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My Valley League team just completed our 10th year, and in talking with other teams' officials, and folks from other summer leagues, everyone is noticing changes, and whether those changes are good, bad, or indifferent I guess is in the eye of the beholder.  First and foremost, and I really don't like this one, there are a lot of players 100% focused on themselves, first, last, and always. We had a player from a big time D-1 program tell his host family that he was here to put up numbers so he could transfer; he couldn't care less whether the team won or lost, didn't really care about the town or all of the volunteers, he was in the portal and needed numbers. And when he got an offer mid-summer from another D-1, away he went. Some other players just packed and left, with no word to their host family or our coaches until they arrived at their home. 'It's all about me" seems to be the operative expression. Thankfully we also had a lot of really good kids that worked their butts off, improved their game, and were a delight for the fans and the host families...but the "all about me" crowd seems to be growing.    This seems to be happening across the country as I know some kids signed late by the Cape that would have never gotten a sniff from the Cape a few years ago, which tells me that even the Cape is seeing a lot of turnover. From our original 35 man roster, 22 were gone by the end of the summer-some innings limits, some injuries, some girl friends, some just flaked out...but as scouts will tell you, if a kid can't hack a 42 game summer schedule, how with they handle a MiLB schedule?         Another team ended up with 5 of their original 35 players.  2 teams couldn't complete the playoffs because they ran out of either position players, pitchers, or both.     And our league is a very old and respected league, not just a "come lately".    The portal is now huge-we had quite a few college coaches come to a lot of games to scout guys that were in the transfer portal. Our GM got a number of calls asking what "portal kids" we had.  We had 5 former players drafted in the MLB draft this summer, the highest was in round 4. 2 more guys signed as free agents. Next year, we will have a former player probably go in the top 10 picks. So if we can't keep kids, what about less established teams in less established leagues?      I don't know the answers-our league's board will be having a lot of discussions, but I suspect some summer leagues will just fold and some teams will just fold.   The "good kids" make it worthwhile and praise the Lord our league seemed to have a bunch of them...but the "Me First" numbers are growing.     

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Just to get his straight kids are taught to be eyes wide open, colleges recruit them at 14 and then cut them loose before they get to campus or cut them loose after a bad fall or ball season, coaches and the many experts on here tell everyone of us every day you better to be ready to play, nobody cares if you can't play, they will cut you loose in second if they deem someone is better or one of my favorites being that colleges don't have time to develop skills figure it out for yourself...but now the kids are supposed to bleed the colors of a summer team for 42 games because it is special? Good luck with that.

Baseball has been feasting on its own for years and the laws of supply and demand have made it ok, maybe just possibly the summer teams are on the front end of that changing and the kids are realizing that the organization can **** off as well as the player can be sent walking.

Baseball has brought this on themselves by treating players like crap for many years, suck it up summer ball I don't see it changing.

Hokieone,

One very bad, selfish and unappreciative person shouldn’t spoil an entire business.   The guys sounds like a self involved tool but that is not the big picture problem here. 

So, what is going on around the baseball ecosystem?   We could probably come up with at least 10 significant trends in college baseball that is effecting summer college baseball.   The college game is popular but other sports are growing quickly and are more popular.   Let’s face it, baseball is looked at as an old person sport.

Let’s start with the college draft.  Far fewer players drafted that may cause some changes in attitude.   The NCAA changed their stance on NIL and athlete marketing.   College athletes are competing for additional revenues.   The NCAA has introduced a transfer portal.   The Power 5 conferences are consolidating...fewer dollars available for those outside of the SEC, Big10 and ACC.    Even MiLB is consolidating.    All of these factors are economic at their core.   People are coin operated and behavior has been modified to chase fewer dollars.   It is not that shocking to me to see people get a case of the “me firsts” because that is what they’ve been economically conditioned to think.

JMO. 

