I found out last night that John is no longer traveling to away games. On the last road trip this team chose to leave 3 players behind and John was one of them. As if this Big12 team needs to cut a few corners?!? Really? No, this was a message sent IMO. At this point I’m pretty sure I know where this is headed.
@adbono posted:I found out last night that John is no longer traveling to away games. On the last road trip this team chose to leave 3 players behind and John was one of them. As if this Big12 team needs to cut a few corners?!? Really? No, this was a message sent IMO. At this point I’m pretty sure I know where this is headed.
You are 100% correct. It is a tactic used to get kids to leave. Here is what not traveling looks like at our P5 program.
6am lift on Thurs, Fri, Sat, and Sunday. You check in with the lift coach at the facility so they know you went. You also go on Tues/Wed if there is a road midweek game. Lift from 6-8.
After the lift you have a 3.5 hour practice from 10:30 am to 1. No coaches just the players who are not traveling and the injured guys. Tell me how 8 kids can practice for almost four hours?
You then go to the facility where you check in again with your badge and you have to sit and watch the game(s) taking notes/charting for probably another 3.5 hours. 8 if it's a double header.
Do this for 16 weeks straight and tell me if you'd want to stay for another year?
Here is the latest update. Read carefully if you are one of the people that believes every player gets coached and all freshmen get developmental instruction.
Last night John had a long conversation with my pitching coaching partner (Mike). Being concerned about John’s mental state, Mike asked a lot of questions. What he learned was that John is on his own. No coaches are watching his bullpens. Nobody is taking video of them either (unless he can get a teammate to do it) so there is no video analysis from any coaches. So far, according to Mike, John is using this experience as motivation. But he also is feeling very defeated. This is a tough way to learn a tough lesson. And you would hope that this experience will lead to John and his parents making a better decision about what to do next. You would hope.
@adbono posted:Here is the latest update. Read carefully if you are one of the people that believes every player gets coached and all freshmen get developmental instruction.
Last night John had a long conversation with my pitching coaching partner (Mike). Being concerned about John’s mental state, Mike asked a lot of questions. What he learned was that John is on his own. No coaches are watching his bullpens. Nobody is taking video of them either (unless he can get a teammate to do it) so there is no video analysis from any coaches. So far, according to Mike, John is using this experience as motivation. But he also is feeling very defeated. This is a tough way to learn a tough lesson. And you would hope that this experience will lead to John and his parents making a better decision about what to do next. You would hope.
Good luck to the young man.
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:Good luck to the young man.
Often your luck is a bi-product of your decisions
Adbono;
It maybe very important to the young man to have a successful College Summer League experience. What do you think? Maybe on the West Coast.
Bob
@Consultant posted:Adbono;
It maybe very important to the young man to have a successful College Summer League experience. What do you think? Maybe on the West Coast.
Bob
You are right, Bob. As usual. That would be the best thing John could do this summer based on current circumstances. But John’s dad is calling the shots and is apparently leaning on an exec at VTool for advice. So he obviously hasn’t learned who to listen to and who to tune out. This development adds to the probability that things could get worse for John instead of better. So far it’s been a blueprint for what not to do.
So I have a kid playing college ball. As such I'll add my .02.
There is no development in college baseball, unless you consider development to consist of being put into a game and expected to perform. Coaches are paid to win games, period. To that ends nor is there any loyalty. That said I have seen DI programs that work with JUCO's, sending down a player they see potential in understanding he may come back later.
My son got the whole "you can stay but you won't play" speech from a B10 school working around taking his scholarship away. Found a mid-tier DI closer to home and after Covid and a year lost to TJ got on the field last year. Missed the first third of the season to injury but still ended up starting left field and being close to the team leaders in runs scored, RBI's, blah, blah, blah. To the point that while being OK with call it quits, they asked him to come back for a 6th year (covid, injury red shirt). FF to this spring and they got a JUCO All American OF'er and they proceeded to give him start after start even though the kid insisted he did no better in practice leading up to the season. The kid has now earned his spot back and all is well. Moral of the story, your kid is a piece of meat, nothing more.
