HS coach won't play son

BBDAD98 posted:

3and2fastball, fair enough your ego would be hurt so you wouldn't field the best 9. I hear ya. The other kids are talking behind your back but someone has the guts to ask hey why don't we do this or that and their the problem. Fair enough, at least you admit to it. I like your honesty. I can handle honesty. This coach has been dishonest and most people can't and want see it.

The freshman and JV teams are about molding players for varsity. No one outside the players and their parents care if the freshman or JV teams wins or loses.  Player development is part of the molding. So is having the right attitude. I’m with 3and2.

My son was the best player on the JV team when he was a freshman. Two other kids were promoted to varsity over my son. My son knew why. He never made the mistake again. 

The decision may have prevented a 6-16 varsity team from winning a game or two more. But the lesson learned helped him be a valuable player on a 15-7 varsity team the following year and a team leader the next two years.

Buckeye i am trying to tell you these freshman and some sophomore guys my son plays with would not make the major travel teams. They are rec allstar players except for the few that did travel from a different town. I am not stating that my son should be on varsity, i am stating how crazy it is to move them up and not take him as well. None should be going up. They are not ready. If they happen to see a reason to not play my son on JV then he said he would rather be on freshman instead of dealing with this BS. The last time he played at east cobb we played 4 east cobb teams and lost to the titans and beat the other 3 last year. When he was 13. He had 9 AB with four hits, 1 single, 1 double, and 2 hr batting leadoff, 5 rbi, 3 runs, 2 walks, 2 ks, and 2 stolen bases. We beat the other teams pretty easy and lost to the titans by 1 point extra innings. He has committed to a team that invited him to play up at the 15u level, but looking at their schedule they will play in 16u wood bat tournaments and will travel as far as Lakeland FL. He tried out and made an Eastcobb 14u which would have been extremely hard for us to travel that far but they were considered their 2nd best team eastcobb offered and after the best team and 2nd team lost some players they reorganized and he was out. Thats what I was told. It all sounded strange but he moved on and made two other major teams and when he was choosing which one the 15u team coach slash owner called. My son has wanted to play for him. So he looks forward to earning that spot were he knows the talent is good and he will need to bring his A game. We have talked about this and he accepts the challenge to play with a good team. I love it that you guys don't believe me. I can't make this stuff up. Whether you like me or not or think my kid can play doesn't matter to me, because this is for real.

It has nothing to do with Coach's ego.  A coach needs the players to show respect to each other and to the coach, otherwise everything falls apart.  

To raise a kid to believe that they are entitled to break that very basic protocol of respecting a coach and not throwing their teammates under the bus is just flat out bad parenting, and as already mentioned by someone else, could jeopardize their career.

Yes, I am judging you.

Freshman, 2 seam, 4 seam, changeup and a SLIDER.

HMMMM...You guys got trolled on. 

Sorry. But it is called holding someone accountable. He did not attack anyone. He wanted to know about the signs and who had the bag and high long leg lifts as a pitcher and so forth. He was on more than one team that held each other accountable. It was not mean it was do your job, if you don't know how someone will help you. He was told not to yell anything from behind the plate anymore. Guess what all of the catchers do this year, hold each other accountable and yell stuff. He was told to stop cheering, so he did, this year coach wants everyone in the game cheering. This year someone missed a sign and stole and got out. They ran poles for their error. So it is about ego the coach knew he was right. My son has had many coaches from Soccer, football, track, baseball, and basketball and i have heard many praise him for his leadership and super competitiveness. Football coaches have loved the way he leads as QB and middle line backer in middle school. I get it he is not for everyone, fine don't hold him down and make him miserable. He is a good kid, and I try to help him navigate his teenage testosterone anger and he does good. Is social security an entitlement or is it some thing you worked for? He is not entitled he wants to earn it at a reasonable price. He just wants to hit and play the field. Coach said if you hit you can play. Some batting .100 still starting. He is not looking to be on any team that doesn't want him to play. If he has to move down he would. The coaches send mix signals about what it takes to get playing time or move up. Thats what it boils down to. They don't like some kids for differnent reasons. Some kids can improve, my son will most likely not improve the coach liking him. You can't make someone like you. You just can't.

Whats so hard about a slider? Curve grip fastball arm motion. Look up Lance Wheeler. See which pitch Jesus wants you to throw. Curve or Slider? The video might be locked. But it explains how to pick and how to throw it. We have 2 leftys on JV throwing sliders now.

BBdad, is this your oldest kid?  Your only?

StrainedOblique posted:

The simple answer to the playing time riddle is that Coaches play kids that they believe can help them win. Period. This applies not only at the HS level but also college .

That being said , if a kid in fact believes he can help his team win and the Coach sees it differently , the player ( never the parent ) needs to speak to the coach . He needs to be direct and ask the Coach what it's gonna take for him to play or move up to Varsity in this case. At this point most coaches are pretty straight forward in explaining to a player what he needs to do or what the coach needs from him to advance .

It's pretty simple. But most HS kids are afraid to approach the coach. That is sort of a developmental thing at that age. But if he's truly unhappy or unclear about his role or future he needs to start there.

Don't let your son or yourself get caught up in the age old excuse of 'The Coach just doesn't like me' . That is a mistake and will just cloud your judgment . Because it's irrelevant. Remember , HS Coaches play the kids that can help them win. Period. They have 16-21 guys on Varsity , of those 16-21 guys , sure there may be a couple kids he likes personally more than others and occasionally a dislike and more often than not indifference towards some players, but it will rarely change how he makes out his line up card.

A bad student, bad attitude jerk that touches 88-90 mph will pitch at the HS level regardless of the coaches personal opinion of him. Don't forget that.

Have your son talk to the coach about what it's gonna take to advance in the program. After the meeting sit down with your son and put together a plan to accomplish those goals. Then have him go back to the coach once your son has improved in those areas and Hold the coach to his word.

Strained, I might have to respectfully disagree on the jerk statement. A very talented kid who was on Varsity last year as a Freshman didn’t make our Varsity team this year because he didn’t show up for early morning workouts and told everyone he didn’t have to because he was their best (position). The coach didn’t buy it. He’s sitting on the sophomore team. Not all coaches will tolerate jerkiness.

TPM posted:

---

Freshman, 2 seam, 4 seam, changeup and a SLIDER.

HMMMM...You guys got trolled on. 

Not agreeing with the poster but my son threw a slider at 14.  His arm slot didn’t allow for a curve, only a slider.

Wow so much, so little time.  Add me to the group that thinks this is fake.  But let's play along.  I am generally very hard on coaches -- I expect the best from them.  And I certainly see issues here.  In fact, in many ways the OP could be describing my kid's HS team -- pitchers slow to the plate, bad mechanics, low baseball IQ, little accountability.  In our case, much was due to being severely understaffed.  

But the kid in question sounds the a real "treat."  And the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.  It's not the kid's job to hold anyone accountable but himself.  It's about picking up your teammates and covering for their mistakes.  Pitcher gives up a walk -- that's ok, we'll turn two.  SS boots a ball -- we'll get the next one.  Pitcher throws WP that gets to the backstop -- catcher stands up and let's everyone know that "on me."  Kid strikes out with bases loaded -- no problem, next kid is going to hit a double.  Little Johnny has to run poles because he didn't get the bunt down -- we all run poles.  You just booted your 4th ball of the game -- SS comes over and gives you a hug. 

CaCO3Girl posted:

TPM posted:

---

Freshman, 2 seam, 4 seam, changeup and a SLIDER.

HMMMM...You guys got trolled on. 

Not agreeing with the poster but my son threw a slider at 14.  His arm slot didn’t allow for a curve, only a slider.

Most younger players throw whats called a slurve. Combo of a curve and a slider. Most pitchers throw either or. But if someone is teaching a young HS player a true slider, the parent needs to reevaluate their sons situation.

BBDAD98 posted:

Whats so hard about a slider? Curve grip fastball arm motion. Look up Lance Wheeler. See which pitch Jesus wants you to throw. Curve or Slider? The video might be locked. But it explains how to pick and how to throw it. We have 2 leftys on JV throwing sliders now.

Once again, if someone is teaching a developing teen a slider the parent needs to reevaluate their sons situation. You know it took son almost 2 years to throw a true slider and that was in pro ball. His off speed in HS was his 2 seamer and change up, which you claim was both used. Used to be the go to pitch in college, one after another but things have changed its not a good pitch.

Are you a pitching coach. If so what are your credentials?

I don't think anybody has pitching-related injuries completely figured out, but I do think ASMI and Dr. Andrews are as good anybody (and better than most).  And they definitely say sliders aren't for younger kids: 

 http://www.andrewsinstitute.co...Prevention/Baseball/

http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/risk-factors/

Do folks here have a different take?