I get it that this generation of players has a me over team attitude. And it frustrates a lot of us. IMO it’s a product of over-hype on social media. By scouting services, parents, keyboard warriors, and pretenders that build their brand off of unsuspecting kids. And I hate every bit of it.
  But I want to offer up a story that gives us hope. Earlier this year I was asked by a family friend to help a neighborhood HS senior (Ryan) get recruited. Ryan had just lost his father 90 days before I met him. His dad passed in the fall on senior night as Ryan played his last HS football game. I asked around about Ryan’s character and got nothing but glowing responses. I watched him play and recognized him as having more than enough talent to play college baseball. He had gone under-recruited b/c of bad advice and b/c he played for a bad travel org. After sizing up the situation I decided to help. I met with Ryan this morning, just before he left town to report to his JuCo campus. We talked about what he should expect when he gets there. As we parted company he handed me an envelope. This is what was inside:

738B9220-2006-46B5-B2FA-562CF523218C

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Hokie and Adbono;

The Summer teams should develop a "List of Questions" for each player. Why, What, When, Where and How.

It would appear that the "selfish" players are NOT knowledgeable of the communication between the Pro Scouts, College Coaches and your teams. The player's baseball career maybe "harm" by his "behavior". The pro scout is an expert in gathering information [positive and negative].


Hokie, keep up your "good work". Continue to "fine tune" your organization.

Bob

Last edited by Consultant
@adbono posted:

I get it that this generation of players has a me over team attitude. And it frustrates a lot of us. IMO it’s a product of over-hype on social media. By scouting services, parents, keyboard warriors, and pretenders that build their brand off of unsuspecting kids. And I hate every bit of it.
  But I want to offer up a story that gives us hope. Earlier this year I was asked by a family friend to help a neighborhood HS senior (Ryan) get recruited. Ryan had just lost his father 90 days before I met him. His dad passed in the fall on senior night as Ryan played his last HS football game. I asked around about Ryan’s character and got nothing but glowing responses. I watched him play and recognized him as having more than enough talent to play college baseball. He had gone under-recruited b/c of bad advice and b/c he played for a bad travel org. After sizing up the situation I decided to help. I met with Ryan this morning, just before he left town to report to his JuCo campus. We talked about what he should expect when he gets there. As we parted company he handed me an envelope. This is what was inside:

738B9220-2006-46B5-B2FA-562CF523218C

Thanks for posting this, the thread  desperately needed balance.

My son did not like his first year of summer ball. Was in a basement with 5 other players, and had a coach that was basically trying to do what the OP described, get a name for himself to get a better college coaching job. As a pitcher, it didn't make a lot of sense for him to be there. But he did seem to enjoy participating in the community volunteer activities, and the camaraderie. But he really wanted to be home training. As a pitcher, I had to agree with him.

If we go back to the 40 vs. 4 year plan, summer ball doesn't help the 40 year plan at least for the majority of pitchers IMO.

Flip side of this. I mentioned in another thread that a kid on my son (2022) incoming class de-committed and signed a pro contract. He was able to do that because he played summer ball and was seen by scouts.

Last edited by nycdad

I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that college kids can't stand their summer leagues. It's not a knock on the guys who run them either, but it's hard to convince a kid to care about a bunch of strangers who also don't want to be there. Broke college kids, let me add that in. You take a bunch of college kids with no money, have them live with strangers and have them compete in a league where maybe 4 kids get drafted in any given year and they're supposed to care/get excited to go the park everyday?

It gets old after a while. At school they're working and struggling next to the same people everyday working towards a common goal. With summer ball they're having their summer, their only time off, taken from them - playing in wildly different atmosphere with stakes not nearly as great as what they're accustomed to. It's hard to get up for those games. The only silver lining is they may get drafted but there are only a handful of leagues that produce multiple draft picks every season.