DAD:
Define the word "development".
For 35 years, I have observed the Coaches at SRJC in Santa Rosa and the players, who become professional or advance to a 4 year College have gained knowledge and experience from their 2 years at SRJC.
During this time I coached at SSU & the Cubs N_ Calif. Scout Teams. We played [Sac City] and other JC with our HS players.
Bob
@somebaseballdad. Man, these stories are something else. My kids are never going pro and I care much more about academics. So I don't really care what division they play (other than athletic money sounds good to me). D1 sounds like a great experience for a few and turmoil for many. My 2023 committed to one of the few HA D2s out there in his jr year fall. He then went completely off in the spring HS season winning several awards/1st all state,etc. People started pumping him up, suggesting he decommit and shoot for a D1. I love the fact he is confident but I had to repetitively talk him down and stress long term goals (and repeat stories from here).
The 2025 is now the project. I'm worried his eyes are bigger than his fastball.
@SomeBaseballDad posted:So I have a kid playing college ball. As such I'll add my .02.
There is no development in college baseball, unless you consider development to consist of being put into a game and expected to perform. Coaches are paid to win games, period. To that ends nor is there any loyalty. That said I have seen DI programs that work with JUCO's, sending down a player they see potential in understanding he may come back later.
..............................
There is no development in college baseball? Huh? 100% disagree.
Development is a two way street. The player has to want to learn, and the coach has to be willing to teach. With a staff of 3-4 coaches and a team of 30-35 players I think the player has to initiate their own development. In my work, my team comes up with their own development plan to further their careers. We talk about the development plan and I assist them when asked. Its the same thing.
Stength & conditioning, nutrition, pitching & fielding practice with his position coach 5 days a week, looking at practice and game film, and the opportunity to play college summer baseball. My son didn't exactly play for a D1 baseball powerhouse, but the skills development and opportunities were there for the learning. The position coaches worked hard. He learned new pitches, pitching strategies and approaches as well as stopping the running game. He learned a great pickoff move in college, and word travels fast in a conference of 8 teams. A lot of what he learned he initiated, and the coaches helped him.
Just my experience.
@fenwaysouth, people used to wear suits to work everyday too. A lot has changed in college baseball since your son played. College baseball is now big business. It didn’t used to be. Due to Covid there are now athletes playing 6 years of college baseball. That’s never been the case before. There is an over supply of players like never before too. Add the impact of the transfer portal and NIL and you have chaos. Many top programs (especially D1s) don’t want to spend 2 years developing a freshman that may or may not work out when, for the same scholarship dollars, they can get 2 proven players out of the transfer portal. It’s both less risk and a better ROI. It’s a business decision. It’s also easier and you get your return sooner. It’s an easier, more efficient business model. In theory and for right now. But a lot of schools have adopted it. I know this because, not only do I see it happening with my own eyes, more than a few D1 coaches have told me that this is what they are doing. Comparing development in the workplace to development in college baseball is a reach at best. You are talking about adults vs 18 yr old kids. But you wouldn’t see college players signing up for Tread Athletics at $500/mo if they were being developed at their schools. I’m glad that your son had a good experience. It’s the kid that everyone hopes for. But right now that experience only exists for a fraction of college players. And what makes up that fraction are the players that have position coaches that actively teach the game. Even then those position coaches may only be helping the players that are on the field contributing. There would not be so many posters that currently have sons playing college baseball talking about the lack of development if it wasn’t a real issue. They problem with this issue, as with many others, is that if your player didn’t experience it then it’s sometimes hard to believe. But there is a reason that so many Drivelines, Treads, etc have popped up over the last 10 years. And the reason is that there is a huge appetite for development that isn’t being satisfied in college baseball. Right now is a great time to be one of the very best players in college baseball. It’s a terrible time to be anything less than that.