Chico Escuela posted:

I don't think anybody has pitching-related injuries completely figured out, but I do think ASMI and Dr. Andrews are as good anybody (and better than most).  And they definitely say sliders aren't for younger kids: 

 http://www.andrewsinstitute.co...Prevention/Baseball/

http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/risk-factors/

Do folks here have a different take?

My son was taught to throw a curve, due to his arm slot it became a slider.

As to different takes, yup.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/201...g-pitching-arms.html

http://amp.si.com/edge/2016/06...-baseball-prevention

Also, Dr. Andrews says don’t throw until you can shave.  My son was shaving by then, so it’s in line with Dr. Andrews thinking as well.

CaCO3Girl posted:

My son was taught to throw a curve, due to his arm slot it became a slider.

As to different takes, yup.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/201...g-pitching-arms.html

http://amp.si.com/edge/2016/06...-baseball-prevention

Also, Dr. Andrews says don’t throw until you can shave.  My son was shaving by then, so it’s in line with Dr. Andrews thinking as well.

I have seen those links before, but thanks.  They deal with curve balls though, not sliders.  ASMI says kids can learn curves earlier; sliders should come later.

TPM posted:

BBDAD98 posted:

Whats so hard about a slider? Curve grip fastball arm motion. Look up Lance Wheeler. See which pitch Jesus wants you to throw. Curve or Slider? The video might be locked. But it explains how to pick and how to throw it. We have 2 leftys on JV throwing sliders now.

Once again, if someone is teaching a developing teen a slider the parent needs to reevaluate their sons situation. You know it took son almost 2 years to throw a true slider and that was in pro ball. His off speed in HS was his 2 seamer and change up, which you claim was both used. Used to be the go to pitch in college, one after another but things have changed its not a good pitch.

Are you a pitching coach. If so what are your credentials?

I taught my pitchers to throw a cut fastball instead of the slider.  I just was uncomfortable teaching a "real slider" and I have coached for a few years.  

BBDAD98, I'll play along.  You say your son is a freshman and yet, you are complaining about playing time.  Wow.  Instead of that, consistent support would go a lot further in his development.  Complaining about a coach and or supporting his complaints about a coach will serve no positive purpose.  I'll tell you about a player I once  coached.  This was supposed to be our next superstar.  How do I know that?  Dad did gave his best effort to tell me even though I told him I didn't want to talk to him.  Like you, he knew ever stat.  He played absolutely terrible competition.  When put up against those who actually did play tough competition, he was in the lower tier.  Still, he was a "super star."  When I attempted to coach him, he has his own expert.  So, he gave the complimentary nod and did what he wanted.  Of course it irritated me.  Of course, he started out 0-18.  So, the fault was ........... mine according to dad.  Needless to say, he never got a chance to go 0 - 19.  There is a small lesson in that story if you want to glean it.  

CoachB25, thanks for your reply.  My freshman on varsity was starting to complain about hitting 9th.  Pretty much all seniors on his team except for him.  HS baseball much more complicated than travel ball.  After the last game, he was very frustrated, so we hit in the cage for over an hour.  Talked about hitting more and complaining less.  I am fairly new here, but am enjoying all of your opinions so far, and will try to contribute from what I see here in Southern California HS and travel ball.

billsfanla posted:

CoachB25, thanks for your reply.  My freshman on varsity was starting to complain about hitting 9th.  Pretty much all seniors on his team except for him.  HS baseball much more complicated than travel ball.  After the last game, he was very frustrated, so we hit in the cage for over an hour.  Talked about hitting more and complaining less.  I am fairly new here, but am enjoying all of your opinions so far, and will try to contribute from what I see here in Southern California HS and travel ball.

It’s funny looking back after it’s all done and worked out (son is turning 25) the little things are forgotten until someone posts something that sparks a memory. 

My son was the only opening day soph starter in a large high school. He batted last. He finished second on the team in hitting and stolen bases. But he never moved out of the nine hole. I just figured it was because he was the young player. After the last game of a successful season (team went from 6-16 to 15-7) the coach told him he expected him to lead and star starting next year. 

If a player does the right things and dad minds his own business it all works out.

baseballhs posted:

What about when the coach decides that your sophomore is a PO even though he doesn't want to be  and doesn't need to be?  I could maybe live with it if he still let him take reps but he won't even let him do that.  He is not a PO for summer but if he never gets reps during the year he won't be ready.  Trying to be respectful but its getting tough.

Reps are too limited in HS. That's stuff he'll need to do on his own to keep sharp. 

Son is a  talented defensive player who can play any position but C. In his pre season meeting with the HC, he is asked his least favorite position. Son says, " I'll play anywhere, coach." Coach asks again. "Wherever you want me to play, coach." Coach demands to know where he really would prefer not to play. Son says LF.

First game of the season, guess where he is playing. 

baseballhs posted:

What about when the coach decides that your sophomore is a PO even though he doesn't want to be  and doesn't need to be?  I could maybe live with it if he still let him take reps but he won't even let him do that.  He is not a PO for summer but if he never gets reps during the year he won't be ready.  Trying to be respectful but its getting tough.

had the same thing happen except the HS coach was also his TB coach as well...moved TB team winter of Junior year...didn't see the field at all Junior year in high school (only 3 ABs)...on fire during summer and down at lakepoint and only pitched one inning all summer...committed to D3 as an OF...starting OF for HS this year. 

Do I think the HS coach didn't start him as a position player because he thought my son was a PO?...yes.  Does it matter?...hell no. 

Coach has changed tunes this year and has used him more than once in reference to him not losing sight of his goal and never giving up. 

57special posted:

Son is a  talented defensive player who can play any position but C. In his pre season meeting with the HC, he is asked his least favorite position. Son says, " I'll play anywhere, coach." Coach asks again. "Wherever you want me to play, coach." Coach demands to know where he really would prefer not to play. Son says LF.

First game of the season, guess where he is playing. 

 

When push came to shove, my kid said the bump. He makes Ricky Vaughn look like Maddux, so after 1/3, he was done.

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

When Ryno was younger, he definitely got hosed, and didn't make an All Star team.  Completely unfair, but do you know what I told him?  GET BETTER!  Use it as fuel!  Get so good that there is no way that they can keep you off the team.  He did, and I don't think he would have if I had given him a bunch of excuses to use.

I like the discussion guys. Again I have not talked to the coach. My son is discouraged at this point in time and has not been a bad team mate. The coach has not told my son this year that he has a problem. My son played good last year when given the chance and lead the team in offense, which is what he did most of the time DH in the 4 hole. My son is doing good this year in spite of the frustration he is feeling. Side note last year we had a CF that started and batted every game and he was at the top also. This year he hasn't started but is now out performing the others in hits and has fewer at bats. His mom has been very vocal from the stands. She works for the county and says the coach does not like her and is taking it out on her son. I don't know what the issue is with her and him, but she is not shy about her opinion of him. We have 4 10th graders on JV with the other 11 being freshmen. I don't think they have seen that many freshman taking this many spots on JV before. Which is a good problem but it seems unorganized on how they seem to pick who plays. Our 9th grade team has 14 8th graders and 1 freshman who played great last year but he was injured at first and they needed a catcher. Update my son played LF a little last game and he had a sliding catch and a game saving throw to home to keep the tieing run at 3rd. The throw was an error from the catcher that ended up in LF. The kid was fast and halfway home when my son threw a strike and the runner made it back to 3rd in a run down. It was a very exciting game.

baseballhs posted:

rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

When Ryno was younger, he definitely got hosed, and didn't make an All Star team.  Completely unfair, but do you know what I told him?  GET BETTER!  Use it as fuel!  Get so good that there is no way that they can keep you off the team.  He did, and I don't think he would have if I had given him a bunch of excuses to use.

 

How do you ever prove yourself if you can’t take reps even in practice?  I don’t make excuses but I don’t believe a coach should put a kid in a box with no way to get out.

Sadly this falls under the life isn't fair category.

If the coach has 5 other kids that CAN do the job and he is questioning if your kid can or can't...then he doesn't have to let him try.

BBDAD98, please check your PM's.  Upper right hand side, near your name, you will see a red circle.  Click your name, go to private messages.

Ya'll are being played.  This guys story has changed so many times.  He is just messing with ya'll.  How about let's close this down.   He does talk a good game and his story in different parts is realistic for so many kids I have been around.  Kids and parents think they can act up and a coach will just forgive and forget. 

PitchingFan posted:

Ya'll are being played.  This guys story has changed so many times.  He is just messing with ya'll.  How about let's close this down.   He does talk a good game and his story in different parts is realistic for so many kids I have been around.  Kids and parents think they can act up and a coach will just forgive and forget. 

You may be right, but if you are right and he's trolling,  he's the one wasting his precious time writing reams of this stuff, so the joke's on him.

Welcome back BBdad.  I'll try again as you may have missed my questions...

