We got back from dropping of Freshman RHP to first year of College.
Had a great trip driving out , getting the dorm situated and my son on track for first day of classes today.
My question is this...
What is typical amount of players you have seen at the start of fall practice for various school rankings?
-D1 p5
-D1 mids
-D1 lower
D2
D3
thanks , just looking for others experiences regarding this.
My son's mid D1 seems to have a lot of players ..55 ish 
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61 players on fall roster at Cisco College (TX) which is a D1 JuCo in NJCAA Region 5. Cisco almost always Fields a really good team in the toughest JuCo Conference in America. But 61 kids? Really?? How many of those kids knew there would be 60 other players there when they committed? Better do your homework! All of those kids are going home at end of fall semester but at least 20 won’t be going back in the spring. Over-recruiting is rampant at many D3 & NAIA schools also. An NAIA HC recently told me he has over 100 kids in his program. He kids a financial incentive for all he brings in over a certain threshold (80 - I think). Better do your homework people. Many, many schools are using athletic “walk on roster spots” as a way to bolster tuition income. At these schools the only opportunity the walk on kids get is the opportunity to pay for school.
I don't know that there is a typical amount at D1 schools l It is largely dependent on the coach's philosophy regarding walk-ons, development, etc.
I would add it is tough to know how many each school has because many do not put out a fall roster so unless you go look for yourself or talk to a player there is very little way to know. Coaches have different philosophies. Some say I'm gonna give as many kids as want a chance to earn a spot but I know going in that X number are not up for grabs because those kids have proven they can play. Others say I have only 2-5 slots open and I'm gonna bring in a limited number to fill those slots of kids I think can help me.
As has been said, NAIA and D3 are notorious as a group for bringing in a lot of kids in the fall because they get part of their salaries for how many they have. If you are wondering, you better go look for yourself in the fall. Not a good time if you are one of the ones who is told in December that there is no room for you in the inn.
55 at a D1? I've never heard of anything close to that number. I think upper 30's is about the most I've seen a D1 team have in the fall, but I'm sure there may be some that have more...but 55 seems ridiculous. Did you son have any idea that they would have that many?
As far as Juco's, D3's, etc. Upper 50's, low 60's and even more isn't uncommon. Keep in mind, those kids are money makers for the school, and if they are willing to come in, even if it's only 1 semester, that's a large chuck of $$$ for the school. My son is a first year volunteer assistant at an NAIA school. I know in the past they have had 80+ in the fall....and end up in the upper 50's, low 60's by spring (they play a full JV schedule). They get a lot of international kids....who ultimately decide that the states (and winter) isn't for them
"All of those kids are going home at the end of the fall semester but at least 20 won’t be going back in the spring."
Let's say you get cut after the Fall? What do you do? Besides throw in the proverbial towel. What has happened for our experienced commentators?
Yeah I thought 55 was a ton too! Program is rebuilding and we thought we would have low mid 40's.. but it appears that they have a ton of Juco transfers that have far exceeded the "whatever typical amount of Juco transfer's " is.
There are only a few spots that are not up for grabs, maybe like 3 or 4 - the remaining 30 or so rosters spots are pretty much up for grabs. I know that this isn't typical and you could feel the nervous energy in the freshman's faces when I was there. But the good news is- if they work hard and do well, they will earn a spot. There will be no waiting behind upper classman . Freshman will have a decent shot at starting for position players and getting innings as a pitcher. Cather is up for grabs, SS, 1b, 3b even Friday starter..
still- it seems like a lot. I am sure the upper classman were astonished as well. A lot of Plan B's will need to be formulated.
Son's experience with a strong D2 is typically about 40 in the Fall, with usually 1-2 cuts and 3-5 Freshman are tagged for Redshirt (RS) year. And RS is legitimate with many of the kids who RS as Freshman contributing in later years.
Hard to believe any good comes from rosters of 50+ at any level. It is hard enough for many players on 35 man rosters to get their ABs and innings--there must be little hope for so many kids who have to put in the work and time commitment to be on the team with these huge rosters.
fishnsail posted:Yeah I thought 55 was a ton too! Program is rebuilding and we thought we would have low mid 40's.. but it appears that they have a ton of Juco transfers that have far exceeded the "whatever typical amount of Juco transfer's " is.
There are only a few spots that are not up for grabs, maybe like 3 or 4 - the remaining 30 or so rosters spots are pretty much up for grabs. I know that this isn't typical and you could feel the nervous energy in the freshman's faces when I was there. But the good news is- if they work hard and do well, they will earn a spot. There will be no waiting behind upper classman . Freshman will have a decent shot at starting for position players and getting innings as a pitcher. Cather is up for grabs, SS, 1b, 3b even Friday starter..
still- it seems like a lot. I am sure the upper classman were astonished as well. A lot of Plan B's will need to be formulated.
