 17 most summer teams unfortunately do not make development a big priority.  While they'll work on some things where they can, they seem primarily focused on showcasing and recruiting, and expect the players and their families to look outside the team if they want real help developing.  Am I wrong about that?

LC,

I think your going to find a mixed bag on how travel teams operate.

My oldest son's travel ball experience was certainly focused on showcasing and recruiting.   The travel team would invite & bring college recruiters in for practices and scrimmages.   There was never a lack of exposure for the players as everyone would go on to play D1 baseball.   There was a pipeline of talent to many in-state schools through this travel team.   The development was left to the player however there was a roadmap and oversight by the travel team on their skills and physical progress.   There is no doubt my son owned his development and took it very seriously.   He was very self-motivated but the travel team also pushed him quite a bit through internal competition....there was a pecking order.  

He had a pitching coach (outside of the travel team) that he worked with since he was 11 or 12 years old.  This pitching coach was excellent for my son based on many factors and he would work with my son for another 6 years.   The travel team was also excellent as they provided the skills framework for my son to develop.   There was never any doubt what a player should be working on at any particular moment in season or off season.

Just my experience.

@LuckyCat posted:

Another thing occurs to me in reading over this thread.  It seems to me that at 16 and 17 most summer teams unfortunately do not make development a big priority.  While they'll work on some things where they can, they seem primarily focused on showcasing and recruiting, and expect the players and their families to look outside the team if they want real help developing.  Am I wrong about that?

I think the idea for most is that high level players don't need their hands held. Summer practice is more for reps and staying sharp than it is development. The way I see it is that these players had from Nov-June to develop. 

One of the teams he played for at 16/17 did not practice at all. They'd get to the tournament a day early and take some BP/ground balls but that was it. 5 guys on that team were drafted out of HS. 

By the time you're a junior or senior in HS if you're still worried about development - recruiting is likely going to be an issue. You have to work on your own time to get where you want to be. 

My son’s 17u team wasn’t void of instruction. But practice was more reps than instruction. I felt I was paying for the coaching staff’s contacts and credibility. The big changes were made between soph and junior year with a third party. 

@PABaseball posted:

By the time you're a junior or senior in HS if you're still worried about development - recruiting is likely going to be an issue. You have to work on your own time to get where you want to be. 

Who said anything about being "worried?"  Every player should keep developing, even after he is playing in college, even after he's drafted.  There is always room to get better and any self-respecting athlete is going to keep working at it.  I haven't seen a kid yet on a 17u team that should stop working on his development, including a few first round draft picks.

I realize that it is the reality that these "showcase teams" are all about recruiting and not much about developing (except in game reps as other have pointed out) but I find that sad, really. I also think that it has contributed to pricing baseball right out of some people's budgets and helped make baseball more and more a rich family's sport.

@LuckyCat posted:

Who said anything about being "worried?"  Every player should keep developing, even after he is playing in college, even after he's drafted.  There is always room to get better and any self-respecting athlete is going to keep working at it.  I haven't seen a kid yet on a 17u team that should stop working on his development, including a few first round draft picks.

I realize that it is the reality that these "showcase teams" are all about recruiting and not much about developing (except in game reps as other have pointed out) but I find that sad, really. I also think that it has contributed to pricing baseball right out of some people's budgets and helped make baseball more and more a rich family's sport.

Form of speech, not actually worried. I understand development never ends, I meant it more to say if you're 16/17 you will be doing a lot of the development on your own time. If you're relying on your summer coach to give instruction on how to be a better ballplayer it would likely imply that playing college ball is going to be an uphill battle. 

When I think development I think training, lifting, mechanics, etc. A summer coach should be able to contribute to all that, but I also think that should be done year round on an individual basis, not during team practices. IMO you have all year to develop for HS and summer ball. That is where you see the results of said development. 

I hear ya PABaseball and have written the checks to fund my son's off-season workouts and instruction.  I mainly started down this particular rabbit hole because of Meads' comments that her son's current coach wasn't developing him.  I suspect her son's coach doesn't think its his job to develop her son, and many other coaches (and parents) would agree with him.  I, however, wish there was a little more of a balance between showcasing and developing.

On a related note, I've also wished there was a better balance between showcasing and coaching.  We are fairly satisfied with our son's team and baseball organization, but I have come to realize lately that the coach isn't really that interested in winning games as long as his boys are being seen and so doesn't actually do a lot of coaching during games.  Maybe I just miss 12u baseball.    But that's another digression.