Is this your oldest kid?  Your only?  You said new town/school.  When was that and what brought about the change?

Only, no. Oldest yes. Moved for work. County has several schools this one has the best academics and happens to have the best baseball. Other schools excel at football, basketball, track and so forth. Academics and safety were our top priorities. We moved last year he has played for this school twice now.

Where is Ga do you live?

baseballhs posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

baseballhs posted:

rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

When Ryno was younger, he definitely got hosed, and didn't make an All Star team.  Completely unfair, but do you know what I told him?  GET BETTER!  Use it as fuel!  Get so good that there is no way that they can keep you off the team.  He did, and I don't think he would have if I had given him a bunch of excuses to use.

 

How do you ever prove yourself if you can’t take reps even in practice?  I don’t make excuses but I don’t believe a coach should put a kid in a box with no way to get out.

Sadly this falls under the life isn't fair category.

If the coach has 5 other kids that CAN do the job and he is questioning if your kid can or can't...then he doesn't have to let him try.

He doesn't have 5.  He just made a decision.  My son was ranked 3 in the state  26 nationally on PG for the position he can't even take reps at.  It is definitely in the life isn't fair category.

His travel coach much love him, so at least he has that

Coaches have their reasons for holding back JV/Fr players and/or bringing up inferior players to V, but if your son flat out asked the coach, I feel the coach should've told him straight up what the deal was.  Players don't know what coaches expect from them until they're told what it is.  If you can't do what your coach tells you, then you can go have a seat on the bench.  

BBDAD98 posted:

Only, no. Oldest yes. Moved for work. County has several schools this one has the best academics and happens to have the best baseball. Other schools excel at football, basketball, track and so forth. Academics and safety were our top priorities. We moved last year he has played for this school twice now.

OK, thanks.  That gives added perspective.  

So, here's my last contribution...

One of your comments was that you came to vent and that is totally fine... in fact a good place to vent.  You've had pretty thick skin through some of the criticism here and seem to have taken heart to some of the points.   But if you REALLY want the situation to improve... (and I'm not just talking about on the baseball field)...

Based on some of your replies and the timing of them, IMO, you are missing a few of the most important points.  It is particularly difficult with our first kid when it comes to letting go of some things.  I suggest you go back and read through the thread again and really try to pick up on the consistent messages.   This is not an issue of how good your son is or isn't.  It is not an issue of how good his coaches are or aren't.  It's about perspective.

Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.   That's the very short version in a cliche quote.  Protecting and defending our kids with every negative thing that happens to them can be a natural reaction.  It isn't doing them any good.  

"Coach not going to name names or single anybody out but there are some guys in the lineup that are really struggling. I'm not asking for a spot in the lineup, just some more opportunities. What do I need to do to get more opportunities?"

IMO - I'd skip this one and let the other questions suffice.  If coach then asks "who", are you going to name names?  Maybe tell him it rhymes with "Hobby" or "Silly" and avoid calling out your teammates.  I think the first three questions are more than adequate to get your position across and start the conversation.  Maybe just drop the struggling comment and go with the rest.

Weird thread.  I vote trolling on the OP.

Nicks mom posted:

Is there anything I can do as a parent?

Short answer - No. 

As others have indicated it's up to your son to prove or show his coach he would be invaluable to be in the line up and on the field.   Practice hard and play hard when he gets a chance that the coach has no choice but to put him in the lineup and on the field.  It's not just the performance in games, but what he does in practice as well.

Like it or not, it is the coach's team to run, not the parents.

Cabbagedad, thanks for the sincere comments. I am a calm person. My son is also like me with an extra boost of hormones. He is what i think a typical first born and a rule follower as I was and my wife. I get that it is the coaches team, and I hope he finds employment else where. He is very immature and inexperience. He coached against my old high school budy one game. My buddy had no clue about him, i had not spoken to him in 10 years or more. My friend called me the next day and asked why was that coach such a jerk, and he said that kids these days will not respond to his style of coaching. My friend was a travel ball coach before a HS coach and that may have something to do with it. You need experience and this coach has none. Sorry. To make things worse after the bad year my son had last year this coach would not let it go. How do i know? We had a fund raiser game in which the JV and Varsity get picked by 2 coaches and they battle it out for bragging rights. My son had an excused absents from practice 2 days prior for an academic after school project. On game day he inform my son that he would not play for missing practice. My son said but it was excused, but the coach said no. We have a baseball code of conduct that the parents, players, and coaches must sign, and hold each other accountable. My son followed the rules perfectly. My wife email the Varsity coach and ask if we misunderstood the rules for excused academic absents. The Varsity coach said that my son did right and should have played. After they lost the fund raiser game the losers had to run poles. Which ment my son ran poles in a game that he was wrongfully not allow to play and help win. As far as all the advice about working so hard that the Coach can't keep you out of the lineup. In case you missed it thats why my son hits, you can't deny that he can hit. The coach most likely hates everytime he has to put him in. He holds him back just to see if someone will rise up so he doesn't have to play him at all. Same with the other kid i mention. The coach wants certain players to earn those spots so the others can't. I will let it go now. I'm done. You can think it is fake or whatever. I will not respond anymore. Thanks for the good advice.

Well, I guess your son has a choice to make.  Play baseball under this HS JV coach and make the best of it.  Or find another school to play for - I know - easier said than done.

baseballhs posted:

rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

When Ryno was younger, he definitely got hosed, and didn't make an All Star team.  Completely unfair, but do you know what I told him?  GET BETTER!  Use it as fuel!  Get so good that there is no way that they can keep you off the team.  He did, and I don't think he would have if I had given him a bunch of excuses to use.

 

How do you ever prove yourself if you can’t take reps even in practice?  I don’t make excuses but I don’t believe a coach should put a kid in a box with no way to get out.

Do ALL of the little things right.  Do ALL of the little things right.  Right now we have a player fighting for a spot his senior year.  On deck batter, man on third less than 2 outs, deep fly ball -- what are u doing?  You better know or you'll be sitting.   

baseballhs posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

baseballhs posted:

rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

When Ryno was younger, he definitely got hosed, and didn't make an All Star team.  Completely unfair, but do you know what I told him?  GET BETTER!  Use it as fuel!  Get so good that there is no way that they can keep you off the team.  He did, and I don't think he would have if I had given him a bunch of excuses to use.

 

How do you ever prove yourself if you can’t take reps even in practice?  I don’t make excuses but I don’t believe a coach should put a kid in a box with no way to get out.

Sadly this falls under the life isn't fair category.

If the coach has 5 other kids that CAN do the job and he is questioning if your kid can or can't...then he doesn't have to let him try.

He doesn't have 5.  He just made a decision.  My son was ranked 3 in the state  26 nationally on PG for the position he can't even take reps at.  It is definitely in the life isn't fair category.

If your son is ranked 26th nationally at a position by PG, and the HS coach won't even let him take practice reps at the position, I'd seriously consider finding a new HS.    

Handcontrol posted:

baseballhs posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

baseballhs posted:

rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

If your son is ranked 26th nationally at a position by PG, and the HS coach won't even let him take practice reps at the position, I'd seriously consider finding a new HS.    

I was curious about that when he made the statement.  PG is pretty good at ranking kids...especially when they are that high.  I'm curious what position he is ranked #3 at?  We know a few things....1) he doesn't throw hard enough to be a pitcher  2) he has already admitted he can't throw guys out from catcher 3) he isn't nearly fast enough to be ranked in the top 26 nationally at an OF position....and there's been no mention of him being an IF....so what's left?  

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Handcontrol posted:

baseballhs posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

baseballhs posted:

rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

If your son is ranked 26th nationally at a position by PG, and the HS coach won't even let him take practice reps at the position, I'd seriously consider finding a new HS.    

I was curious about that when he made the statement.  PG is pretty good at ranking kids...especially when they are that high.  I'm curious what position he is ranked #3 at?  We know a few things....1) he doesn't throw hard enough to be a pitcher  2) he has already admitted he can't throw guys out from catcher 3) he isn't nearly fast enough to be ranked in the top 26 nationally at an OF position....and there's been no mention of him being an IF....so what's left?  

The 26th PG ranking is BASEBALLHS, not BBDAD98.  That would really be a red flag lol.

Am I allowed to get retroactively ticked off? I forgot to do so ten years ago. My son was an all conference shortstop ten years ago as a soph. A less talented soph came up the following year. My son was moved to center. It’s not fair! It’s not fair! It’s not fair! As a parent I was sooooo humiliated.

It doesn’t matter that the team won the conference the next two years with my son playing center. The new shortstop made a bunch of errors. He didn’t go on to college ball like my son. My son was removed from “the stud position.” It’s not fair!

It's an oldie but a goodie:

There are only two positions on a baseball team: on the field, or off.

KC12, you may wake up a year from now to find out that your son's HS coach has done him a huge favor by giving him reps at OF.

