I think that is unfair. Flu was spread out. We did not have to make more ICU spaces for flu. The mort rate was lower and I am grateful for that but the stress in hospitals was and still are overwhelming.
Normal flu seasons don’t kill 35k in a month. It will be great news if Covid-19 turns out to be less serious than expected, but 1) it is not like influenza (if only because there is no vaccine). And 2) blaming media reports and politicians makes no sense to me when Fauci, CDC, NIH and other medical experts concurred in the steps the states took. At any point Fauci could have said “stop, this is no big deal” and every major media outlet would have reported that. (Btw, he still isn’t saying that...)
And to say “see, deaths are only projected to be 60k” after 4-6 weeks in which most of the country was locked down seems odd to me. It’s like the guy standing in a driving rainstorm who throws away his umbrella because he isn’t getting wet.
And it was a hoax in Italy, Spain, England, Iran, Turkey, why???
Best thing I read somewhere: We didn’t lock down the country to try to prevent 60,000 deaths; we locked down the country to limit deaths to 60,000 from what would have been a much larger number.
@2022NYC, that is the case in NY. FL is not overwhelmed. A CEO of a hospital in Broward County told me personally that his hospital is like a ghost town. They have Covid cases, but that’s it. He is furloughing staff next week if they can’t open up to regular hospital business.
anotherparent posted:And it was a hoax in Italy, Spain, England, Iran, Turkey, why???
Best thing I read somewhere: We didn’t lock down the country to try to prevent 60,000 deaths; we locked down the country to limit deaths to 60,000 from what would have been a much larger number.
Exactly. The continued comparisons with the common flu are not even close. We have taken unprecedented drastic measures across the country (and world). We have seen clearly with NYC, New Orleans, etc., what the likelihood is once this highly contagious virus takes hold in a big city. Multiply that by every big city in every state (yes, I realize that NYC is particularly big but still..) had we not taken those measures. You think small towns and remote areas are not a problem? Many like the one with the food plant in South Dakota and now in Iowa with Tyson Foods have big plants where the virus suddenly ran rampant. Many people in most of those remote areas, as has been discussed here, thought any restrictions there were unnecessary overkill. Then, suddenly, it is a crisis. Then, there are assisted living facilities in pretty much every town. And on and on.
No one knows the numbers for sure but it is hard to imagine that deaths wouldn't be at least ten times what they are without the drastic measures that have been taken (that we don't take with the common flu). And, we are certainly not at the end. There is plenty to debate with the damage to the economy but we really need to move on from trying to argue that this pandemic is no more lethal than the common flu and, thus, should be treated in the same manner.
Also, we really haven't even scratched the surface on discussing and addressing the more significant damage done to the lungs, heart, liver and more for those who survive this virus.
anotherparent posted:Tim Turner posted:Tim will do...there’s no revised argument her at all...it’s my opinion and it’s and it’s shared by a lot of others that I’ve talked to. I won’t post anymore about it. I’m with the others...I’d much rather talk baseball than anything else.
[see, it's possible to remove all the old posts...]
Re-opening gradually is shared by absolutely everyone. Everyone agrees that different parts of the country need different things, based on multiple factors. That is precisely what the government said yesterday. The only thing people differ on is how much we need to know. The people who say, "just open it all up now and let some people die" are wrong; we will know much more in a week or two, and that will save not just lives but also the economy. No-one thinks we should all be shut down indefinitely. The main unknown is when we're going to have the data that we need.
Smitty28, what you describe pretty much sounds like what we already have here (a medium size town far from a large city, where everyone drives everywhere). Our golf courses are still open, everyone goes outside for walks, no-one is being stopped from going to outdoor batting cages (as far as I know), plenty of people are driving around, construction sites are still open, hardware stores are open, etc. I don't know what our two factories are doing.
At the end of the day, they are probably going to conclude that the two main contributing factors to spread and mortality are nursing homes and public transport (agree with CollegeBaseballInsights), which they can't do anything about, and public gatherings, which they can, if they want.
In Iowa, if we didn't have nursing homes or meat packing plants, we'd be doing okay. I think like 25% of our 2,500 cases are from nursing homes. The other day had 196 new cases, about 85 of which were in packing plants.
Golf courses are open (not clubhouses), school facilities including baseball pitching and batting facilities are closed, but construction sites are open and hardware stores are essential business. Governor just implemented additional rules for one hard hit area and said no in-person interaction with people outside your immediate family and we were shocked. Didn't realize people were still doing that.
Reason to restart baseball
https://news.yahoo.com/sunligh...ail&uh_test=1_02
yes I know yahoo is not a great credible source. But I like what it says.
RJM posted:CollegebaseballInsights posted:Just to lighten this conversation.
