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Kids aren't stupid. When they receive what is perceived by them to be "good coaching" and they still fail, they move on.

If they had the "real deal" (coaching) and had the success they all deserve, they wouldn't leave the game as quickly.

But, who is in charge of youth baseball through high school in the USA.........Your neighbors and mine. Volunteers. 99% with no clue.

Holy Cow. Well-meaning but clueless people.

So, dads do what? Go to the local training center to find a teacher for the son. What do they find? Ex pros who could but can't. They played but can't begin to tell you what they did right. And the cycle continues every year.

Those who finally make it do so from stubborn trial and error. They have to ignore coaching to make it. Some can deal with that. Some can't.
Last edited by Linear
quote:
Player development is of no interest to 95% of them.
So basically teams just put an ad in the paper for a non-paying coaching position and the first person who phones gets the job, even if it was my grandma?

It seems to me, Linear, that it is YOU who seems to be trying to gain a ton of praise and recognition on here by challenging everyone's coaching beliefs and opinions, and even deny facts that BBScout has posted. Usually when someone posts stats based on populations there has been a background study. Those stats are facts, it's awfully hard to deny a fact: a fact being a proven statement. I think denying the facts and continually trying to be always right just shows alot about your character.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr3000:
...and even deny facts that BBScout has posted.


Don't get me wrong, I like bbscout. Can always have an educated discussion/debate with him. But, I must say, his facts are no different than anyone elses in my book.

quote:
...Usually when someone posts stats based on populations there has been a background study. Those stats are facts, it's awfully hard to deny a fact: a fact being a proven statement. I think denying the facts and continually trying to be always right just shows alot about your character.


I believe the facts bbscout posted had to do with upper, middle and lower class americans. And why they don't chose baseball. That is quite different from my point about why millions start and less than 100 get to the mlb level.
Last edited by Linear
So why don't you take the first move to change that?

Become a volanteer youth coach, you can do it, I challange you. Give back to the game that ripped your dark heart out.

Why did you "quit" coaching to begin with?

I am reminded of Uncle Rico from Napolean Dynamite

Rico: "How much you want to make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains? Yeah. If coach would've put me in fourth quarter... we'd have been state champions, no doubt. No doubt in my mind. You better believe things would have been different. I'd have gone pro...in a heartbeat. I'd be makin' millions of dollars and... livin' in a... big ol' mansion somewhere. You know, soakin' it up in a hot tub with my soul mate. Kip, I reckon you know a lot about cyberspace. Y-You ever come across anything like time travel?"

Sound familiar Richard? Rico.... hey how about that for a coincidence.
Last edited by Glove Man
And...............coaches do win trophies at showcases. The trophy is invisible but now the "standing" in their little world is priceless. Really pumps the ego.

"Well, so and so (his player) did this or did that at the showcase. Play for me and you could have similar results."

Now he takes that information, recruits him the best team out of his are and turns it into trophies.

Look what I did for so and so. When in reality, all he did was recruit so and so and make out the lineup card..
Last edited by Linear
quote:
Originally posted by bbscout:
quote:
Originally posted by Linear:
Kids aren't stupid. When they receive what is perceived by them to be "good coaching" and they still fail, they move on.

If they had the "real deal" (coaching) and had the success they all deserve, they wouldn't leave the game as quickly.

But, who is in charge of youth baseball through high school in the USA.........Your neighbors and mine. Volunteers. 99% with no clue.

Holy Cow. Well-meaning but clueless people.

So, dads do what? Go to the local training center to find a teacher for the son. What do they find? Ex pros who could but can't. They played but can't begin to tell you what they did right. And the cycle continues every year.

Those who finally make it do so from stubborn trial and error. They have to ignore coaching to make it. Some can deal with that. Some can't.


If that is the case, then who is teaching the Dominicans? The poor American kids can't afford an ex-pro coach, so in your thinking, they should then be better off, but they arn't, and they are dropping out of baseball.


NO ONE TEACHES THE DOMINICANS. They just play ball all day every day. It's their only chance. And a much higher percentage of Dominicans make it than Americans.

Why? Less coaching obstacles in the Domincan.
For all concerned I would like to keep on topic.

My concern is not how many African Amercians play baseball. I could care less what they do.

My only concern and all I care to discuss is the poor coaching that leads to millions of American kids falling short of their baseball potential.