And I will add this as an afterthought. Even if you do have a position coach that is actively trying to teach and develop players there is a possibility that he isn’t very good at it. His direction may be more hurtful than helpful. What if a PC decides that your son will be the subject of his sidearm experiment and makes him change his arm slot. And then that doesn’t work out and your player has to change back. Now let’s mention the inevitable injury that occurred somewhere in that process. Sound crazy? It does to me but it goes on a lot because it’s fashionable for every PC to have a sidearm thrower on their staff. So they try to create one. And in doing so often wreck a kid’s career. That’s just one example.
@adbono posted:@fenwaysouth, people used to wear suits to work everyday too. A lot has changed in college baseball since your son played. College baseball is now big business. It didn’t used to be. Due to Covid there are now athletes playing 6 years of college baseball. That’s never been the case before. There is an over supply of players like never before too. Add the impact of the transfer portal and NIL and you have chaos. Many top programs (especially D1s) don’t want to spend 2 years developing a freshman that may or may not work out when, for the same scholarship dollars, they can get 2 proven players out of the transfer portal. It’s both less risk and a better ROI. It’s a business decision. It’s also easier and you get your return sooner. It’s an easier, more efficient business model. In theory and for right now. But a lot of schools have adopted it. I know this because, not only do I see it happening with my own eyes, more than a few D1 coaches have told me that this is what they are doing. Comparing development in the workplace to development in college baseball is a reach at best. You are talking about adults vs 18 yr old kids. But you wouldn’t see college players signing up for Tread Athletics at $500/mo if they were being developed at their schools. I’m glad that your son had a good experience. It’s the kid that everyone hopes for. But right now that experience only exists for a fraction of college players. And what makes up that fraction are the players that have position coaches that actively teach the game. Even then those position coaches may only be helping the players that are on the field contributing. There would not be so many posters that currently have sons playing college baseball talking about the lack of development if it wasn’t a real issue. They problem with this issue, as with many others, is that if your player didn’t experience it then it’s sometimes hard to believe. But there is a reason that so many Drivelines, Treads, etc have popped up over the last 10 years. And the reason is that there is a huge appetite for development that isn’t being satisfied in college baseball. Right now is a great time to be one of the very best players in college baseball. It’s a terrible time to be anything less than that.
Fair enough, you've convinced me somewhat. Yes, my son has been out for about 10 years. So this explanation makes sense to me given Covid 6-year NCAA rules. It's got to be a difficult pill to swallow if your son is playing college baseball (hopefully under some kind of scholly) and the parent/player is paying for the education, athletic opportunity, and then on top of that they're paying for Tread/DriveLine at $500/month because their coach can't spare the time or is unwilling to develop his own player. I can tell you without hesitation that if my son was in the position today, he would not have played college baseball for a handful of reasons. Essentially, the coach is acknowledging he'd rather spend the balance of his time recruiting JUCO players that have been previously trained by another coach than working with his current players. If this is the true state of college baseball this paints a pretty freaking sad and vastly different picture of college coaches than just a few years ago. I'll take your word on it @adbono
BTW....My Dad wore a suit to work! Not me! 
My son left college baseball last year. This wasn't his experience. He was a Sunday starter for about a month before COVID, came back post COVID as a sometimes starter, sometimes reliever, etc. He was coached. He had coaches at his bullpen's, reviewing video, texting with him when he was away from school on break or whatever. And yes, they also talked with him about whether something like driveline would be useful to him and they made recommendations on other resources he could consult. He had two different PCs during his time at Iowa, I think he still asks for their advice from time to time.
Part of it may be that the University of Iowa is going to struggle to recruit people to come here (other than Iowans) unless they show a serious track record of making players better. It also may be that we just got lucky. Either way, feel terrible for kids who don't encounter that support.