The other day I went into ACME Supermarket, had my N95 mask on.
Walking quickly, I passed a lady.
She said I startled her and that I was not following "Social Distancing" Guidelines.
I asked her one simple questions:
Where is your N95 mask?
It's your world, then said "Have a nice day". Proceeded to do the Running Man dance.
Your response was snarky and rude. The CDC recommended masks if you can’t maintained social distancing. You violated her space.
Our grocery store implemented one-way aisles to help people maintain social distance. The main people violating that are the store employees who are pulling orders for their online pick up service, but since they are shopping for 200 people a day I kind of get it.
TerribleBPthrower posted:@2022NYC, that is the case in NY. FL is not overwhelmed. A CEO of a hospital in Broward County told me personally that his hospital is like a ghost town. They have Covid cases, but that’s it. He is furloughing staff next week if they can’t open up to regular hospital business.
FL, in this case, Ers in Broward, were overwhelmed. But many patients did test positive for Flu A. Once the spring breakers left, cruise ships stopped letting people off ships, we went into a stay at home order, required masks while shopping, limiting flights into FL airports, things eased up. I know things aren't as bad in Martin County, but the general consensus here is how stupid was that for opening the beach in Jax? You would think that no one here, looking at pictures, couldn't go out of their house!
We need widespread testing. Plain and simple.
Ask the many doctors and nurses that got sick (many died) if this was a normal flu. To suggest that this was a media driven hysteria, or even mention the word hoax, is irresponsible. JMO
Go44dad posted:Roses are red
Violets are blue
My best friend Knutt
Did an interview for you
https://21stcenturywire.com/20...oesnt-actually-work/
It’s much easier to read the transcript than watch video. Some source credential information attached below
I watched that whole thing days ago. He makes some good points. But when he starts speaking for the medical community, he’s in over his head.
TPM posted:TerribleBPthrower posted:@2022NYC, that is the case in NY. FL is not overwhelmed. A CEO of a hospital in Broward County told me personally that his hospital is like a ghost town. They have Covid cases, but that’s it. He is furloughing staff next week if they can’t open up to regular hospital business.
FL, in this case, Ers in Broward, were overwhelmed. But many patients did test positive for Flu A. Once the spring breakers left, cruise ships stopped letting people off ships, we went into a stay at home order, required masks while shopping, limiting flights into FL airports, things eased up. I know things aren't as bad in Martin County, but the general consensus here is how stupid was that for opening the beach in Jax? You would think that no one here, looking at pictures, couldn't go out of their house!
We need widespread testing. Plain and simple.
Ask the many doctors and nurses that got sick (many died) if this was a normal flu. To suggest that this was a media driven hysteria, or even mention the word hoax, is irresponsible. JMO
The CEO is the head of a hospital in Broward. I’m not comparing it to the flu or mentioning anything media related. I’m simply relaying that a hospital CEO in Broward County said if they can’t get back to BAU very soon (next week) he will need to furlough staff, including nurses. This conversation was discussing the current state of his hospital. He didn’t mention anything about what it was like 3 or 4 weeks ago. But currently, they are not overwhelmed.
Over half the cases in FL are concentrated in the tri-county area. There is no reason other parts of the state shouldn’t be allowed to slowly open and follow the guidelines that were provided.
TerribleBPthrower,
I was just saying most of the walk ins where my daughter's GF worked told her. They were swamped as first. She went up to Elmhurst and if anyone things getting the virus isn't bad, think again.
First 2 cases in Broward had gone on a cruise. Those ships are breeding grounds for sure, and a senior citizens favorite activity.
I think that things got better once they told people to go home and quarantine for 14 days.
Go44dad posted:It is Past Time to Face Reality.
IHME lowered nationwide death projection 12%, from 68k to 60k. Florida was a large part of this drop, going from 4,738 to 1363.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/jac...-coronavirus-phase-1
A small anti-body testing study in Chelsea, (Boston) shows 34% of people have the antibodies produced from exposure to CoVid 19, many times the amount expected. (Chelsea is somewhat analagous to New York in proximity of people, etc. I'll let someone who knows tell me if that is true or not.) https://www.bostonglobe.com/20...xposure-coronavirus/
While the meaning of Hoax has shifted over the last few years, this is beginning to smell much more like a media and politician driven hysteria. It's beginning to show the statistics of a normal respiratory flu season with some regions particularly hard hit.
Chelsea is adjacent to the city. It’s a high density, high unemployment, low education, low income ESL town. Chances are these were the last people to know what was going on. There’s a lot of hanging out and chatting in Chelsea. In normal times you see a lot of people hanging in front of buildings.
City rolling out trucks broadcasting COVID-19 messages in 7 languages
https://www.wcvb.com/article/c...7-languages/32197108
Several thoughts -
If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time.