Don't forget, they're also living in a world where social media exists. They can see what their friends are up to 24/7. You think they want to be sitting on a 6 hour bus ride when a few girls from  campus are having a party at the lake house? Ask a player if he'd rather win a summer league championship or spend his entire summer at the lake, making money, doing whatever and see what they say.

I have two in leagues. One in a decent league, the other in a local league. From going to games, talking to players, and sitting behind the dugout and getting the mic'd up version. 95% of those kids do not want to be there, and sometimes the coaching staff. There are college baseball social media pages where you see the summer ball experience from the players side. There is a theme.

Regardless, that is no excuse for any of them to be rude or ungrateful. That is pretty unfortunate.

Last edited by PABaseball

As a parent I kinda wish there was no summer ball.  As a rising senior, son should be in an internship, preparing for his next stage.  Instead he pitched his 10 inning limit (communicated with coach prior to the season), training and working a PT summer job…setting him back for his next 40 years, IMO

He’s enjoyed his summer teams, and it’s cool when he competes against his summer teammates in the spring.  A few smiles on the bump then a hug at the completion of the series.

I think the seasons are too long, it’s a bit much that some are still playing, and the vast majority don’t need to be prepared for the MiLB grind.  55 spring games starting in February,  40+ in summer, then fall competition into Oct/Nov.  Way too much, especially for pitchers.

Last edited by CTbballDad
@adbono posted:

Yeah, when is the last time you saw something like that from a HS kid?

I hope a lot more than we realize.  There are a lot of very humble, well mannered kids out there, they just get pushed aside by the ones that aren't.  I know my son isn't in high school anymore, but as a 20-year old he took it upon himself to go buy a thank-you card for his host family and write them a personal note thanking them for their hospitality.  The next morning I found a brand new pen wrapper with a pen missing.  I asked him where it came from and he said he had to buy a pen to write the thank-you note.    

From what I've seen watching two years of summer games, I think that many players are enjoying it, at least if they're playing well.  I have been surprised by how many players have left before the end of the season, and by the fact that the teams (in good D1 and D1/juco leagues) have been scrabbling for rising college freshmen by the end of the season.

My son has loved his summer league experiences - his ideal life, having nothing to do but learn about and play baseball every day.  However, he did leave early this summer, because he had more innings than expected in the college season, and his arm was done.  I would hope that summer league teams don't blame the players for "me" attitudes when injuries or physical overuse happens.  I would also think that they should expect it and manage for it.

I agree with old_school that maybe the "me" attitude is not all that surprising in some cases - I doubt players in the portal are having particularly good feelings about team loyalty.

@PABaseball posted:

I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that college kids can't stand their summer leagues. It's not a knock on the guys who run them either, but it's hard to convince a kid to care about a bunch of strangers who also don't want to be there. Broke college kids, let me add that in. You take a bunch of college kids with no money, have them live with strangers and have them compete in a league where maybe 4 kids get drafted in any given year and they're supposed to care/get excited to go the park everyday?

It gets old after a while. At school they're working and struggling next to the same people everyday working towards a common goal. With summer ball they're having their summer, their only time off, taken from them - playing in wildly different atmosphere with stakes not nearly as great as what they're accustomed to. It's hard to get up for those games. The only silver lining is they may get drafted but there are only a handful of leagues that produce multiple draft picks every season.

Don't forget, they're also living in a world where social media exists. They can see what their friends are up to 24/7. You think they want to be sitting on a 6 hour bus ride when a few girls from  campus are having a party at the lake house? Ask a player if he'd rather win a summer league championship or spend his entire summer at the lake, making money, doing whatever and see what they say.

I have two in leagues. One in a decent league, the other in a local league. From going to games, talking to players, and sitting behind the dugout and getting the mic'd up version. 95% of those kids do not want to be there, and sometimes the coaching staff. There are college baseball social media pages where you see the summer ball experience from the players side. There is a theme.

Regardless, that is no excuse for any of them to be rude or ungrateful. That is pretty unfortunate.