Wow, sounds like an awful situation. I would caution your "freshman will have a decent shot at starting for position players" comment, especially because you mention a ton of Juco transfers. It's tough enough for a freshman to earn playing time....throw in a bunch of guys 2 or 3 years older and that "tough" just got even tougher. Juco guys being brought into D1's are typically "D1 guys" that didn't go D1 out of HS, for many different reasons. Now those guys have a year or two of college experience....and are showing up expecting to contribute. D1's don't bring in Juco guys unless they expect them to contribute and play right away. They don't bring them in to "fill roster spots". Good luck to your son....hopefully things work out well.
JUCO guys are brought in to contribute right away. They've also been training 5-7+ hours a day for 2 years straight. Pretty tough for most college freshman to compete in that atmosphere. D1 Fall Ball for most college freshman is brutal. D1 Fall Ball for most JUCO guys is a nice easy day.
Backstop22 posted:Son's experience with a strong D2 is typically about 40 in the Fall, with usually 1-2 cuts and 3-5 Freshman are tagged for Redshirt (RS) year. And RS is legitimate with many of the kids who RS as Freshman contributing in later years.
Hard to believe any good comes from rosters of 50+ at any level. It is hard enough for many players on 35 man rosters to get their ABs and innings--there must be little hope for so many kids who have to put in the work and time commitment to be on the team with these huge rosters.
I agree. It's tough on these young men who work hard only to sit all season or be "cut", at least in part because of the numbers game. I suspect some coaches say, why does roster size or number of Fall invitees matter? What, are you afraid of competition? Of course not. But to me that is not exactly a fair point -- when you get over 50 players, can the Coaches truly assess everyone adequately and fairly? In any case where there are cuts, there is a risk that some favoritism or inequality of opportunity could come into play. It's just human nature and unavoidable. If the invited/walk on/preferred walk on player is advised of what the numbers are and goes in with his eyes open, that is one thing. But it seems there are many instances of the Coach not exactly giving full disclosure. I would hope a Coach would not encourage a recruit to enroll to meet quotas or to earn a bonus but apparently that does happen. I agree that due diligence is essential - but as other posters have stated, this information is not always publicly available, and even if you ask the Coach directly (which can be difficult to do) or other players, you may not get the whole truth.
This Board could be useful to report this type of information, but understandably folks are hesitant to report "private" information on a public forum, even with a screen name and the person reporting could be unrealistic or have an axe to grind, which renders some of the information useless. The power of information is with the HC and hopefully he or she is acting fairly. The player has to go in with his eyes open, control what he can control and hope for the best!
Son got his eyes opened when he showed up for practice for the D2 JuCo he was recruited to. First day there were 55 or so. Throughout most of the fall season, there were 50 or so on average. A few had quit within a week or so.
Some asked the coach if there would be cuts. His response was he usually didn't have to. By spring opening day the roster was down to about 35. The rest either quit due to grades, disillusionment or injury. There were a few "red shirted." By the end of the season the active roster was down to 28 due to some more injuries and a few that quit due to very little playing time.
By contrast the coach of the D2 university that recruited him, only had 28 or so to begin the season. He did not feel the need to over recruit. There were a few that were dropped due to injury (usually red shirted) and maybe one or two due to grades. They still had at least 25 or so actively on the team by end of season.
So just to update on Frosh Son's situation. They had the first official meeting and it appears there are about 26/27 returnees and 27/28 combo frosh and transfers (50/50 split between the newbies).
Looks like it is going to be a interesting fall, as they also hired a Drill sergeant for workouts , lol,which start immediately. Son is a little nervous about the situation but I have confidence in him as he has worked his whole life for this. Just had the first phone pep talk of many I am sure.
I will keep updating this thread as the fall progresses through all the ups and downs..
thank you all for your support!
An update on Frosh son and Team, One month in for his Mid D1
A few kids quit and left and now they are down to 53ish ...
Workouts have been tough. He usually gets up at 4:50 to get there at 5:30 five days a week. Then he gets back around 7 ,showers and eats Breakfast then goes to his first classes which start at 8 M,W,F and 9 T,Th. His classes are done by noon. He will eat lunch after that then heads to the field for practice or bullpens.
On Saturdays they have to help out at the schools Home football games. Then Sat night there may be a party or two which he says he is the designated driver(hmmm)
He came to School 6'3" and 175 and today he is 182lbs and its all muscle gain (per him). They have him on a 5000 calorie diet, a lot of eggs and protein.
They started Intra squad scrimmages this past weekend. He pitched 1 inning(first inn since july) , did OK ,couple walks a couple errors, 1 weak hit but is figuring things out. He said velo was down a little but offspeed was working well. spoke to to his pitching coach back home soon after. they spoke and he gave him a fix for his next bullpen..and to bring the velo and his typical control back.
He saw the 25 or so other kids pitch too.. He says that it looks wide open for spots.
Word is there may be some cuts this week (thank god) .
I will update the progress..
thank you
I think my son has 41 in fall. A few are hurt so really close to the 35 already. Son has gotten 2 innings in scrimmage last week and pitched as always 2 K's, 1 hit, no walks and will get 1 today and should get 1 Saturday in Scrimmage with Clemson. He has gotten 1 at bat and was on deck in another scrimmage. Probably earned a little respect and maybe more at bats yesterday as he hit 3 of 20 pitches out and 1 was really deep. Has never worked so hard at his batting as he has in the past 3 months. It has always come easy but as a pitcher trying to earn a spot on a P5 hitting lineup he has had to put in about 2 hours a day extra and many days by himself because it is after his pitching workouts when the other hitters are already gone.