If you are not prepared to go that far.... then one must ponder the possibility that to a certain degree the medical people are pulling shit out of their asses and really don't know what is going to happen and are hazarding educated guesses. IMO this is much closer to the truth than there was ever going to be 2.2 million deaths.
This argument may have merit because no matter how much the Chinese are lying it is now doubtful this was ever as lethal as it was hyped to be in March. This does not mean it was not dangerous or that any mitigation was not warranted. But did we overreact? Someday we can assess that point.
Now we must consider recent news that the Chinese knowingly allowed this to spread globally. That means that is was an intentional act that is now responsible for roughly 20X Pearl Harbor or 9/11 deaths in US making it the most dangerous attack in US history. It will kill more US ciizens than either Vietnam or Korea.
We need to recognize this for what it was - a state sponsored decision to not contain it and to disrupt the world. It was reckless at best or criminal/terroristic at worst. IMO it is the later and we need to stop calling this thing anything but the Wuhan Virus. Naming names is part of the accountability that must happen.
Given that our greatest streagth as a nation is our economy the notion of putting it back on track has to be the highest priority if in fact we are now in a war (as I think we are) with the Chinese. What that means is that similar to the Cold War every citizen is now a soldier and needs to do their duty and go back to work if they are able.
It is now time for all of us to start pulling on the same end of he rope again. God Bless America.
CollegebaseballInsights posted:luv baseball posted:Several thoughts -
If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time.
If you are not prepared to go that far.... then one must ponder the possibility that to a certain degree the medical people are pulling shit out of their asses and really don't know what is going to happen and are hazarding educated guesses. IMO this is much closer to the truth than there was ever going to be 2.2 million deaths.
This argument may have merit because no matter how much the Chinese are lying it is now doubtful this was ever as lethal as it was hyped to be in March. This does not mean it was not dangerous or that any mitigation was not warranted. But did we overreact? Someday we can assess that point.
Now we must consider recent news that the Chinese knowingly allowed this to spread globally. That means that is was an intentional act that is now responsible for roughly 20X Pearl Harbor or 9/11 deaths in US making it the most dangerous attack in US history. It will kill more US ciizens than either Vietnam or Korea.
We need to recognize this for what it was - a state sponsored decision to not contain it and to disrupt the world. It was reckless at best or criminal/terroristic at worst. IMO it is the later and we need to stop calling this thing anything but the Wuhan Virus. Naming names is part of the accountability that must happen.
Given that our greatest streagth as a nation is our economy the notion of putting it back on track has to be the highest priority if in fact we are now in a war (as I think we are) with the Chinese. What that means is that similar to the Cold War every citizen is now a soldier and needs to do their duty and go back to work if they are able.
It is now time for all of us to start pulling on the same end of he rope again. God Bless America.
"If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time."
Thanks for the laugh, the ditherer in chief called it a hoax, ignored intelligence, didn't mobilize the DPA quick enough.
Wants to blame WHO, but not the leader of China, because he has authoritarian characteristics.
CollegebaseballInsights posted:luv baseball posted:Several thoughts -
If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time.
If you are not prepared to go that far.... then one must ponder the possibility that to a certain degree the medical people are pulling shit out of their asses and really don't know what is going to happen and are hazarding educated guesses. IMO this is much closer to the truth than there was ever going to be 2.2 million deaths.
This argument may have merit because no matter how much theChinese are lying it is now doubtful this was ever as lethal as it was hyped to be in March. This does not mean it was not dangerous or that any mitigation was not warranted. But did we overreact? Someday we can assess that point.
Now we must consider recent news that the Chinese knowingly allowed this to spread globally. That means that is was an intentional act that is now responsible for roughly 20X Pearl Harbor or 9/11 deaths in US making it the most dangerous attack in US history. It will kill more US ciizens than either Vietnam or Korea.
We need to recognize this for what it was - a state sponsored decision to not contain it and to disrupt the world. It was reckless at best or criminal/terroristic at worst. IMO it is the later and we need to stop calling this thing anything but the Wuhan Virus. Naming names is part of the accountability that must happen.
Given that our greatest streagth as a nation is our economy the notion of putting it back on track has to be the highest priority if in fact we are now in a war (as I think we are) with the Chinese. What that means is that similar to the Cold War every citizen is now a soldier and needs to do their duty and go back to work if they are able.
It is now time for all of us to start pulling on the same end of he rope again. God Bless America.
"If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time."
Thanks for the laugh, the ditherer in chief called it a hoax, ignored intelligence, didn't mobilize the DPA quick enough.
Wants to blame WHO, but not the leader of China, because he has authoritarian characteristics.
What was the national media doing Jan 31st? Non-stop coverage of Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler in the Senate making a fool of themselves and the democratic party. And calling Trump a racist because he cut off travel with China.