A couple years ago I heard a few parents at a school in our league complain that a player was getting screwed because he was being moved from the IF, where he was all league, to OF for his senior year.  Turns out getting screwed prepared him for Juco, where they needed him to play both OF and MIF.  He's done great for 2 years at this Juco, which is one of the best in the state, and I'm sure he'll have a nice D1 or D2 home next year.

(Edit:  Looks like comment I was replying to was deleted.)

BBDAD98 posted:

Cabbagedad, thanks for the sincere comments. I am a calm person. My son is also like me with an extra boost of hormones. He is what i think a typical first born and a rule follower as I was and my wife. I get that it is the coaches team, and I hope he finds employment else where. He is very immature and inexperience. He coached against my old high school budy one game. My buddy had no clue about him, i had not spoken to him in 10 years or more. My friend called me the next day and asked why was that coach such a jerk, and he said that kids these days will not respond to his style of coaching. My friend was a travel ball coach before a HS coach and that may have something to do with it. You need experience and this coach has none. Sorry. To make things worse after the bad year my son had last year this coach would not let it go. How do i know? We had a fund raiser game in which the JV and Varsity get picked by 2 coaches and they battle it out for bragging rights. My son had an excused absents from practice 2 days prior for an academic after school project. On game day he inform my son that he would not play for missing practice. My son said but it was excused, but the coach said no. We have a baseball code of conduct that the parents, players, and coaches must sign, and hold each other accountable. My son followed the rules perfectly. My wife email the Varsity coach and ask if we misunderstood the rules for excused academic absents. The Varsity coach said that my son did right and should have played. After they lost the fund raiser game the losers had to run poles. Which ment my son ran poles in a game that he was wrongfully not allow to play and help win. As far as all the advice about working so hard that the Coach can't keep you out of the lineup. In case you missed it thats why my son hits, you can't deny that he can hit. The coach most likely hates everytime he has to put him in. He holds him back just to see if someone will rise up so he doesn't have to play him at all. Same with the other kid i mention. The coach wants certain players to earn those spots so the others can't. I will let it go now. I'm done. You can think it is fake or whatever. I will not respond anymore. Thanks for the good advice.

Thank you.  With respect, you are clearly still missing the point.  Still, I wish you and your son the best.

I was wrong... I'm not done.  I have two seniors in my program that I want to mention to you.  I have been working with these two off and on (bouncing from JV to V) for three or four years.  These two both had questionable mental thought processes (even by teen standards) and we have battled through them for a long time.  I have reached the point of beyond frustrated with both of them on MANY occasions.  In many ways, they were the guys that you would argue coaches didn't want to like.  I certainly didn't like the decisions they made and the way they carried themselves.  We talked a lot.  They sat a lot.  They were sent to or kept at JV often.  They definitely matched your description of being the players on the wrong end of the stick when it came to the coaches wanting other players to earn those spots.  It took a tremendous effort on the part of both of these young men to work through their attitude/behavior/mental weakness issues to push through and earn favor in the eyes of the coaches.  They recognized the points that needed to be addressed and they pushed through (although always an ongoing process).  These two are the only two that i sent congratulations notes to this morning after stellar performances in starting roles for varsity last night.

You mentioned in a previous post that there is nothing a kid can do if a coach doesn't like him.  Bullsh$it.  

It certainly was not an overnight process, though.

A "slap in the face" to be a starter on Varsity?  And a player headed to D3.  Helping the team is what is important.  If a kid thinks it is a slap in the face to be a starting OF instead of SS, then he is for a huge eye opener when he steps on campus.

He might end up grateful for the OF experience when he gets to college.  Being versatile might be the only way he makes it out of fall cuts at the college level....

cabbagedad posted:

BBDAD98 posted:

****

 

****

You mentioned in a previous post that there is nothing a kid can do if a coach doesn't like him.  Bullsh$it.  

Cabbagedad:  I think this post was great.  And I absolutely agree that sometimes kids (maybe boys especially) need "tough love" to help them understand that their attitudes and approaches have to change.

But I think we can concede that some coaches are just jerks.  Some will hold grudges, play favorites, be unreasonable.  Unfortunately, the same will be true of some HS baseball players' future bosses, colleagues, maybe even some "significant others."  Part of why we want our kids to participate in sports is so they can learn some key life lessons--such as dealing with jerks--before the stakes get higher, like in careers, etc. 

I say this only to acknowledge that maybe some of the posters here really do have sons who are in bad situations and are being treated unjustly.  It does happen.  But you won't talk a jerk out of being a jerk, nor will you persuade him with statistics or other coaches' evaluations of your kid's abilities.  Even if the facts are exactly as bad as you think (and let's face it, none of us is objective about our own children, no matter how hard we try), the advice given throughout this thread still applies. 

I don’t understand why this thread keeps going.  This is self aggrandizement at best and fake at worst. It’s not worthy of this site. Why are seasoned members continuing to indulge in this thread?

RJM posted:

Whenever I see comments like, “He had the best tryout I’ve ever seen” I become real skeptical about the parent’s objectivity and ability to judge the overall situation.

To be fair...I believe he said "He had the best tryout I've ever seen HIM have."

Midwest Mom posted:

I don’t understand why this thread keeps going.  This is self aggrandizement at best and fake at worst. It’s not worthy of this site. Why are seasoned members continuing to indulge in this thread?

I mean no disrespect at all when I say this, but if you aren't interested in the topic, then don't read the posts.  If you are getting email notifications and those bother you, then you can turn them off for this thread.  At any given time there are lots of conversations on this board I'm not interested in--and that's fine with me.  

The road to failure is paved with excuses. The road to success is void of such nonsense.

Chico Escuela posted:

Midwest Mom posted:

I don’t understand why this thread keeps going.  This is self aggrandizement at best and fake at worst. It’s not worthy of this site. Why are seasoned members continuing to indulge in this thread?

I mean no disrespect at all when I say this, but if you aren't interested in the topic, then don't read the posts.  If you are getting email notifications and those bother you, then you can turn them off for this thread.  At any given time there are lots of conversations on this board I'm not interested in--and that's fine with me.  

Fair enough Chico. Usually when people question posts as people have here, they don’t give respect to the poster by continuing the discussion. That said you’re right and I’m out of this one. 

This has brought up a statement that I think is wrong.  Many on here have said that all coaches play their best nine.  My sons have been blessed with good coaches who held to this BUT.  I know coaches who have not played their best.

They have played:  the booster club's presidents kid or the biggest giver, the hottest mom's son, their best friend's son, their son, and on and on.  Some do not give younger guys a chance even if they are better.  My sons have played for some guys in other sports who believed that junior and seniors have earned their right to start and should start over younger guys even if they are better.  All coaches are not in it to win.  There are some coaches, especially JV and under that are not kept on for their win/loss record but because they knew the right person or were the right person or the school had no one else apply. 

So for posters to consistently say that all coaches play the best is false.  I know lots of guys who do not play the best.  I think we have to be honest in this and say there are some bad coaches out there.  The guy I followed in Missouri was a great guy but a terrible coach.  He knew nothing about baseball.  Had never even played slow pitch softball but he was the only one who wanted the job.  So we have to admit some coaches are just bad.

I don't see it necessarily as the "best 9" (which as you say is a big "lie" in many cases).  Reality is it should be the best 11, maybe 12.  You have 8 regular fielders.  Then an extra outfielder and utility infielder.  You're up to 10.  Add a few bats, pitcher only's etc. and you have a regular group you can rotate thru during the season.  One thing I see is guys who pitch and play the field need some opportunities to rest.  Doing both is a lot of wear and tear for a long season.  You need them fresh come play off time.  

PitchingFan posted:

This has brought up a statement that I think is wrong.  Many on here have said that all coaches play their best nine.  My sons have been blessed with good coaches who held to this BUT.  I know coaches who have not played their best.

They have played:  the booster club's presidents kid or the biggest giver, the hottest mom's son, their best friend's son, their son, and on and on.  Some do not give younger guys a chance even if they are better.  My sons have played for some guys in other sports who believed that junior and seniors have earned their right to start and should start over younger guys even if they are better.  All coaches are not in it to win.  There are some coaches, especially JV and under that are not kept on for their win/loss record but because they knew the right person or were the right person or the school had no one else apply. 

So for posters to consistently say that all coaches play the best is false.  I know lots of guys who do not play the best.  I think we have to be honest in this and say there are some bad coaches out there.  The guy I followed in Missouri was a great guy but a terrible coach.  He knew nothing about baseball.  Had never even played slow pitch softball but he was the only one who wanted the job.  So we have to admit some coaches are just bad.

Of course there will be some bad actors in any group of people, so yes, you can't say "all coaches" do any one thing.  But from what I have seen I do think the vast majority of coaches on all high school VARSITY teams play they players THEY THINK will help them win. I have definitely seen the sons of hot moms, snack bar supervisors, and booster club presidents get benched or cut.