I don't know why people make it seem like 4 coaches for 35 players is a problem. It's not like they work a 9-5 and then go coach college baseball. It's what they do. Development is one of the job requirements along with recruiting players that they can develop.
It's a pretty sad commentary that it is normal for a pitcher to not have success and the coaching staff not actively working with the player to get some value out of him. Maybe the kid isn't a weekend starter, but maybe he can be by the time he's a junior. Maybe he isn't a closer, but he might be a guy who comes in and throws to two lefties, maybe he's long relief, maybe he's short relief. Wouldn't you want one of the guys you were invested in to succeed? I don't understand the seek help argument. If the PC can't see that velo is down, there are mechanical issues, can't alter prep work/throwing programs then I find that to be really pathetic.
One of mine is having a bit of a velo problem. Sometimes it's lower than it was in HS and when it's down he's getting hit more. I think it's a problem that he was told to go spend a month at driveline this summer in lieu of playing in a summer league. I think it's annoying that he has too many credits for any type of transfer to be worth it academically or financially. I think it's a problem that two freshman who struggled were told to leave and they've both been drafted since.
I get it - there are some cutting edge coaches who care about their kids and turn them into better players. I also understand that there are plenty of players who don't work hard, don't eat right, don't put in extra work and they can't be helped. But there is a meaty chunk of players in programs that are subject to the numbers game and it sucks that there are contributors who don't get the opportunity because it's too inconvenient for a coaching staff to *coach*
@adbono posted:@fenwaysouth, people used to wear suits to work everyday too. A lot has changed in college baseball since your son played. College baseball is now big business. It didn’t used to be. Due to Covid there are now athletes playing 6 years of college baseball. That’s never been the case before. There is an over supply of players like never before too. Add the impact of the transfer portal and NIL and you have chaos. Many top programs (especially D1s) don’t want to spend 2 years developing a freshman that may or may not work out when, for the same scholarship dollars, they can get 2 proven players out of the transfer portal. It’s both less risk and a better ROI. It’s a business decision. It’s also easier and you get your return sooner. It’s an easier, more efficient business model. In theory and for right now. But a lot of schools have adopted it. I know this because, not only do I see it happening with my own eyes, more than a few D1 coaches have told me that this is what they are doing. Comparing development in the workplace to development in college baseball is a reach at best. You are talking about adults vs 18 yr old kids. But you wouldn’t see college players signing up for Tread Athletics at $500/mo if they were being developed at their schools. I’m glad that your son had a good experience. It’s the kid that everyone hopes for. But right now that experience only exists for a fraction of college players. And what makes up that fraction are the players that have position coaches that actively teach the game. Even then those position coaches may only be helping the players that are on the field contributing. There would not be so many posters that currently have sons playing college baseball talking about the lack of development if it wasn’t a real issue. They problem with this issue, as with many others, is that if your player didn’t experience it then it’s sometimes hard to believe. But there is a reason that so many Drivelines, Treads, etc have popped up over the last 10 years. And the reason is that there is a huge appetite for development that isn’t being satisfied in college baseball. Right now is a great time to be one of the very best players in college baseball. It’s a terrible time to be anything less than that.
There are two conversations to be had regarding D1. There are those programs who are either competing for the CWS or believe they are. Then there's the rest of D1. An Ivy isn't going to load up on transfers and JuCo players. A lot of the rest of D1 aren't going to have the recruiting budget, facilities or access to NIL money to lure players and have high turnover. But, for P5s and a handful of other teams roster spots have become the Wild West. Even before recruiting became the Wild West about half of freshmen transferred from their first stop.
@fenwaysouth posted:There is no development in college baseball? Huh? 100% disagree.
Development is a two way street. The player has to want to learn, and the coach has to be willing to teach. With a staff of 3-4 coaches and a team of 30-35 players I think the player has to initiate their own development. In my work, my team comes up with their own development plan to further their careers. We talk about the development plan and I assist them when asked. Its the same thing.