But no stories on the Virus.
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Images (2)
Go44dad posted:CollegebaseballInsights posted:luv baseball posted:Several thoughts -
If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time.
If you are not prepared to go that far.... then one must ponder the possibility that to a certain degree the medical people are pulling shit out of their asses and really don't know what is going to happen and are hazarding educated guesses. IMO this is much closer to the truth than there was ever going to be 2.2 million deaths.
This argument may have merit because no matter how much the Chinese are lying it is now doubtful this was ever as lethal as it was hyped to be in March. This does not mean it was not dangerous or that any mitigation was not warranted. But did we overreact? Someday we can assess that point.
Now we must consider recent news that the Chinese knowingly allowed this to spread globally. That means that is was an intentional act that is now responsible for roughly 20X Pearl Harbor or 9/11 deaths in US making it the most dangerous attack in US history. It will kill more US ciizens than either Vietnam or Korea.
We need to recognize this for what it was - a state sponsored decision to not contain it and to disrupt the world. It was reckless at best or criminal/terroristic at worst. IMO it is the later and we need to stop calling this thing anything but the Wuhan Virus. Naming names is part of the accountability that must happen.
Given that our greatest streagth as a nation is our economy the notion of putting it back on track has to be the highest priority if in fact we are now in a war (as I think we are) with the Chinese. What that means is that similar to the Cold War every citizen is now a soldier and needs to do their duty and go back to work if they are able.
It is now time for all of us to start pulling on the same end of he rope again. God Bless America.
"If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time."
Thanks for the laugh, the ditherer in chief called it a hoax, ignored intelligence, didn't mobilize the DPA quick enough.
Wants to blame WHO, but not the leader of China, because he has authoritarian characteristics.
CollegebaseballInsights posted:luv baseball posted:Several thoughts -
If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time.
If you are not prepared to go that far.... then one must ponder the possibility that to a certain degree the medical people are pulling shit out of their asses and really don't know what is going to happen and are hazarding educated guesses. IMO this is much closer to the truth than there was ever going to be 2.2 million deaths.
This argument may have merit because no matter how much theChinese are lying it is now doubtful this was ever as lethal as it was hyped to be in March. This does not mean it was not dangerous or that any mitigation was not warranted. But did we overreact? Someday we can assess that point.
Now we must consider recent news that the Chinese knowingly allowed this to spread globally. That means that is was an intentional act that is now responsible for roughly 20X Pearl Harbor or 9/11 deaths in US making it the most dangerous attack in US history. It will kill more US ciizens than either Vietnam or Korea.
We need to recognize this for what it was - a state sponsored decision to not contain it and to disrupt the world. It was reckless at best or criminal/terroristic at worst. IMO it is the later and we need to stop calling this thing anything but the Wuhan Virus. Naming names is part of the accountability that must happen.
Given that our greatest streagth as a nation is our economy the notion of putting it back on track has to be the highest priority if in fact we are now in a war (as I think we are) with the Chinese. What that means is that similar to the Cold War every citizen is now a soldier and needs to do their duty and go back to work if they are able.
It is now time for all of us to start pulling on the same end of he rope again. God Bless America.
"If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time."
Thanks for the laugh, the ditherer in chief called it a hoax, ignored intelligence, didn't mobilize the DPA quick enough.
Wants to blame WHO, but not the leader of China, because he has authoritarian characteristics.
What was the national media doing Jan 31st? Non-stop coverage of Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler in the Senate making a fool of themselves and the democratic party. And calling Trump a racist because he cut off travel with China.
But no stories on the Virus.
Ok a couple days ago I said I wasn’t going to post anymore on this subject, but when I see people trying to defend their position by inserting a quote from HL Mencken that tells me everything I need to know about that person. You voted for him or you didn’t...that’s your right as an American citizen...but I’ll guarantee you one thing I’d rather have him in the White House handling this than a guy that puts his foot in his mouth every time he opens it. And don’t get me started about Mrs. Clinton! So now everyone knows where I stand.
^ These posts are proof that this thread has made the final step to turn into facebook. All we need is some public shaming.
Viking0 posted:^ These posts are proof that this thread has made the final step to turn into facebook. All we need is some public shaming.
I didn’t open this door
This thread has been contentious at times but, for the most part, contained a great deal of discussion, debate, opinion and (mostly) great resource content from folks from all over the map (in every way - which is a good thing).
Can we PLEASE get back on track with that so that we can avoid thread closure or deletion ??!!
.."I’ll guarantee you one thing I’d rather have him in the White House handling this than a guy that puts his foot in his mouth every time he opens it. And don’t get me started about Mrs. Clinton! So now everyone knows where I stand."