THEY THINK is capped because it's subjective and in some cases they may be wrong.

VARSITY is capped because from my (thankfully) limited exposure to Freshman and  JV teams, the focus of these teams is development, not just winning, so they don't belong in a discussion of whether or not coaches always put the best players on the field.

JCG posted:

PitchingFan posted:

This has brought up a statement that I think is wrong.  Many on here have said that all coaches play their best nine.  My sons have been blessed with good coaches who held to this BUT.  I know coaches who have not played their best.

They have played:  the booster club's presidents kid or the biggest giver, the hottest mom's son, their best friend's son, their son, and on and on.  Some do not give younger guys a chance even if they are better.  My sons have played for some guys in other sports who believed that junior and seniors have earned their right to start and should start over younger guys even if they are better.  All coaches are not in it to win.  There are some coaches, especially JV and under that are not kept on for their win/loss record but because they knew the right person or were the right person or the school had no one else apply. 

So for posters to consistently say that all coaches play the best is false.  I know lots of guys who do not play the best.  I think we have to be honest in this and say there are some bad coaches out there.  The guy I followed in Missouri was a great guy but a terrible coach.  He knew nothing about baseball.  Had never even played slow pitch softball but he was the only one who wanted the job.  So we have to admit some coaches are just bad.

Of course there will be some bad actors in any group of people, so yes, you can't say "all coaches" do any one thing.  But from what I have seen I do think the vast majority of coaches on all high school VARSITY teams play they players THEY THINK will help them win. I have definitely seen the sons of hot moms, snack bar supervisors, and booster club presidents get benched or cut.

THEY THINK is capped because it's subjective and in some cases they may be wrong.

VARSITY is capped because from my (thankfully) limited exposure to Freshman and  JV teams, the focus of these teams is development, not just winning, so they don't belong in a discussion of whether or not coaches always put the best players on the field.

THEY THINK is a huge modifier.   Some guys out think themselves. 

I do not think it is as high as JCG makes it out to be.  I think the more competitive teams do but again that is minority.  There are lots of coaches out there that have their own agendas rather than the best players in mind.  They care more about keeping certain people or the right people happy rather than winning.  They are concerned about keeping their job through politics rather than winning because we also know that not everyone is worried about the team winning if Little Johnny and his friends don't get to play.  I have seen way too many high schools who do not care about winning, especially in this new world mindset of everyone getting a trophy. 

Maybe I'm delusional, but I thought participation trophies, where they exist, end when players are in the first or second grade.  Maybe it happens, but I have never seen a HS program give them out.  I've also never seen a HS team not care about winning, or not think that losing really really sucks. I have seen HS teams that have gotten used to losing, but that is a different discussion.

PitchingFan posted:

This has brought up a statement that I think is wrong.  Many on here have said that all coaches play their best nine.  My sons have been blessed with good coaches who held to this BUT.  I know coaches who have not played their best.

They have played:  the booster club's presidents kid or the biggest giver, the hottest mom's son, their best friend's son, their son, and on and on.  Some do not give younger guys a chance even if they are better.  My sons have played for some guys in other sports who believed that junior and seniors have earned their right to start and should start over younger guys even if they are better.  All coaches are not in it to win.  There are some coaches, especially JV and under that are not kept on for their win/loss record but because they knew the right person or were the right person or the school had no one else apply. 

So for posters to consistently say that all coaches play the best is false.  I know lots of guys who do not play the best.  I think we have to be honest in this and say there are some bad coaches out there.  The guy I followed in Missouri was a great guy but a terrible coach.  He knew nothing about baseball.  Had never even played slow pitch softball but he was the only one who wanted the job.  So we have to admit some coaches are just bad.

As I originally posted I’ll bet between everyone on this board we can come up with 100 cases of coaches not playing the best players. But in the big picture most coaches do play the best players. More often than not when I’ve heard the accusation it was a very inaccurate observation from an excuse making parent. Then before you know it the excuse is traveling the league as fact with the other excuse making parents.

We had a couple of parents on our high school team who would whine to anyone who would listen. It got to the point where parents would scramble when they saw them coming. So these parents would make their way to the other side and complain to the opposing team parents. It’s the best way to make news travel fast.

There are also legitimate reasons kids don’t play that are outside talent. We had a kid who was always busting up equipment. The display pissed off the coach. The parent asked why the coach cared if the kid was breaking his own equipment. What goes on in school from a citizenship and academic standpoint can affect playing time.

Start with parents believe their kids are better than they are. Parents also tend to have a higher opinion of their kid’s travel teammates since they see them play more often. Parents often don’t have the baseball acumen to see something in a player the high school coach sees. The high school coach may be thinking long term and not about today.

If you get into smaller high schools where they must hire from the school there may not be anyone qualified to coach. Don’t blame the coach willing to take the job. Thank him. Otherwise there might not be a team. Blame yourself for choosing to live in that school zone if it matters that much to you.

Two types of coaches.  One who knows what they are doing (several on here) and one who doesn't know what they are doing.  Those that know can take a team of average talent and make them competitive.  Those that don't know might get luck as some veins of talent work thru the school but eventually are exposed.  

I watched type one last night.  Last year had a down year with a very young team and injuries.  Today, with a year under their belts, they are making a move.  But just watch them.  Everyone knows what they are doing and where they should be on EVERY SINGLE PLAY.  It's a pleasure to watch regardless of the score.  

coach2709 posted:

Chico Escuela posted:

Midwest Mom posted:

I don’t understand why this thread keeps going.  This is self aggrandizement at best and fake at worst. It’s not worthy of this site. Why are seasoned members continuing to indulge in this thread?

I mean no disrespect at all when I say this, but if you aren't interested in the topic, then don't read the posts.  If you are getting email notifications and those bother you, then you can turn them off for this thread.  At any given time there are lots of conversations on this board I'm not interested in--and that's fine with me.  

Agreed...

So, we've had the good/bad HS coach discussion many times here at HSBBW.  My questions are these...

1 -After reading all the posts from the OP, do we really think, in this instance, the bigger problem is the coach?

2 -In this instance, are we helping the OP and his kid any by reinforcing his belief that the issues lie with the coach?

cabbagedad posted:

So, we've had the good/bad HS coach discussion many times here at HSBBW.  My questions are these...

1 -After reading all the posts from the OP, do we really think, in this instance, the bigger problem is the coach?

2 -In this instance, are we helping the OP and his kid any by reinforcing his belief that the issues lie with the coach?

 

It doesn’t matter if the player or the coach is the problem. The coach makes the lineup. The player has to adjust his attitude to be in the lineup. 

I look at this like crossing the street. I don’t step in front of cars because they’re supposed to stop. I don’t see the value of my dying words being, “I was right. He was wrong.”

1. not the coach

2. I hope that's not what we're doing. I think we can acknowlege that coaches have different agendas without supporting OP's point of view.

I wonder if the OP ever played much himself.  Whoever posted that video of the pawn shop dude, thanks.  The dad was clueless as a dad and it looked like he never learned how to throw properly himself.  Poor kid.

RJM posted:

cabbagedad posted:

So, we've had the good/bad HS coach discussion many times here at HSBBW.  My questions are these...

1 -After reading all the posts from the OP, do we really think, in this instance, the bigger problem is the coach?

2 -In this instance, are we helping the OP and his kid any by reinforcing his belief that the issues lie with the coach?

 

It does matter if the player or the coach is the problem. The coach makes the lineup. The player has to adjust his attitude to be in the lineup. 

I look at this like crossing the street. I don’t step in front of cars because they’re supposed to stop. I don’t see the value of my dying words being, “I was right. He was wrong.”

I'm thinking that you meant, "It doesn't" matter.  You are correct!  It doesn't matter if the coach likes your kid or not.  He makes the line-up, and he is in control.  I've had this conversation with Ryno before.  It doesn't matter how the coach is, you have to figure out what that coach wants you to do.  You have to make him like you, respect your ability, or something to get his attention and get you in the line-up.  It's on you, not on him.  Same way with a teacher.  What do I need to do to get the grade that I want?  Same thing with a boss.

A person will most likely not mesh with every coach, teacher, or boss.  It is up to them to figure it out, or find a new team, class, or job.

Cabbage -

Regards to #1 - We have only heard one side of the story (the OP) and not the coach.  There must be some truth to what he posted, but I'm not totally convinced the coach is "the problem".  How many times has a disgruntled parent posted similar concerns on this board?  And parents (myself included) tend to have a bias (the rose colored glasses thing).

#2 - The OP has two options.  A) try to get the coach replaced, but that will be a time consuming process and won't necessarily result in more playing time for the player involved.  B) Find another school to transfer to, but depending on the state league rules, that has its own pitfalls.  In my state (VHSL), in most cases it involves said student sitting for a year before being allowed to participate in any sport.