PitchingFan posted:I think my son has 41 in fall. A few are hurt so really close to the 35 already. Son has gotten 2 innings in scrimmage last week and pitched as always 2 K's, 1 hit, no walks and will get 1 today and should get 1 Saturday in Scrimmage with Clemson. He has gotten 1 at bat and was on deck in another scrimmage. Probably earned a little respect and maybe more at bats yesterday as he hit 3 of 20 pitches out and 1 was really deep. Has never worked so hard at his batting as he has in the past 3 months. It has always come easy but as a pitcher trying to earn a spot on a P5 hitting lineup he has had to put in about 2 hours a day extra and many days by himself because it is after his pitching workouts when the other hitters are already gone.
PItchingfan.....my son tried the 2-way thing his freshman year. I've got to tell you it was a grind. I think it effected him on the mound (which was his primary position). Sophomore year he didn't hit...just a PO. Junior year, he went back to DH'ing. He was the closer and they didn't win much so he wasn't throwing much. Senior year, arm injury so he was the every day DH. mid-way thru the year he was hitting .370 before he missed some time due to sickness. Ended up .320. He could have come back to pitching late in the season, but by that time had just decided that the 2-way thing wasn't worth it. He couldn't concentrate on either and it effected him in both positions. He was at a lower level mid-major. Can't imagine what it'd be like doing it at a P5.
For a successful 2-way player, I direct you'll to Mike Ford. Now playing 1B with the Yankees. Was one of the best all-time pitchers in Princeton's history.
I've never seen a harder worker or more ferocious competitor. (When heckled, he would walk over to the heckler [be it the opposing dugout or stands], tell him how he would retire the side, would deliver, and on his way back to the dugout detour back to the heckler.)
He would literally sleep in the locker room so he could get extra reps.
Danny Hultzen was also a very good two way player at UVA, but was drafted as a P and while it took him 9 years and several injuries/surgeries, is finally a P for the Cubs.
My son was at a D-1 Mid Major for 2 years and they had 40-43 in the fall both years. Last year he transferred to a D2 Juco and they had over 70 for the fall. Pretty sure that was done to make some money as they had to pay for t-shirts and hats in he fall. This year he at a P5 and they have 38 on their roster. When he was still in HS, his travel team played at an SEC school and before he played his game, the team was scrimmaging. They had 53 guys in uniform that day.
I just wanted to post an update as maybe this can help other players or parents or both.
We visited our Freshman Son last week at school. We were quite happy to see him. He is a super good kid that everyone likes..A real good Egg.. The previous few weeks he has been doing well in Academics ,good at getting on with a new busy routine and making friends and doing Ok in baseball. What does OK mean? It's probably Borderline at best as you they have 53 kids fighting for 35 roster spots and 27 travel spots with about 15-18 JUCO transfers...on a mid D1
When we visited him you could tell he was off. His mind was on his girlfriend who is at another school far away(who also visited him a few weeks earlier). He seemed nervous and worried about his "making the team" and was often focused on his phone rather than us or the task at hand. He didn't seem himself. He was focused on how he doesnt like the area where the school is and the town its in and looking at all the negative side instead of the positive side.
And there are always positive sides. He is healthy, He is smart, He is Free.. I can go on and on.
It is true that the only reason he picked this school was for baseball and the coaches and he would of never went there if it wasnt for that. I just want to highlight that. He seemed like he would be "loved" there and he has some ties to the staff but , in the end, he probably would of stayed more local if he had a better deal closer to home and "if" he knew there would be almost 60 kids at the start of fall ball..
We saw him pitch while we were there where he did well for 2 innings and then "not so well" in the third. Same thing happened this week. 2 good innings and roughed up in the 3rd.
He looked off to me on the mound. After a great dominant summer + working out heavy for the first time we thought he would have a great fall . Instead it appeared he was a bit lost and not smooth. Command was off. etc.. He isn't hurt so we can rule that out.
maybe its the workouts, maybe its eating 5k cals a day to put on weight , maybe it is his girlfriend, maybe its being homesick, maybe it is a combo of all of the above.
When we left we really tried to accent the positive and good things but realized that a Plan B or C may have to be implemented.
maybe it wasn't the right fit in the first place. maybe it still is. Maybe in the next 2 weeks he will turn it around and find himself.
Adversity is a strength builder. Happiness is key.
So that is where he is right now. It is tough for us and tougher for him I am sure. I know that if he gets redshirted he probably will not stay . It may be time to start looking into this portal thing, or a temporary juco or both. Maybe that was the Universe or God's plan all along for him. Not to go the easy route. Things are rarely easy. Of course there are the gifted athletes, the "Freaks" as I call them. They will make all the teams no matter what. It is the other 90-95% that have to have it in them ..to work hard.... to have it in their heart..to overcome adversity.
I just wanted to put this out for all the players and parents who are in HS right now and looking for schools.