I'm not going to say why I think he's uniquely unqualified to be the person "handling this", and has done an miserable job so far. I could write several screens worth, but it would be a waste of pixels. I will say that below is a partial list of HSBaseballWeb users with a variety of backgrounds and political viewpoints, who, just from reading or interacting with here, have demonstrated to me that they have essential qualities the president lacks, and that I would trust to handle this pandemic far more than I trust him.
TPM, RJM, cabbagedad, fenwaysouth, PGStaff, CaCO3Girl, justbaseball, BishopLeftiesDad, hshuler, roothog66, smokeminside, BOF, Coach_May, Consultant, Swampboy, Gov, tequila, Iowmamom, CoachB25, Ripken Fan, infielddad, PitchingFan, Branson Baseball, hokieone, Zia, BK-CatcherDad, Bacdorslider, Sunwalkingvalley, MAM, nycdad, Eokerholm, Chico Esquala & Twoboys
I know I missed quite a few. Apologies. If you believe that you would do a better job than Trump, you are very probably right.
Out.
JCG posted:.."I’ll guarantee you one thing I’d rather have him in the White House handling this than a guy that puts his foot in his mouth every time he opens it. And don’t get me started about Mrs. Clinton! So now everyone knows where I stand."
I'm not going to say why I think he's uniquely unqualified to be the person "handling this", and has done an miserable job so far. I could write several screens worth, but it would be a waste of pixels. I will say that below is a partial list of HSBaseballWeb users with a variety of backgrounds and political viewpoints, who, just from reading or interacting with here, have demonstrated to me that they have essential qualities the president lacks, and that I would trust to handle this pandemic far more than I trust him.
TPM, RJM, cabbagedad, fenwaysouth, PGStaff, CaCO3Girl, justbaseball, BishopLeftiesDad, hshuler, roothog66, smokeminside, BOF, Coach_May, Consultant, Swampboy, Gov, tequila, Iowmamom, CoachB25, Ripken Fan, infielddad, PitchingFan, Branson Baseball, hokieone, Zia, BK-CatcherDad, Bacdorslider, Sunwalkingvalley, MAM, nycdad, Eokerholm, Chico Esquala & Twoboys
I know I missed quite a few. Apologies. If you believe that you would do a better job than Trump, you are very probably right.
Out.
For many days I refrained from reading any posts on this thread..a couple days ago I finally posted a few of my thoughts which were entirely non political...anyone can go back and read those comments and you’ll see they were void of any political thought or political opinion. I came back this morning to visit the thread and came across a political opinion post...so I decided to stand up for my point of view just like several others have opined on this thread.
JCG posted:TPM, RJM, cabbagedad, fenwaysouth, PGStaff, CaCO3Girl, justbaseball, BishopLeftiesDad, hshuler, roothog66, smokeminside, BOF, Coach_May, Consultant, Swampboy, Gov, tequila, Iowmamom, CoachB25, Ripken Fan, infielddad, PitchingFan, Branson Baseball, hokieone, Zia, BK-CatcherDad, Bacdorslider, Sunwalkingvalley, MAM, nycdad, Eokerholm, Chico Esquala & Twoboys
I know I missed quite a few. Apologies. If you believe that you would do a better job than Trump, you are very probably right.
Out.
Let the draft begin!!! Who's up first??!!
JCG posted:.."I’ll guarantee you one thing I’d rather have him in the White House handling this than a guy that puts his foot in his mouth every time he opens it. And don’t get me started about Mrs. Clinton! So now everyone knows where I stand."
I'm not going to say why I think he's uniquely unqualified to be the person "handling this", and has done an miserable job so far. I could write several screens worth, but it would be a waste of pixels. I will say that below is a partial list of HSBaseballWeb users with a variety of backgrounds and political viewpoints, who, just from reading or interacting with here, have demonstrated to me that they have essential qualities the president lacks, and that I would trust to handle this pandemic far more than I trust him.
TPM, RJM, cabbagedad, fenwaysouth, PGStaff, CaCO3Girl, justbaseball, BishopLeftiesDad, hshuler, roothog66, smokeminside, BOF, Coach_May, Consultant, Swampboy, Gov, tequila, Iowmamom, CoachB25, Ripken Fan, infielddad, PitchingFan, Branson Baseball, hokieone, Zia, BK-CatcherDad, Bacdorslider, Sunwalkingvalley, MAM, nycdad, Eokerholm, Chico Esquala & Twoboys
I know I missed quite a few. Apologies. If you believe that you would do a better job than Trump, you are very probably right.
Out.
JCG posted:.."I’ll guarantee you one thing I’d rather have him in the White House handling this than a guy that puts his foot in his mouth every time he opens it. And don’t get me started about Mrs. Clinton! So now everyone knows where I stand."