I have NO experience here. But, I have heard from kids who have heard from others playing in the summer leagues that they hate it. Living with host families is either uncomfortable or down right a nightmare. Pitchers arms are tired. Catchers legs are tired. The schedule is a grind. It's hot. The fields and facilities are lacking. Again, this is all second hand via not trustworthy sources. But I have heard it more than once and repeatedly through the years.

@Consultant posted:

Fortunately there are a surplus of talented players for the vacant roster position. My 1st question to a player, Why? Second question What can I learn about baseball, about life.

Bob

Right now there may be a surplus, at least there was one not long ago. Based on Hokies comments from his long experience and relationship to other leagues the surplus is going down a quickly assuming it is still there.

"2 Teams couldn't complete the playoffs from running out players, pitchers or both"

This doesn't indicate surplus of anything to me.

As far as the Why question a few of you have asked...I think the truth is because there are not choices. How many programs line it up, make it mandatory and the kid has virtually no ability to say no. Give the wrong response and your college career is over, show up and go thru the motions you still have life.

Chasing summer ball for the pipe dream of being couple year MiLB player and the appeasement of a coach is short term thinking and negative EV...IMO and it seems that kids are figuring it out before the coaches, parents and management.

The times are changing and baseball better figure it out or they are going to have bigger problems.

Dear Middling Summer League  Team,

I'm really sorry that I didn't get to play for you this summer because you preferred to sign another end-of-the bench player from a bottom feeding Mid Major D1 team. Too bad, as I would have played my heart out for you. As my college coach assured you, I would have been a great player, teammate and leader, and I would have done everything I could do to show my host family now much I appreciated their generous hospitality. I hope that next summer you'll give a chance to one of my college teammates. I won't be available as I'll be starting my career at a great Fortune 500 Company.

Sincerely,

A D3 Baseball Player

I think for a lot of kids, summer ball is hard and even a little isolating.  I had no idea how bad my son's experience was until the host family organizer came to talk to me at his last game.  He had been placed 30 minutes from town on a farm.  The host family did not cook for him, or even pay much attention to him. They went out of town most weekends.  I saw on his debit card that he literally ate at Kwik shop almost every day.  Apparently, they were no longer going to allow the family to host and the organizer apologized profusely.  I guess his roommate, that left after a few weeks had shared his experience with the organizer.  They had to be at the field at 2 or earlier for away games and when they finished at 10 or 2, if they were on a bus, everything was closed.  He never told me once that it was bad (because he said I would try to fix it).  At the end of a long season, he asked if he could drive his car home (24 hour drive) and fly back for his last start.  They told him no.  That gave him 3 days at home before reporting to school.  He's literally been that kind of kid for the past two years...do everything they ask, don't complain even if it's not helping you.  At this point, sadly, I don't think he has had coaches that actually care much.  I told him that at this point, play for himself, make decisions for himself, be selfish.  Someone has to look out for the kids sometimes and unfortunately, it may have to be them.  I wouldn't be so quick to judge them as selfish, they may just have eyes open now.  That said, I agree, you never need to be rude or appear unappreciative to people that are being gracious.

My son has been fortunate to have very good host families, although certainly he has had to adapt to different ways of living, which was a great experience.  And he has played in the north, so the weather has been beautiful - I can't imagine doing summer ball in the south.  The atmosphere at the ballparks was great.  He didn't get paid, but we didn't have to pay (much) for him, either.

But let me get this straight:

- according to every thread ever on this site, college baseball is a grind, and you'd better really love the game if you want to do it.

- according to PABaseball and Francis7, players hate playing the game they supposedly love in summer leagues - "they're having their summer, their only time off, taken from them" - they would rather be at the lake with friends, or working in offices

- according to old_school, D1 players are jerked around in college, don't get playing time, know they are likely to be cut, are told they have to play in the summer if they want a hope of PT, then still don't get it in the college season no matter how well they do in summer ball

- but that's maybe because the pitching in summer leagues is not great, because the good college pitchers are pitched out during their seasons and don't go. So if D1 bench players hit well against bad summer pitching, it doesn't matter, and if they do badly it's even worse.