You need to ask yourself.. "Is baseball the only reason I am going to this school"? If your answer is mostly yes then maybe it might not be the correct fit.
best of luck to all of you. Have a great weekend
Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. - Michael Jordan
fishnsail posted:I just wanted to post an update as maybe this can help other players or parents or both.
We visited our Freshman Son last week at school. We were quite happy to see him. He is a super good kid that everyone likes..A real good Egg.. The previous few weeks he has been doing well in Academics ,good at getting on with a new busy routine and making friends and doing Ok in baseball. What does OK mean? It's probably Borderline at best as you they have 53 kids fighting for 35 roster spots and 27 travel spots with about 15-18 JUCO transfers...on a mid D1
When we visited him you could tell he was off. His mind was on his girlfriend who is at another school far away(who also visited him a few weeks earlier). He seemed nervous and worried about his "making the team" and was often focused on his phone rather than us or the task at hand. He didn't seem himself. He was focused on how he doesnt like the area where the school is and the town its in and looking at all the negative side instead of the positive side.
And there are always positive sides. He is healthy, He is smart, He is Free.. I can go on and on.
It is true that the only reason he picked this school was for baseball and the coaches and he would of never went there if it wasnt for that. I just want to highlight that. He seemed like he would be "loved" there and he has some ties to the staff but , in the end, he probably would of stayed more local if he had a better deal closer to home and "if" he knew there would be almost 60 kids at the start of fall ball..
We saw him pitch while we were there where he did well for 2 innings and then "not so well" in the third. Same thing happened this week. 2 good innings and roughed up in the 3rd.
He looked off to me on the mound. After a great dominant summer + working out heavy for the first time we thought he would have a great fall . Instead it appeared he was a bit lost and not smooth. Command was off. etc.. He isn't hurt so we can rule that out.
maybe its the workouts, maybe its eating 5k cals a day to put on weight , maybe it is his girlfriend, maybe its being homesick, maybe it is a combo of all of the above.
When we left we really tried to accent the positive and good things but realized that a Plan B or C may have to be implemented.
maybe it wasn't the right fit in the first place. maybe it still is. Maybe in the next 2 weeks he will turn it around and find himself.
Adversity is a strength builder. Happiness is key.
So that is where he is right now. It is tough for us and tougher for him I am sure. I know that if he gets redshirted he probably will not stay . It may be time to start looking into this portal thing, or a temporary juco or both. Maybe that was the Universe or God's plan all along for him. Not to go the easy route. Things are rarely easy. Of course there are the gifted athletes, the "Freaks" as I call them. They will make all the teams no matter what. It is the other 90-95% that have to have it in them ..to work hard.... to have it in their heart..to overcome adversity.
I just wanted to put this out for all the players and parents who are in HS right now and looking for schools.
You need to ask yourself.. "Is baseball the only reason I am going to this school"? If your answer is mostly yes then maybe it might not be the correct fit.
best of luck to all of you. Have a great weekend
Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. - Michael Jordan
Thank you for sharing what I’m sure is a deeply emotional time for your family. I just read your post to my 16yr old as we sat down to make his initial list of schools. You can make a square peg fit in a round hole. But it takes an immense amount of “grinding” and sometimes alters the integrity of the peg. Wishing your son luck in finding his path and, above all else, happiness.
fishnsail posted:I just wanted to post an update as maybe this can help other players or parents or both.
We visited our Freshman Son last week at school. We were quite happy to see him. He is a super good kid that everyone likes..A real good Egg.. The previous few weeks he has been doing well in Academics ,good at getting on with a new busy routine and making friends and doing Ok in baseball. What does OK mean? It's probably Borderline at best as you they have 53 kids fighting for 35 roster spots and 27 travel spots with about 15-18 JUCO transfers...on a mid D1
When we visited him you could tell he was off. His mind was on his girlfriend who is at another school far away(who also visited him a few weeks earlier). He seemed nervous and worried about his "making the team" and was often focused on his phone rather than us or the task at hand. He didn't seem himself. He was focused on how he doesnt like the area where the school is and the town its in and looking at all the negative side instead of the positive side.
And there are always positive sides. He is healthy, He is smart, He is Free.. I can go on and on.
It is true that the only reason he picked this school was for baseball and the coaches and he would of never went there if it wasnt for that. I just want to highlight that. He seemed like he would be "loved" there and he has some ties to the staff but , in the end, he probably would of stayed more local if he had a better deal closer to home and "if" he knew there would be almost 60 kids at the start of fall ball..
We saw him pitch while we were there where he did well for 2 innings and then "not so well" in the third. Same thing happened this week. 2 good innings and roughed up in the 3rd.
He looked off to me on the mound. After a great dominant summer + working out heavy for the first time we thought he would have a great fall . Instead it appeared he was a bit lost and not smooth. Command was off. etc.. He isn't hurt so we can rule that out.
maybe its the workouts, maybe its eating 5k cals a day to put on weight , maybe it is his girlfriend, maybe its being homesick, maybe it is a combo of all of the above.
When we left we really tried to accent the positive and good things but realized that a Plan B or C may have to be implemented.
maybe it wasn't the right fit in the first place. maybe it still is. Maybe in the next 2 weeks he will turn it around and find himself.