FoxDad posted:

Cabbage -

Regards to #1 - We have only heard one side of the story (the OP) and not the coach.  There must be some truth to what he posted, but I'm not totally convinced the coach is "the problem".  How many times has a disgruntled parent posted similar concerns on this board?  And parents (myself included) tend to have a bias (the rose colored glasses thing).

#2 - The OP has two options.  A) try to get the coach replaced, but that will be a time consuming process and won't necessarily result in more playing time for the player involved.  B) Find another school to transfer to, but depending on the state league rules, that has its own pitfalls.  In my state (VHSL), in most cases it involves said student sitting for a year before being allowed to participate in any sport.

 

C) Recognize that his focus on what everyone else is doing wrong (in his eyes) has been passed down to his son and there's a learning opportunity for both here. 

Matt13 posted:

FoxDad posted:

Cabbage -

Regards to #1 - We have only heard one side of the story (the OP) and not the coach.  There must be some truth to what he posted, but I'm not totally convinced the coach is "the problem".  How many times has a disgruntled parent posted similar concerns on this board?  And parents (myself included) tend to have a bias (the rose colored glasses thing).

#2 - The OP has two options.  A) try to get the coach replaced, but that will be a time consuming process and won't necessarily result in more playing time for the player involved.  B) Find another school to transfer to, but depending on the state league rules, that has its own pitfalls.  In my state (VHSL), in most cases it involves said student sitting for a year before being allowed to participate in any sport.

 

C) Recognize that his focus on what everyone else is doing wrong (in his eyes) has been passed down to his son and there's a learning opportunity for both here. 

Yeah, that about sums it up... I think a few missed that my questions were rhetorical.

It's not the coaches job to get you to like him. It's the players job to get the coach to like him. How does a player do that? Well he can be the first guy there and the last one to leave. He can do more than everyone else. He can be coachable. He can work to be so good the coach has to put him in the line up. He can look for ways to stand out above everyone else. He can ignore those who would convince him the reason he is not playing is the coach. He can ignore the negative influences in his life. He can do all these things and more. And he can do all these things and more and maybe the coach still won't like him. So for that player what does he gain?

He knows he has done everything he could do. He knows he has been the best he could be. He takes that same attitude, work ethic and game plan to his next stop in baseball and life. He won't have this same coach, boss forever. Or he falls into the trap of finding excuses for his failure. He never develops the mentality that he owns his fate. No it's the coach. No it's the teacher. No it's the cop. No it's your fault. No there's no need to do anything special. No there's no need to do anything, it's out of my hands.

I mean what's the game plan when you relegate yourself to the Coach just doesn't like me option? When you don't play for the next coach what's the reason? The coach just doesn't like me again? Well that's all you know. Their all the same. How do you flip the switch when all you know is "The coach doesn't like me." So the coach is great guy and knows his stuff when your playing but the coach is a clown if I don't? It's the coach silly don't you get it?

Parents who spout this even when it might be true have no idea what they are doing. So these are the tools your going to give them to work with? Instead of saying "What difference does it make? You are who you are regardless of who he is. Make him like you. Don't let him stop you from being all you can be. Be so good he has no choice and if he still doesn't make him look stupid for not playing you. Never let anyone stop you from being the best you can be. Playing time or lack thereof should never change how you go about your business."

I often wonder about these comments about HS coaches. These blanket statements or these "percentages" of HS coaches people use. Just how many HS coaches has your son played for? How many HS coaches do you actually know? How many HS baseball coaching experiences have you actually had? Or are you just basing your opinion on the ONE HS coach your son has had and the numerous conversations you have had with other disgruntled parents of other HS coaches? You know birds of a feather flock together. We all know the reasons our son's don't play. It has nothing to do with his enormous undeniable ability. No the Coach just doesn't like him. We all know the best players routinely sit the pine.

Does this coach ever make unhelpful posts?

HS coaches are human. Like other humans, some are deeply flawed, even disturbed, individuals. Yes, a player has to deal with this—life is like that and it pays to learn this lesson early. But to defend all coaches unconditionally (which some comments here come awfully close to doing) just isn’t realistic IMO. 

I also believe that at some point (which is going to vary with circumstances, by kid, and by kids’ age) a parent ought to tell a child that “No matter what you do, you may not change this coach’s / teacher’s / boss’s mind.”  The next part of that conversation needs to be about dealing with this fact in the right ways. But for my part, I think there are times when it’s not fair to a kid to just say “work harder, it’s all on you.”  

Chico Escuela posted:

HS coaches are human. Like other humans, some are deeply flawed, even disturbed, individuals. Yes, a player has to deal with this—life is like that and it pays to learn this lesson early. But to defend all coaches unconditionally (which some comments here come awfully close to doing) just isn’t realistic IMO. 

I also believe that at some point (which is going to vary with circumstances, by kid, and by kids’ age) a parent ought to tell a child that “No matter what you do, you may not change this coach’s / teacher’s / boss’s mind.”  The next part of that conversation needs to be about dealing with this fact in the right ways. But for my part, I think there are times when it’s not fair to a kid to just say “work harder, it’s all on you.”  

I think Coach May's post above sums it up quite nicely by using it as a teaching point for your kid's future.  When you say it's not fair to just say, "work harder, it's all on you", what exactly would you say.  There's a fine line between support and support through negativity.  For instance, if I say, "Ryan your coach is a fool, and he should be pitching you more", I am supporting him, but I am supporting him in a negative manner.  This will not be productive.

I've chosen to handle it differently.  "Ryan, I believe your coach should be pitching you more, but honestly, you haven't been getting the job done.  Your control isn't where it needs to be, and you need to make improvements in order for the coach to trust in your abilities."

I don't think anyone here thinks all coaches are right; but as others have stated, it's his kingdom, and you have to please him, not the other way around.

Ryno, I don't think we disagree...

Can you imagine having a conversation with your son in which you acknowledge there really seems to be nothing else he can do, and then talk with him about the fact life isn't fair and that while his coach may be wrong, he's still the coach?  Yeah, almost all conversations are going to boil down to "you have to work harder and try to change your coach's mind."  But I think there are times when you have to say "No matter how hard you work, you may not change this coach's mind.  That's not fair.  But you have to do the best you can and think about what you *can* accomplish, not what you can't." 

I do think some folks here come awfully close to saying HS coaches all are good, honest folks trying to do what's right.  Most HS coaches surely are; I hope *almost* all of them are.  And I get that folks feel the need to defend coaches against parents' natural inclinations to defend their kids and attack their kids' coaches.  I'm just concerned that we not reflexively make kids think the problem is always that they aren't doing enough--that's no healthier than teaching them it's never their fault.

I don't think anyone would come on here and say "All HS coaches are good guys." We all know that's simply not he case even though we all surely wish it was. The same coach who in one person's eyes is the end all to be all is a total failure in another person's eyes. If your son is playing and doing well the coach is all good. If your son is not playing the coach is a clown. Does that happen? Of course it does.

I think it's the right thing to do to be totally honest with your HS player. If your son is not playing do you know why? Does he know why? Are you both honest with each other? If your son is not playing and you can be totally objective and you have all the information needed and your son is being totally honest and he should be playing but is not how do you handle that?

Me personally "Suck it up. Keep working. Yeah he might be wrong but don't make him right. Keep pushing and keep grinding. Prepare for your opportunity don't wait for it. These situations only prepare you for success down the road. Man up and keeping fighting."

I have never seen a negative person who blames others for his failures change his lot. A negative seed yields a negative crop. On the other hand I have seen what a positive person who takes total ownership in his lot can do. It is a very powerful force that simply will not be denied in the end. A positive seed will always yield a positive crop. You just don't get to choose when the harvest is. Just know that you will have your day and you will be a better person for it.

Don't get caught looking at the moment as the final result of the journey. Sometimes the rocky road with the pot holes turns out to be the road that led to the ultimate success.

Chico Escuela posted:

Ryno, I don't think we disagree...

Can you imagine having a conversation with your son in which you acknowledge there really seems to be nothing else he can do, and then talk with him about the fact life isn't fair and that while his coach may be wrong, he's still the coach?  Yeah, almost all conversations are going to boil down to "you have to work harder and try to change your coach's mind."  But I think there are times when you have to say "No matter how hard you work, you may not change this coach's mind.  That's not fair.  But you have to do the best you can and think about what you *can* accomplish, not what you can't." 

I do think some folks here come awfully close to saying HS coaches all are good, honest folks trying to do what's right.  Most HS coaches surely are; I hope *almost* all of them are.  And I get that folks feel the need to defend coaches against parents' natural inclinations to defend their kids and attack their kids' coaches.  I'm just concerned that we not reflexively make kids think the problem is always that they aren't doing enough--that's no healthier than teaching them it's never their fault.

