How will you teach hitting?

It's

Did you see my post about the Mets pitcher?

Linear,

Yes. I remember Berenyi. I think he did most of his pitching for the Reds though. Didnt see alot of him when he was with my Metsies.

That's right. Mostly with the Reds but traded to the Mets, then he hurt his arm. I think it was the '86 team.

Anyway, were you a Mets fan then? What was the local "scoop" on him? Keith Hernandez, in his book "If At First" was kind to him......said he was one of the hardest throwers he'd seen....or something like that.

He had a career of wildness (would walk too many) but was rarely hit hard. Probably an under .500 record. One year he had like 19 losses with the Reds. Believe it or not, that's pretty good. They don't keep running you out there to get 19 of em if they don't like you.

Linear,

I was a Mets fan at birth. LOL

Began my true devotion in the early 1960's.

I really didnt see him pitch much when he was with the Mets. I remember him as having a somewhat stocky build. But not really much more than that.

He was 6'4" or 6'5" but yeah a thick build.

Could really bring it.

It just dawned on me. This topic has over 12,700 views. (Hopefully that isnt by just 7 or 8 people. LOL)

Usually a very contentious topic - but I have to say - all things considered - the discussion is actually bordering on the edges of civility - with alot of good thoughts coming from alot of different angles.

JMHO - but it is good to see.

"Agreed that the core muscles help make the hands quicker as they stay "connected" to the core. This still doesn't explain how to get those hands "set" or ready to work in conjunction with the core."

CoachB25, not sure what you're calling "core"....The hands and arms connect to the shoulders.......This is done by scapula loading.....Locks in the "box" which is formed by the hands and arms......This is the upper body load.......

Coach B25

Pujols said..hand location was important in the set up.

I had defined our hand set up as stacked bottom hand nearly under top.. out from rear collar bone.

Pujols said he felt that the hands stayed there through stride initiation. he said they stayed in the arm pit

I feel the lead elbow is close to chest and rear elbow elevated and internally rotated. I feel the top hand over and the bat tippng a bit. You can split the helmet and have a little less stacked hands. You should try the hammer lock drill. Same set up but tip the bat to 2B. Just take a regular swing and you will feel the rear hip coil to facilitate the bat path. Great drill for getting the barrel out oppo and great drill for feeling the hip coil. If you do that and "maintain the box through half the rotation" to use theri cue..you will like what you feel IF YOU ARE AS BAD AS OUR GUYS...and your not

Scap loading the rear is very hard if the lead doesn't concurrently "slot down/ in close'.LEAVING THE LEAD ELBOW UP WILL RESTRICT THE REAR FROM INTERNALLY ROTATING FOR MANY GUYS. IT IS THE REASON SCAP LOAD ATTEMPTS CAN FAIL.

I have my guys adopt a spine angle/posture and get the feeling that the lead elbow is just hanging straight down from the shoulder socket lose. Some of them move the rear elbow in and up in the waiting position some dynamically.

I was told that the ***** cue is "maintain the box through half the rotation" not a bad teaching cue and a true statement. Our cue was reverse the relative elbow positions maintaining bent elbows...same result when I watched it. The bat plane transition IMO helps maintain this box and get power as the arm movement occurs with bent elbows

To me they are the same action. I just heard there version today. They slipped out some good info by mistake I guess. There will be a reprimand...especially now with money at stake

"maintain the box through half of the rotation" This sounds correct because it helps load up larger muscle groups which create whip-like motion. This generates great power as well as speed because you will be hitting against a firm/rigid frontside when the other half of the rotation is completed.
Good Stuff/Keep it coming,
Shep

Maybe I missed something... I asked Linear if Pujols was talking about his hands at setup or contact or overall in the swing. I didn't hear an answer, but swingbuster mentioned a couple of "Pujols saids" regarding the set up and stride initiation. Did I miss something?

I've talked to Albert before and I feel fairly certain he did not use the exact words "stride initiation".

It seems to me that stride initiation could be understood as the initial half rotation performed by lower body while maintaining box of upper body. Is this the same terminology?

Shep

quote:

Originally posted by Linear:

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Linear,

A question – Do you know for sure that Pujols was talking about the STARTING position of his hands? Is it possible he was referring to where his hands are at contact?...

There is no question he was talking about his starting point....the point he wants the hands in order to launch.

Also, in a good swing at a good pitch the hands don't move much at all through contact.

A swing at a not so good pitch, or if you're fooled, is another story. That is the final "adjustor" that the hitter has. If you've used up this "adjustor" to get to a good pitch, you won't be around long.