Adversity is a strength builder. Happiness is key.
So that is where he is right now. It is tough for us and tougher for him I am sure. I know that if he gets redshirted he probably will not stay . It may be time to start looking into this portal thing, or a temporary juco or both. Maybe that was the Universe or God's plan all along for him. Not to go the easy route. Things are rarely easy. Of course there are the gifted athletes, the "Freaks" as I call them. They will make all the teams no matter what. It is the other 90-95% that have to have it in them ..to work hard.... to have it in their heart..to overcome adversity.
I just wanted to put this out for all the players and parents who are in HS right now and looking for schools.
You need to ask yourself.. "Is baseball the only reason I am going to this school"? If your answer is mostly yes then maybe it might not be the correct fit.
best of luck to all of you. Have a great weekend
Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. - Michael Jordan
I’m curious to know if a fall roster is posted on the baseball website of the school your son is attending. If so, does it show 53 players. I can’t imagine that they are making that information available to the public.
LousyLefty posted:fishnsail posted:I just wanted to post an update as maybe this can help other players or parents or both.
We visited our Freshman Son last week at school. We were quite happy to see him. He is a super good kid that everyone likes..A real good Egg.. The previous few weeks he has been doing well in Academics ,good at getting on with a new busy routine and making friends and doing Ok in baseball. What does OK mean? It's probably Borderline at best as you they have 53 kids fighting for 35 roster spots and 27 travel spots with about 15-18 JUCO transfers...on a mid D1
When we visited him you could tell he was off. His mind was on his girlfriend who is at another school far away(who also visited him a few weeks earlier). He seemed nervous and worried about his "making the team" and was often focused on his phone rather than us or the task at hand. He didn't seem himself. He was focused on how he doesnt like the area where the school is and the town its in and looking at all the negative side instead of the positive side.
And there are always positive sides. He is healthy, He is smart, He is Free.. I can go on and on.
It is true that the only reason he picked this school was for baseball and the coaches and he would of never went there if it wasnt for that. I just want to highlight that. He seemed like he would be "loved" there and he has some ties to the staff but , in the end, he probably would of stayed more local if he had a better deal closer to home and "if" he knew there would be almost 60 kids at the start of fall ball..
We saw him pitch while we were there where he did well for 2 innings and then "not so well" in the third. Same thing happened this week. 2 good innings and roughed up in the 3rd.
He looked off to me on the mound. After a great dominant summer + working out heavy for the first time we thought he would have a great fall . Instead it appeared he was a bit lost and not smooth. Command was off. etc.. He isn't hurt so we can rule that out.
maybe its the workouts, maybe its eating 5k cals a day to put on weight , maybe it is his girlfriend, maybe its being homesick, maybe it is a combo of all of the above.
When we left we really tried to accent the positive and good things but realized that a Plan B or C may have to be implemented.
maybe it wasn't the right fit in the first place. maybe it still is. Maybe in the next 2 weeks he will turn it around and find himself.
Adversity is a strength builder. Happiness is key.
So that is where he is right now. It is tough for us and tougher for him I am sure. I know that if he gets redshirted he probably will not stay . It may be time to start looking into this portal thing, or a temporary juco or both. Maybe that was the Universe or God's plan all along for him. Not to go the easy route. Things are rarely easy. Of course there are the gifted athletes, the "Freaks" as I call them. They will make all the teams no matter what. It is the other 90-95% that have to have it in them ..to work hard.... to have it in their heart..to overcome adversity.
I just wanted to put this out for all the players and parents who are in HS right now and looking for schools.
You need to ask yourself.. "Is baseball the only reason I am going to this school"? If your answer is mostly yes then maybe it might not be the correct fit.
best of luck to all of you. Have a great weekend
Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. - Michael Jordan
Thank you for sharing what I’m sure is a deeply emotional time for your family. I just read your post to my 16yr old as we sat down to make his initial list of schools. You can make a square peg fit in a round hole. But it takes an immense amount of “grinding” and sometimes alters the integrity of the peg. Wishing your son luck in finding his path and, above all else, happiness.
thank you so much for that We really appreciate it
The square peg analogy is pretty spot on...
Best wishes for your son and his baseball career. Enjoy all the HS games ,Travel games, Tournaments and college visits. they are all special in their own way.
adbono posted:fishnsail posted:I just wanted to post an update as maybe this can help other players or parents or both.
We visited our Freshman Son last week at school. We were quite happy to see him. He is a super good kid that everyone likes..A real good Egg.. The previous few weeks he has been doing well in Academics ,good at getting on with a new busy routine and making friends and doing Ok in baseball. What does OK mean? It's probably Borderline at best as you they have 53 kids fighting for 35 roster spots and 27 travel spots with about 15-18 JUCO transfers...on a mid D1
When we visited him you could tell he was off. His mind was on his girlfriend who is at another school far away(who also visited him a few weeks earlier). He seemed nervous and worried about his "making the team" and was often focused on his phone rather than us or the task at hand. He didn't seem himself. He was focused on how he doesnt like the area where the school is and the town its in and looking at all the negative side instead of the positive side.