Regardless of their color.

There is no question there are tons of options for all kids to chose from.

Let's talk about the ones who chose baseball and don't reach their goals. Why?

The "skill coaching" is horrendous. In fact, 90% is obstruction. Stands in the way of a hitters progress.
Last edited by Linear
Scout

Of all the people on this board, you are one of the few that I believe understand and do things for the right reasons.

Now, that being said, are you just so tired of me that you'll deny that the vast majority of all travel teams are not interested in player development? That the leader of the vast majority of those organizations couldn't begin to instruct a hitter on his skill? Or a pitcher on his skills?
OK. We agree. No skill coaching at "older" travel ball level?

Same at the younger level travel levels.

Same at the youth level. Volunteers coaches most with no background.

Same at the high school level. We know the qualifications for a high school coach.

Same at the beginning level. Well-meaning volunteers that have little or no background.

Now, where is all this good coaching everyone believes exists?

So, how do they learn. They stumble onto it themselves by trial and error and repetition.

What if there was good coaching. Hell, at this point I'd settle for non-obstructive coaching. Just stay out of a players way.
Last edited by Linear
Linear

So as to enlighten you in a field you that have no idea about:

SHOWCASES--there are no trophies and I know no coach who thinks as you do where a showcase is concerned--the coaches are there to showcase the kids not recruit

TRAVEL TEAMS--the key here is to refine the skills of the kids who are all fine players to begin with or they wouldn't be there--I am with bbscout here-- a travel team plays the best competition they can so as to get the players ready for the next level.Do the coaches coach and instruct? YES-- but in a different manner than you are aware of now or will ever be aware of

You know what Linear--you spout a lot of stuff but we know nothing about you-- good bad or indifferent I wear my heart on my sleeve, bbscout is who he is and many others are not afraid to be known--good, bad or indifferent I know I am proud of and know who and what I am.

I cant speak for others but I am sure they are as comfortable as well otherwise they would not open up.

Can you say the same ?

You seem frustrated in trying to impress everyone with how much you think you know.

But then I know what site to go to read what you say and with the same attitude as you as well


DUH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Would love to. Riddle me this. How many youth coaches do you know that will want to be told they know nothing? Even, if I can prove it.

I will guarantee you this though. If I live long enough. My grandsons/granddaughters will be on one of the best hitting teams ever to play the game at the level I get to coach them. Give me them when they begin. Then "test" them 3 years later.
Last edited by Linear
not talking college here Richard, we're talking youth ball, ages 10 to 18. Will you do it?

I want to pick up the ST Louis Post Dispatch and read where a local bar owner has given his precious time and vast knowledge to the local baseball teams.... for free. i'll put out the press release if you do it. Imagine the free pub you could get for your pool hall. it's a win-win opportunity!
Linear

you have not proved you know anything here so why should we suspect you can prove it to youth coaches

one other thing-- why not name the poster you are directing your statements to--it would help--but then you cannot do that can you because you cannot get to the point other than say you are the only correct one--wanna dance ?--name the tune

Postscript-- dont go near the 'riddle me" this thing--you aint THE RIDDLER---
Last edited by TRhit
quote:
Originally posted by TRHit:
How can I answer you if I know what site you speak?


quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
...But then I know what site to go to read what you say and with the same attitude as you as well...


If you can't keep a line of thought longer than 20 minutes I'm going to have to call you "ALZ MAN".
Last edited by Linear
...and now back to the topic. Swingbuster, your question is intriguing. Remember when Lau was the rage? He had a lot of success. Then others came in and changed a portion of that theory, created new terms and they were the rage. Why? IT SELLS!!! That as simple as I can say it! No I don't agree with all that Charlie Lau taught. I do respect the man and his accomplishments. So, what do you do? This isn't really about Linear/Teacherman/Ozzir/Rshard/... it's really about finding that style that you're convinced is correct then testing that to see if it really is what you believe. Then, it is defining that to your team or program. You have to do that by including those drills that you value and discarding those that you don't. Now, you test that and discussing hitting with others who's values you respect. Believe me, you will then find some flaws in what you knew to be the truth. Refine those some more and then teach what you know. Once you have done all of this, tell yourself that you will always be the student and not the expert but you impart your knowledge on your players. We can have a 1,000 opinions on who's right and wrong here. However, the proof is in the success of those kids you coach and the knowledge that you did your best!
Last edited by CoachB25
Linear,

As I told you before. "Shock and Awe" marketing is a bad idea. Wink

Just state your opinions about how you teach hitting. That may have value. We know you have no credentials whatsoever - but you articulate well IMO. - And that may have value.