- no-one has the hope of getting drafted any more

- it's not enough just to enjoy playing the sport you love all summer and entertaining fans who come to ballparks by the hundreds or even thousands to have a nice summer evening of baseball, beer, and family fun

- because according to Fenway, no-one likes baseball any more anyway

So, what are we all doing on HSBBW, then?


- because according to Fenway, no-one likes baseball any more anyway

@anotherparent - That's a lot of literary license you took there.  Not even close to what I said or meant.  I was pointing out macro trends in MLB/MiLB/NCAA baseball that have a definite impact on college summer baseball.  Also, the economy isn't doing so great right now and if Mom and Dad are funding the summer college baseball experience then possibly they are thinking twice.

All - Full disclosure:  My oldest son did not play college summer baseball at all.  He had opted out all 3 years.  He worked to pay for his portion of a private college, and he felt he needed a rest after being a starting pitcher in the regular season.  All 3 of my sons had some financial responsibility in their college selection.

His first college summer job was working for a civil engineering firm at a waste water treatment facility.   If you need a further description of what it is like to work at a waste water facility in the hot Virginia summer, please PM me.   His second and last summer internship was working as a GE engineering intern.  GE hired him prior to  college graduation.  Again, he didn't feel the need to pitch in the summers.  His college coaches pre-approved this as this was a question (summer ball vs internship) my son asked when he was being recruited. There were no surprises.

My point is summer college baseball is not for everyone, and there are reasons (financial or otherwise) to not play.  If your son has aspirations to play baseball professionally then playing in a college summer league is essential.  However,  my son had no aspirations of becoming a professional baseball player so it made sense to him to do an engineering internship.  I'm wondering if more college players are opting out of college summer baseball to get work experience plus the economy is a little jittery right now....a dollar is not going nearly as far as it used to.  Just a thought.....     

Just my opinion and experiences.....

Last edited by fenwaysouth

Ha…quite the recap  @anotherparent.  Here’s our story and where I stand.

Son had discussions with a few MLB teams prior to this year’s draft, as a potential late pick.  With a low/No SB, we made it clear he’d return to school and graduate.

I do believe son has ability to linger in the minors for a few years, but most likely his ceiling.  Pitchers in MLB either throw 100 or have devastating breaking stuff.  Rare air stuff.

Son recently brought up grad school option for his Covid year.  It broke my heart, but my response was it’s time to start thinking about life after baseball.  If grad school was to just play another year, I wouldn’t recommend taking on debt just to play another year.  Plus, we’ve had to support him financially, on top of a very expensive school, bc he has little time to earn much money on his own. Either get drafted next year or give Indy ball a shot, then move on.

To answer your question, I think as the years go by, you need to start thinking about the next 40 and life after baseball. The closer you get to the business side of the game, the more it separates the talent pools.

I respect @hokieone for what he does, but summer ball is probably somewhere in between creating opportunities for kids and a business.  Hopefully, this thread shows not all players have a “Me First” attitude, rather life is pulling players and families in multiple directions and difficult decisions need to eventually be made.

Last edited by CTbballDad

I do think it is good preparation if you want to play pro.  My son told me that he didn't tell me how bad it was because he was going to "embrace the suck".  That said, as a covid era parent, sometimes you just want them to catch a break.  The games were great in Northwoods.  Great stadium, fans, etc., and they streamed all games which I very much appreciated.  We were looking forward to the cape this year, but alas, surgery.  My only point was that if a kid was just there for numbers, he probably did need to be focused on that, and not "team" (with guys he didn't know) to get noticed and picked up from the bloated portal.

@adbono posted:

Yeah, when is the last time you saw something like that from a HS kid?