And there are always positive sides. He is healthy, He is smart, He is Free.. I can go on and on.
It is true that the only reason he picked this school was for baseball and the coaches and he would of never went there if it wasnt for that. I just want to highlight that. He seemed like he would be "loved" there and he has some ties to the staff but , in the end, he probably would of stayed more local if he had a better deal closer to home and "if" he knew there would be almost 60 kids at the start of fall ball..
We saw him pitch while we were there where he did well for 2 innings and then "not so well" in the third. Same thing happened this week. 2 good innings and roughed up in the 3rd.
He looked off to me on the mound. After a great dominant summer + working out heavy for the first time we thought he would have a great fall . Instead it appeared he was a bit lost and not smooth. Command was off. etc.. He isn't hurt so we can rule that out.
maybe its the workouts, maybe its eating 5k cals a day to put on weight , maybe it is his girlfriend, maybe its being homesick, maybe it is a combo of all of the above.
When we left we really tried to accent the positive and good things but realized that a Plan B or C may have to be implemented.
maybe it wasn't the right fit in the first place. maybe it still is. Maybe in the next 2 weeks he will turn it around and find himself.
Adversity is a strength builder. Happiness is key.
So that is where he is right now. It is tough for us and tougher for him I am sure. I know that if he gets redshirted he probably will not stay . It may be time to start looking into this portal thing, or a temporary juco or both. Maybe that was the Universe or God's plan all along for him. Not to go the easy route. Things are rarely easy. Of course there are the gifted athletes, the "Freaks" as I call them. They will make all the teams no matter what. It is the other 90-95% that have to have it in them ..to work hard.... to have it in their heart..to overcome adversity.
I just wanted to put this out for all the players and parents who are in HS right now and looking for schools.
You need to ask yourself.. "Is baseball the only reason I am going to this school"? If your answer is mostly yes then maybe it might not be the correct fit.
best of luck to all of you. Have a great weekend
Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. - Michael Jordan
I’m curious to know if a fall roster is posted on the baseball website of the school your son is attending. If so, does it show 53 players. I can’t imagine that they are making that information available to the public.
There wasn't a fall roster posted on the team site. Everyone was pretty blind sided by it including all the upper classman already on the team. Started out close to 60 players. We heard last year they were in the mid 40's(which is still a lot) and we kind of got the inkling on PG and twitter when we saw all these commits. What we didn't anticipate was the very large amount of transfers. The plus side of this is that everyone had the opportunity to earn a spot this year. There was maybe 1 or 2 guarantees. If you produce , you are playing -no matter if you are a freshman or senior.
Re: the girlfriend
Girls are like curveballs. They alter focus and mess with your mind. The odds of going away to college for four years and maintaining a solid relationship with a girlfriend residing far way is slim to none. Even without the distance people change a lot from eighteen to twenty-two.
RJM posted:Re: the girlfriend
Girls are like curveballs. They alter focus and mess with your mind. The odds of going away to college for four years and maintaining a solid relationship with a girlfriend residing far way is slim to none. Even without the distance people change a lot from eighteen to twenty-two.
Girlfriends are undefeated. They have ended many a baseball career.
I know and know of too many guys from my generation and kids from my son’s generation who left college because they missed their girlfriend’s freshman year. Now home at the local college they broke up with the girl by the end of the year.
Then there’s a guy who heads for college freshman year who expects his incredibly popular senior in high school girlfriend to sit home every weekend pining for him and counting the days until Christmas break.
Fishnsail, your story is a cautionary tale for recruiting. There are many on this site, long-time posters don't seem particularly surprised by it, but new-ish people (like me) are probably shocked. I'm following several of my son's D1 friends, most of whom are on fall rosters of over 40 (although nothing like 53). I am concerned for some of them (fall ball playing time, as per another thread); I've realized that I have no idea whether any of them is on athletic scholarship or not (not something people talk about). Presumably if a program is fully-funded, only 27 could have scholarships, that would mean your son's school persuaded more than 30 players to walk on. That is pretty outrageous.
anotherparent posted:Fishnsail, your story is a cautionary tale for recruiting. There are many on this site, long-time posters don't seem particularly surprised by it, but new-ish people (like me) are probably shocked. I'm following several of my son's D1 friends, most of whom are on fall rosters of over 40 (although nothing like 53). I am concerned for some of them (fall ball playing time, as per another thread); I've realized that I have no idea whether any of them is on athletic scholarship or not (not something people talk about). Presumably if a program is fully-funded, only 27 could have scholarships, that would mean your son's school persuaded more than 30 players to walk on. That is pretty outrageous.
thank you . Yes we are a bit concerned. The not knowing and being on the edge part is a big ordeal for many of the kids, mine included. While you try to visualize going to this school for the duration ,it can be a bit unsettling that your direction can change in a blink. But isnt that how life is?
It is how we deal with the adversity ,challenge and change that hopefully makes us a stronger person.
Of course, at the same time , we hope that he feels like he has a secure home.
I try to imagine myself in everyday life , if my current work or home situation was in limbo.