The rest of your stuff about youth coaching is utter nonsense. You need to travel a bit - get on the road for 100 days or so - go to the facilities - watch the coaching - and experience the real deal.

I know that isnt original - but You know what I know. The original marketing concept is failing - miserably.

LOL

Wink
Last edited by itsinthegame
B25,

As a coach you must create a hitting system at your school that works. You find the absolutes and go with them.

I believe that Englishbey's

Posture, connect, rotate is efficient. It can be the similar to nostride, bat in 45 slot, drop and tilt...although they would say not exactly but as far as player understanding pretty close.

The connect portion ...I take to mean the bottom hand lead shoulder connects to the turn quickly helps get the barrel out in the zone with force.

To best do that...IMO...the details.....

the lead elbow is down close to the body ( maybe what you mean with the towel drill) as the stride or shift begins.

If the top hand is pronated ( palm over/ bat cocked) then the rear elbow elevates and internally rotates to get in the proper position inside the target line.

then...

Rear elbow action is up(top palm angles down) then elbow internally rotates then slots/ external rotation/ top palm up.

A slight plane change from at least splitting helmet to 45 launch aids this rear elbow action and makes loading work well.

It insures the fact that the hands will come out knob to oppo box and the barrel will get out there from flail.

The lead elbow starts close to pect then as the bat flattens it goes into the plane of the pitch.
quote:
My concern is not how many African Amercians play baseball. I could care less what they do.


So basically, you believe in discrimination towards other of a different race and only coaching the gifted athletes who can learn something one way.

quote:
For all concerned I would like to keep on topic.


It is on topic and BBscout has kept it on topic. You are the one who is back tracking and trying to hide your tail under your legs cause you've been put on the spot and don't have an answer. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't you say
quote:
The point I'm making is the vast majority of players that make it, can not point to anything but their own trial and error process that got them there. What got them there was learned on their own, and with most cases their dad. Again, vast majority.
BBscout asked you or stated that if this is true then why aren't more African Americans playing baseball because in the inner city they learn the game by their on trial and error.

quote:
Let's talk about the ones who chose baseball and don't reach their goals. Why?


Maybe, they decided they didn't want to play anymore because of the work needed to get better, decided to get a job, wanted more time to spend with their friends, and etc... It could be many reasons instead of your simple minded answer reagarding the lack of coaching. I think the real truth is a dream didn't happen for someone you know and now instead of blaming them or yourself, you just decide to blame the coaching rank ...Grandpa.

quote:
out of his are


Before criticizing others for improper language usage, learn to spell the simple words such as area. And you say you used to be a teacher, hmmm no wonder you quit, I would have to with your horrendous spelling.
quote:
player development


I don't think you are to worried about player development with some of your simple minded answers and replies. I think you paint the kettle black and are trying to be something you are not because you are no different then anyone here just a better liar and con. Because if you were as worried about the quality of coaching in the U.S., you would be volunteering your time to make sure kids are given a chance to learn the skill of hitting but you hide and reply with wait until my grandkids start playing. You are a fraud who is looking for a pat on the back for something you didn't even come up with on your own...


Scooter
Last edited by Scooter
I do believe, in fact I know, that Linear's hitting beliefs are genuine and grounded in truth and fact.....He does have an exemplary understanding of how to get the bat around to the ball in the most efficient manner presently known......And, this is because of the willingness of a certain person to share his knowledge, whose name can't be mentioned on this website.....

Problem is, you can't just tell baseball Coaches, or players, to forget everything they ever learned about swinging a bat.....They have to feel an efficient (high level) swing in their bones to understand what Linear is saying.....Until this happens, the understanding part won't happen.....
Linear,

I know you can teach hitting. I have no doubt

My son graduated too. He had a good Senior Year but loved other parts of life more than baseball. To play beyond HS is a great commitment starting about your soph year and lasting until 22.

I was asked to teach our HS hitters by the Head Master and Head Coach. I have done it before but backed off as my son entered his HS playing time.