@adbono  IMHO, I think many HS student athletes would do the same.  the problem is the current system has fostered a different response.

I'm thinking this young man perspective has significantly changed upon losing his father and by you providing a open hand, you've provided a life boat for opportunities.

Good stuff.

My son has been fortunate to have very good host families, although certainly he has had to adapt to different ways of living, which was a great experience.  And he has played in the north, so the weather has been beautiful - I can't imagine doing summer ball in the south.  The atmosphere at the ballparks was great.  He didn't get paid, but we didn't have to pay (much) for him, either.

But let me get this straight:

- according to every thread ever on this site, college baseball is a grind, and you'd better really love the game if you want to do it.

- according to PABaseball and Francis7, players hate playing the game they supposedly love in summer leagues - "they're having their summer, their only time off, taken from them" - they would rather be at the lake with friends, or working in offices

- according to old_school, D1 players are jerked around in college, don't get playing time, know they are likely to be cut, are told they have to play in the summer if they want a hope of PT, then still don't get it in the college season no matter how well they do in summer ball

- but that's maybe because the pitching in summer leagues is not great, because the good college pitchers are pitched out during their seasons and don't go. So if D1 bench players hit well against bad summer pitching, it doesn't matter, and if they do badly it's even worse.

- no-one has the hope of getting drafted any more

- it's not enough just to enjoy playing the sport you love all summer and entertaining fans who come to ballparks by the hundreds or even thousands to have a nice summer evening of baseball, beer, and family fun

- because according to Fenway, no-one likes baseball any more anyway

So, what are we all doing on HSBBW, then?

@anotherparent great summary.  I might try to create a infograph.



And you are absolutely correct, IMHO HSBBW is here to help inspiring baseball players of all level to navigate the journey.

I've learned significant amount of insight from this community and still remain humbled by the knowledge base.



Here is your laugh for the day.

When I joined, it reminded me of Seinfeld "Soup N...", I put my head down, commented when possible adding some context,  listened and shared.

My son enjoyed his summer ball experience. He knew he was getting into six days a week play and bus rides. He knew it could be a grind. It was. But he loved the experience. The simulation of low minors play made him decide if his upside was future Single A roster filler he wanted no part of it. His host families were big baseball fans. They embraced him. He’s still in touch with them. He heard of other not so pleasant experiences.

One summer he chose to play in a lesser league so he could do a summer internship and play baseball. His college coach’s response? “You don’t really give a damn about baseball, do you?” My son was developing his “next forty years” plan. A late season injury and surgery eliminated the conflict. The internship became his professional job his first five years out of college.

My daughter’s summer college softball experience was easier. She took off for the weekend and played in 22u tournaments. Hotels and food were provided. She came home late Sunday night or Monday morning. No practices.

When I played (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) the games were Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday doubleheaders. There were beautiful summer Sundays I would wake up wishing I could go to the beach instead of playing two. When I got to the park I got over it. I was ready to go. Our furthest games were two hours away. No overnights.

I was “hosted” along with a teammate at my family’s summer place on the lake about a half hour from the home field. My parents were getting divorced. My mother never showed up. My father dropped by to socialize with neighbors and check the food supply. But he never stayed overnight. We had to make our own meals. There were lots of pregame fast food stops.

When I was a college kid there weren’t a lot of sanctioned  college summer programs like now. I played in a mostly D1 and released former pros semi pro league. It was disappointing to see the league sink to local D3’s then ultimately disband as better college summer ball options popped up.

One weekend in my late thirties I was with my wife and kids in the town where I played. We went by the park. There was a playground nearby for the kids. In the park was a MABL game. I saw a couple of local guys I played college summer ball with and against playing. They were a shell of their former selves as players. I told my wife not to every let me do that.

@anotherparent  nice post!  I was also kind of surprised by some of the negative comments.