I'm not going to say why I think he's uniquely unqualified to be the person "handling this", and has done an miserable job so far. I could write several screens worth, but it would be a waste of pixels. I will say that below is a partial list of HSBaseballWeb users with a variety of backgrounds and political viewpoints, who, just from reading or interacting with here, have demonstrated to me that they have essential qualities the president lacks, and that I would trust to handle this pandemic far more than I trust him.
TPM, RJM, cabbagedad, fenwaysouth, PGStaff, CaCO3Girl, justbaseball, BishopLeftiesDad, hshuler, roothog66, smokeminside, BOF, Coach_May, Consultant, Swampboy, Gov, tequila, Iowmamom, CoachB25, Ripken Fan, infielddad, PitchingFan, Branson Baseball, hokieone, Zia, BK-CatcherDad, Bacdorslider, Sunwalkingvalley, MAM, nycdad, Eokerholm, Chico Esquala & Twoboys
I know I missed quite a few. Apologies. If you believe that you would do a better job than Trump, you are very probably right.
Out.
💔
Interesting article.
Agreed this thread has been a great source of differing opinions, info, and just a way to discuss what's foremost of many of our minds these days. I also understand that sometimes when you see an opinion expressed that sets you off, you want to respond. Political comments tend especially to have that effect, and I have ventured responses to such now and then myself. (Although I have tried to apologize and walk them back when I have done so, and I don't think I've fallen off that wagon lately.)
Point being, most of the folks in this community have agreed to try to avoid politics, and that seems to be a good practice. I'm not trying to attack anyone who has offered opinions with a political cast in this thread--I just ask that we not go there. (I have strong political views of my own, believe me.)
Anyhow--I thought the stats in the article linked below from today's Washington Post were interesting. The authors have a point of view you may disagree with, but read it anyhow for the data. IMO they are a good demonstration both that covid-19 is a serious problem, and that the degree of seriousness is heavily dependent on geography.
I inserted a couple of charts from the article below. Here is the link:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...e-death/?arc404=true
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"https://www.timesofisrael.com/...f-out-after-70-days/"
Well, that is another person who just looks at numbers and seems to have no ideas about what might be behind them. I prefer the people who know something about disease transmission, even the ones who say that we need herd immunity and who cares about some deaths know something about the medicine. This guy is just like another who got some press, just for looking at patterns in the numbers.
Every single day there is more information about what this disease actually does, and what might help it. Yesterday the news was that asthma is apparently not a risk factor (https://www.thelancet.com/acti...-2600%2820%2930167-3), which was truly surprising to me, especially since I live in a house with two asthmatics. Two days ago, Remdesivir was shown to be very promising. Four days ago, the British press was reporting that a group at Oxford University is doing clinical trials of a vaccine that, if it works, they hope to have available by September: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gl...ld-ready-end-summer/. Hundreds more studies are being done, it's really amazing. Thank goodness for scientists.
RE Remdesivir -- not sure if that piece was posted. Very promising.
It really doesn’t matter if the numbers play out the same everywhere. If the stats are the same in country after country, they have merit. Doesn’t matter if a doctor, medical professor, or statistics specialist logs them. Of course treating the disease is important but it doesn’t change when it peaks and when it subsided.
Chico Escuela posted:Agreed this thread has been a great source of differing opinions, info, and just a way to discuss what's foremost of many of our minds these days. I also understand that sometimes when you see an opinion expressed that sets you off, you want to respond. Political comments tend especially to have that effect, and I have ventured responses to such now and then myself. (Although I have tried to apologize and walk them back when I have done so, and I don't think I've fallen off that wagon lately.)
Point being, most of the folks in this community have agreed to try to avoid politics, and that seems to be a good practice. I'm not trying to attack anyone who has offered opinions with a political cast in this thread--I just ask that we not go there. (I have strong political views of my own, believe me.)
Anyhow--I thought the stats in the article linked below from today's Washington Post were interesting. The authors have a point of view you may disagree with, but read it anyhow for the data. IMO they are a good demonstration both that covid-19 is a serious problem, and that the degree of seriousness is heavily dependent on geography.
I inserted a couple of charts from the article below. Here is the link:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...e-death/?arc404=true
Thanks for sharing this. I am curious if this chart accounts for co-mortalities and how they placed in the buckets. This has been the issue with flu.