How would we handle it? and we are much older and more mature with experience.
Put that pressure on a 18 yr old and I am sure that it can be a cause of reflection and second guessing. Combine that with many new responsibilities.
Sink or swim... eventually they all swim..
The wild card in D1 recruiting classes has historically been the number of JuCo transfers. Until recently those numbers weren’t tracked very well. Last year a young guy named Noah Sharp started publishing the JuCo Baseball Blog (JBB). There is a lot of useful info on his site & he does a pretty good job promoting and tracking JuCo baseball - including keeping up with commitments & recruiting classes. In June 2019 he complied a list of the top recruiting classes for JuCo players and it showed the number of players coming in to these 4 year schools for fall 2019. Here are some of the worst offenders: U La La : 11. Akron : 23. TCU : 10. W Ky : 10. New Mexico: 18. Middle Tenn : 20 S Alabama: 12. Ark-LR : 12. Abilene Christian: 13. Lamar : 12. SFA : 10. The thing they have in common is that they almost all mid-majors. Mid-majors love JuCo guys. They are tough and they are proven - and your 18 yr old freshman is very rarely gonna take playing time away from them. I had a conversation with a long time MLB scout yesterday who told me he tells every kid that isn’t draftable to go to Junior College. I tell kids the same thing - because it’s a more likely path to success. The problem is that not enough people listen.
PS : comments above apply to players aspiring to play D1 & D2 baseball. D3 is a different deal entirely as JuCo transfers have minimal impact on most rosters.
I don't think 53 is that far off in today's world. Most D1's have 45 plus which WE don't seem to grasp. I hear all the why would a coach bring in 45 players when he can only keep 35 players. Because they can. They have to make sure they have 35 plus some in reserve. The guy who brings in 35 has injuries and guys quit and leave for other reasons and he ends up with 30.
On the girls issue. I get amazed at the parents who almost push their high schoolers to have a girlfriend. Mine had several girls he liked his senior year and into summer but refused to have a girlfriend because he knew he was going away for college and would not be home until Thanksgiving which has only changed by 1 weekend. WE kept reminding him it is okay to date but don't get serious because those long distance relationships normally don't work.
I will also add one of the benefits for my son is knowing players that are at the school and coming in. He had relationships with players and non-athletes before he arrived. I think that is a huge part is knowing people. It helps take away from the lonely/homesick aspect. It takes a special kind of kid who can go hours away from home and not know anyone at the campus.
Keep us posted FishnSail with how your son is doing. I will offer the perspective of a dad whose kid redshirted and thus far has survived. Some programs use the RS program as a means to develop talent, and with some kids to get stronger, particularly those who come in young (mine was 17). Others use the RS year as a way to help players switch positions (mine went from C to RHP), and of course there are the legitimate injury issues that arise as well. And at the high academic schools that have a hard time finding transfers that meet the admissions requirements, the RS year can help a kid make all of the adjustments of the academic demands before worrying about traveling with the team (RS will still have a heavy time commitment for weights, running, BP, bullpens, etc.).
The "proof is in the pudding" as the saying goes, so you should be able to evaluate the team roster to see how many kids have RS and how many have stayed with the program for multiple years. If there are kids playing who have the R next to the class level, you can go back and see if they RS at that school. So before your son definitively determines that he will not stay if the coach asks him to RS, be sure he considers what the coach's practice has been in the past and if any RS have gotten chances to play in later years.
"So before your son definitively determines that he will not stay if the coach asks him to RS, be sure he considers what the coach's practice has been in the past and if any RS have gotten chances to play in later years."
New to this. A player can tell a coaching staff that they have a commitment to that they will not stay? they can do somewhere else?
You also need to ask what he will get to do as a RS. Some are on an island and others are allowed to do things with team. It is very hard if you have to do everything on your own. Just need to ask.
PitchingFan posted:I don't think 53 is that far off in today's world. Most D1's have 45 plus which WE don't seem to grasp. I hear all the why would a coach bring in 45 players when he can only keep 35 players. Because they can. They have to make sure they have 35 plus some in reserve. The guy who brings in 35 has injuries and guys quit and leave for other reasons and he ends up with 30.
On the girls issue. I get amazed at the parents who almost push their high schoolers to have a girlfriend. Mine had several girls he liked his senior year and into summer but refused to have a girlfriend because he knew he was going away for college and would not be home until Thanksgiving which has only changed by 1 weekend. WE kept reminding him it is okay to date but don't get serious because those long distance relationships normally don't work.
I will also add one of the benefits for my son is knowing players that are at the school and coming in. He had relationships with players and non-athletes before he arrived. I think that is a huge part is knowing people. It helps take away from the lonely/homesick aspect. It takes a special kind of kid who can go hours away from home and not know anyone at the campus.
I agree with all you said - except 53 not being excessive. If you had to establish a norm for fall roster I would put it at 45. I think 53 is ridiculous. JMO
In fairness to Akron on that list, that's a brand new D1 program. It was shut down after 2015 and brought back. I'm not sure what else anyone would expect Sabo to do to be competitive right away. I'm guessing that's an outlier.
uncoach posted:In fairness to Akron on that list, that's a brand new D1 program. It was shut down after 2015 and brought back. I'm not sure what else anyone would expect Sabo to do to be competitive right away. I'm guessing that's an outlier.