Stength & conditioning, nutrition, pitching & fielding practice with his position coach 5 days a week, looking at practice and game film, and the opportunity to play college summer baseball. My son didn't exactly play for a D1 baseball powerhouse, but the skills development and opportunities were there for the learning. The position coaches worked hard. He learned new pitches, pitching strategies and approaches as well as stopping the running game. He learned a great pickoff move in college, and word travels fast in a conference of 8 teams. A lot of what he learned he initiated, and the coaches helped him.
Just my experience.
I agree with the above.
Coaching is teaching and achieving goals. It should include all that Fenway mentioned. The coach and staff have an obligation to help the player to achieve those goals. It can be achieved differently in different programs. As pointed out by Fenway, there are many involved in helping players to achieve their best results. We all know it takes a village to raise a child, same goes for athletes.
Sorry to repeat this story. It's about Florida's Wyatt Langford. He didn't play much as a freshman. He wasn't happy and decided the change had to come from within. He changed everything about himself, his diet, his workouts, his practices, his attitude. Hours in the cages, hours in the gym. Players that hold themselves to a higher standard, usually succeed. It's those that think they are owed more than they are getting usually don't succeed. There are those players who can blame the coaches all they want but I will bet that they have been given opportunities and tools to succeed but don't work as hard at becoming better when left on their own. It's always easy to blame someone else.
Back to Wyatt. He was recently injured while fouling a ball off of his groin and ruptured a testical. Required immediate surgery. Wasn't sure of prognosis and how long he had to rehab, was back in the game after 2 weeks. Can't keep a good man down! The best part, the team held it together while waiting for his return.
I just found out recently that quite a few hitters while son was in college, sought out better hitting instruction. One drafted first round. So this is not a new thing, it's been going on for years. There are many D1 programs that have their players evaluated by outside sources to see where the player is deficient. Goals are set to help the player improve. FAU evaluated players with the Cressey team. The athletic trainer is made aware of the needs and monitors the results. Again, it takes a village. A player cannot succeed unless he/ she is physically able to compete. There are training centers everywhere. Here in FL, you will find pros, college players, HS and youth players in the gym and all types of players in the cages.
IMO, if a parent wants to spend their money on additional training, that's their business. Coaches only have so much time allowed to work with players. After their allotted instruction, it's up to the player to follow through on what he needs to work on to improve. That's on them, not the coach. How many of your players work their butts off every chance they can?
Now about John. I want to know, has John done everything he can to improve his game, on his own? Sounds like Johns dad is involved. Fall and spring instruction are long over, time to stop blaming the staff and get to work.
@TPM, I believe that John has done all that he can to get better. I know it’s not always the case but with John I believe the school is the one at fault.
@adbono posted:And I will add this as an afterthought. Even if you do have a position coach that is actively trying to teach and develop players there is a possibility that he isn’t very good at it. His direction may be more hurtful than helpful. What if a PC decides that your son will be the subject of his sidearm experiment and makes him change his arm slot. And then that doesn’t work out and your player has to change back. Now let’s mention the inevitable injury that occurred somewhere in that process. Sound crazy? It does to me but it goes on a lot because it’s fashionable for every PC to have a sidearm thrower on their staff. So they try to create one. And in doing so often wreck a kid’s career. That’s just one example.
100%. We had 2 guys from our recruiting class turned into sidearmers. Both have dealt with injuries off and on. Although it was never mentioned to us, my son’s arm slot was changed the minute he stepped on campus. When it doesn’t work, you are left to figure it out. Happens with hitters too. Even when it’s not broke, sometimes they need to “fix” it.
@fenwaysouth posted:There is no development in college baseball? Huh? 100% disagree.
That's your prerogative.