First, you won't have enough batspeed.

Second, you won't be able to make adjustments.

The bat gets to the balls location, in a good swing, with posture adjustments.

You missed something PG.

Question: Do you feel like contact occurs before lower half rotation or after complete rotation?

Shep

I've given you five minutes so I will answer for you. This will probably save me a lot of posts anyway-lol

Contact will not occur at either time. The ball should make contact after initial first half-rotation which was not one of the possible answers given in question.

Shep

It took you 6 minutes to type that?

Alright already, lets talk about hitting not typing. Back to point of contact. Any takers on this half rotation theory I have proposed.

Shep

Rosie looks like he is almost finished with lower half rotation at contact. At least 90% finished IMO.

Where's the arm action in that swing?

Linear - one question at a time. Lets get to the bottom of Shep's question/answer first - before we move on to another 36 pages of arm action stuff.

See with my own eyes your point.

I'll meet you halfway>how about contact at 3/4 completion of bottom half rotation?

Some of the rotation has to be incomplete because the inertia and force behind the actual batspeed coming forward will cause further bottom half rotation in follow-through.

Shep

Shep,

You say 3/4 (75%) - I say 90% - lets split the difference and call it 82.5%

bbscout,

But that is just Rosie.

Would be interesting to see a few others.

BB,

I thought it sounded good anyway-LOL

Shep

Its,

I thought it sounded good anyway but you have a taker at 82.5.

Shep

Forum business is good.

Normally - I would take the split and call it a day.

But now that bbscout came in with a 98% - I am not so sure.

I may be leaving something on the table.
My offer is withdrawn. LOL



Linear - Ironic that we are talking numbers/odds and percentages - and Rosie is the hitter in question. LOL

bbscout,

Thanks for the clips - Robinson even further along than Rosie and Williams about the same. IMO.

uh oh, Shep's in trouble...

Okay, it seems that a hitter hitting off a firm rigid front side as Rosie does in his clip would almost have to be finished with his lower rotational turn as BB so graciously points out, as well as Frank and Billy. It must be my eyes are mistaken and playing tricks because of the momentum in the follow through and BB Doug just might be right after-all.

Darn Its, we had him for a minute, why did you withdraw? LOL

Shep

Okay already, you win-quit rubbing it in-LOL

Shep

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:

Darn Its, we had him for a minute, why did you withdraw?LOL

Shep

Shep,

I am opinionated, I am curious (and many others would add additional adjectives in there as well- LOL) - but I am not blind or stupid. LOL

Offer is offically withdrawn.

bbscout - he seems like a rather large baby.

Actually - very large.

Pretty darn good swing that little mackster has.

Is he still playing college or did he sign? I do remember several years ago when he received baseball scholarship.

What year is he now?

Shep

I hope and will pray he will get a chance.

Is that clip of your son the same one on your avatar?

Sorry I've been away so long. It seems like I've missed so much.

Had to take some time away from everything for a while. You know what I mean? Glad to be back though.

Shep

Oh by the way, I agreed with something else you posted earlier on another thread-LOL

Shep

The most overlooked area in hitting is correct timing - or to say it another way "timing the pitcher". Most batters are late in their swing. I do not care how good your swing mechanics are - if you are late getting your front foot down - you will have a hard time hitting the ball. Again timing is a very critical part of hitting that is overlooked.

Another fine point is to always keep the top hand palm facing the pitcher - even on the load. This will help you to be shorter to the ball.

Another fine point is to always keep the knob of the bat (when pulling it down) inside the plate.

Again correct and good timing will determine alot of your success. Err on being early if in doubt.

quote:

Originally posted by PASSION:
always keep the top hand palm facing the pitcher - even on the load.

Always? Where is it at contact? How does it get there?

quote:

Originally posted by PASSION:
Another fine point is to always keep the knob of the bat (when pulling it down) inside the plate.

I've never seen it any other place. Good hitter or bad hitter.

quote:

Originally posted by PASSION:
Err on being early if in doubt.

You will never hit your potential if you're afraid to be late.

Afraid of being late leads to always starting early. Very poor suggestion.

quote:

Originally posted by PASSION:
if you are late getting your front foot down -

I know of no good hitter that thinks about when his front foot gets down.

I know many who load/unload their center properly which takes care of the foot for them.

quote:

Originally posted by bbscout:
Rich, you were just waiting in the wings. Like shooting ducks in a pond.

I'll take on anyone but you.

Unless you want to talk hands.

Just kidding....been there....done that.