If a player does not want to go play summer ball, there is no rule that says he has to. If he wants to go home, work, work out, be with his GF, that's ok. Tell the coach.

However, if the player needs at bats or innings, he really should play. If he isn't playing he should contact his coach who sent him. Also know that most college coaches speak to their players often during the summer. If your son has no contact with their coaches, that tells you something right there. Enough said.

Remember, as mentioned, there are plenty of local leagues your sons can play in and sleep in their own bed. And yes it's hot! Very.

Son didn't go to the Cape his first year, he was beat, his freshman year he logged about 80 innings. He spent his summer up at the lake with other players and made some money helping in camp, he needed a break from baseball, which many do. I completely agree with that.

Second summer he went to the Cape and played at Falmouth. Loved everything about it, loved his host family (still keeps in touch on FB). Host dad took them fishing on days off. As a starter at college, he was a reliever. Kept his innings down.

For all of those complaining, son was required to work 5 mornings a week for a few hours (no sleeping in) up at the field for camps. The money he earned was for weekly payment of $50 for his host family. He lived in a beautiful home and food was always in the fridge for him and his 2 teammates. We came to visit and host family took us out for lobster. The summer cost nothing for us but gas in his truck. He played in the all star game and went to Fenway paid by the league.  When host family was drafted they sent him a tie with STL logo. He did well in summer ball and I believe that helped in the draft.  Clemson played in Omaha, so when they were done they had to come home have exit interviews unpack and pack again and head to the Cape.

I have a friend whose son just went to his first summer program. He said it was crazy 2500-3000k. Savannah Banana type of antics and contests, prizes. He loved it but did have to leave early.

As a pitcher most do not practice in Junior fall ball but have instruction. Coaches realize players need time off and rest.

hokieone has been a long standing member of our community and GM of Strasburg Express. Again, surprised at some of the remarks. FWIW, he gave son his first coaching job out of college as pcoach and they were champions that summer. His host family treated him like a son.

As I posted in another topic, kids are different these days. Many are self centered and it's all about them. I kind of wonder if that's why that player that hokieone mentioned was in the portal!

@anotherparent posted:

- according to every thread ever on this site, college baseball is a grind, and you'd better really love the game if you want to do it.

- according to PABaseball and Francis7, players hate playing the game they supposedly love in summer leagues - "they're having their summer, their only time off, taken from them" - they would rather be at the lake with friends, or working in offices

If that is how you interpreted what was said then so be it but you have the ten year vet/owner of a collegiate league team (in a good collegiate league I may add) telling you that morale is down and they are canceling games because not enough guys want to be there.

The words are right there.

I like baseball, I can still point out its flaws. And if my kid told me the options were

A. To be broke and take 6 hour bus rides to play mostly meaningless baseball with a dugout full of kids who also don't want to be there in a league where very few are drafted.

B. Get a job/internship for future career, make some money, train on own time with pitching guys, and do whatever he wanted on the weekends

I'd let him make that decision for himself and I have a pretty good idea of what he would pick.

Last edited by PABaseball
@Francis7 posted:

I have NO experience here. But, I have heard from kids who have heard from others playing in the summer leagues that they hate it. Living with host families is either uncomfortable or down right a nightmare. Pitchers arms are tired. Catchers legs are tired. The schedule is a grind. It's hot. The fields and facilities are lacking. Again, this is all second hand via not trustworthy sources. But I have heard it more than once and repeatedly through the years.

Minor inconveniences for those that love the game. (Exception would be proper arm care including inning limits).