The kid went as a two way. His freshman year the team had like 4-5 pitchers go down with injuries, so the staff pushed him into PO. I'm not going into detail but.. we picked this school based on the HC. The PC coach ended up being a problem. PO didn't work out, so sophomore year it was back to position player. Thing is he had lost a year seeing live pitching, so the start of the season he struggled and was benched. At the time he still had a very high level MLB scout working with him. In a conversation with him he stated that college coaches were under such pressure to win that they has no time to let a player dig himself out of a slump. To that point, if the team lost a couple, three, four games in a row the forums would fill up with "fire the coach/lets go a different direction" threads.
BTW, the first batter the kid faced right out of HS was Nick Madrigal.
For those who read this and don't know the people involved, fenway's son went to an Ivy League school, most of the other people are posting about experiences at P5 schools. It's kind of like apples and oranges.
There are many people who would like to coach baseball. Are most of them no good at development? Are the ones who are good scooped up by MLB/MiLB? Or earning more money working for Driveline or Tread?
In other words, is the problem (a) there aren't enough pitching coaches at the college level who are capable of developing their players, (b) most coaches have to do too many other things and don't have time to develop their players, or (c) most coaches don't see the need to try to develop their players because they can easily bring in transfers who have been developed by someone else?
And, how do these juco and lower-level schools' coaches have more skills or more time to develop their players than the P5 coaches?
It’s extremely difficult to be an impact player at the college level as a freshman, regardless of the coaching. My son was not an impact freshman at the Juco level.
IMO the combination of relationships with the coaching staff, ability, execution, perceived ceiling, work ethic, timing and luck all play into every players’ college opportunity. I’ve seen players at the Juco level that didn’t get opportunity, change school, and thrive. I watched a physically dominant freshman get no playing time at a P5 school, transfer to a Juco and get drafted in the 1st round.
Some coaches add a lot of value to some players and none to others. I know my son values what he learned from working his pitching coach at the D1 level.
I’m a I’ll put gas in the car, you need to drive parent and my son has owned his development choices since HS. I’d have liked him to play college summer ball, but he always chose to train. He felt he needed to supplement his college coaching in the offseason to be his best (now it’s his job, and he still trains the entire offseason).
This is a great thread because it has evolved into firsthand stories of college experience. No two are the same and there is no blueprint. Just real life examples of what can happen.
@JucoDad posted:It’s extremely difficult to be an impact player at the college level as a freshman, regardless of the coaching. My son was not an impact freshman at the Juco level.
IMO the combination of relationships with the coaching staff, ability, execution, perceived ceiling, work ethic, timing and luck all play into every players’ college opportunity. I’ve seen players at the Juco level that didn’t get opportunity, change school, and thrive. I watched a physically dominant freshman get no playing time at a P5 school, transfer to a Juco and get drafted in the 1st round.
Some coaches add a lot of value to some players and none to others. I know my son values what he learned from working his pitching coach at the D1 level.
I’m a I’ll put gas in the car, you need to drive parent and my son has owned his development choices since HS. I’d have liked him to play college summer ball, but he always chose to train. He felt he needed to supplement his college coaching in the offseason to be his best (now it’s his job, and he still trains the entire offseason).
Refreshing post Jucodad.
Thank you!
I think it’s important to note than winning and developing are not always the same thing. Coaches that are highly paid, win. If you are lucky, they also care about the kids and develop them both as players and men. That is rare. MLB coaches manage. College is becoming more of a management gig with the portal and NIL. They (more and more) prefer you to develop elsewhere and they will “bring you up” when you are ready.
@baseballhs posted:I think it’s important to note than winning and developing are not always the same thing. Coaches that are highly paid, win. If you are lucky, they also care about the kids and develop them both as players and men. That is rare. MLB coaches manage. College is becoming more of a management gig with the portal and NIL. They (more and more) prefer you to develop elsewhere and they will “bring you up” when you are ready.
Very well said. This is the reality for most players.
adbono, baseballhs
I find it kind of shocking that the Big12 and Big10 have only 1 or 2 teams (combined) in the top 25 RPI. Does this have to do with the programs in those conferences lack of development, NLI $, use of the portal or that other teams are just working harder at getting better?