I agree, there's a good lesson in this message too.  Anytime one's fate is up to another individual, sometimes doing all you can do isn't enough to get what you're looking for.  Learning how to grow through these situations is huge.

Parents want to win at all costs as long as their kid is playing.  Has any parent ever gone up to a coach and suggest he take his son out of the lineup so they can make a run for the title?  I had a parent talk to me about his son's mental illness for almost an hour.  It didn't help nor hurt his playing time, but it did make me think twice about cutting him (I'm afraid he might end up cutting me, literally). 

A parent who convinces their son it’s the coach’s fault is just training him for following a family legacy. I’ll bet you can find that parent at the water cooler blaming his boss for the promotion he didn’t get. He can be proud knowing someday his son too, will be a complainer at the water cooler. 

Coach_May posted:

 The same coach who in one person's eyes is the end all to be all is a total failure in another person's eyes. If your son is playing and doing well the coach is all good. If your son is not playing the coach is a clown. Does that happen? Of course it does.

Hit nail on head!  I have seen this play out so many times over the years.  

2022NYC posted:

Does this coach ever make unhelpful posts?

No. I printed of dozens of coach Mays post and put them in a binder and gave to my son before his HS tryout freshman year. 

RJM posted:

A parent who convinces their son it’s the coach’s fault is just training him for following a family legacy. I’ll bet you can find that parent at the water cooler blaming his boss for the promotion he didn’t get. He can be proud knowing someday his son too, will be a complainer at the water cooler. 

Whether it started with fakery or not (I'm agnostic on that), this has been an interesting, and helpful, thread for me.  It's always good to be reminded of some things, especially at the start of a new HS season.  I'm new(ish) here, but really have come to appreciate this site--and a level of civility here that is mighty rare on the Internet.

One last try on this topic:  I think I agree 99+% with RJM and other posters, but with a reservation. You may say I'm splitting hairs or obsessing (and believe me, you wouldn't be the first to tell me so ).

Sometimes I think a kid needs a parent to acknowledge that the kid is being treated unfairly, and not just told to work harder. Not often--maybe rarely--but sometimes.  One example that comes to mind is dealing with prejudice. My daughter had a teacher who had a reputation for favoring boys over girls. I say this as someone who also had a son go through this teacher's class and who has heard the same verdict from other parents who had kids of both genders in this class in other years. My daughter makes honey badgers look timid by comparison and she worked like heck to earn the grade she ultimately made in that class. I never suggested she had any excuse to do otherwise, never complained to the teacher or the administration. But I did acknowledge to my kid that her teacher seemed to have a problem and that I thought my daughter was right to feel she was being treated unjustly. (I won't go into details, but I'm a teacher and I don't make this accusation lightly.)

Granted, a coach's decision to bench a baseball player is different in a lot of ways, and all of us ought to be miiiiighty careful before we assume anything about a coach other than the best intentions and honest motives.  I guess the tl;dr version is: Sometimes I think the message ought to be "yes, that is unfair and it's ok to think so; but you still have to do and act your best," not just "your coach/teacher/boss gets to make the rules, so suck it up and try harder." 

Chico Escuela posted:

RJM posted:

A parent who convinces their son it’s the coach’s fault is just training him for following a family legacy. I’ll bet you can find that parent at the water cooler blaming his boss for the promotion he didn’t get. He can be proud knowing someday his son too, will be a complainer at the water cooler. 

Whether it started with fakery or not (I'm agnostic on that), this has been an interesting, and helpful, thread for me.  It's always good to be reminded of some things, especially at the start of a new HS season.  I'm new(ish) here, but really have come to appreciate this site--and a level of civility here that is mighty rare on the Internet.

One last try on this topic:  I think I agree 99+% with RJM and other posters, but with a reservation. You may say I'm splitting hairs or obsessing (and believe me, you wouldn't be the first to tell me so ).

Sometimes I think a kid needs a parent to acknowledge that the kid is being treated unfairly, and not just told to work harder. Not often--maybe rarely--but sometimes.  One example that comes to mind is dealing with prejudice. My daughter had a teacher who had a reputation for favoring boys over girls. I say this as someone who also had a son go through this teacher's class and who has heard the same verdict from other parents who had kids of both genders in this class in other years. My daughter makes honey badgers look timid by comparison and she worked like heck to earn the grade she ultimately made in that class. I never suggested she had any excuse to do otherwise, never complained to the teacher or the administration. But I did acknowledge to my kid that her teacher seemed to have a problem and that I thought my daughter was right to feel she was being treated unjustly. (I won't go into details, but I'm a teacher and I don't make this accusation lightly.)

Granted, a coach's decision to bench a baseball player is different in a lot of ways, and all of us ought to be miiiiighty careful before we assume anything about a coach other than the best intentions and honest motives.  I guess the tl;dr version is: Sometimes I think the message ought to be "yes, that is unfair and it's ok to think so; but you still have to do and act your best," not just "your coach/teacher/boss gets to make the rules, so suck it up and try harder." 

I’ve forgotten how many times I’ve been screwed or my kids (29 and 25) have been screwed. Sometimes these threads bring back the memory. But I had forgotten for a reason. In the moment I decided, or convinced my kids “This is not going to get in the way. There is a go around I need to find.” After the fact  I’ve forgotten about these situations because I don’t dwell on the negative. I celebrate where I am now. 

Back when I was at a President’s Club the hired keynote speaker said, “It doesn’t matter where you’ve been if you’re happy where you are.” When I do look back I don’t dwell on who held me back. I congratulate myself for fighting through to the other side.

I’ve taught my kids to do the same. If anyone thinks competitive sports can be rough, jump into the politics in the corporate world. There’s always a solution in the long term. But you don’t get there focusing on the negatives. 

Leaders don’t come from the whiners circle at the water cooler. Leaders come from those who walk away from those at the water cooler, sit in their office and come up with solutions to the problems. In a simpler world, sports, the same philosophy applies. 

Very good post. But then I think about all the times I didn't get what I probably deserved. My kids didn't get what they probably deserved. I think about all the good things I have been given. All the good opportunities I was afforded. And I'm simply too busy counting my blessings to have time to think about negative stuff. 

I also have lived long enough to have seen what I believed was a curse turn out to be a blessing. And what I believed was a great break turn into a freaking nightmare. I don't believe we can judge an outcome before the final results are in. 

You can't pick a Rose without navigating the thorns. I say embrace the thorns of life. Sometimes they end up being the Rose.

If everything was perfect for someone then do they ever truly value when they are successful?  Winning is not easy.  Getting that promotion is not easy.  Getting that job is not easy.  So when you have those things you need to appreciate the hard work, mental toughness and value that you get from success.  

I was a head coach for 9 years in Kentucky.  Decided to step way from being a head coach and make a major move in my life to relocate to NC where I did NOT know a single soul.  The plan was to be away from being a head coach for 1 or 2 years.  Ended up being 9 years for various reasons with one being a challenge created by other people.  Now that I am back in the big seat I am having the time of my life.  It has been so much fun and I think that has infected my guys because we are having fun out there.  I can appreciate being a head coach so much more now than i did before.  

I'm happy for you Coach. Having read your posts for several years there is no doubt in my mind you are the kind of guy we need doing this. Like you I stepped away for a few years. My last year coaching was 2008 in HS. I can honestly say I am enjoying it this time around more than I ever have. I am having more fun and enjoying every moment with the guys. As you know there is so much more to this thing than what people tend to worry about. The relationships that are built. The mentoring and the experiences that have nothing to do with actually playing the games. I wish you all the best and I know your players are lucky to have a coach like you.

Thanks coach and all the best to you as well.  Talk about timing our two schools played last year in the 2nd round of the playoffs yet neither of us were there to coach.  Hopefully, we can cross paths sometime soon and meet in person.  I guess we are proving the old saying youth is wasted on the young LOL

Update: Take it how you guys want. My son finished HS JV with over .400 avg highest on the team, 50 AB and DH in the 8 and 2 hole and was awarded MVP for all of his offensive efforts. He played 6 total innings of defense in 16 games. His end of the year meeting was positive with one constructive criticism. He was told that he did not play Varsity and that he will not make it to the next level because of his throwing motion. 6 boys from JV and 1 boy from our freshman team were called up to Varsity to play the last 4 games of the season and to play in the playoffs, we made it to round 2. My son and I watch from the bleachers, he was not called up. He made a .500 team for summer ball with a good organization and college coach. He was lead off and starting CF, he made 3 amazing throws home to stop a runner or gun them out. My son was 14 and played up on a 15U team and the team played up in 16U wood bat PG tournaments. He was looked up to as a leader by the players and coach, which surprised him, he humbly told them I'm only 14 and a JV player.  My son had a great wood bat season batting just under .400 avg. He lead the team in avg, and hits and was in the top three for OBP, steals, and others according to PG Diamond Kast. He made 4 All Tournament teams at PG. He had right at 90 AB. He also pitched and was throwing 78-82 mph which was a personal record for him. He had a blast this summer with his travel coach and team and I hope he can continue that with his HS career. He is currently taking the fall off to workout and work on that throwing motion that is killing his HS career.