Last edited by RoadRunner

Wow, some interesting replies. For those that have sons that aspire to pro ball...that's probably 99% of them...a pro scout once called a team in our league to check their schedule as he wanted to see a particular player. The scout was told the player said he was "tired' and had gone home the previous week (about 35 games into a 42 game schedule). The scout's words: "That's great, I can take him off of my list. If he can't handle a 42 game schedule, he sure can't handle a minor league or major league schedule with triple that many games."   An under-rated part of summer ball is that players need to learn to get their sleep, get their rest, get their work in, and take care of their body...for 2 months, not 6 months as in the MLB, but a goods learning situation nevertheless.    It's not just a mid-week game and 3 more on weekends. With rain outs to be made up, occasionally we play 9-10 nights in a row. The coaches get guys nights off and it's a lot of games...but nothing like Milb or MLB.   For pitchers, pitch counts are closely monitored and the Pitch Smart rules are strictly enforced, but they too need to learn the value of getting into a routine, getting their work in, and getting their rest.   And quite a few pitchers have improved their golf game during the summers as well.       But I can tell you that the hard workers are noticed and whether in calls from college coaches shopping the portal or calls from scouts, a solid work ethic is always mentioned and always well-received.      

@hokieone posted:

Wow, some interesting replies. For those that have sons that aspire to pro ball...that's probably 99% of them...a pro scout once called a team in our league to check their schedule as he wanted to see a particular player. The scout was told the player said he was "tired' and had gone home the previous week (about 35 games into a 42 game schedule). The scout's words: "That's great, I can take him off of my list. If he can't handle a 42 game schedule, he sure can't handle a minor league or major league schedule with triple that many games."   An under-rated part of summer ball is that players need to learn to get their sleep, get their rest, get their work in, and take care of their body...for 2 months, not 6 months as in the MLB, but a goods learning situation nevertheless.    It's not just a mid-week game and 3 more on weekends. With rain outs to be made up, occasionally we play 9-10 nights in a row. The coaches get guys nights off and it's a lot of games...but nothing like Milb or MLB.   For pitchers, pitch counts are closely monitored and the Pitch Smart rules are strictly enforced, but they too need to learn the value of getting into a routine, getting their work in, and getting their rest.   And quite a few pitchers have improved their golf game during the summers as well.       But I can tell you that the hard workers are noticed and whether in calls from college coaches shopping the portal or calls from scouts, a solid work ethic is always mentioned and always well-received.      

I think you hit the nail on the head here, realistically maybe 25% should have pro aspirations or some number way below 99%

I also think the season isn't 2 months. The season starts 6 to 7 days a week in January for these guys and basically is a year round gig with a few breaks. Add in the class time, the fact that they aren't professionals yet and maturity is a bog part of that. Academics are a way bigger part of the picture for baseball players then some other sports...the list goes on.

I think baseball as an entity asks for a tremendous commitment while not providing many of the perks that football and basketball provide. 

Good conversation here as I can see both points very clearly.   HokieOne's 99% could apply to the freshmen or underclassmen who think they are on the fast track to MLB.  But I also see old_schools 25% applying to guys who have been around the block and seen exactly how difficult it is to 1) get playing time 2) get drafted or 3) just play anywhere at the next level.  I clearly understand the problem, but I don't have a solution.

When we first started at HSBBWeb many moons ago (son was a freshman in high school), I read a lot but did not post or contribute at all.   There was one post I remember very clearly, and it really stuck with me.   The point was that baseball (in general) is going to eventually chew you up and spit you out whether that was in high school, college, MiLB or MLB.   Everybody has a different timetable, but eventually baseball will come to an end on terms dictated to you.   Some of us can understand it, embrace it and prepare for it was kind of the gist of it.   Others don't or won't acknowledge it.   I think my son at 17 years old understood this (he's an old soul) as I explained it to him .  He decided he was going to turn the tables and use baseball as best he could for as long as he could until he could do something else professionally with as much passion as he had for baseball.  Honestly, I think more kids and young adults are thinking this way, and reading stories about the minor league salaries, conditions, less teams and more opportunities for world athletes (Latinos and Asians) to compete in US baseball.  Are kids today more practical, savvy and realistic?  I don't know the answer to that, but I know one kid who was.   

JMO.

Last edited by fenwaysouth

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