@anotherparent posted:For those who read this and don't know the people involved, fenway's son went to an Ivy League school, most of the other people are posting about experiences at P5 schools. It's kind of like apples and oranges.
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True, but I think the real difference is Covid and NCAA transfer policies that have thrown a monkey wrench in the development of a typical 4-5 year D1 baseball career outward to a 6 year baseball college baseball career including graduate transfers in some cases. This is the big development change that coaches are dealing with or not dealing with as the case may be. adbono did a pretty good job of convincing me this is at the heart of the development issue, and I believe it.
In the fast moving world of Information Technology this is known as the "build vs buy" continuum. College baseball coaches seem to adopted this mindset. I can "buy" talent easier, faster, quicker to compete than I can "build" which is less expensive but takes more time.
JMO.
@TPM posted:adbono, baseballhs
I find it kind of shocking that the Big12 and Big10 have only 1 or 2 teams (combined) in the top 25 RPI. Does this have to do with the programs in those conferences lack of development, NLI $, use of the portal or that other teams are just working harder at getting better?
Big10 is definitely the weakest P5, but the conference has been really down since COVID hit. UCLA/USC will make it a stronger conference. I think traveling for the first month of the season hurts a lot of these schools. Playing higher RPI teams after having limited outdoor work is not a recipe for success. Usually by the end of the season the programs at the top turn the early season struggles around and typically make nice runs in the tournament - typically 2 in finals of regionals each year.
I also think there are a few teams that are better than their RPI (TCU, Tech, Iowa) but that is neither here nor there.
Big 12 baseball will be interesting. A year or two ago adding Houston, Cincy, and UCF would have been the best possible way to offset Texas and Oklahoma leaving. Houston has been an interesting team this year - some really good wins with an average record. UCF has been down since starting red hot. I hope they stay competitive heading into the Big 12, they have solid baseball.
@fenwaysouth posted:True, but I think the real difference is Covid and NCAA transfer policies that have thrown a monkey wrench in the development of a typical 4-5 year D1 baseball career outward to a 6 year baseball college baseball career including graduate transfers in some cases. This is the big development change that coaches are dealing with or not dealing with as the case may be. adbono did a pretty good job of convincing me this is at the heart of the development issue, and I believe it.
In the fast moving world of Information Technology this is known as the "build vs buy" continuum. College baseball coaches seem to adopted this mindset. I can "buy" talent easier, faster, quicker to compete than I can "build" which is less expensive but takes more time.
JMO.
Well said. I will take issue with your last sentence however and I will explain why in a hypothetical example. Say a HS pitcher that would normally be recruited hard by good D1 programs believes he deserves a 50% scholarship. He believes this because every travel ball coach and PC that he has ever had have told him how great he is. Then he sees VTool, PBR, and PG touting him on social media. So he is sold that the market price for his services is a 50% deal - but he is assuming these are normal times. And they are not. Right now the D1 schools have the option of plucking proven players out of the transfer portal. Besides being proven the players in the portal are hungry. Many have already been slighted once. Many don’t care how much money they get. They just want an opportunity to play. So for that same 50% a school can get 2 or 3 proven guys out of the portal instead of 1 HS kid that may or may not pan out. And they avoid having to convince the HS player that he isn’t worth what he thinks he is. So in the current college baseball business model “buying” is actually cheaper than “building.” One of many problems, as I see it, is the issue of culture. Culture is much easier to build than buy.
Although I’m not sure, most coaches ever looked at a P5 HS commit as a four year deal, I think they now look at it more as a one year trial in terms of freshman. If you come in as a freshman and they don’t see immediately that you are ready to go, you won’t be there your second year. In our program, there are 6 remaining of the 14 that showed up last year. Five are on the current roster.
The rule that P5 scholarships have to be for 4 years is pretty recent. Perhaps they should go back to the old system, of only guaranteeing one year at a time, since that's how they are operating in practice.