Something that has been on my mind, offered for your consideration: A family member is president of an electric utility that serves millions of customers in the southern US. I spoke with this person recently. The lights have to stay on during the pandemic, of course, so they have linemen and other key folks working while wearing masks, practicing rigorous social distancing, etc. Anyone who can work from home is doing so for now, which is more people than you might think. They have had a few employee covid-19 cases, but only a few. One of the big items on their agenda (obviously) is planning for the return of their workers to their offices, call centers and other usual locations. The utility president said something that maybe is obvious, but gave me pause: "Even if I tell my employees to return to work, a lot of them are going to stay home if they don't feel safe." So the company says they need extensive, reliable testing, many gallons of sanitizer and lots of PPE, and it's not yet clear where or when that will be available. This for an industry that is incontrovertibly "essential" and whose employees recognize this about their work. We have a big job ahead of us as a nation.
The stay at home order is also buying time for manufacturing a lot more FDA EUA virus detection kits and qualitative serology test kit to confirm COVID-19 circulating antibodies.
CollegebaseballInsights posted:luv baseball posted:Several thoughts -
If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time.
If you are not prepared to go that far.... then one must ponder the possibility that to a certain degree the medical people are pulling shit out of their asses and really don't know what is going to happen and are hazarding educated guesses. IMO this is much closer to the truth than there was ever going to be 2.2 million deaths.
This argument may have merit because no matter how much the Chinese are lying it is now doubtful this was ever as lethal as it was hyped to be in March. This does not mean it was not dangerous or that any mitigation was not warranted. But did we overreact? Someday we can assess that point.
Now we must consider recent news that the Chinese knowingly allowed this to spread globally. That means that is was an intentional act that is now responsible for roughly 20X Pearl Harbor or 9/11 deaths in US making it the most dangerous attack in US history. It will kill more US ciizens than either Vietnam or Korea.
We need to recognize this for what it was - a state sponsored decision to not contain it and to disrupt the world. It was reckless at best or criminal/terroristic at worst. IMO it is the later and we need to stop calling this thing anything but the Wuhan Virus. Naming names is part of the accountability that must happen.
Given that our greatest streagth as a nation is our economy the notion of putting it back on track has to be the highest priority if in fact we are now in a war (as I think we are) with the Chinese. What that means is that similar to the Cold War every citizen is now a soldier and needs to do their duty and go back to work if they are able.
It is now time for all of us to start pulling on the same end of he rope again. God Bless America.
"If it is true this was going to kill 2.2 million in US as was predicted at one point then Trump limiting it to 60k makes him the unquestioned greatest president in our history - his actions have saved over 2 million lives and he is a hero for all time."
Thanks for the laugh, the ditherer in chief called it a hoax, ignored intelligence, didn't mobilize the DPA quick enough.
Wants to blame WHO, but not the leader of China, because he has authoritarian characteristics.
Trump never called it a hoax. He called the media a hoax. The media is claiming he called the virus a hoax. Yet liberals don’t want to admit it and cling to this lie.
The first person died in 2/28. Trump shut down the border and the media and Democrats (sorry for the redundancy) screamed “xenophobia.”
Late February Nancy Pelosi was parading around San Francisco’s Chinatown telling people to ignore COVID and to eat out since there was nothing to be afraid of. Democrat NYC Mayor DiBlasio and the NYC Health Director were telling people the same two weeks later.
It’s looking to me like Democrats were asleep at the wheel trying to remove Trump from office (impeachment) over fraudulent charges and calling him a xenophobe over shutting down travel when they could have been paying attention to world affairs that could affect the county.
The last Democrat I posted this at told me I was dumber than a bag of rocks and he hopes I die from COVID so there would be one less stupid person in the world. They’re just facts. I thought he would appreciate facts, not get upset with them.
I was hoping we would re-open operations before doing a hot-wash of the data, blaming the parties and funding a reasonable after-action plan.
Chico Escuela posted:Anyhow--I thought the stats in the article linked below from today's Washington Post were interesting. The authors have a point of view you may disagree with, but read it anyhow for the data. IMO they are a good demonstration both that covid-19 is a serious problem, and that the degree of seriousness is heavily dependent on geography.
I inserted a couple of charts from the article below. Here is the link:
While you may find the article interesting, by no means use it for the data. It is totally slanted in line with the Post's political agenda.
I posted the following from the latest CDC report at the time on this forum four days ago:
- Based on death certificate data, the percentage of deaths attributed to COVID-19 increased from 4.0% during week 13 to 6.9% during week 14. The percentage of deaths due to pneumonia (excluding COVID-19 or influenza) decreased from 7.5% during week 13 to 7.2% during week 14.
The reason I posted this was to show that common pneumonia deaths still exceeded COVID-19 deaths. Not meant to say COVID-19 deaths are insignificant, just that COVID-19 was not the dominant cause of P&I deaths. Do you honestly think this changed that dramatically in a weeks time? Note the Post just happened to throw in "pneumonitis" as an item in their graphic--the SMALLEST circle. What is "pneumonitis" you ask?