Yes, it’s an outlier on that list for sure. If I was Sabo I would have done the same thing. Since we are clarifying, ACU cleaned house and brought in 30 new players out of the 38 that are in fall camp so special circumstances apply there also.
adbono posted:PitchingFan posted:I don't think 53 is that far off in today's world. Most D1's have 45 plus which WE don't seem to grasp. I hear all the why would a coach bring in 45 players when he can only keep 35 players. Because they can. They have to make sure they have 35 plus some in reserve. The guy who brings in 35 has injuries and guys quit and leave for other reasons and he ends up with 30.
On the girls issue. I get amazed at the parents who almost push their high schoolers to have a girlfriend. Mine had several girls he liked his senior year and into summer but refused to have a girlfriend because he knew he was going away for college and would not be home until Thanksgiving which has only changed by 1 weekend. WE kept reminding him it is okay to date but don't get serious because those long distance relationships normally don't work.
I will also add one of the benefits for my son is knowing players that are at the school and coming in. He had relationships with players and non-athletes before he arrived. I think that is a huge part is knowing people. It helps take away from the lonely/homesick aspect. It takes a special kind of kid who can go hours away from home and not know anyone at the campus.
I agree with all you said - except 53 not being excessive. If you had to establish a norm for fall roster I would put it at 45. I think 53 is ridiculous. JMO
Let me clarify. 53 is not ridiculous as the norm but I think it is too many. I think it should be around 40-45. Unless there are extenuating circumstances. I know why the do it but I don't know that I agree with the mentality. It think it depends on how many walk-ons you are allowing in the fall to participate all fall. I am more agreeing with guys who give a large number of walk-ons a chance as long as they are honest with them and tell them upfront that there are X number of walk-ons competing for X number of positions. I think there are still guys who will give it a chance at a P5 to get that chance. But I don't think most people do the work or want to know the answers. They just assume if they are allowed to participate in fall then they will be there in the spring. And then their hearts get broken and they say why didn't the coach tell us this. It is our job as parents and players to know the playing field at each school we are considering. I know some schools will not bring in more than 38 players in the fall. You are pretty much guaranteed a roster position in the spring if invited to fall.Those are the rare ones.
PitchingFan posted:adbono posted:PitchingFan posted:I don't think 53 is that far off in today's world. Most D1's have 45 plus which WE don't seem to grasp. I hear all the why would a coach bring in 45 players when he can only keep 35 players. Because they can. They have to make sure they have 35 plus some in reserve. The guy who brings in 35 has injuries and guys quit and leave for other reasons and he ends up with 30.
On the girls issue. I get amazed at the parents who almost push their high schoolers to have a girlfriend. Mine had several girls he liked his senior year and into summer but refused to have a girlfriend because he knew he was going away for college and would not be home until Thanksgiving which has only changed by 1 weekend. WE kept reminding him it is okay to date but don't get serious because those long distance relationships normally don't work.
I will also add one of the benefits for my son is knowing players that are at the school and coming in. He had relationships with players and non-athletes before he arrived. I think that is a huge part is knowing people. It helps take away from the lonely/homesick aspect. It takes a special kind of kid who can go hours away from home and not know anyone at the campus.
I agree with all you said - except 53 not being excessive. If you had to establish a norm for fall roster I would put it at 45. I think 53 is ridiculous. JMO
Let me clarify. 53 is not ridiculous as the norm but I think it is too many. I think it should be around 40-45. Unless there are extenuating circumstances. I know why the do it but I don't know that I agree with the mentality. It think it depends on how many walk-ons you are allowing in the fall to participate all fall. I am more agreeing with guys who give a large number of walk-ons a chance as long as they are honest with them and tell them upfront that there are X number of walk-ons competing for X number of positions. I think there are still guys who will give it a chance at a P5 to get that chance. But I don't think most people do the work or want to know the answers. They just assume if they are allowed to participate in fall then they will be there in the spring. And then their hearts get broken and they say why didn't the coach tell us this. It is our job as parents and players to know the playing field at each school we are considering. I know some schools will not bring in more than 38 players in the fall. You are pretty much guaranteed a roster position in the spring if invited to fall.Those are the rare ones.
Agree that those are the rare ones, but those are the ones you need to find !
53 is ridiculous if the coach is not sharing that detail with recruits, period! Not sure why this is even being debated.
As for JUCO option, I will share another perspective. My son had multiple offers to play for top JUCO programs while also being recruited to play for several P5 D1 programs. We were told by multiple people that the smart choice was to go JUCO so that he could continue to develop and be a better fit for those D1 programs. The person we trusted most provided a completely different perspective which was "the JUCO's will be there if this does not work out." I understand that it is not ideal to go thru the process of switching schools but that is something that players/parents should determine based on their individual circumstances. Obviously there are a lot of freshmen who choose the 4-year option and find it a good fit while others get their walking papers and end up attending a JUCO any way.
Just my 2 cents.