@anotherparent posted:The rule that P5 scholarships have to be for 4 years is pretty recent. Perhaps they should go back to the old system, of only guaranteeing one year at a time, since that's how they are operating in practice.
I think it started in 2016 or 2017.
@fenwaysouth posted:True, but I think the real difference is Covid and NCAA transfer policies that have thrown a monkey wrench in the development of a typical 4-5 year D1 baseball career outward to a 6 year baseball college baseball career including graduate transfers in some cases. This is the big development change that coaches are dealing with or not dealing with as the case may be. adbono did a pretty good job of convincing me this is at the heart of the development issue, and I believe it.
In the fast moving world of Information Technology this is known as the "build vs buy" continuum. College baseball coaches seem to adopted this mindset. I can "buy" talent easier, faster, quicker to compete than I can "build" which is less expensive but takes more time.
JMO.
I can say this has changed my son's HA D3. They have at least 4 players that are covid or xfers. This is the first time the team has done this many and I would suspect given their success it will not end. I told my kid you are 100% on my 4 year plan or find a good student loan provider.
@anotherparent posted:The rule that P5 scholarships have to be for 4 years is pretty recent. Perhaps they should go back to the old system, of only guaranteeing one year at a time, since that's how they are operating in practice.
I don’t even hate Gundy’s idea that you sign a 1,2,3 or 4 year scholarship deal….but it actually means something on both sides.
@adbono posted:Here is the latest update. Read carefully if you are one of the people that believes every player gets coached and all freshmen get developmental instruction.
Last night John had a long conversation with my pitching coaching partner (Mike). Being concerned about John’s mental state, Mike asked a lot of questions. What he learned was that John is on his own. No coaches are watching his bullpens. Nobody is taking video of them either (unless he can get a teammate to do it) so there is no video analysis from any coaches. So far, according to Mike, John is using this experience as motivation. But he also is feeling very defeated. This is a tough way to learn a tough lesson. And you would hope that this experience will lead to John and his parents making a better decision about what to do next. You would hope.
pretty much par for the course with us also...
@adbono posted:@fenwaysouth, people used to wear suits to work everyday too. A lot has changed in college baseball since your son played. College baseball is now big business. It didn’t used to be. Due to Covid there are now athletes playing 6 years of college baseball. That’s never been the case before. There is an over supply of players like never before too. Add the impact of the transfer portal and NIL and you have chaos. Many top programs (especially D1s) don’t want to spend 2 years developing a freshman that may or may not work out when, for the same scholarship dollars, they can get 2 proven players out of the transfer portal. It’s both less risk and a better ROI. It’s a business decision. It’s also easier and you get your return sooner. It’s an easier, more efficient business model. In theory and for right now. But a lot of schools have adopted it. I know this because, not only do I see it happening with my own eyes, more than a few D1 coaches have told me that this is what they are doing. Comparing development in the workplace to development in college baseball is a reach at best. You are talking about adults vs 18 yr old kids. But you wouldn’t see college players signing up for Tread Athletics at $500/mo if they were being developed at their schools. I’m glad that your son had a good experience. It’s the kid that everyone hopes for. But right now that experience only exists for a fraction of college players. And what makes up that fraction are the players that have position coaches that actively teach the game. Even then those position coaches may only be helping the players that are on the field contributing. There would not be so many posters that currently have sons playing college baseball talking about the lack of development if it wasn’t a real issue. They problem with this issue, as with many others, is that if your player didn’t experience it then it’s sometimes hard to believe. But there is a reason that so many Drivelines, Treads, etc have popped up over the last 10 years. And the reason is that there is a huge appetite for development that isn’t being satisfied in college baseball. Right now is a great time to be one of the very best players in college baseball. It’s a terrible time to be anything less than that.
Nailed it - 1 billion % !
@fishnsail posted:Nailed it - 1 billion % !
Thank you. I’m here all week. Try the veal and don’t forget to tip your waitress!