HS Tryout update. My son made good improvements in the off season. He is faster and stronger and increased his exit velo and throwing velo. He was put on the JV team again. I am sure he will have another great season, he has put in the extra work as always. Found out yesterday that the coach does not want the players swinging wood bats at all because they are not in the majors and he also said that their summer PG stats don't matter. SMH

BBDAD98 posted:

 Found out yesterday that the coach does not want the players swinging wood bats at all because they are not in the majors and he also said that their summer PG stats don't matter. SMH

Don't want to rehash the whole V/JV debate, but I don't think any HS coach cares about Summer PG stats.  I happen to agree with the coach on the wood bat things.  Very few HS players really know how to swing a wood bat.  Composite bats are way more forgiving of swing glitches.  

The coach didn't say they don't matter to him, he said that they did not matter. He might have meant to say not to him. I can give him the benefit of doubt. Question if you had 9 of your HS players in PG wood bat tournaments over the summer across 3 teams and they played the same age and same weeks and you told them you would follow them. Would it matter then? Would it matter that you had players doing very well, some average and some doing poorly? Would it matter that you get to see how your hitters and pitchers do against better competition if you plan to go deep into the HS playoffs and you know already that you have the weakest schedule? You already know the HS region comp stinks until you reach playoffs. If none of that matters then fine it is whoever's opinion. The wood bat helps the BBCOR bat swing. The wood bat is less forgiving therefore if you can hit with wood you will hit with the BBCOR and since the BBCOR is more forgiving you should get even more hits. My son adjusted very well moving to all wood bat tournaments because it was something he practiced since he was 12. But again you can disagree. I am just trying to prepare my son for the next level. Side note my son did fix his weird throwing motion in the off season. He use to throw on a line and on target but he was putting extra stress on his shoulder. Now he throws faster 85 from 72 but with a decrease in accuracy. Which should improve with practice. 

BBDAD98 posted:

The coach didn't say they don't matter to him, he said that they did not matter. He might have meant to say not to him. I can give him the benefit of doubt. Question if you had 9 of your HS players in PG wood bat tournaments over the summer across 3 teams and they played the same age and same weeks and you told them you would follow them. Would it matter then? Would it matter that you had players doing very well, some average and some doing poorly? Would it matter that you get to see how your hitters and pitchers do against better competition if you plan to go deep into the HS playoffs and you know already that you have the weakest schedule? You already know the HS region comp stinks until you reach playoffs. If none of that matters then fine it is whoever's opinion. The wood bat helps the BBCOR bat swing. The wood bat is less forgiving therefore if you can hit with wood you will hit with the BBCOR and since the BBCOR is more forgiving you should get even more hits. My son adjusted very well moving to all wood bat tournaments because it was something he practiced since he was 12. But again you can disagree. I am just trying to prepare my son for the next level. Side note my son did fix his weird throwing motion in the off season. He use to throw on a line and on target but he was putting extra stress on his shoulder. Now he throws faster 85 from 72 but with a decrease in accuracy. Which should improve with practice. 

Again, I am not getting into your specific situation.  I'm talking more in generalities.  

If you're talking about baseball stats.  Batting Average, ERA, etc, he is correct they don't matter.  What matters to the colleges are measurable.  Things like Batted Ball Exit Velo,  Position throwing velocity, 40 yard speed, and then the eye test (do they play like the coach would like them to play).  

I want to agree with you in general. If you have 9 players as an example and you know their measurables from HS and PG you can see how they use what they have. Hitting an 88 mph fastball for a line drive base hit is different from hitting 88 mph off a tee. An 88 mph ground ball to 3rd off of a pitcher helps no one. Throwing 88 on the mound and can't find the strikezone is bad in PG and HS. I feel overall the statement was better left unsaid. The players who did well were told it did not matter and the players that were struggling at PG were told its ok stats don't matter. How about motivating both.

I would love to know how the PG Stats even came up unless someone was trying to tell a coach what they were.  I would agree if you were telling me your son's PG stats I would say I don't care what they were.  I care about what he does for me right now.  I know kids that have good summer stats but can't hit the slower pitching of HS so they don't get to play much.  I also know kids who have great summer stats playing lower level ball but can't hit fast pitching so they struggle.  Summer stats only matter in the summer and spring stats only matter in the spring and then all stats matter if they are equal and are validated by your ability to play the game.  I also don't care what your summer coach says.   Or if I'm your summer coach I normally don't care what your HS coach says.  When you are with me, it is my way.  I hope no dad or player would try to tell their HS coach about their summer stats but I'm sure it happens.

On wood bat, I think if you can hit with wood bat then it makes you a better hitter but if you struggle with it in practice then put it up.  I would only let a kid hit in HS games with a wood bat if he was dropping bombs regularly or batting over .500.  I would never let a player hit in a game with a wood bat unless he is the stud and there are few of those.   Why would you want to?  Is that what he is talking about or hitting in cage?  Cage, I'm ok with but in games, no way.

Congratulations to your son on fixing his weird throwing motion.  All those posts from you last year (earlier in this thread) bashing this coach ...  sounds like the coach was right last year after all, playing him mostly at DH... might have saved his career.   In hindsight, sounds like his actions were pretty good motivation for your son to fix it.  Have you or your son thanked him for that?

(I'm taking the over on three more pages)

A couple things?  1) How did the coach know to say "PG summer stats don't matter"?  Please don't tell me that your son told him.   2) You're not seriously advocating that your son would use wood in a HS season over BBCOR?    My son hit very, very good with wood....probably as good as he did with metal as far as average and power over 3 seasons of top level summer ball....but he would NEVER have considered using it in a game situation.  Sure, balls that are hit well are pretty close to equal, but balls that are mishit with BBCOR can still in some cases end up getting thru....balls that are mishit with wood are ground outs.   I guess I can understand your frustration with the HS coach, but your arguments so far (PG stats, etc, etc) aren't proving why he is wrong...just proving that you are way too into stats.   If your son is looking to play in college....I would start now....and wipe every stat you know about him out of your head.  College coach's don't care....AT ALL.    You could hit .750 in HS....but if you hit nothing but hard ground balls that get thru the hole between 1st and 2nd you're not getting a sniff from a college coach.   Again, your HS coach may be wrong....but trying to use meaningless stats to prove your point is only digging a deeper hole for your son to dig out of if he wants to play varsity

I too find it odd that PG Stats came up in a conversation.  Did you, as a dad, go up to make sure that this ignorant coach knew how good your son was?  Did your son go up and say to the coach that he had a great summer and the number prove that he is better than the rest of the guys?  Personally, I love for my hitters to hit with wood as much as they can but in a game, no way.  There are advantages to the wood in that, imo, they can make the swing mechanics better.  There are advantages to these other bats and those advantages outweigh the wood bat in HS games.   This is an interesting thread!

Finally, any negative conversations with you son about how you dislike this coach will not help your son.  In fact, they just might be a reason why he isn't getting that shot at V that you want.  

^^^^^^^^

+1 for CabbageDad, PitchingFan, CoachB25 and Buckeye2015.  HS stats are meaningless to everybody except parents, grandparents and very close relatives.

The reason I think the PG stats were brought up by the coach is I overheard a player bragging on another player for throwing 88 while catching. Someone or all didn't believe it so the player that was telling the stats said that they could look it up on PG. Now I also know that at the end of the season the HS coach asked me where my son was going to play for the summer and my answer was with 2 of his other players on team X. He said good that he would follow them all and planned on even coming to some games at PG. The coach also has a travel team that plays at PG. I don't think I mislead anyone on the wood bat issue but If I did sorry. The HS coach does not want them to ever swing a wood bat at his practices and that goes for tee work on up. I agree about a wood bat not being used during HS games. My sons throwing motion lol! No I did not thank the coach for that info. I knew that my son threw a little weird and we had tried to address it before. My son was getting the job done, on a line and on target the way he had been coached. I see no benefit in throwing a rainbow over the cut off guys and 3rd base, sorry I don't. I paid someone to help my son with his throwing in the off season. The HS coach spent all last season with him and did not mention it until the end of the year meeting as a reason he was not going to play at the next level. The coach was of little to no help. Joking but not really I looked up the coaches senior PG measurable stats and I have to say they are not great numbers so maybe they really don't matter to him, but for a different reason.   

Parents are not allowed to talk about baseball with the coach only the players can. The players, parents, and coaches all sign a copy of the rule book that the coaches come up with. I follow the rules that are stated in the handbook.