Pneumonia vs. pneumonitis. Pneumonitis is a term used to describe inflammation of the lung tissues without the presence of an infection, whereas pneumonia is inflammation caused by an infection.
Why would they include this? People die from this? Seriously? Where is pneumonia listed on this chart? Non-COVID-19 pneumonia? Also note that while COVID-19 deaths were increasing in week 14, non-flu and non-COVID-19 pneumonia deaths decreased and this is likely because testing for COVID-19 became paramount. Or not. Because people who died of pneumonia now are listed as probable deaths related to COVID-19. 125% insurance payout to providers, don't you know...
And notice the bar charts listed below. Are we to assume the data represented in the cascading graphic above is using the data in the bar charts below? I'm sure! Why hasn't the Post used data for the ENTIRE COUNTRY???!!!
I would stick to posting papers published in the scientific community and not some politically motivated piece authored by our "news" media.
ABSORBER, attacking an argument based on its source is known as the "genetic fallacy." But the article is an opinion piece and is by non-experts (like various other things posted in this thread). I'm more interested in what Dr. Fauci says, for sure.
Your post above doesn't show that CDC data demonstrate pneumonia deaths exceed covid-19 deaths. That point may be made somewhere else in what you posted previously, but the quotation in your post immediately above says nothing of the sort.
Let's assume the Post article's chart only reflects the hard-hit areas in the second graph. (I honestly don't know the answer to that.) Wouldn't that still show that in areas where covid-19 rates are highest, it is a very significant cause of death? Seems like something I would want to know if I were considering whether to continue measures to reduce the spread of the disease.
cabbagedad posted:This thread has been contentious at times but, for the most part, contained a great deal of discussion, debate, opinion and (mostly) great resource content from folks from all over the map (in every way - which is a good thing).
Can we PLEASE get back on track with that so that we can avoid thread closure or deletion ??!!
Apparently we can’t. Unlike most threads this one applies to all of us. And some posters just can’t seem to resist offering their political opinions and/or leanings. The deal is nobody cares what they are and it’s not like some clever post is going to change any persons system of values. So, for the love of God, would you please give it a rest?!?
2022NYC posted:I was hoping we would re-open operations before doing a hot-wash of the data, blaming the parties and funding a reasonable after-action plan.
The Democrats and the Mainstream Media Democrat Party Fan Club Newsletter franchise has been blaming Trump since they realized this is another opportunity to remove him from office. They’ve been attempting to rewrite history. While they were out stating COVID is nothing to be concerned with in February and early March they’re claiming Trump knew in January. You don’t shut down the country with incomplete data (China withheld**) and no deaths until 2/28.
** Does anyone seriously believe a China only had 3,500 deaths? It more likely 100,000+. An anonymous reporter (he doesn’t want to be executed) in Wuhan believes their number alone is 42,000-46,000. Does anyone believe Shanghai, population 24.8 million living in top of each other like NYC only had seven deaths?
adbono posted:cabbagedad posted:This thread has been contentious at times but, for the most part, contained a great deal of discussion, debate, opinion and (mostly) great resource content from folks from all over the map (in every way - which is a good thing).
Can we PLEASE get back on track with that so that we can avoid thread closure or deletion ??!!
Apparently we can’t. Unlike most threads this one applies to all of us. And some posters just can’t seem to resist offering their political opinions and/or leanings. The deal is nobody cares what they are and it’s not like some clever post is going to change any persons system of values. So, for the love of God, would you please give it a rest?!?
AMEN
Chico Escuela posted:Something that has been on my mind, offered for your consideration: A family member is president of an electric utility that serves millions of customers in the southern US. I spoke with this person recently. The lights have to stay on during the pandemic, of course, so they have linemen and other key folks working while wearing masks, practicing rigorous social distancing, etc. Anyone who can work from home is doing so for now, which is more people than you might think. They have had a few employee covid-19 cases, but only a few. One of the big items on their agenda (obviously) is planning for the return of their workers to their offices, call centers and other usual locations. The utility president said something that maybe is obvious, but gave me pause: "Even if I tell my employees to return to work, a lot of them are going to stay home if they don't feel safe." So the company says they need extensive, reliable testing, many gallons of sanitizer and lots of PPE, and it's not yet clear where or when that will be available. This for an industry that is incontrovertibly "essential" and whose employees recognize this about their work. We have a big job ahead of us as a nation.
This is totally true. It's relatively easy to get everyone home but it's going to be much harder to get everyone back into the office. We have asked everyone their comfort level with working in the office and the biggest concern we get has to do with commuting into NYC. Many say they will drive in and park initially when things open up. I have a number of people I just don't think will come back until there is widespread testing or until they see no new cases etc. We will have signs in the office for doors to go in, and doors to leave, what urinal to use etc etc. I hope we take temps in the lobby too. t's going to take time.