I am more interested in the individual instruction. There are kids that need help and want help. Whether we produce college level players or beyond is not the point. That would be a math equation dealing with the pool of kids you had at your disposal coupled with coaching talent too.

I love teaching and hang out here to get my fix until practice begins. I have refocused my objectives and learned some good cues in the last couple of weeks.

I miss my son badly but I want back on the horse. I see my baseball kids past and present all over town and I love those connections
Bluedog and Swingbuster,

I understand your points about Linear. My problem is with the fact that he always critizes but never offers explanations of why he believes his system is right. It is just we are wrong and he is right. How hard would it be for him to come on here and state his system step for step and then let us other coaches decide if we want to use it or not. Swingbuster doesn't come on here and belittle people for disagreeing with his system.


Scooter
Last edited by Scooter
I am afraid Ny**** taught some good mechanics but set a bad example for human tolerance. NY*** nomes do insist that people get their facts straight or be prepared to be challenged. They have produced some good info and observations that make sense and have helped me. They need to study the upper body physics more objectively as there is room to better describe it. They tend to get things right when they decide they exist. Need to spend more time promoting and distributing good info and less about who gets the credit
quote:
Originally posted by Scooter:
... never offers explanations of why he believes his system is right.


My explanations are all over this website.

Just because you don't understand them OR are too fricking lazy to search for them doesn't mean they don't exist.

EXAMPLE: In this very thread the discussion on moving your center to create momentum and the loading/unloading of your center is good stuff. However, you don't recognize it. Why? Because it's over your head at this time.

It's like asking a 4th grader to factor a binomial (algebra). Yet, they are just now learning their multiplication table.

Your problem is you don't know enough to understand what is right in front of you.

When you get an education you'll understand.

Start your study process now. Soon, you'll get it.

Until then stop embarassing yourself.

BTW, you aren't alone.
Last edited by Linear
Linear,
I’ll make you a deal. (Pending approval by the site administrator) If you will document (and post) all aspects of what you believe to be the proper methods of hitting without the barbs and accusation toward others, I will lock that post and allow it to be part of the HSBBW. Like most people on the HSBBW I am unaware of your total philosophy of hitting. Sure I’ve read snippets in between verbal exchanges, but what I’m suggesting would be your contribution and yours alone. What do you say?
Thanks,
Fungo
DISCLAIMER: I am not involved financially in any way shape or form with S E T P R O. In fact, I was banned from their site in mid December.

I have been on a lifelong quest to get to the bottom of what it takes to be a hitter.

I have never claimed this stuff to be "mine". I'm just a motivated student. Motivated enough to spend upwards of 20 hours per week studying and teaching for the last 5 years. I've done the trial and error thing. I've got almost every video or book on hitting. I've bought every gadget that I thought was interesting. BTW, most are junk. Get a T and a net and a video camera and start swinging.

The trial and error thing involves thousands of hours. If you'd like to reduce your trial and error period, listen to what is being taught at S E T P R O .com.

Just create a permanent link to S E T P R O .com or hitting-mechanics.org.
No need for a locked thread of mine. This isn't my stuff. It's all documented on their site(s).

If the hsbaseballweb was interested in promoting the best baseball information available, they'd give S E T P R O their endorsement.

Before TR and all the other 1st rungers say "who has he developed". Consider he's only been around for 5 years or so. That the majority of players he gets are "on their last leg". They have engrained mechanics that require thousands of hours to change.....most unwilling to make the changes because they have to go back before they can go forward....and their current level of competition can not deal with that. They won't play if they can't produce.

However, they are working with a significant number of youngsters. In 5-10 years the S E T P R O impact will be felt.
Last edited by Linear
Linear,

I am not embarassing myself cause I am not the one going around saying they are GOD. I do understand what you are talking about and it has been around for a long time, the only difference is it is stated in different terms.

Example, you talk about loading and unloading your center...to me that means going back before you can go forward. Basically, loading your body to guarantee proper rotational force from the ground up which will give you more power and bat quickness. In other words, coil up like a snake and explode.


Now, I dont need all the technical mumbo-jumbo you have to use to get the message across.

By the way moron, stop embarassing yourself by back-peddling over issues that you are afraid to answer and quit using statements that I can go read on a website.. Put your system in your own words.


Scooter
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